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Lenair
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Joined: 07/31/17
Posts: 30
Loc: Virginia, USA
Upcoming Charters
      #1743570 - 09/07/17 02:56 PM (40.129.72.106)

For those of us with upcoming charters it might be a good idea to share what we are hearing from the charter operators.

We are scheduled to charter a 46' Cat from FootLoose from 10/13-10/21. FootLoose says they are actively assessing the damage from St. Maarten and the BVI and will reach out to us.

I will post more when I know more.

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gracet03
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Lenair]
      #1743575 - 09/07/17 03:05 PM (208.23.248.130)

Only the Moorings, Footloose and Sunsail websites have just added a statement
"We have reports of extensive damage to the fleet,, will assess the situation over the next 24 hrs"

Which is a way of saying , they need a day to see what they got.

Edited by gracet03 (09/07/17 03:10 PM)


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maytrix
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: gracet03]
      #1743578 - 09/07/17 03:11 PM (76.19.126.165)

I think it will be a few days to a week or so before they really have any idea as to what will be possible.

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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: gracet03]
      #1743582 - 09/07/17 03:22 PM (97.91.61.135)

BVI Yacht Charters' site says: "Due to poor weather, the office on Tortola is closed temporarily." Now that's a euphemistic spin if ever there was one!

Edit: Ten minutes after the post above, the BVIYC site banner message changed to: "Due to recent events in the BVI, we are not able to respond quickly to enquiries. Please monitor the website and Facebook page for further updates."

Edited by aarpskier (09/07/17 03:52 PM)


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GTcapt
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Joined: 11/27/00
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Lenair]
      #1743585 - 09/07/17 03:28 PM (108.77.24.25)

We have a charter with Moorings in late June which I would like to cancel and get a refund of my deposit. Years ago, I was in the BVI after a major hurricane and after eight months, it was still beat up. We all feel for the people who live there and sorry about all the destruction and losses BUT, vacation time is short and costly and I don't think I want to spend time it what will be a third world country. OK, let the haters begin!.

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Lenair
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Joined: 07/31/17
Posts: 30
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GTcapt]
      #1743595 - 09/07/17 03:44 PM (40.129.72.106)

Quote:

GTcapt said:
We have a charter with Moorings in late June which I would like to cancel and get a refund of my deposit. Years ago, I was in the BVI after a major hurricane and after eight months, it was still beat up. We all feel for the people who live there and sorry about all the destruction and losses BUT, vacation time is short and costly and I don't think I want to spend time it what will be a third world country. OK, let the haters begin!.




Different strokes for different folks, GTcapt. If our charter happens I am contemplating bringing my dive gear and lift bags so I can pull trash/debris off the reefs. I want the reefs to still be there for my kids.

Of course I have also used my vacation time to rebuild villages in South America after my favorite backpacking locations were flooded. That's just my thing.

No hating here, we just have different priorities.

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NWA4Sail
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Joined: 05/26/17
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Loc: Fayetteville, Ar
Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GTcapt]
      #1743597 - 09/07/17 03:45 PM (204.110.197.10)

We have a charter scheduled thru Sunsail Oct. 20th-27th. BEYC also has their Pro Am that same week. The finals for the season ending NOOD Regatta was scheduled as well.

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Lenair
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Joined: 07/31/17
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NWA4Sail]
      #1743599 - 09/07/17 03:52 PM (40.129.72.106)

Quote:

NWA4Sail said:
We have a charter scheduled thru Sunsail Oct. 20th-27th. BEYC also has their Pro Am that same week. The finals for the season ending NOOD Regatta was scheduled as well.




The Moorings Interline Regatta is/was scheduled for October too.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GTcapt]
      #1743600 - 09/07/17 03:52 PM (199.168.151.165)

I have doubts whether there will be any cash for deposit refunds. Some may be able to move the location or the dates. When the water came in the little capital those shell companies had went out with the salt water and the tide. I would expect many to close and reopen as a new legal entity when the time comes.

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Will_L
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Lenair]
      #1743601 - 09/07/17 03:55 PM (67.45.113.159)

There will likely be a huge shortage of boats to charter for a good while. There is likely to be quite a delay in insurance settlements and a lot of arguments/litigation on numbers.

Those that get a check for the hull value I'm guessing in many if not most cases will be reticent to start again with this experience fresh in their mind. Other people currently thinking about pulling the trigger and putting a boat in charter will likely have some reasons to think it over.

If god forbid Jose hits this weekend there likely won't be any boats left.

Insurance rates will be going way up. The infrastructure for charter operations will take quite a while to get up and running.


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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NWA4Sail]
      #1743604 - 09/07/17 03:58 PM (100.16.151.129)

TMM seem to have blacked out their schedule through end of September as a start. It's going to take some time, but they will all pull together and do everything they can to get the tourism industry back up and running. I expect the recovery to be as remarkable as the hideous damage we're witnessing. That said, it will never "be the same", and will take a decade before everything feels "normal" again.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1743610 - 09/07/17 04:13 PM (199.168.151.165)

Quote:

Will_L said:
There will likely be a huge shortage of boats to charter for a good while. There is likely to be quite a delay in insurance settlements and a lot of arguments/litigation on numbers.

Those that get a check for the hull value I'm guessing in many if not most cases will be reticent to start again with this experience fresh in their mind. Other people currently thinking about pulling the trigger and putting a boat in charter will likely have some reasons to think it over.

If god forbid Jose hits this weekend there likely won't be any boats left.

Insurance rates will be going way up. The infrastructure for charter operations will take quite a while to get up and running.




The time from order to manufacturing until a boat is delivered and ready on the dock for guests is a very long time.

Just like Little Dix was in the process of doing look for the best players to shut down and use this opportunity to refresh and reopen as a very different place. The half open the approach coupled with social media destroys brands.


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stevelon
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Joined: 03/17/04
Posts: 233
Loc: St Louis
Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1743712 - 09/07/17 07:13 PM (24.217.140.98)

That was my thought also. Where and what are they going to do with hundreds of damaged and sunken boats. No place to put new ones as there are no docks and support facilities. The lead time on new boats i would imagine is a fairly long time delivery etc. Many have bases in other islands but many of those got hit also. Now a possible new hurricane. This is by far the worst case scenario I could imagine. Right now the locals have no food, water. living essentials. I intend to donate money but the charities so far seem to be island specific. Thankfully i was there in July. Have no idea when i will get back. Just feel so bad that something like this can happen to good people. What a tragedy.

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GeorgeC1
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: stevelon]
      #1743721 - 09/07/17 07:28 PM (108.213.0.118)

This is what I would do if I were running the Moorings. Their docks actually appear in pretty good shape. I would quickly triage the boats and determine what can be repaired and what is totaled. I would then target the boats they can have ready by 15 Dec and push those repairs. I would canvass the owners of the boats in the Euro bases and offer a financial inducement to move those boats to the BVI for this winter's high season and send them back for the summer in the med. probably charter a float on float off ship to move them. I would get the Leopard factory cranking and look for a second source of cats. Either Lagoon or FP. This last part may be wishful thinking on my part but I would work with the current owners as much as possible to encourage them to roll the insurance settlements into another boat.
G

Edited by GeorgeC1 (09/07/17 07:30 PM)


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CGB
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1743734 - 09/07/17 07:55 PM (70.49.187.173)

Memories of the book "Don't stop the Carnival"
Can anyone name some of the insurance companies involved in covering these boats ?


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Will_L
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CGB]
      #1743738 - 09/07/17 08:00 PM (67.45.113.159)

Mine is Lloyds of London..well known but recall they had major financial difficulties years ago. This will be the biggest marine hit ever by a storm by a huge factor.

Didn't go through but TMM is closed to charters every September now. They changed nothing so far.


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EllenS
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1743750 - 09/07/17 08:20 PM (174.108.54.67)

Mine is Falveys.

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GeorgeC1
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1743752 - 09/07/17 08:23 PM (108.213.0.118)

My boat is also underwritten by Lloyds. I believe that is the standard Moorings insurance.

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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1743758 - 09/07/17 08:50 PM (100.16.151.129)

Quote:

Will_L said:

Didn't go through but TMM is closed to charters every September now. They changed nothing so far.




Thanks, I was not aware of that. Guess it's been too long since I've planned a trip.


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ggffrr11
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Lenair]
      #1743767 - 09/07/17 09:24 PM (72.47.94.10)

Just a question: Where does a, i.e. Moorings individual charter boat owner in 2nd or 3rd year of Moorings agreement stand financially (via insurance) if his boat just got totaled? Don't most of those plans involve an initial downpayment, etc? Is the owner fortunate for just a total wash?

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kneafseym
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1743777 - 09/07/17 09:48 PM (99.12.86.214)

Will, Lloyds of London is not an insurance company but a really cool brokerage firm where many companies take a piece of the action, which is the best as it spreads the risk. But some of the underlying names can go belly up if the loss is too great. One company can't take on all this risk.

As a kid, my father was a Lloyds Name and I had the most amazing tour of Lloyds that you can image and is not open to the public.

--------------------
Mike


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GlennAModerator
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1743782 - 09/07/17 10:04 PM (70.177.22.163)

The Moorings is now owned by KKR and Henry Kraviz has plenty of cash to move that mountain.

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GeorgeC1
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: ggffrr11]
      #1743785 - 09/07/17 10:05 PM (108.213.0.118)

The owner would be paid the appraised value of the boat. Where that leaves him financially would depend on how he funded the purchase.

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Lenair
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GlennA]
      #1743793 - 09/07/17 10:52 PM (40.129.72.106)

Quote:

GlennA said:
The Moorings is now owned by KKR and Henry Kraviz has plenty of cash to move that mountain.




Good point about KKR being able to swing the cash to rebuild the Moorings brand.

KKR owns Travelopia. Travelopia brands include Moorings and Sunsail. Leopard Catamarans is also a Travelopia brand.

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Pvgreg
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Lenair]
      #1743823 - 09/08/17 02:45 AM (98.184.197.249)

It's events like these that make it clear that insurance is not what we think it is when we purchase it. The insurance business is one of the most profitable around. When claims are numerous and large the insurance companies often file bankruptcy to protect their profits. The loser is always the buyer. Typically what we insure for are things that usually incur numerous claims (earthquakes, hurricanes, floods) and threaten the ability of the insurer to pay all claims. IMHO if you can't financially afford a total loss on a purchase you should not purchase it.

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Will_L
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: kneafseym]
      #1743838 - 09/08/17 06:53 AM (67.45.113.159)

Quote:

kneafseym said:
Will, Lloyds of London is not an insurance company but a really cool brokerage firm where many companies take a piece of the action, which is the best as it spreads the risk. But some of the underlying names can go belly up if the loss is too great. One company can't take on all this risk.

As a kid, my father was a Lloyds Name and I had the most amazing tour of Lloyds that you can image and is not open to the public.




Thanks Mike, that makes me feel better. I guess what I was recalling was several of their members went under in the asbestos disaster many years ago. I cannot imagine the claims from this long track storm. You could hardly pick a worse course for a marine insurer with the coup de gras being now Florida.


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ggffrr11
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Pvgreg]
      #1743843 - 09/08/17 07:21 AM (166.137.126.45)

Ouch!

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NCSailor
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: kneafseym]
      #1743850 - 09/08/17 07:50 AM (104.6.161.144)

Quote:

kneafseym said:
Will, Lloyds of London is not an insurance company but a really cool brokerage firm where many companies take a piece of the action, which is the best as it spreads the risk. But some of the underlying names can go belly up if the loss is too great. One company can't take on all this risk.

As a kid, my father was a Lloyds Name and I had the most amazing tour of Lloyds that you can image and is not open to the public.




Lloyds is also what is known as a surplus lines insurer. They are not subject to regulation in the US so they don't have to disclose finances or adhere to capitalization requirements. Lloyds syndicates are very slow to pay. There can be a dozen members participating in a risk that have to pony up to pay a loss. One slow pay member can delay payment to an insured for months. Payments on total loss boats insured for a specific hull value will not be quick given the magnitude of losses from this storm.


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CDavis2
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NCSailor]
      #1743958 - 09/08/17 12:16 PM (24.30.77.119)

Just saw some aerial shots from Caribbean Buzz of Paraquita Bay and quite a few of the boats appear to be floating. Maybe the damage isn't as bad in that area as it first appeared.

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sail2wind
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CDavis2]
      #1743960 - 09/08/17 12:23 PM (184.166.21.62)

yes it is as bad as it appears

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bvilovercgb
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sail2wind]
      #1743972 - 09/08/17 12:52 PM (70.54.1.189)

It looks worse in person I heard from a friend.

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gracet03
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1743982 - 09/08/17 01:07 PM (208.23.248.130)

Moorings.com has a new "Travel Advisory" page and a additional statement for today.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1744011 - 09/08/17 02:16 PM (199.168.151.165)

Quote:

bvilovercgb said:
It looks worse in person I heard from a friend.




Past experience tells me that starting with the defoliation all the way to the mud on the ground does not translate into digital images. There are just too many details for photography to capture. It will soon get very hot after the storms all clear and you will then start to see depression in the eyes and faces that only a few photographers can capture. Even then the images will not show the group impact.

So yes, real destruction is worse in 360 degrees in person.

With all its flaws our FEMA would disappear the debris. Not sure how the BVI will or should handle the first step after water and food which is wall to wall cleanup. Do you save or disappear the broken materials? Just like the boats, do you just crush them or try in vain to same them at great expense?


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Kirk
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1744021 - 09/08/17 02:32 PM (68.167.192.130)

Quote:

GeorgeC1 said:
This is what I would do if I were running the Moorings. Their docks actually appear in pretty good shape. I would quickly triage the boats and determine what can be repaired and what is totaled. I would then target the boats they can have ready by 15 Dec and push those repairs. I would canvass the owners of the boats in the Euro bases and offer a financial inducement to move those boats to the BVI for this winter's high season and send them back for the summer in the med. probably charter a float on float off ship to move them. I would get the Leopard factory cranking and look for a second source of cats. Either Lagoon or FP. This last part may be wishful thinking on my part but I would work with the current owners as much as possible to encourage them to roll the insurance settlements into another boat.
G




Even if they have the boats, will it be a desirable cruising area? I'm not trying to be crass or whatever, but there's so much rebuilding to be done-homes, schools, stores, roads, the power grid/lines etc...will there be places for people on a charter to go? Have you seen the BEYC for example? I'm just wondering if that will put unnecessary pressure to redo areas that aren't that important to people who say don't have a home.

--------------------
Kirk in Maryland


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redwritr
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Kirk]
      #1744025 - 09/08/17 02:41 PM (192.171.44.177)

we've got a charter coming up as well and are concerned about safety, whats in the water after the storms have gone, massive concrete slabs, wiring, not to mention oil, etc. that stuff won't be on any charts

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maytrix
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1744040 - 09/08/17 03:17 PM (198.55.234.168)

Quote:

bvilovercgb said:
It looks worse in person I heard from a friend.




We had a house destroyed in Irene in VT. We were able to get in to town to see it about a week after the storm. We had seen a LOT of pictures and it still was surreal when we arrived to see everything in person. Even seeing these pictures, having seen similar stuff in person, I know being there and seeing it in person is a whole different story.

--------------------
Matt


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ggregory
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: redwritr]
      #1744041 - 09/08/17 03:19 PM (172.101.206.159)

Ok let's say you have a repaired boat that's taped up. Where do you sail too? Not to many places to go too. Rebuilding will take years. Remember it's Island Time. I'm taking 8 on a cat in November, but that cat is upside down right now. $15 k ??? So now what?

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Christo
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: gracet03]
      #1744044 - 09/08/17 03:27 PM (86.176.174.156)

gracet03 can you post the link to this Moorings advisory?

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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Christo]
      #1744060 - 09/08/17 03:45 PM (97.91.61.135)

Quote:

Christo said:
Can you post the link to this Moorings advisory?




Moorings Travel Advisory


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maytrix
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: ggregory]
      #1744068 - 09/08/17 04:00 PM (198.55.234.168)

Quote:

ggregory said:
Ok let's say you have a repaired boat that's taped up. Where do you sail too? Not to many places to go too. Rebuilding will take years. Remember it's Island Time. I'm taking 8 on a cat in November, but that cat is upside down right now. $15 k ??? So now what?




Hard to say when it might be possible to charter, but what is really needed in order to enjoy time there? As long as you can get gas, water and food, the majority of the scenery is there - warm water, snorkeling, beaches..etc.

As long as it is not advised to stay away, we will be making our trip in December. Only plus we have to others right now is that we know our boat is ok since it is currently in Newport and making the trip back down (assuming there's a place to put it) in November.

--------------------
Matt


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: aarpskier]
      #1744069 - 09/08/17 04:01 PM (107.19.188.171)

I think we will all be surprised at what is accomplished by 15 Dec. Even today I see signs of hope with the sun shining.
G


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sail2wind
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: redwritr]
      #1744073 - 09/08/17 04:06 PM (75.171.156.42)

Quote:

redwritr said:
we've got a charter coming up as well and are concerned about safety, whats in the water after the storms have gone, massive concrete slabs, wiring, not to mention oil, etc. that stuff won't be on any charts





How upcoming? I think it would be a stretch to think anything will be habitable by Christmas


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Christo
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: maytrix]
      #1744083 - 09/08/17 04:22 PM (86.176.174.156)

Maytrix - following on from your post, does anyone have any thoughts/ideas/past-experience/blind-speculation about how the reefs, coral and snorkeling will have been affected? I can recall past times many years back when storms had pretty much ruined the snorkeling out on Horseshoe reef.

I totally agree...some of the best things about the BVI are the natural elements + rum...


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: redwritr]
      #1744096 - 09/08/17 04:50 PM (199.168.151.165)

Quote:

redwritr said:
we've got a charter coming up as well and are concerned about safety, whats in the water after the storms have gone, massive concrete slabs, wiring, not to mention oil, etc. that stuff won't be on any charts




Nature will take care of the oil in the water in very short order. It will be made a noisy issue but biology, chemistry, and physics will take care of the fluids that end up in the water. Try to not get distracted by that. Glass, nails, and other solid stuff in the beach will be a long term concern.


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Christo]
      #1744105 - 09/08/17 05:07 PM (199.168.151.165)

Quote:

Christo said:
Maytrix - following on from your post, does anyone have any thoughts/ideas/past-experience/blind-speculation about how the reefs, coral and snorkeling will have been affected? I can recall past times many years back when storms had pretty much ruined the snorkeling out on Horseshoe reef.

I totally agree...some of the best things about the BVI are the natural elements + rum...




Sure I will give you some blind speculation from my cracked and cloudy crystal ball...

Sediment runoff has long been a problem for coral reefs worldwide. Construction coupled with herds of charter boats dumping waste concentrated in anchorages 24/7 has long been a problem in the BVI.

The destruction, waves, and rain dumped massive amounts of sediment in the waters. You can see it in the pictures.

The cleanup and new construction will dump more for years.

The real risk now. The area is completely defoliated. Erosion will be a major issue with any rain. The next storm or the rains of November. Runoff and sediment will changed things on the ground and below the surface.

All that dribble aside... Long ago all these islands were clear cut and completely deforested for lumber and even the making of simple charcoal.

Nature has a way of curing itself. The new nutrients will be a plus for some things. The low vis will be a plus for some things. Sure some hard corals will die to be replaced by soft corals. These islands have lived through this before, nature will heal itself once man slows down and allows the healing to begin.

Mandatory holding tanks with die testing would be a good first step in the mooring fields. That is much less of an issue if the boats are designed and built for it.

Horseshoe reef should be the first to recover. The cleanup, construction, and rain will dump beaucoup silt into the waters around it. There will be little practical way to recover without that damage.


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DaveF
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1744113 - 09/08/17 05:21 PM (72.238.202.199)

I have never chartered in winter...it is just not my time for a lot of reasons. That said if I had plans for end of year / early next year there is no doubt in my mind I would do everything I could to keep my trip and it would be without a doubt one of the best visits ever.

BVI is the most wonderful place in the world. Everyone on this site can attest to that. The beach bars and all that we talk about for our itineraries are really just a small part of the visit. There is so much more, and all this does not take away what BVI is to me.

I know without a doubt if I could go and did go this winter the people the places may not be back to 100% but the friendship and open arms will be more than 200%.

Go if you can

--------------------
Dave


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harleybuffett
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: DaveF]
      #1744123 - 09/08/17 05:46 PM (216.187.131.101)

I totally agree with DaveF...we have a charter for November 2018. My husband is a little reluctant even 14 months out. While things will probably never be the same, we love the people and we'll just come up with new experiences rather than what we've always done.

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majoma
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: harleybuffett]
      #1744145 - 09/08/17 07:37 PM (24.5.99.249)

A few years back Cabo San Lucas was totally destroyed by an hurricane. I went there three months later and everything was looking good again. Everyone worked 24/7 to restore the town. It was amazing.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: majoma]
      #1744171 - 09/08/17 09:12 PM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

majoma said:
A few years back Cabo San Lucas was totally destroyed by an hurricane. I went there three months later and everything was looking good again. Everyone worked 24/7 to restore the town. It was amazing.




Competition! Cabo had West Coasts deep pockets, some global pockets and direct jet access. Reality this month. Destruction, opportunity, and real need from Barbuda to Tenn all the way to greater HOUSTON that is 20 million people in the US minimuim. Maybe much more. Dade County alone has 40,000 boats alone.

The BVI will either step up with open arms to investors and/or reinvestors or not.

The little guys must decided to sit or roll forward their booked rooms and boats. Those that get an insurance check must bet that plus more cash. Outside new funds must decide to bet and bet large. Otherwise their willl be a failed local economy and civil unrest like the incredible MARTINIQUE a few years ago. I will get flamed for pimping the airport. No easy access no investment and reinvestment and little future. You must feed the beast and the next generations.

Call me all the names you want I have anchored boats everywhere except Venezuela between Maine and The Panama Canal. The reasons iislands fail is very consistent.


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NoelHall
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1744176 - 09/08/17 09:24 PM (74.141.130.113)

I plan to honor my December charter if Voyage can provide a boat. We booked 'MERLYN' although we have no idea if she still floats. I figure the islands need the tourist dollars now more than ever. That said, I want to be comfortable with our safety, both for ourselves and our property, in the case people become desperate to meet their basic needs.

--------------------
Noel Hall
"It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time."

www.noelhall.com


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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1744232 - 09/08/17 11:38 PM (100.16.151.129)

100%. I am in the camp advocating that the hardy sailor who loves nature and peace, and is ok to grill on the boat and mix their own drinks if not every beach bar is back open quite yet, will find an enjoyable experience and be heartened by the resilience of both Mother Nature and BV islanders should they be fortunate enough to find a boat available and make a visit in the coming months. Once the immediate needs of residents have begun to be addressed of course.

Also, hear hear, to the requirement for holding tank standards. Grandfather older boats if you must, but take this opportunity to do what should have been done long ago.


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Lenair
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: onlymedication]
      #1744236 - 09/08/17 11:56 PM (40.129.72.106)

I concur.

--------------------
[url=https://www.TickerFactory.com/]

[/url]


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Deepcut
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NoelHall]
      #1744260 - 09/09/17 07:26 AM (162.251.30.12)

Quote:

NoelHall said:
I plan to honor my December charter if Voyage can provide a boat. We booked 'MERLYN' although we have no idea if she still floats. I figure the islands need the tourist dollars now more than ever. That said, I want to be comfortable with our safety, both for ourselves and our property, in the case people become desperate to meet their basic needs.




I agree with the above. In regards to beach bars, as soon as the boats return, there will be beach bars. As a kid, I had a lemonade stand, that we can be open for business in 15 to 20 minutes. All those who have tailgated at football games know how quick you can set up a Entertainement bar.
A key ingredient to recovery will be the economy, and although it will take some time, the boating industry is their economy.

Certainly, the trip will be different, but you will witness the recovery. You also have the satisfaction of knowing that your "vacation" helps the people of the BVI when they MOST need it .

--------------------
Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)


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bvilovercgb
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Deepcut]
      #1744281 - 09/09/17 08:46 AM (70.54.1.189)

Bringing back the sailors will be key, never mind those cruise ships, bring back the sailors!

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lisajctx
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1744309 - 09/09/17 09:55 AM (104.179.156.134)

Just my personal opinion...Even though I know the Islanders rely on tourist dollars brought in by those who charter and cruise, I would have a lot of difficulty sitting on deck, enjoying the sunshine and a painkiller knowing that there are people who have lost so much. Homes, jobs, infrastructure, and basic necessities that are just needed to survive. It is going to take years.

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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: lisajctx]
      #1744316 - 09/09/17 10:09 AM (100.16.151.129)

Quote:

lisajctx said:
Just my personal opinion...Even though I know the Islanders rely on tourist dollars brought in by those who charter and cruise, I would have a lot of difficulty sitting on deck, enjoying the sunshine and a painkiller knowing that there are people who have lost so much. Homes, jobs, infrastructure, and basic necessities that are just needed to survive. It is going to take years.




Then tip generously.


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Thistle
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1744318 - 09/09/17 10:14 AM (184.3.194.95)

If we can find a boat and prices aren't too prohibitive, we'll be down again in March to support the local economy. My 13-year-old daughter just returned 3 weeks ago from an amazing three weeks on "Sailing Curls", a Moorings Beneteau 54' with http://www.actionquest.com. She can't bear seeing the pics. If ActionQuest is able to find the boats and run a program next summer, my daughter will definitely be returning to support AQ and the BVIs.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: onlymedication]
      #1744325 - 09/09/17 10:30 AM (71.224.66.174)

To the gratuity and payment for service ,long before this blow, the standing and customary maritime protocol is discrete cash for the services rendered. That discrete cash is never delivered at the same time or place on the table or grocery register when when your crew leaves with the purchases.

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JasonHelmbrecht
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1744332 - 09/09/17 10:48 AM (70.63.58.122)

Dear GTcapt - good riddance. When the territory is rebuilt and open for business, please don't come back. Stay in Disneyland or on your cruise ship.

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sail2wind
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: JasonHelmbrecht]
      #1744347 - 09/09/17 11:35 AM (184.166.21.62)

didn't know there was a maritime protocol for tipping, learn something new everyday

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nicky
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: redwritr]
      #1744403 - 09/09/17 01:51 PM (94.196.81.63)

Sadly, it is probably not a good idea to plan to go on a charter to the BVI right now. We will be cancelling; apart from the obvious question of how we could 'enjoy' a charter amongst all the loss and sadness, there are insurmountable practical problems. Everyone on the Islands needs access to power, water and food, and they must have priority on all resources.
Just delay and plan to go when they are ready for visitors again and this will help the islands to get back on their feet.


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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: nicky]
      #1744410 - 09/09/17 02:07 PM (100.16.151.129)

Quote:

nicky said:
Sadly, it is probably not a good idea to plan to go on a charter to the BVI right now. We will be cancelling; apart from the obvious question of how we could 'enjoy' a charter amongst all the loss and sadness, there are insurmountable practical problems. Everyone on the Islands needs access to power, water and food, and they must have priority on all resources.
Just delay and plan to go when they are ready for visitors again and this will help the islands to get back on their feet.




I could not disagree more. When they say they are open and ready for business, it will mean they are open and ready for business. If you decide not to go because you don't think it will be the best way to spend your holiday $$ or time, that is certainly your prerogative, but don't lie to yourself or anyone else by suggesting that your choice is humanitarian in nature.


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Will_L
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: onlymedication]
      #1744420 - 09/09/17 02:24 PM (65.121.253.98)

With the total devastation it will take likely some months to get infructure ready for tourism. But the first thing to be ready will be the charter industry ..and cruise ship stops. Beaches heal faster than houses.

A great idea would be "a second checked bag".. load it with toiletries dental stuff and school supplies. The ferry and airport C&I could have designated bins for "a second bag". The cost is minimal for the traveler and if word gets around would be a significant resource.


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sbrownell
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1744442 - 09/09/17 03:14 PM (99.184.248.112)

So if you had a charter book in 45 days, would you still go? Our end of stay hotel is saying to cancel if your trip is in the next 60 days, Not even sure if our boat made it thru the storm. So if you had a chance to recoup your deposit, would you? I cannot fathom that the focus will be on tourism within the next 2 months.

--------------------
Steph


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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sbrownell]
      #1744450 - 09/09/17 03:29 PM (100.16.151.129)

It's a personal decision, and I don't fault anyone for making the best choice for them.

Yes, if the resources (boats available and BVI Tourism and others say we are ready for visitors) were available to go, I would. I would expect it to be different, and in some ways that may be an "imposition", while in others it may be more enjoyable. As mentioned, perhaps some items could be brought to help and it might be enjoyable to spend an afternoon somewhere picking up debris on a beach or something like that.

I don't fault anyone who feels they need to make other plans for near term travel. Just don't say you're doing BVI a solid by doing so.


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bvilovercgb
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sbrownell]
      #1744451 - 09/09/17 03:30 PM (70.54.1.189)

I agree with your thoughts. I am trying to think how much materials for just basic everyday living will make it to the islands in the next 60 days. Think, just the little village of Cane Garden, Workmen, Electricians, Plumbing, Structural Engineers to evaluate some buildings. That high rise for one will require inspections...Now, where do these people live while all this is being done, and we want to do the tourist thing? It boggles the mind.

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Will_L
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sbrownell]
      #1744454 - 09/09/17 03:46 PM (65.121.253.98)

Probably would wait a week or two. Will hear from charter company, know how things are going. Besides that will be first time you will likely get through to charter company and have a feel if boat will be available. A little too soon to know what will be like. My guess today is that it is not doable. But there is no definitive info .

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sbrownell]
      #1744457 - 09/09/17 03:53 PM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

sbrownell said:
So if you had a charter book in 45 days, would you still go? Our end of stay hotel is saying to cancel if your trip is in the next 60 days, Not even sure if our boat made it thru the storm. So if you had a chance to recoup your deposit, would you? I cannot fathom that the focus will be on tourism within the next 2 months.





Historically the carribean is closed during September and October all the way until at least Thanksgiving. The wettest month is November. Absolutely if you can get your money back? Or rebook between February and mid May do that.

Until the foliage comes back any rain will make a nasty mess of the place.

Now if your heath and passion will allow? Show up with a screw gun and deck screws and spend your daylight hours making roofs happen.


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sail2wind
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1744477 - 09/09/17 05:17 PM (75.171.156.42)

"Historically the carribean is closed during September and October all the way until at least Thanksgiving"


WTF, where did you get that?


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crazycrab955
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sail2wind]
      #1744935 - 09/11/17 08:17 AM (101.100.163.153)

We are booked (and fully paid) for a charter the second week of November with The Moorings. I have read their Ts and Cs backward and forward, and I am wondering what they will do if in fact BVI is a no-go. There is at least one clause that seems to claim that Force Majeure allows them to cancel the charter *without* refund.

We love the BVI (we honeymooned there via bareboat several years ago) and are devastated for the people and environment there. We would be happy to go in November as a show of support, but I have to be practical given what is going on there, and figure out what our Plan B (or C) should be.

I am guessing/hoping The Moorings will start contacting folks once they get their offices in Florida back up and running this week. But I am fearful we are going to be made to simply lose our payments without refund, or without flexible rescheduling or relocation to another location.

Anyone else have experience in the past with Moorings cancelling the charter and how it was handled/what options they were given?


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sonofasailor
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: crazycrab955]
      #1744936 - 09/11/17 08:26 AM (8.20.69.6)

Did you purchase trip insurance that would cover loss due to a hurricane or other natural disasters? If not you may be out of luck although I could be wrong. I have chartered with Voyage several times during Hurricane season (Oct/Nov) and they always made it very clear that trip insurance was recommended, especially during hurricane season.

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Donald
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: sonofasailor]
      #1744942 - 09/11/17 09:32 AM (64.26.141.130)

I am booked for a third party flotilla charter using Moorings' boats in February. I think it will be a couple weeks before we know if it will still be a go depending on what is left of their fleet and what can be salvaged and what needs to be replaced. And all charter companies are scrambling to get those questions answered for the upcoming season.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that the sailing in the BVIs is awesome and no hurricane is going to change that. It would be a shame if some of the planned regular stops for sailors (Willy T's, Bitter End, Soggy Dollar, etc) are not up and running by then but as sailors, if we can get a boat and get it provisioned, we are helping out in an enormous way. You are using services from the ferries, taxis plus the local businesses (charter companies, grocery stores). Make the effort to visit whatever restaurants are reopened by then and you are making a difference for a local economy that needs the tourists to come back.

Land vacationers might have a tougher time of it since it appears that many of the buildings will need to be rebuilt from the foundation up.

So if I can get on a provisioned boat, I will be there.....


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Deepcut
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Donald]
      #1744957 - 09/11/17 10:31 AM (96.32.194.30)

Quote:

Donald said:we are helping out in an enormous way. You are using services from the ferries, taxis plus the local businesses (charter companies, grocery stores). Make the effort to visit whatever restaurants are reopened by then and you are making a difference for a local economy that needs the tourists to come back.

So if I can get on a provisioned boat, I will be there.....




Agree Donald.

When Katrina hit New Orleans, certainly did not need visitors/ conventions during the "Emergency", but once emergency phase over and recovery phase well underway, IF these "visitors" had not returned, then New Orleans would now be a ghost town.

At this point, too early to know when it will be appropriate for visiting sailors to return (We still have about 7 weeks left in "hurricane season").

--------------------
Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)


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stevelon
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Deepcut]
      #1744962 - 09/11/17 10:44 AM (24.217.140.98)

Here is one response from Dream Yacht charter
https://www.dreamyachtcharter.com/hurricane-irma-customer-update/


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bvilovercgb
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Donald]
      #1744974 - 09/11/17 11:44 AM (70.54.1.189)

I love your enthusiasm, however, I suspect that there will be only limited power sources by Feb 2018...And if The Moorings yacht harbour itself has sustained damage, well, I would send money for recovery effort rather than plan a trip .

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Donald
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1744976 - 09/11/17 11:48 AM (64.26.141.130)

I agree I may be overly enthusiastic (or wishful) -- ultimately it will not be my call on whether the trip goes ahead but Moorings & the organizers (which is a US based sailing school).

And I am donating to relief efforts, too!

And if it is not heresy around here, I'm also reaching out to charters/flotillas further south in areas not impacted by Irma. It helps that i'm a solo traveller/sailor looking to join up on my own with a flotilla. This came up in a thread a month ago but I've gotten on a boat with strangers a couple times and it has always worked out fine.

d


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: stevelon]
      #1744979 - 09/11/17 11:50 AM (71.224.66.174)

Remember the better operators replace +/- 20 percent of their fleets each year. Many of the BVI refresh hills are nearing completion in France and Africa waiting for the safer window near November to make the trip across to the Carriibean and BVI. If there are working docks near Tortola maybe some head there or even St. Thomas? If he BVI industry will not be up and running or on demand for the winter season? Look for those large investments bulls to be routed to Grenada, St. Lucia, MARTINIQUE, or maybe bases and docks many of us have not heard of. If St. Vincent gets the new airport functioning a whole host of options open up. In wild stretch JetBlue and others are flying to St. Croix direct at low costs. Maybe a base will finally pop up there or even a massive base on PR.

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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745010 - 09/11/17 01:42 PM (74.181.102.126)

The charter companies, at least the larger ones, should have insurance that would cover lost charter fees dues to a catastrophe such as Irma. I expect charterers will be able to recoup their prepaid charter fees for the immediate future. Once the charter companies are able to provide guests a working boat, there will be no refunds. Charter contracts make no guarantees to provide access to your favorite bars or beaches. If a boat is available for a charter, it is unlikely even a guest's travel insurance will cover the cancellation.

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Sunset_Sammy
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745038 - 09/11/17 02:49 PM (165.225.36.84)

Quote:

StormJib said:
Remember the better operators replace +/- 20 percent of their fleets each year. Many of the BVI refresh hills are nearing completion in France and Africa waiting for the safer window near November to make the trip across to the Carriibean and BVI. If there are working docks near Tortola maybe some head there or even St. Thomas? If he BVI industry will not be up and running or on demand for the winter season? Look for those large investments bulls to be routed to Grenada, St. Lucia, MARTINIQUE, or maybe bases and docks many of us have not heard of. If St. Vincent gets the new airport functioning a whole host of options open up. In wild stretch JetBlue and others are flying to St. Croix direct at low costs. Maybe a base will finally pop up there or even a massive base on PR.



They aren't waiting for November to make the deliveries, 5 boats left France 3 weeks ago headed for the Virgin Islands, the delivery company had a post looking for crew to join in the Gran Canaria, Friday ASAP, it stated "great opportunity to build miles".
Plans are already underway to send boats from Florida with parts and supplies and bring the damaged boats to Florida for repairs.
I have to take my hat off to the delivery crews, they head out into the unknown, weather wise, just doing what's required to deliver the boat, and usually crew (not skipper or mate) isn't even paid.
The new airport on St. Vincent has been operational for many months now, Air Canada flies direct from Toronto.

--------------------
Life is short, live it!


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Sunset_Sammy]
      #1745054 - 09/11/17 03:57 PM (199.168.151.165)

Quote:

Sunset_Sammy said:
Quote:

StormJib said:
Remember the better operators replace +/- 20 percent of their fleets each year. Many of the BVI refresh hills are nearing completion in France and Africa waiting for the safer window near November to make the trip across to the Carriibean and BVI. If there are working docks near Tortola maybe some head there or even St. Thomas? If he BVI industry will not be up and running or on demand for the winter season? Look for those large investments bulls to be routed to Grenada, St. Lucia, MARTINIQUE, or maybe bases and docks many of us have not heard of. If St. Vincent gets the new airport functioning a whole host of options open up. In wild stretch JetBlue and others are flying to St. Croix direct at low costs. Maybe a base will finally pop up there or even a massive base on PR.



They aren't waiting for November to make the deliveries, 5 boats left France 3 weeks ago headed for the Virgin Islands, the delivery company had a post looking for crew to join in the Gran Canaria, Friday ASAP, it stated "great opportunity to build miles".
Plans are already underway to send boats from Florida with parts and supplies and bring the damaged boats to Florida for repairs.
I have to take my hat off to the delivery crews, they head out into the unknown, weather wise, just doing what's required to deliver the boat, and usually crew (not skipper or mate) isn't even paid.
The new airport on St. Vincent has been operational for many months now, Air Canada flies direct from Toronto.




Three boats do not make a fleet... They will head south along the coast of Africa and wait somewhere near the Canaries for a window to cross. The closer we get to November the more boats that will be running down south looking for a window to head west across the pond. Diving even further south if they need to, to not be run down by a storm making its own path across the pond.

Air Canada will not be making the St. Vincent run until December. No US majors on the sign up list for the new 9,200 foot game changing runway. Maybe the slow down to the north will set up some more direct jet service to the south.

Young Island Resort is a fantastic place to start a charter or end one.


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CHS_JDE
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745101 - 09/11/17 05:56 PM (187.141.171.229)

Moorings cancelled our charter. No refund, just a credit to use anywhere we wanted. Have to book within the next 30 days to sail within the next year.

On that note, any recommendations for novice sailors as far as location?


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Deepcut
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CHS_JDE]
      #1745113 - 09/11/17 06:23 PM (96.32.194.30)

I would think that Charter company would REFUND if not able to provide a boat. Not even the same as having to put boat into port/ hurricane hole for a few days which interrupts your plans for sunshine and sailing.

I have informed all of my direct from owner charterers that they willrecvive FULL refund from me if boat not available and even if they just want to cancel at this time. Once I know full status of Sea Tiger, and expected date for return to charter, I will give them option of continuing their booking (and all have said they still want to keep their charter dates if possible). All have expressed their concern for the people of the BVI.

--------------------
Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)


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SailOrion
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Deepcut]
      #1745117 - 09/11/17 06:30 PM (73.233.210.80)

Same exact experience as Wes. All customers expressing sympathy and concern for those impacted by Irma and interested in when TMM will be operational so they can sail the BVIs again. Thanks - Mark (S/V Orion)

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Christo
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CHS_JDE]
      #1745125 - 09/11/17 06:45 PM (81.154.126.197)

CHS_JDE do you mind me asking when your Moorings charter was supposed to be? And did they contact you or the other way around?

Thanks


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CHS_JDE
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Christo]
      #1745127 - 09/11/17 06:55 PM (173.209.212.155)

Our charter was supposed to be this week. They called about 5 days prior to let us know.

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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Deepcut]
      #1745130 - 09/11/17 07:04 PM (74.181.102.126)

Quote:

Deepcut said:
I would think that Charter company would REFUND if not able to provide a boat.




100% agree. Charterer contracted for a boat in the BVI, if charter company is unable to fulfill that contract a refund should be required.


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CHS_JDE]
      #1745136 - 09/11/17 07:16 PM (71.224.66.174)

The BVI is so crowded for so long because the BVI is the easiest. Once upon a time the slang code was "BVI is for amateurs".

Some of the easiest sailing can also be found out of Corfu and The Ionians in Greece. The season is the complete opposite of the Carribean. The downside of Greece and most of Europe is late each day you drop the anchor off the bow and back down against a concrete quay. You need one on the bow who understands anchoring and what is going on back at the helm. Yiou need a helm that knows how to back down and stop. The plus the food is spectacular. Lighter winds in the morning building as the land heats up. Some of the other bases can be more challenging.


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745140 - 09/11/17 07:23 PM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

SusanC said:
Quote:

Deepcut said:
I would think that Charter company would REFUND if not able to provide a boat.




100% agree. Charterer contracted for a boat in the BVI, if charter company is unable to fulfill that contract a refund should be required.





The operators simply do not have the cash to do that. I have my doubts many will be able to reopen without some structural change or cash infusion for rent, payroll, and repairs. Bookings and deposits just paused and expenses exploded. Do you make local payroll first or return deposits bleeding you to death in just s few days?


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CHS_JDE
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745160 - 09/11/17 08:37 PM (187.141.171.229)

It is very clearly stated in the terms and conditions so not really a surprise. I agree that a refund would have been nice but we will just be "forced" to go on another sailing vacation soon.

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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745162 - 09/11/17 08:41 PM (74.181.102.126)

Any charter company with a history of not honoring it's contract AND not offering refund would never receive my business. Period.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745163 - 09/11/17 09:02 PM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

SusanC said:
Any charter company with a history of not honoring it's contract AND not offering refund would never receive my business. Period.




That is why all the operators push for travel insurance. The Moorings for years has added it automatically requiring the guest to take the charge and reimbursement benefit off themselves. The operators lack the cash or margins to start handing payments back,


In fact one of the roles of the travel underwriters is to make sure all the players honor their contracts.


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Patriche
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745170 - 09/11/17 09:13 PM (72.78.144.138)

Our boat was in the marina in Nanny Cay, she is missing a mast, rigging, the port helm and looks like the deck has lifted from the hull. We were on the last plane out last Tuesday..... We were scheduled to go back over Thanksgiving with our grandkids, obviously that will not happen on our boat.. However, If Horizon has a boat that works we will pay to charter, without people continuing to support the local economy we are impacting all of the people that depend on this industry to live...
Agreed, it will not be the same, but unless we support them, it will take that much longer and the people who we want to see when we go to the BVI will be the ones impacted the most.... Just how we are handling it.. we all have to make our decisions depending on what works for each of us...


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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745174 - 09/11/17 09:17 PM (74.181.102.126)

IF the charterer had travel insurance and IF the insurance company reimbursed the charterer, the insurance company will go to the charter company for failure to provide service.

Also, IF the payment was made with a credit card company the charterer could file for a reimbursement for failure to provide service.

It has happened in the past, I don't recall the outcomes at the moment. During busy season, a fully booked charter company and a boat gets damaged. When a substitute boat was unavailable was the guest refunded?


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maytrix
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745180 - 09/11/17 09:28 PM (76.19.126.165)

I was curious so I took a quick look at Moorings terms and services and it does state they won't refund for anything out of their control, which includes a situation like this. So I wouldn't think you could address it with a CC company since the contract is pretty clear.

--------------------
Matt


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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CHS_JDE]
      #1745182 - 09/11/17 09:32 PM (97.91.61.135)

Quote:

CHS_JDE said:
Moorings cancelled our charter. No refund, just a credit to use anywhere we wanted. Have to book within the next 30 days to sail within the next year.




Unless Moorings has changed its Terms & Conditions since 2015, I would respectfully suggest that is not what it agreed to do.

The pertinent parts of the 2015 T&A state:

"The Moorings shall:

1. Deliver the charter vessel to the agreed charter base staunch, clean and in full commission.
* * *
5. Give charterer a credit certificate for use on future charters if there is a delay in delivery of the vessel of more than 24 hours, or the charter is cancelled by The Moorings.
* * *
6. Place charterer on a comparable vessel should the vessel charterer confirmed be unavailable due to causes beyond The Moorings' control.

Moorings agreed to charter you a specific vessel type, for a specific period of time, from a specific location (BVI). It has now cancelled your charter, because it cannot live up to its promise, admittedly for reasons beyond its control. While Moorings has certainly reserved the right to provide a credit certificate in lieu of a refund when it cancels, I would argue that the credit certificate must be for a comparable vessel departing from its base in the BVI, whenever it is able to do so, and that it cannot compel you to accept a vessel from a different base, much less force you to book within 30 days and travel within the next 12 months.

Contracts must be read as a whole and in a manner to reconcile all provisions and give effect to the intent of both parties. Talk to your lawyer.


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BEERMAN
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Patriche]
      #1745184 - 09/11/17 09:39 PM (108.45.108.124)

We certainly plan to return, we will know when "they" are ready for us. As far as the Moorings, I think a full refund seems appropriate with an option to transfer the charter to another destination in a situation like this.

We always purchase trip insurance, however we have never chosen the "cancel for any reason" option. It's usually a couple hundred more and is due upon first deposit. CSA Travels "cancel for any reason" covers 75% non refundable costs. I'm sure there's fine print relating to this option as well.


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crazycrab955
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: BEERMAN]
      #1745188 - 09/11/17 09:46 PM (103.252.112.132)

Regarding the trip insurance, I spoke to AIG and it is their interpretation that most policies will not cover this situation with The Moorings.

Why?

Because the trip cancellation clause is actually ring-fenced very tightly around a weather or other catastrophic event occurring just before or during the trip itself -- in fact, many policies specify a time frame of 24 or 48 hours.

Since Irma hit weeks/months before some of us are scheduled to charter, the insurance company expects us to make "alternate arrangements." What they will not do is fully cover the cost of the charter, in the event it is not refunded.

YMMV depending upon your specific policy. But in my case, it does not seem likely that I could get reimbursed for the cost of the charter via travel insurance. If flights are unable to land at EIS by mid-November (unlikely), then I could theoretically claim back my air ticket cost. But that is a fraction of what I have paid The Moorings.

I am a repeat customer; I hope they will do the right thing regardless of whatever rights their Ts and Cs may be interpreted to give. If not, I seriously doubt I will charter with them again.


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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745195 - 09/11/17 09:54 PM (97.91.61.135)

Quote:

StormJib said:
That is why all the operators push for travel insurance. The Moorings for years has added it automatically requiring the guest to take the charge and reimbursement benefit off themselves. The operators lack the cash or margins to start handing payments back.




Once again, Ron knows not whereof he speaks.

My last of a dozen charters with Moorings over the last 20 years or so was in 2015. Not recalling ever having been forced by Moorings to buy or pay for travel insurance, I just checked my itemized 2015 Moorings invoice. No travel insurance. Nada. Zilch.


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NCSailor
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: aarpskier]
      #1745200 - 09/11/17 10:05 PM (104.6.161.144)

Quote:

aarpskier said:
Quote:

CHS_JDE said:
Moorings cancelled our charter. No refund, just a credit to use anywhere we wanted. Have to book within the next 30 days to sail within the next year.




Unless Moorings has changed its Terms & Conditions since 2015, I would respectfully suggest that is not what it agreed to do.

The pertinent parts of the 2015 T&A state:

"The Moorings shall:

1. Deliver the charter vessel to the agreed charter base staunch, clean and in full commission.
* * *
5. Give charterer a credit certificate for use on future charters if there is a delay in delivery of the vessel of more than 24 hours, or the charter is cancelled by The Moorings.
* * *
6. Place charterer on a comparable vessel should the vessel charterer confirmed be unavailable due to causes beyond The Moorings' control.

Moorings agreed to charter you a specific vessel type, for a specific period of time, from a specific location (BVI). It has now cancelled your charter, because it cannot live up to its promise, admittedly for reasons beyond its control. While Moorings has certainly reserved the right to provide a credit certificate in lieu of a refund when it cancels, I would argue that the credit certificate must be for a comparable vessel departing from its base in the BVI, whenever it is able to do so, and that it cannot compel you to accept a vessel from a different base, much less force you to book within 30 days and travel within the next 12 months.

Contracts must be read as a whole and in a manner to reconcile all provisions and give effect to the intent of both parties. Talk to your lawyer.




The Moorings changed their contract form last year.


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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: crazycrab955]
      #1745201 - 09/11/17 10:06 PM (97.91.61.135)

There is travel insurance that covers an entire trip, and then travel insurance only for airfare. With respect to the latter, the Allianz policy, for example, states:

"Canceled services

Your airline, cruise line, or tour operator or travel supplier stops offering all services for at least 24 consecutive hours where you’re departing, arriving or making a connection because of:
_ a natural disaster; or
_ severe weather.

Specific requirement:
_ Your travel supplier doesn’t offer you a substitute itinerary."

In this case, the "travel supplier" is a BVI charter company. If it cannot provide the contracted vessel or a substitute for use in the BVI within 24 hours of the insured traveler's scheduled arrival (ticketed arrival date), a strong argument can be made that the insured traveler is entitled to a full refund of the cost of his/her ticket. And, as in the case of CHS JDE, a "substitute itinerary" obviously does not mean a certificate for a later charter from a different base on a different boat.


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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NCSailor]
      #1745204 - 09/11/17 10:09 PM (97.91.61.135)

Quote:

NCSailor said:The Moorings changed their contract form last year.




Just when I thought I was winning the rat race, they brought in faster rats! I will PM you. If you have a copy of the current Moorings terms & conditions, I'd like to see it.


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aarpskier
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: aarpskier]
      #1745209 - 09/11/17 10:22 PM (97.91.61.135)

Quote:

aarpskier said:
Quote:

NCSailor said:The Moorings changed their contract form last year.




Just when I thought I was winning the rat race, they brought in faster rats! I will PM you. If you have a copy of the current Moorings terms & conditions, I'd like to see it.




Jim: Never mind. I just reviewed an on-line version of the 9 page 06-15-17 version of the Moorings Terms & Conditions. One of the most egregious and one-sided contracts I have seen in 43 years of practice. Makes me glad I switched to other providers for our last two charters.


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: aarpskier]
      #1745211 - 09/11/17 10:28 PM (12.130.119.129)

I will be stunned if the Moorings does not refund for charters booked that can't be taken. They have a lot of bases still operating a deep pockets backing them. There are a couple of companies that operate using cash flow today to pay debts from last month. Not sure how they will cope.
G


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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1745222 - 09/12/17 12:02 AM (74.181.102.126)

Quote:

GeorgeC1 said:
I will be stunned if the Moorings does not refund for charters booked that can't be taken. They have a lot of bases still operating a deep pockets backing them. There are a couple of companies that operate using cash flow today to pay debts from last month. Not sure how they will cope.
G




I'll be stunned if they don't have insurance to cover revenue losses due to a hurricane.


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745235 - 09/12/17 02:22 AM (71.224.66.174)

Every Moorings quote we have been offered for years included these options. We always remove them and always use American Express for any advance payments if we make them at all. Another option on more expensive yacht charters is making use of a legitimate broker with bonafide escrow accounts.

https://www.moorings.com/insurance

For those that have doubts or cannot remember simply use the Moorings online tool and get a quote for yourself.


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745238 - 09/12/17 03:00 AM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

SusanC said:
Quote:

GeorgeC1 said:
I will be stunned if the Moorings does not refund for charters booked that can't be taken. They have a lot of bases still operating a deep pockets backing them. There are a couple of companies that operate using cash flow today to pay debts from last month. Not sure how they will cope.
G




I'll be stunned if they don't have insurance to cover revenue losses due to a hurricane.




The subject of storm business interruption coverage is far, far to complicated to even guess here. If an operator has it at all that coverage will be subject to specific limits. Some may only cover profit and not forecasted revenue. The policy will certainly have a limit of time(normally 30 days). The policy will have specific value limits. Limits in days of revenue. Not the 12 months of revenue some of these operators may need. On a major event and loss like this storm. Most will get a single settlement check to cover the portion of the loss the underwriters agree they must pay on. That check seldom covers all the losses. Loses that started for The Moorings when new bookings stopped and progress payments on exsistings bookings stopped. This is far more complicated with 1,000 plus boat owners and partners expecting payments to meet their notes in advance of their own insurance settlements. Just like your favorite retailer at home. We will find many of these hospitality operations offering only "store credit". Like those airline vouchers many of us have in our briefcase sometimes the vouchers are hard to use.

Every one of these operators have been telling us to buy trip insurance to protect ourselves and those traveling with us. I have suggested to only use AMEX for these trips and not a card marketed around points and cash back on this forum many times. There will be some painful lessons of the skinned knee here. The list of at risk underinsured is very long.

Some of the first painful lessons will be underswriters cutting checks for policy limits only to see those checks needed to restart the business taken by the banks holding loans to payoff the loans. The result no cash to make repairs and restart.


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NCSailor
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745241 - 09/12/17 04:53 AM (104.6.161.144)

Quote:

StormJib said:
Every Moorings quote we have been offered for years included these options. We always remove them and always use American Express for any advance payments if we make them at all. Another option on more expensive yacht charters is making use of a legitimate broker with bonafide escrow accounts.

https://www.moorings.com/insurance

For those that have doubts or cannot remember simply use the Moorings online tool and get a quote for yourself.




Travel insurance with the Moorings used to require that you opt out within two weeks of deosit by returning a written declination form. They changed this around 3 years ago. Now travel insurance is available but not automatic.


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nicky
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: onlymedication]
      #1745252 - 09/12/17 06:11 AM (92.40.132.93)

Quote:

onlymedication said:
Quote:

nicky said:
Sadly, it is probably not a good idea to plan to go on a charter to the BVI right now. We will be cancelling; apart from the obvious question of how we could 'enjoy' a charter amongst all the loss and sadness, there are insurmountable practical problems. Everyone on the Islands needs access to power, water and food, and they must have priority on all resources.
Just delay and plan to go when they are ready for visitors again and this will help the islands to get back on their feet.




I could not disagree more. When they say they are open and ready for business, it will mean they are open and ready for business. If you decide not to go because you don't think it will be the best way to spend your holiday $$ or time, that is certainly your prerogative, but don't lie to yourself or anyone else by suggesting that your choice is humanitarian in nature.




It is hard to know which part of "...plan to go when they are ready for visitors again and this will help the islands to get back on their feet."[/i] you did not comprehend. Please try to be less offensive.


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bvilovercgb
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: nicky]
      #1745266 - 09/12/17 07:33 AM (70.54.1.189)

Well, I would avoid Cane Garden Bay, there is only about 5% of homes with little or no damage. How on earth do you expect to be able to charter in a short while, when the devastation in CGB, Jost, Bitter End, Norman, are all ruined? And food shortages will be there for a good while. My family in CGB says we should all be very aware of being safe! And cruising is one thing, but being safe is quite a different story.

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nicky
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1745291 - 09/12/17 09:41 AM (92.40.132.93)

Quote:

bvilovercgb said:
Well, I would avoid Cane Garden Bay, there is only about 5% of homes with little or no damage. How on earth do you expect to be able to charter in a short while, when the devastation in CGB, Jost, Bitter End, Norman, are all ruined? And food shortages will be there for a good while. My family in CGB says we should all be very aware of being safe! And cruising is one thing, but being safe is quite a different story.




BVIlover CGB,
My thoughts exactly.
Nicky


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Christo
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: nicky]
      #1745298 - 09/12/17 10:05 AM (81.154.126.197)

Sunsail have said that they have cancelled all charters up to 31st October. Further update will be available on Friday.

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NWA4Sail
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Christo]
      #1745304 - 09/12/17 10:27 AM (204.110.197.10)

Thanks for the info Christo. We have a charter scheduled thru Sunsail 10/20-27th. If I could ask did they contact you or did you call them? This will be my 7th charter thru them and I'm hoping for a refund not credit. We looked at the Bahamas during the same dates and all they offer are larger Cats. Plus very expensive airfare!

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Christo
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NWA4Sail]
      #1745309 - 09/12/17 10:34 AM (81.154.126.197)

Hi NWA4Sail - I was talking to them about another matter and took the opportunity to ask if there was an update. We are in a similar position to you, albeit charter not until January. They said they would know more on Friday

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NWA4Sail
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Christo]
      #1745314 - 09/12/17 10:42 AM (204.110.197.10)

Thanks again! We'll follow their website and hope for the best. Good luck with your travels!

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zhawk
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NWA4Sail]
      #1745327 - 09/12/17 11:00 AM (96.18.114.143)

Mark, owner of S/v Orion at TMM emailed me Sunday and said while no specific news re Orion, that all the TMM yachts were destroyed or severely damaged. Yes he IS refunding full deposit for my Jan charter. Mark was so great to work with too. Hope he and TMM come out of all this ok.

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onlymedication
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: nicky]
      #1745373 - 09/12/17 12:49 PM (108.12.183.90)

Quote:

nicky said:
Quote:

onlymedication said:
Quote:

nicky said:
Sadly, it is probably not a good idea to plan to go on a charter to the BVI right now. We will be cancelling; apart from the obvious question of how we could 'enjoy' a charter amongst all the loss and sadness, there are insurmountable practical problems. Everyone on the Islands needs access to power, water and food, and they must have priority on all resources.
Just delay and plan to go when they are ready for visitors again and this will help the islands to get back on their feet.




I could not disagree more. When they say they are open and ready for business, it will mean they are open and ready for business. If you decide not to go because you don't think it will be the best way to spend your holiday $$ or time, that is certainly your prerogative, but don't lie to yourself or anyone else by suggesting that your choice is humanitarian in nature.




It is hard to know which part of "...plan to go when they are ready for visitors again and this will help the islands to get back on their feet." you did not comprehend. Please try to be less offensive.




Perhaps it was the bolded part which led me astray. I personally think labeling my post as offensive is a touch strong. Nevertheless, I do sincerely apologize that I have offended you. All the best...


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: NWA4Sail]
      #1745376 - 09/12/17 01:02 PM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

NWA4Sail said:
Thanks for the info Christo. We have a charter scheduled thru Sunsail 10/20-27th. If I could ask did they contact you or did you call them? This will be my 7th charter thru them and I'm hoping for a refund not credit. We looked at the Bahamas during the same dates and all they offer are larger Cats. Plus very expensive airfare!




October is one of the most challenging months for charter boat weather. That is too early for the Bahamas where storms can show up from nowhere in October. It is starting to get cool and the last month many of the bases are open in Europe. The weather will still be hot in southern Spain where Sunsail has options. Grenada should be warm and ready to go this October. Sundsail has many, many locations spanning the globe.


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Joeswind
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745541 - 09/12/17 10:05 PM (173.89.25.35)

Of course any talk of getting the charter fleet back up to norm assumes the owner's appetite to replace their boat vs. just taking the money and retiring from the fleet.

--------------------
Mike M.


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Joeswind]
      #1745576 - 09/13/17 06:02 AM (71.224.66.174)

Quote:

Joeswind said:
Of course any talk of getting the charter fleet back up to norm assumes the owner's appetite to replace their boat vs. just taking the money and retiring from the fleet.




It takes a village. The banks and insurance underwriters must be in. Certainly the easiest path is current and past owners actively making down payments and signing docs for newer and bigger boats. If the most recent boat owners are not there with some cash and their credit? The charter operator and boat manufacturers can fill at least some of those gaps with a large and active sales presence at every boat show and even demos staffed with sales talent on every dock on Tortola. The lowest cost way to go own a boat in the Carribean is charter.


The jump start and pump primer is the new boats already in the pipeline with a business dream of making a delivery to the VI before the busy season starts past Thanksgiving. The largest threat may be docks and airlift allowing guests to get to and from what is open for business.

Edited by StormJib (09/13/17 08:20 AM)


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Will_L
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745599 - 09/13/17 08:32 AM (67.45.114.198)

Quote:

StormJib said:
Quote:

Joeswind said:
Of course any talk of getting the charter fleet back up to norm assumes the owner's appetite to replace their boat vs. just taking the money and retiring from the fleet. [/quote

It takes a village. The banks and insurance underwriters must be in. Certainly the easiest path is current and past owners actively making down
payments and signing docs for newer and bigger boats. If the most recent boat owners are not there with some cash and their credit? The charter operator and boat manufacturers can fill at least some of those gaps with a
large and active sales presence at every boat show and even demos staffed with sales talent on every dock on Tortola. The lowest cost way to go own a boat in the Carribean is charter.




Indeed this is a very unique business model and it faces an unimaginable headwind. The industry depends essentially on a customer (a buyer of a charter yacht) to furnish the product they rent to other customers by the week.
In most businesses acquiring a new customer is the most difficult sales job they have. It is far easier to profit from and deal with existing clients/customers than find new ones.

Looking at paraquita bay, moorings base, nanny Cay, Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbor and hearing from some of the charter companies, it would seem to me that the majority of the fleet is either a total loss or badly damaged.

So as mentioned above is the owner of a charter boat that receives a settlement from a total loss likely to turn around a purchase a new boat? There will be many financial outcomes from this disaster. Many with an older boat in a fleet nearing phaseout have in many cases found themselves underwater on the mortgage. The insurance proceeds based on the hull value they insured for will likely allow them to pay off the boat and have some money left. The mortgage payments, commissions and storage fees as you try to sell a boat after charter go away.

But that charter owner knows they got out of a trap. If after 5-7 years of ownership they found their circumstances changed and not taking weeks of sailing vacations, they are not likely to invest in a new boat.

Those getting an insurance payment for a new boat may or may not be made completely whole but should be back near even. They will have the opportunity to make the same decision they did in the last couple years, write a check for down payment and sign a contract. How eager will they be to do that. Many of us know that the storm damage on the islands we love will heal. The green will return in time. But will the owner getting that insurance settlement want to immediately reinvest or "wait and see"?

The owner of a badly damaged boat that is not totalled will have a different perhaps more complex set of problems. If the boat is in a fixed income charter operation like Moorings I assume the hit will be on the moorings unless there is something in the contract that they can get out. But in charter companies that pay the owner a % of charter income after all expenses, the expenses and mortgage payments will go on for months with no income while waiting for repairs.

Attracting new owners that just begin studying the situation will be exceedingly difficult in the aftermath of this storm that depended on a track that if it had been 50 miles farther north would have done moderate damage. All mention of the Virgin Islands will be about the devastation and difficulties in recovering. I had friends cancel a trip because of the mosquito borne illness scare last year. With the news being about suffering and cleanup, not many new customers I fear are going to choose to become owners or charterers in the BVIs this season.

It is likely that some charter companies will not survive. Those with deep pockets will. But it may be a much smaller fleet with drastic effects on employment for the industry and tourism dollars, thus hurting the already fragile economy for a long while.
Fast talking salesmen at boatshows won't help much. Selling New Orleans condos in the fall of 2005 after Katrina would be a similar plan. It will take some time.

Sorry for the length. I hope I am wrong .


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maytrix
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Will_L]
      #1745636 - 09/13/17 10:11 AM (38.98.111.83)

In the case of moorings and the fixed income, I doubt they aren't going to take a hit on that. The contract clearly states (unless it has been changed) that on a total loss of the yacht, the contract can be terminated by either party. What seems to be a grey area is when will they be able to confirm the yachts are a total loss or not? I would think until they do that, they are on the hook for the fixed payments, but that might just be 1 month and this is the slow season anyway so it isn't as if every boat was earning revenue. I imagine once confirmed as a loss, the guaranteed payments will end?

I think owners for the most part should come out in an ok position since the boat in the first year or two is covered for its full value. It then gets lowered after that. How many will want to start over and how long will it take to get new boats to start over is a whole different question. I would think it might be more difficult for the custom charter companies since they don't have a bunch of boats already being built and on order like Moorings does. Many companies don't get the boat and then find an owner, they find an owner who wants to purchase a boat..etc.

So for sure, once things are running again, it will be a much smaller fleet. It will take years before things are back to where they were.

--------------------
Matt


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Michel_Benarrosh
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: zhawk]
      #1745678 - 09/13/17 11:20 AM (67.205.202.28)

Hello all.

I have been going to the BVI for 30 years. I cannot begin to describe how sad I am... Some French media, talking about St Martin, use the words: Biblical proportions. They also mention the fact that many St Martin residents are leaving, saying they will never return. Consequently, the French media now question if it is simply viable to live in the Caribbean any more...! I cannot find words...

Now, as being somewhat an industry insider, I have information saying that ALL OPERATORS pretty much lost ALL of their boats or 99% of them.
An operator like BVI YC losing all its boats is, I am afraid, a death sentence. It is heartbreaking. There is no way companies like this, or TMM, etc... will be able to replace their fleet for at least 1 year - IF they have buyers/owners willing to take on that experience again. Additionally, the boat builders were already sold out for 10 to 12 months BEFORE Irma - except perhaps for monohulls which are not the bulk of the industry.
Only large operators, assuming they can bring boats from other bases without disrupting the charter bookings at those bases, will be able to cover SOME of the BVI bookings this season, and certainly not all of them. Way too early to tell.

A last thought: if that massive boat destruction is confirmed, this is an event that will alter the face of the used boat industry for probably 2 years, since many charter boats are providing for the second hand market on a large scale.

What a sadness....

--------------------
Michel Benarrosh
Meb@sailonline.com


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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Michel_Benarrosh]
      #1745682 - 09/13/17 11:38 AM (199.168.151.165)

Look for the smaller players and opportunist to gather some of the boats declared a Constructive Total Loss to create a fleet of value boats. One example could be three 4800 hundreds one that sunk and survived with a good rig, one that flipped on the hard without a rig, one that was near rubbed to death on one side. Three hulls or even ten combined to make boats ready to sail and charter. The insurance underwriters will pay off single near new boats that are too risky to return to near new condition locally in a timely manner. Hulls with many critical parts that are near new and undamaged. The practice is to pay the policy limit and auction or otherwise liquidate with a new title the hull they just paid off. In the marine underwriting trade "totaled" or "Constructive Total Loss" does not mean worthless or impossible to ever float again. Buy ten hulls, put them on a barge to Trinidad, and sail back five or more.

The first step is a dock, brand(s), and cash. With a book of business there will be buyers for those boats once they are in charter somewhere. The Moorings started with ten boats that sailed from the yacht club dock in New Orleans. I was there. A least one of the old or the next new brands will rise from one or more of those boat piles.


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CGB
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1745689 - 09/13/17 11:58 AM (70.49.187.173)

Well - looking for "any" silver lining in this...

Those upright hulls - could be used as temporary shelter for homeless
At least for the short-term

Not exactly what the owners would want to be happening - but....


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maytrix
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: CGB]
      #1745691 - 09/13/17 12:07 PM (38.98.111.83)

I think they have already started doing that at Nanny Cay (with owners permission).

--------------------
Matt


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Laserking
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: maytrix]
      #1745763 - 09/13/17 03:19 PM (66.83.92.194)

I appreciate the optimism of some of the posts. I unfortunately see it a bit differently. I have been going to the Virgin Islands since 1980. My first BVI charter was 1982. Irma was a once in a century event. The U.K. is an ocean away, unlike the USVI and the USA. The major problem with the BVI recovery is the scale of the damage and destruction. The boats have to be separated, identified, the damage assessed, insurance issues addressed and eventually resolved. This will take many months if not longer. The boats that are reparable will need to be fixed, but where is the space and labor and materials in the boatyards and marinas? The ones that are not will have to be moved somewhere. The charter bases are all heavily damaged. Some of the smaller companies do not have deep reserves. There is no functioning infrastructure, and this will take months to get back together on even a rudimentary level (i.e., roads, electrical, water treatment, etc). There are no functioning grocery stores. Most supplies and material will have to come by water. There is limited skilled labor, and the need will be greatest to get the buildings and homes put back together. People are homeless and jobless on all of the islands and most lived week to week even before this storm. It's just a tremendous tragedy all the way around. I do believe that the BVI will eventually recover, but the fact that they depend on yachting tourism almost exclusively makes it a more difficult and much more lengthy process. I am still planning on going in February, but to volunteer, not sail. I respect everyone who wants to still go and charter. I hope that things will recover more quickly than I imagine, but it's hard for me to be optimistic. God bless the wonderful people of those magnificent islands and all of those trying so hard to help.

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hikernut
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Laserking]
      #1745775 - 09/13/17 04:12 PM (198.175.253.81)

Quote:

Laserking said:
I am still planning on going in February, but to volunteer, not sail.




My wife and I discussed volunteering, if and when it makes sense. We don't have any direct contacts on any of the islands, though, so I wouldn't even know where to start. For now we send money to help the established entities with emergency response.


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GlennAModerator
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Laserking]
      #1745778 - 09/13/17 04:18 PM (70.177.24.194)

I don't believe food is going to be a problem. Both RTW/Riteway and One Mart are open and have shipments arriving. Fuel also is not in poor supply though distribution is a problem. Electricity is the big one.

If you closely examine the wreckage in Paraquita Bay it looks like more than half of the boats are locally salvagable and while maybe not up to Moorings standards can economicaly be brought back to serve the second market. However, there is not enough labor in the islands to rebuild the housing and restore the charter fleet.

It all depends on how the BVI government acts from this point forward and judging by their actions over the last 6 days the outlook is not good. The draconian work permit rules and processing and a short sighted attitude import duties will be a windfall profit for the government. If they continue to restrict labor and try to profit from material imports making it harder and more expensive to restore their boats the boat owners are going to take their insurance money and go elsewhere.

--------------------
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain


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Laserking
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: hikernut]
      #1745786 - 09/13/17 04:40 PM (66.83.92.194)

There is a thread on this forum regarding volunteering. Here is the link to the website. https://www.bvivolunteers.com

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kunphuzn
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: GlennA]
      #1745797 - 09/13/17 05:09 PM (204.153.60.10)

I have been staying out of this because I felt that it was not my place to opine when I have such great sadness and sympathy but really no clue what these ppl in a place that I love are going through. My heart breaks for them and I am actually more concerned for the folks in the Caribbean than I am for my home state and Florida. However, I agree with Glenn. The BVI gov't would be smart to open up their work permit regulations and let the islands become the construction boom of the century.

Investors will come, but money without labor is pointless. Plus rebuild cannot be done on "island time". I know there is no comparison, but in Texas after spring storms with damage, roofers are beating down your door to get your roof replacement and they come from all over the country. Construction companies and workers go where the work is. If the islands open up their doors to workers, looking for gainful employment at a decent wage, things can turn around exponentially more quickly than if they just let BVI workers work construction projects, etc.

The wheels wont start turning until basic infrastructure is in place and that is on the gov't, but after electricity and communications are back up, bring on the US and British construction companies to get in there and rock this thing out. That includes rebuilding roads (contract that s&$% out) and homes and businesses.

I am hoping once the shock and awe has passed that the gov't will realize that they cannot do this on their own and they need to outsource the rebuilding of their beautiful home. If they follow that path, give it a year and by time construction is wrapping up the flora and fauna will be coming back and with that, so will the tourist $$$'s.


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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Laserking]
      #1745802 - 09/13/17 05:45 PM (74.181.102.126)

Quote:

Laserking said:
There is a thread on this forum regarding volunteering. Here is the link to the website. https://www.bvivolunteers.com




In theory this is wonderful to see, however I thought the BVI had laws against any non-belongers volunteering services. Guess this goes back to a need to temporarily suspend the work permit requirements.


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bvilovercgb
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: SusanC]
      #1745849 - 09/13/17 08:43 PM (70.54.1.189)

Seeing the total devastation of these islands is one thing to see photos, to be there is quite another. Who is going to get these boats ready in the next few weeks? Where are they going to be put? There is need of docks, to even put the few working boats in the water. All foreign nationals are leaving as they have no place to live...So, who is going to help the vacationers in November and December? And from what I understand, there is just no way that power will be restored to some of these villages in the next year! So even though one wishes to volunteer, one must still get permission from the powers that be, and that my friends will not be done in the next few months. How will the government get their monies from volunteers...I don't see it.

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StormJib
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1745851 - 09/13/17 09:07 PM (71.224.66.174)

Disaster declarations are exactly for drastic changes in the rules. Branson has suggested a much bigger leap to a "Marshall Plan" a history and theory that could take ten or more Glenn's to pen and publish.

Today anything that looks like water, perishable food, or basic building materials should not be slowed or taxed by the BVI. Let the whole Home Depot in for 180 days.


Volunteers unless you have really done this before. Do not even think about doing this with an organization who is not a pro at this. You wil waste your time, money, and most importantly the limited space and resources for real work. Work that will go on for years and long after CNN forgets. Go with the pros or help them pack at home if you must volenteer. At home we have networks of churches that are fantastic at 7 days disaster feeding staffing. We have others that are even better at 7 day housing trips where you can add real value at least five days. Cowboy I will travel and wing it? What a disruptive waste. Find a group that has done it before and sign up for the rules. When your number and day is called accept you will have zero say where you are needed and where you will deploy with your team. Any promises to to the contrary watch that Goldie Hawn military movie.


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Lenair
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Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: StormJib]
      #1746069 - 09/14/17 03:39 PM (40.129.72.106)

Moorings/FootLoose is letting us chose between a re-book or a refund.

--------------------
[url=https://www.TickerFactory.com/]

[/url]


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SusanC
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Re: Upcoming Charters [Re: Lenair]
      #1746090 - 09/14/17 04:46 PM (74.181.102.126)

Quote:

Lenair said:
Moorings/FootLoose is letting us chose between a re-book or a refund.






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