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rpacl
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Joined: 10/04/17
Posts: 1
Don't charter with the Catamarans Company
      #1748634 - 10/05/17 10:39 AM (71.233.171.82)

Do not charter with the Catamaran Company - www.catamarans.com - they are unethical. In July I put a deposit on a December charter. This trip was a treat to look forward to for my wife who has spent the last 3 months both in the hospital and homebound in a successful battle with breast cancer. When we learned of the devastation of the VIís we cancelled our vacation knowing that the vacation could not be as we expected it to be when we booked it..
Catamarans took my deposit without providing me with a contract to sign or providing me with any description of their cancellation policy. No contract with Catamarans should mean that we have not agreed to their cancellation policy. Yet they will not return my deposit. I'm not happy.


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GTcapt
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: rpacl]
      #1748650 - 10/05/17 12:20 PM (108.77.24.25)

We had a charter for June with the Moorings. After 16 charters in the BVI and years ago having gone after a major hurricane, I realized that it will not recover to provide the experience I have had in the past and was about to pay good money in June to have again! They did permit our cancellation however charged a $400 fee. I would rather lose the $400 than spend thousands more for a vacation which would probably not meet my expectations. We did have a contract and knew up front their policy. I am not pleased losing the money as the BVI I booked is not just yet back in order. I would never book with the Moorings again and probably not return to the BVI.
On a much more important note, I hope your wife is recovering well and has many years or future vacations to look forward too.


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dayhiker
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: GTcapt]
      #1748653 - 10/05/17 12:49 PM (69.29.52.178)

Their cancellation policy is on their website.

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warren460
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: dayhiker]
      #1748659 - 10/05/17 01:17 PM (24.114.25.240)

How is the catamaran company unethical?
If the boat is available then how does the cancellation policy come into play.

Many of us would go in December. In some respects the bvi will exceed expectations and in other respects it will disappoint.

--------------------
Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450


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maytrix
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: warren460]
      #1748662 - 10/05/17 01:36 PM (24.91.86.214)

rapcl, you may have a real argument to get your money back. Moorings at least sends out paperwork after a deposit is made with the Terms and conditions that is supposed to be signed and sent back.

I think in regards to Moorings, $400 is very reasonable. They fully refunded charters for those that they couldn't provide boats for, even though I believe their contract states they don't need to and could put the deposit towards a charter at a different time.

These companies have a lost a lot as well and while they may have insurance to cover things, there are limits to that and it probably ends once they have boats available..etc. I don't know that I'd blame any company for charging a cancellation fee (especially one so reasonable) when they can provide a boat.

--------------------
Matt


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purplelily
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: maytrix]
      #1748672 - 10/05/17 03:22 PM (98.6.172.58)

Since there seem to be people willing to go during the early phases of recovery, and others that don't want to - seems like the charter companies would have a win/win by simply allowing those that want to cancel do so. A nominal administrative fee seems reasonable.

"Forcing" people to go this early against their better judgment (by not refunding fully paid trips) seems like a really bad idea to me. Those folks are going to be disappointed in their vacations, and likely to report to the public how terrible things were.

Much better business practice to get the folks that don't mind roughing it down there during the early phase, as those are the ones most likely to report back about how great things are looking.


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HillsideView
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: purplelily]
      #1748688 - 10/05/17 07:16 PM (70.192.72.162)

The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.

--------------------
My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...


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sbrownell
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: HillsideView]
      #1748690 - 10/05/17 07:30 PM (99.184.248.112)

We had a charter with Virgin Island sailing out of St Thomas booked for Oct 25th. We actually canceled it within our 45 day window to incur a 200 or 300 fee. We were asked, and did keep our deposit (almost 4k) on file with them to use any time in 2018. I couldn't imagine putting that burden on these guys at these times when I know for sure I'm coming back. BVI and the charter companies really do need our support. Just my 2 cents.

--------------------
Steph


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sail445
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: HillsideView]
      #1748691 - 10/05/17 08:02 PM (107.72.162.119)

Right on.
100% time to charter 30 to 40'years back when there was a sense of adventure instead of those with Zero


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Winterstale
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: HillsideView]
      #1748705 - 10/06/17 05:56 AM (24.147.179.117)

Quote:

HillsideView said:
The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.




Ditto


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Tackmaster
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Winterstale]
      #1748716 - 10/06/17 08:33 AM (96.40.221.193)

Me Three!!


Quote:

Winterstale said:
Quote:

HillsideView said:
The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.




Ditto




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aarpskier
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: sbrownell]
      #1748719 - 10/06/17 08:44 AM (97.91.61.135)

Quote:

sbrownell said:
We had a charter with Virgin Island sailing out of St Thomas booked for Oct 25th. We actually canceled it within our 45 day window to incur a 200 or 300 fee. ... BVI and the charter companies really do need our support. Just my 2 cents.




Agree. Same situation. We have already re-booked our October 25 VIYC charter to next April.


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kneafseym
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: aarpskier]
      #1748735 - 10/06/17 10:06 AM (99.12.86.214)

In a CatCo theme. We were looking to buy a boat to bareboat and jump back in, knowing a new boat would get a great revenue stream immediately and knowing people will want to return. Catco had a Lagoon 42 available from the factory to BVI in December. It would have been in CatCo's fleet. I could not get a copy of the owners contract and expenses from them, gave up after 3 requests. The boat also had a horrible equipment list, Genset only, no inverter, small battery bank and no solar. Guest would have had to run genset 24/7 which would add to my maintenance cost. The davits were also a step back to the Leopard 4500, which were horrible. when we build Aristo-Cat II, it was built with reducing my maintenance cost and increasing guest experience.

--------------------
Mike


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Dugg
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Winterstale]
      #1748804 - 10/07/17 10:25 AM (71.186.239.164)

Quote:
HillsideView said:
The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.

We're definitely not high maintenance types. Looking forward to breakfast at Rhymers (who have managed to survive as shown in their video). See you in May.

Peace
Dugg and Chris

--------------------
The sun and the sand and a drink in my hand with no bottom
and no shoes, no shirt, and no problems...KC


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RickinAtlanta
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Dugg]
      #1748806 - 10/07/17 10:56 AM (73.43.135.85)

Quote:

Dugg said:
Quote:
HillsideView said:
The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.

We're definitely not high maintenance types. Looking forward to breakfast at Rhymers (who have managed to survive as shown in their video). See you in May.

Peace
Dugg and Chris




Could you post a link to the video?


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PelicanPirate
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Winterstale]
      #1748811 - 10/07/17 11:12 AM (98.29.235.208)



--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1748812 - 10/07/17 11:50 AM (63.145.95.70)

All the charter companies in the BVI big or small are facing enormous odds as they try and reconstruct their companies. Many of the smaller companies I suspect don't have the cash on hand for refunds. The survival of most charter companies depends on deferring those bookings and retaining the cash. It also depends on getting boat orders. Buyers are going to be reluctant to place a boat order with a company that has a uncertain future. The companies are fully aware of this and will spin things in the best possible light. No one is going to disclose their true financial picture.
If you have a favorite company you want to support book a charter with them. They need the bookings and this coming hi season will be critical to survival. Do however take out trip insurance!
G

Edited by GeorgeC1 (10/07/17 11:52 AM)


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Dugg
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: RickinAtlanta]
      #1748964 - 10/09/17 11:59 AM (71.186.239.164)

Quote
Could you post a link to the video?

Sorry, didn't save a link to the video, which was taken from within Rhymers during Irma through their windows (still intact)!
Best video of CGB I've seen (address is too long to post) can be found on Youtube - just look for one titled "My Beautiful Cane Garden Bay". It was taken from a vehicle driving down the street.

Peace
Dugg and Chris

--------------------
The sun and the sand and a drink in my hand with no bottom
and no shoes, no shirt, and no problems...KC


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bvilovercgb
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Dugg]
      #1748985 - 10/09/17 02:11 PM (70.54.1.245)

Just saw the video...of "My Beautiful Cane Garden Bay" cannot imagine that devastation just a few weeks ago "welcoming" tourists. Cannot imagine.

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RickinAtlanta
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Dugg]
      #1749018 - 10/09/17 06:19 PM (73.43.135.85)

Seen those then.

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d_fish
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: bvilovercgb]
      #1749020 - 10/09/17 06:36 PM (68.231.214.87)

I'm in the same boat as the OP except with Voyage Charters.

July this year I put 50% down for a charter next spring. Voyage sent me the invoice in which I paid first. I did not receive the contract until deposit was received - I double checked my emails to verify the timing.

I have not signed the contract yet either. Of course after the hurricane hit, I checked the details in the contract. Somewhere along the way Voyage increased their cancellation fee to 20% of the trip fee. For my group this amount totals $2400 cancellation fee - rather steep and in hindsight don't know if I would charter with them again knowing this - but easy to say after the fact! I would be happy with a $400 Moorings cancellation fee.

I am very concerned that very little communication is forth coming from Voyage - compared to TMM and other companies in the BVIs right now. I worry about their viability.

I did call them a few weeks ago, they have laid off their office staff in Annapolis and seemed to be trying to regroup but I could hear the desperation in the reps voice. It was mentioned to me that the boat we have chartered is lost. Only a handful of boats are charter worthy and they are trying to figure out how to juggle charters.

At this stage, I know my friends are not interested in going in Spring. Each to their own - I don't blame them. I personally am not interested in spending $14k for a catamaran for 2 people.

Where to go from here.... I simply don't know. Being patient with Voyage, but again the lack of communication is rather concerning.

FWIW I heard from a Leopard dealer that 18 cats were sold during the boat show this past week. I am sure that is a record.


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Dirichlet
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: HillsideView]
      #1749064 - 10/10/17 09:45 AM (132.250.22.4)

Quote:

HillsideView said:
The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.



I've been talking with some of my crew from previous trips. Even though our first charter was in 2009, we are all excited to get back down.

--------------------
... DIF all the time...


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Dirichlet
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: d_fish]
      #1749086 - 10/10/17 02:56 PM (132.250.22.4)

Quote:

d_fish said:..Somewhere along the way Voyage increased their cancellation fee to 20% of the trip fee...


That's always been their policy... it wasn't "suddenly" increased. That was the policy in 2014 - I had a two-boat trip and had the other captain pull out. Thankfully, I found a replacement who turned out to be better than the original ever would have been. But, during my panic, I explored all options, and 20% cancellation was one of them.
Now, Voyage was very up front that they would be happy to roll the percentage paid (50% at that time) into a charter on a different date, with not penalty / fee.

I spoke with the Voyage people at the ABS, and they were very optimistic. Boats are being repaired, new boats are being delivered with many new ones under construction. Give it a little time, and talk (calmly) with their reps about your options.

--------------------
... DIF all the time...


Edited by Dirichlet (10/10/17 02:57 PM)


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Dirichlet]
      #1749123 - 10/10/17 10:15 PM (108.213.0.118)

Voyage just sent a email out thanking all their customers for allowing them to keep their deposits.
G


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Deepcut
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1749130 - 10/11/17 05:00 AM (96.32.194.30)

GeorgeC1

What? As in charter cancelled an kept deposit?

--------------------
Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Deepcut]
      #1749135 - 10/11/17 06:34 AM (108.213.0.118)

Until they can reopen and a future charter booked.

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Riverfrontbrewer
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1749138 - 10/11/17 07:41 AM (69.144.63.76)

From a Voyage email 10/10/17. For context, since it was left out by the poster above.

Thank you to all our wonderful clients, who have allowed us to postpone their charters, hold their deposits and credit them towards a future charter. By allowing VOYAGE Charters to do so at this difficult time, you have given us a tremendous boost of support. Although there is much to be done, we have already started to rebuild in order to resume operations and get you back out on charter.
We sincerely appreciate your understanding and support as we work towards a better, stronger BVI!

For any questions regarding current or future bookings, please contact Dave and Chris Beavis, our VOYAGE reservations managers.

--------------------


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Riverfrontbrewer]
      #1749163 - 10/11/17 10:43 AM (108.213.0.118)

The problem is some have requested a return of their deposits and it has not happened.
G


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Riverfrontbrewer
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: GeorgeC1]
      #1749168 - 10/11/17 11:10 AM (72.175.100.34)

Who asked for a refund? In rereading this thread I didn't see that.

--------------------


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GeorgeC1
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Riverfrontbrewer]
      #1749172 - 10/11/17 11:22 AM (108.213.0.118)

I sent you a PM

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NewfieSailor
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: HillsideView]
      #1749175 - 10/11/17 11:46 AM (99.249.98.195)

Quote:

HillsideView said:
The BVI has been pushed back 30 years. It was a special place and time then. High maintenance types and/or those with high/demanding expectations are going to be sorely disappointed. Personally, I can hardly wait to get back. Simple times again.




Totally agree! Can't wait to go back.


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Deepcut
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: NewfieSailor]
      #1749205 - 10/11/17 06:10 PM (96.32.194.30)

Holding deposit for a currently booked charter that cannot occur as scheduled should result in an immediate refund unless agreed to by charterer.

If charter company can place on a replacement yacht (i.e. another Lagoon 45 if chartered a Lagoon 45) for the same time period, then charter company would (likely) be following contract.

--------------------
Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)


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Will_L
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Deepcut]
      #1749210 - 10/11/17 07:41 PM (67.45.112.171)

Thinking Voyage is not on as firm financial footing as TMM and Moorings. Thatís likely what the deal is. Will they survive and make good on keeping deposits on charters they cannot fulfil as scheduled? Possibly ..but who knows? My take..if they donít have a boat available for a scheduled charter and you request a refund for a charter booked during that time..you are entitled to a full refund if you donít choose to wait until later.
It would be wise for these companies to offer 10 days for 7 or a significant discount to book a charter later than scheduled. But not returning deposits on boats not available is unconciounsnable. ..or sign they are financially precarious.
The same company if indeed are forcing someone to take a different boat or a different time ..would in no way allow a chartered to change those items a few weeks out.

--------------------
http://tropicalbreeze.smugmug.com/


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tradewinds
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Will_L]
      #1749212 - 10/11/17 07:59 PM (99.82.249.196)

Quote:

Will_L said:
Thinking Voyage is not on as firm financial footing as TMM and Moorings. Thatís likely what the deal is. Will they survive and make good on keeping deposits on charters they cannot fulfil as scheduled? Possibly ..but who knows? My take..if they donít have a boat available for a scheduled charter and you request a refund for a charter booked during that time..you are entitled to a full refund if you donít choose to wait until later.
It would be wise for these companies to offer 10 days for 7 or a significant discount to book a charter later than scheduled. But not returning deposits on boats not available is unconciounsnable. ..or sign they are financially precarious.
The same company if indeed are forcing someone to take a different boat or a different time ..would in no way allow a chartered to change those items a few weeks out.




Sorry, but I beg to differ. After talking to the Voyage reps, including the co-owner of the company, at the Annapolis Boat Show, I don't have a problem with their solvency. Obviously, the Moorings has a bigger base to draw from if you want to just be a number. And after talking to TMM, they didn't give a warm fuzzy feeling. In terms of George's beef with Voyage the past few years, he's not even an owner anymore, but obviously an expert, and that's gotten long in the tooth.


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Will_L
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: tradewinds]
      #1749221 - 10/11/17 09:08 PM (67.45.112.171)

Whoa, may have been wrong. I donít have a dog in this fight. I know that having had a boat with TMM for many years and knowing Barney Crook, the owner, he was a pioneer of the charter business. I owe them not a thing, nor do they me. Havenít spoken to them for 4 years. Iím certain the pockets are deep. As is the company behind moorings id guess.

I thought I read a post where voyage was equivocal about refunding money on abooked charter they could not accommodate, if wrong, Iím sorry. If true, that to my mind is unacceptable. I donít know your interests or Georgeís. I have ZERO interest in where or if anyone charters a boat. If an airline or a villa or a charter company are not willing to refund monies for a trip this year to the bvi they are greedy or donít have funds for a refund. Your milage may vary. All good.

Iíve got much more money likely lost in this fiasco that was Irma than you do and guessing much more in contributions to the general funds and people i care about in the BVI. Please donít lecture those who have invested in boats and property if you have nothing currently at risk.


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tradewinds
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Will_L]
      #1749222 - 10/11/17 09:19 PM (99.82.249.196)

Once again, I would beg to differ. You have no idea how much we've contributed to help the people that we know and need it, rather than mouthing off. You have NO IDEA what we have invested in. I wasn't lecturing at all, you were being long-winded about stuff you know nothing about.

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Will_L
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: tradewinds]
      #1749223 - 10/11/17 09:26 PM (67.45.112.171)

Whatever, this is exactly why I donít come here very much and I assume why itís much slower than in previous times. Rave on.. Iím done. I hope all your land and sea properties in the bvi fared well.

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tradewinds
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Will_L]
      #1749230 - 10/11/17 10:56 PM (99.82.249.196)

I'm not raving about anything. Please, be done.

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d_fish
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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: Will_L]
      #1749232 - 10/11/17 11:47 PM (68.231.214.87)

Quote:

Will_L said:
Thinking Voyage is not on as firm financial footing as TMM and Moorings. Thatís likely what the deal is. Will they survive and make good on keeping deposits on charters they cannot fulfil as scheduled? Possibly ..but who knows? My take..if they donít have a boat available for a scheduled charter and you request a refund for a charter booked during that time..you are entitled to a full refund if you donít choose to wait until later.
It would be wise for these companies to offer 10 days for 7 or a significant discount to book a charter later than schedule. But not returning deposits on boats not available is unconciounsnable. ..or sign they are financially precarious.
The same company if indeed are forcing someone to take a different boat or a different time ..would in no way allow a chartered to change those items a few weeks out.




I tend to agree with the latter part of the statement about returning deposits for a full refund on a charter boat that cannot be delivered. My group does not wish to take a different boat at a different time period. They told me flat out they want to cancel and receive a refund. I cannot change that and why should I convince them otherwise, its their money, their time and their prerogative. They will consider a trip possibly 2 years down the road, but do not wish to leave a substantial deposit on hold with Voyage.

Voyage was very vague regarding our options a few weeks ago when I called regarding our trip and deposit. They requested more time to assess even though the rep told me they were down to 6 out of 30 vessels in their fleet and 1 new one on the way for November. I said that even with 7 boats next year they couldn't accommodate all charters in the timeframe we are scheduled, so we would choose a full refund. He said he would notate that on our account and left it at that. So I did not officially request a refund but implied we would like a full refund as the boat we chartered was lost.

Yesterday I too received the email thanking their "wonderful clients who have allowed them to postpone their charters and hold their deposits and credit towards future charters" We did not agree to this... now what??? I have not yet requested a refund, but think I will call tomorrow.


Edited by d_fish (10/12/17 12:23 AM)


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Re: Don't charter with the Catamarans Company [Re: tradewinds]
      #1749235 - 10/12/17 08:07 AM (107.77.253.5)

This one is done, for sure.

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