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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
      #1372736 - 01/14/12 08:33 AM (184.241.217.31)

Story here Wow..

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kneafseym
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1372787 - 01/14/12 11:00 AM (99.12.87.67)

Carol very bad for the guests and the local's. Another not so bad grounding earlier this month. Cruise Ship aground in Bahamas

--------------------
Mike


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BigGreenFan
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1372826 - 01/14/12 12:10 PM (69.131.226.48)

Hard to understand how that happens with today's technology

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HillsideView
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: BigGreenFan]
      #1372917 - 01/14/12 06:16 PM (67.237.3.192)

Like the commentary near the end of the video. Countries would be smart to enact laws allowing them to assess multi million dollar fines ($5-$10 million) for damaging a reef like that.

--------------------
My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...


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JudyG
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: BigGreenFan]
      #1372936 - 01/14/12 08:48 PM (76.19.218.21)

I really can't help thinking that an eleven story ship, 3 football fields long and carrying 4000 people is pushing the limits of what makes sense because even with back-up systems, when they fail, they fail.

I pray they find any people who may still be in the ship.


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: JudyG]
      #1372999 - 01/15/12 09:11 AM (184.241.217.31)

I've just been reading several news stories online. It just doesn't make any sense, how it happened. The ship travelled that itinerary every week. Some are saying it was a submerged rock and others say there was a power failure. I just saw a story that said 8 now dead. Scary, that the whole thing happened.

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swg
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373045 - 01/15/12 12:18 PM (24.152.248.178)

In the newspaper article I read in the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning a Costa hostess said that they only have the muster drills every 15 days; therefore, depending on when passengers board they may miss the drills. Apparently the crew also has infrequent drills. Is that ever scary!

It also said that there may have been both a power failure and a failure of the back-up system. Pretty incredible in today's world of technology.

Interesting to note that Costa is owned by Carnival.

Sue


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: swg]
      #1373100 - 01/15/12 04:23 PM (184.241.217.31)

OK, I didn't hear that about the power systems. That is really bad, that you could go on a WHOLE CRUISE and never be scheduled to have a muster drill. As far their being owned by Carnival, h*ll, half of the ships sailing today are ultimately owned by Carnival--or more..

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kneafseym
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373226 - 01/16/12 09:12 AM (99.12.87.67)

Interesting understatement quote today on CNN
Quote:

The ship is expected to be out of service "for the remainder of the current fiscal year if not longer," the company said.




I bet it will get a new name also. I remember seeing Exxon Valdiz in San Diego getting a refit and a new name.

--------------------
Mike


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Sandy471
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: kneafseym]
      #1373271 - 01/16/12 11:48 AM (155.104.37.18)

Not only a new name but i would bet new owners. Carnival won't want to keep that ship in the fleet after all the publicity.

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Sandy471]
      #1373277 - 01/16/12 12:08 PM (71.101.41.196)

I haven't seen any talk about how or if they would salvage the ship. There are still about 10 people missing, I believe. It appears that the ship was just seriously off course?? On purpose?? Amazing.

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Southshore
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: swg]
      #1373368 - 01/16/12 04:53 PM (99.253.186.254)

Quote:

swg said:
In the newspaper article I read in the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning a Costa hostess said that they only have the muster drills every 15 days; therefore, depending on when passengers board they may miss the drills. Apparently the crew also has infrequent drills. Is that ever scary!


Interesting to note that Costa is owned by Carnival.





I am surprised to hear that muster drills are held only every 15 days. We sailed on Carnival a couple of years ago. The first evening on board we were called to a life boat drill. Later, passengers who came on board in Barbados also had their own drill the first evening on board.


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tomralnc
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373552 - 01/17/12 05:05 AM (66.87.2.43)

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/...l-1226246043110

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GTcapt
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Southshore]
      #1373584 - 01/17/12 08:50 AM (108.77.26.137)

We have been on a good number of Princess cruises, another one coming up next month. Princess is a Carnival line as well as a number of others. EVERY time we sailed, a muster drill was held hours before departing. The drill is taken VERY serious by the crew we see. I must admit, I have a drink in my hand at the time:)
Last June on a cruise, while at anchor, the crew held life boat drills, lowering the boats in the water and actually practicing retrieving objects from the water.
The question I have is, are there different sets of rules and regs for the different brands Carnival owns?

This incident seems to be caused by one single captain who should not have had the position and a cruise line brand with less attention to safety than the parent company has on other brands.


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: GTcapt]
      #1373592 - 01/17/12 09:25 AM (71.101.41.196)

I actually don't know if there are different rules for when lifeboat drills are supposed to take place, when you sail from the US, versus from overseas somewhere. I was very surprised to hear that many people had been on that ship for several days and had not had a lifeboat drill. The crew did not seem well trained in this instance, but to be fair to them, with the ship listing at the extreme angle that it was, it was a very tricky and dangerous evacuation. Many people reported hitting the side of the ship when the lifeboats were being lowered down. Extremely scary.

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tradewinds
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373610 - 01/17/12 10:15 AM (99.82.251.133)

The Today Show just reported that the ship was at a normal angle for a couple of hours, but they still delayed lowering the lifeboats. Probably, because they couldn't find the Captain!

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Unregistered




Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373615 - 01/17/12 10:35 AM (68.100.105.83)

The Captain of the ship was found in a life boat by the Coast Guard and was ordered to return to the ship to manage the evacuation. There was some interesting back and forth between the Captain and Coast Guard caught on tape.

http://news.yahoo.com/audio-cruise-captain-pleaded-not-reboard-ship-135859767.html


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: tradewinds]
      #1373628 - 01/17/12 10:47 AM (71.101.41.196)

Apparently other members of the crew started the abandon ship manouever before the captain gave the order, as according to what I read this morning, some of the lifeboats reached shore about 10 minutes after the bells sounded and there is no way that they could have loaded a boat and lowered it in 10 minutes. The captain apparently acted very badly in many respects.

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WBL_Couple
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373657 - 01/17/12 12:01 PM (71.3.253.63)

The American couple still missing is from our home town of White Bear Lake, MN (where our WBL Couple came from). So very tragic and sad for all of the families affected.

I don't understand the safety procedures. Every ship we have every been on has had the muster drill prior to the ship setting sail (and they were mandatory).


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bbuchanan
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373684 - 01/17/12 01:25 PM (97.115.238.250)

This is an extremely tragic incident which, according to all published reporting thus far, could have been avoided. More unfortunate is the potential impact to the cruise industry overall.

I rarely book Costa in Europe primarily due to the on board exoperience and demographics. After fourteen years, I find a majority of North American passengers are not looking for that experience overall. That said, Costa is a fine line given the disclaimers I offer my guests. "Manage Expectations" is my mantra!!

SOLAS and Coast Gruard rules with regard to drills are within the first 24 hours. Most, if not all, lines sailing from US ports complete this drill prior to leaving the pier. Many lines leaving from Europe do not practice the drill until the following morning. (I did do an MSC fam trip many years ago from Fort Lauderdale and the drill was performed the following morning at sea!)

Frankly, sometimes as I watch the "condition" of passengers attending the drill; I wonder if the next morning does not have some merit when passengers are rested and (hopefully) sober. I must admitt I sometimes "cheat" and do not attend the drill after 60+ cruises. However I take very seriously where our vests and lifeboat station are. I will add that we always take a small flashlight and will begin to take two and develop a personal plan if we are not together in an emergency.

I don't think anyone really knows what reactions will be in a real emergency. The drill is done at the dock without ocean movement, in broad daylight, with the ship upright and with all electrical operational. Those are not always the conditions in a real emergency sadly.

This will all play out over a lengthy time. The thing I keep in focus is I'm safer on the ship than driving to my local grocery store and plane tragedies have not yet stopped me from getting on a plane. That said, this is still a "black eye" on the industry to many.

--------------------
Best Regards,
Bonnie Buchanan,
Master Cruise Counselor
CruiseOne Tucson Arizona
www.cruiseone.com/bbuchanan

Edited by bbuchanan (01/17/12 01:37 PM)


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: bbuchanan]
      #1373687 - 01/17/12 01:28 PM (71.101.41.196)

Yes, I guess the most tragic thing is that it appears this whole incident was just plain human error. It will be interesting to hear the final outcome, but that is how it appears now. Sad.

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BarefootLife43
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373954 - 01/18/12 10:07 AM (98.247.9.144)

Most recent report shows the ship followed an identical and, apparently, authorized route last August. The article says the previous cruise probably came "within touching distance" of the rocks. That is scary. I'm sure there's more that will come out in the investigation. If this report is accurate, how do they come up with the routes?

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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: BarefootLife43]
      #1373956 - 01/18/12 10:19 AM (68.100.105.83)

Quote:

BarefootLife43 said:
Most recent report shows the ship followed an identical and, apparently, authorized route last August. The article says the previous cruise probably came "within touching distance" of the rocks. That is scary. I'm sure there's more that will come out in the investigation. If this report is accurate, how do they come up with the routes?




I read that also. If it is true, I wonder how accurate the charts are. The Captain did indicate that the charts showed plenty of depth. Of course at this point I don't think the skipper has alot of crediblity. We'll see.


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: BarefootLife43]
      #1373978 - 01/18/12 11:04 AM (71.101.41.196)

I haven't read anything today, but I had read previously that they had done an authorized deviation back in August, but that time they were not NEARLY as close as this time, was what I had read. I will see if that story has now changed. The captain has zero credibility, in my mind, after reading the transcripts of the discussions between he and the coast guard.

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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1373994 - 01/18/12 12:07 PM (68.100.105.83)

He told the Judge that he actually tripped into the life boat.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57361085/report-captain-claims-he-tripped-into-lifeboat/


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Unregistered




Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Anonymous]
      #1374077 - 01/18/12 04:19 PM (72.148.177.145)

This gives a little more meaning to staying well off shore during a night-time sail-by of the Mona Kea volcano on the Big Island of Hawaii. At the time we were a little disappointed by the view (or lack thereof). All is now forgiven.

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Flotsam
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: bbuchanan]
      #1374277 - 01/19/12 10:36 AM (71.82.71.108)

Quote:

bbuchanan said:
I don't think anyone really knows what reactions will be in a real emergency. The drill is done at the dock without ocean movement, in broad daylight, with the ship upright and with all electrical operational. Those are not always the conditions in a real emergency sadly.




Speaking as a life-long boater and former Safety and Emergency Response Manager for one of the largest chemical companies in the US, I've been a bit startled at the inadequacy of the emergency preparedness procedures I've observed on the two cruises I've been on. As noted above, drills conducted under ideal conditions are next to worthless for actually preparing passengers and crew to deal with real emergencies. That said, designing and carrying out effective and realistic drills would require a great deal of the passengers time as well as undoubtedly scaring the hell out of them in the process.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do as a passenger is to pay close attention to the information you are in fact given during the perfunctory drills, and then augment that with your own observation of the location of ALL emergency exits and stairways anywhere you may find yourself on board. Take that first afternoon to explore and give thought to alternate routes, etc. ALWAYS carry a small flashlight with you (the new LED lights are incredibly tiny but sufficiently bright) regardless of time of day, the interior of a ship can get really dark really fast when the power fails. If you're a boater and own a CO2 inflatable life vest, take it with you. It packs flat and allows you to grab it and evacuate as you see fit without having to find and secure one of the ship's vests.

These are just a few suggestions, you get the idea. Bottom line is, you cannot necessarily rely on the crew and/or ship's procedures to save you in a real emergency. You must be personally prepared, aware of your own surroundings at all times, and ready to improvise if the need arises. Just doing these things will drastically improve your chances of surviving a disaster such as this.

--------------------
Flotsam

Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.


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Twanger
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Flotsam]
      #1375438 - 01/22/12 03:10 PM (69.251.37.230)

What we do know is that the Captain failed to assess the situation properly, and subsequently reacted with cowardice, leaving 4000+ people to fend for themselves. Inexcusable. He should be held fully accountable for all of the deaths. There was plenty of time to evacuate the passengers, which he squandered while saving himself.

As far as the initial event - Running aground... also inexcusible in this day and age. The Med is one of the best charted bodies of water known to man. The excuse "hit an uncharted rock" doesn't cut it. As Captain one does not make excuses and blame the charts. One takes responsibility.


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Bare
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Twanger]
      #1375480 - 01/22/12 06:00 PM (206.53.82.192)

There is a reason there is only one Captain, they are NOT running a democracy, this is absolute power and responsibility. If a chart officer recommends a change - and it turns out to be incorrect, the captain who accepted the change is responsible - PERIOD. There is NO other person on the entire ship who is responsible for ANYTHING, it all goes to the one and only Captain.

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Temery
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Bare]
      #1377333 - 01/27/12 07:08 PM (216.31.145.20)

my thoughts and prayers for all of those affected by this tragedy =(

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jphart
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Costa route and speed led to the errors [Re: Temery]
      #1377594 - 01/28/12 04:57 PM (76.18.234.122)

As usual the "Lame-stream Media" has missed most of the facts in this case. (Took 'em a week to just properly pronounce Costa! Prior to the incident the media and 99 percent of Costa cruisers couldn't have identified Costa's parent company, and now the media leads the stories as a "Carnival ship")

Anyway, this looks very much like human error, and thus the blame has to sit with the captain.

This link has AIS data with a voice-over from an expert:
http://vimeo.com/gcaptain/costa-concordia

14 minutes long, but worth the effort if you want to know the facts.

Pay attention to the time-lines from the AIS data. Lots of time for an orderly muster.

Going too fast, turned too late, tried to adjust, hit the rock. Simple physics unfortunately.

--------------------
JPH
I spent my money on booze, broads, and boats...the rest I wasted.


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bbuchanan
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Twanger]
      #1378153 - 01/30/12 10:55 AM (97.115.238.250)

Interesting recreation.

Concordia Nautical Recreation

--------------------
Best Regards,
Bonnie Buchanan,
Master Cruise Counselor
CruiseOne Tucson Arizona
www.cruiseone.com/bbuchanan


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onahulvey
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Flotsam]
      #1420877 - 06/11/12 02:02 AM (64.79.103.206)

As noted above, drills conducted under ideal conditions are next to worthless for actually preparing passengers and crew to deal with real emergencies. That said, designing and carrying out effective and realistic drills would require a great deal of the passengers time as well as undoubtedly scaring the hell out of them in the process.

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PelicanPirate
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1433491 - 08/06/12 01:28 AM (107.9.2.207)

As a frequent Princess cruiser, we are accustomed to the drill shortly after leaving port and their usual recording "we have technology that precludes the need for a rollcall at the muster station". For our recent cruise out of Venice to Barcelona (a repeat journey), the drill came before port and they scanned each card at the muster station. For those folks who did not show up, they got a letter requiring them to show up at 7am the next morning at the muster station for life jacket training. We heard a few who were ticked. Good for Princess (also owned by Costa). I assume all lines are taking it quite serious as you never know.

--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1433510 - 08/06/12 08:22 AM (173.101.2.138)

That is surprising, but I think a good idea. . And Princess is not owned by Costa. I presume you meant to say that Princess was also owned by Carnival.

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