RichardKenner
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Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1433
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Quote:
nudee said:
What would you call it now, then? How is it being marketed?
There's no simple answer to the first question. The best answer to the second, though, is that it's being marketed in a way that's encouraging everybody to come and being somewhat vague as to exactly what it is they're coming to.
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Unregistered
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I would agree that this is the way it is being marketed, that is to say, poorly. For a nudist club to be open to the public, clothes-wearing public at that, makes no sense. As to what you would call it, I guess I would call it a kind of Motel 6 with benefits. It is open to the public and you don't have to be nude, but you can see naked people there and take pictures of them with your cell phone.
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AZCowboy
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Joined: 03/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Huh? Caliente Tampa has always been, or at least recently has been, a clothing optional resort, not a nudist club. Nudity was only required IN the pools. Cameras are still not permitted.
And how, exactly, is Caliente marketing this new policy or promotion? I see no reference to it on their website, and haven't seen any reference in their most recent email newsletters. Radio spots? Local TV ads? Is there any link online to their marketing efforts?
The only reference I can find is this TampaBay.com article that mentions Facebook. Really? That's it?
Is the only rule that is bent is to allow suits in the pools? In my one visit to Caliente over a year ago, they weren't enforcing this rule anyway.
The target seems right - trying to expose (pardon the pun) the younger crowd to the clothing optional environment. If it succeeds, it will be to the benefit of the members, improving the club's long term viability. If it fails, it would be close to "no harm, no foul". What's the big deal?
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RichardKenner
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Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1433
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Quote:
AZCowboy said:
Is there any link online to their marketing efforts?
No.
Quote:
Is the only rule that is bent is to allow suits in the pools?
No, the other "rule" being bent is that nudist resorts aren't places that people come to hook up for sex, but the promotions of swinger's parties there many weekends suggests otherwise.
Quote:
The target seems right - trying to expose (pardon the pun) the younger crowd to the clothing optional environment. If it succeeds, it will be to the benefit of the members, improving the club's long term viability. If it fails, it would be close to "no harm, no foul". What's the big deal?
Because of the way they're doing it. It was maybe a year ago, but Caliente was quoted in the local papers as claiming that "young people aren't nudists, but are swingers, so the only way to get younger people is to market to swingers". This causes lots of problems. For one, it affects the reputations of the homeowners there. For another, it creates a linkage between nudists and swingers which serves to further the popular perception that "nudism is all about sex". And it's likely not even true: swingers are also an older group.
The key thing here is that there's a feeling in the nudist community that Caliente Tampa is not interested in strengthening the traditional nudist community, but rather bringing people to their resort, whether or not it's in the best long-term interest of the nudist community (and hence Caliente itself).
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AZCowboy
Traveler
Joined: 03/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Richard, unless you can show me the connection, the "Skinny Dip Sundae" promotion/policy is not related to the "swinger" issue. That issue has been discussed in other threads and I am well aware of your concern and position.
The TampaBay.com article I linked sure doesn't reinforce any connection. Twice it quotes participants as stating it is not sexual, and also states that gawkers and those getting frisky will be reported to security. So unless you can show me the connection, this effort doesn't seem related to me - and much more in line with what a "traditional nudist community" resort should be doing as well.
Caliente Tampa is not in the business to strengthen the traditional nudist community, and whether or not it is in their interest to do so remains to be seen. It appears that the current management doesn't believe so, and that the previous management that did believe so wasn't so successful. Time will tell.
It's the lack of active marketing that seems most odd to me.
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Unregistered
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I beleive you have summed it up perfectly. But to respond to the previous post from "Cowboy" - the "big deal" is that the buyers of casitas, condos, villas, and home lots at Caliente were promised a nudist club where all members (including temporay members/visitors) would be practicing nudists - not a clothing optional club or a swingers club. The difference to me is a comfort factor. Everyone at a nudist club is a nudist. Nudists have always been happy to make allowances for first timers, visitors, or weather when it comes to clothing. But, not everyone at a clothing optional club is a nudist - in this case a discomfort factor for lack of a better word. Also, clothing optional has no meaning for Europeans, so you've already lost a share of the market.
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AZCowboy
Traveler
Joined: 03/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Are you suggesting that buyers of casitas, condos, villas, and home lots would be better served by a bankrupt resort operation? Because that was the path it was headed down, regardless of the promises that were made.
Caveat Emptor.
It may not be optimal, but it may be better than the next best alternative.
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RichardKenner
Traveler
Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1433
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Quote:
AZCowboy said:
Are you suggesting that buyers of casitas, condos, villas, and home lots would be better served by a bankrupt resort operation? Because that was the path it was headed down, regardless of the promises that were made.
As a property owner in another nudist resort, I refuse to accept the premise that the only choices that nudist resorts have is bankruptcy or marketing them as something other than family nudist resorts.
Although a large enough percentage of the business of Caliente (and Paradise Lakes) come from people who aren't traditional nudists, neither resort can survive if traditional nudism goes away. It's therefore (whether current management perceives it this way or not) in the long-term best interest of all nudist resorts to not take any actions that threaten nudism. Doing so may well be in their short-term interest, but not in their long-term interest.
In the case of Caliente, it may well be (as a number of people, including me, believed at the time it opened) that it's just too big and too fancy to be a viable nudist resort. But I don't think we're there yet.
However, if it does come down to the choice you suggest, don't you think that it would be best to ask the property owners rather than making the decisions for them?
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RichardKenner
Traveler
Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1433
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I want to make another point: bankruptcy is not necessarily a bad thing. All the major airlines have gone through it, some twice. GM emerged a much strongly company after bankruptcy. We had a nudist resort go bankrupt and a stronger one emerge from it (Desert Shadows -> Desert Sun). As a homeowner in Desert Sun, I was much happier to see a bankruptcy than some alternative.
Yes, a bankruptcy of a nudist resort requires some tricky navigation and there are things about Caliente that'll make that process harder, but there are also some additional things there that a bankruptcy could conceivably improve. I would not want to guess whether a bankruptcy of the resort would be better or worse for Caliente homeowners (of course, it would depend on the result of the bankruptcy) and certainly would not want to speculate on what their preference would be.
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AZCowboy
Traveler
Joined: 03/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Bankruptcy is definitely the worst outcome for the current owners and most debtors. The problem is that the homeowners are not the resort owners, so it should be no surprise that their interests might diverge. It wasn't the homeowners decision to make, so no one made the decision for them.
But, back to the specifics of the "Skinny Dip Sundae", I fail to see why this isn't consistent with the interests of a traditional nudist resort in trying to attract a new generation of future members. I don't see a tie to the "swinger marketing" concerns of (some/many) homeowners.
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