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StephKY
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Topless on Dawn beach??
      #1733195 - 05/18/17 08:26 PM (173.81.26.217)

Staying at Princess Heights near Dawn Beach in June. Is Dawn beach topless?
And if anyone has stayed at princess heights , what are your impressions about the property?
Thanks!


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jeepers
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: StephKY]
      #1733245 - 05/19/17 01:32 PM (74.14.14.223)

I don't believe there is anywhere on the Dutch side that topless is specifically allowed (some people do anyway) except for sunset bar & grill where if women went topless they got a free drink. Not sure if the rules have changed.

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Paul_Marion
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: jeepers]
      #1733260 - 05/19/17 02:59 PM (73.61.22.115)

Cupecoy.......

--------------------
Remember the Monolith
Paul & Marion


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: StephKY]
      #1733264 - 05/19/17 03:06 PM (47.192.9.53)

While there could be occasional topless use on Dawn, I certainly would not count on it at all. With regard to Princess Heights, suggest you might want to post a separate note about that.

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kim
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: StephKY]
      #1733265 - 05/19/17 03:24 PM (70.214.116.191)

I'm confused. I won't touch the sunset thing. As that I find was wicked tacky and now with the new sunset can't imagine. But I'm pretty sure you can go topless on any beach on the Dutch or French side. I would use your on discretion and see what's appropriate for the situation. Beach crowd can change daily. It's not an uncommon thing to see bathers topess but then put their top on to swim or go eat. But I'm pretty sure it is not "illegal" to be topless on the Dutch side. Unless I missed something?

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EdB
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: kim]
      #1733269 - 05/19/17 04:12 PM (99.71.170.50)

Honestly...I have seen topless just about at every beach on the island. Even at Maho...by the Sonesta and Royal Islander. It may not be prevalent...but every now and then someone decides to take off the top....and never have seen anyone tell them to cover up.

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DavidinChelseaMA
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: EdB]
      #1733296 - 05/19/17 07:02 PM (73.227.210.61)

Over at our timeshare, we've seen people go topless at Royal Islander's section of Maho bay.

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kccouple
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: DavidinChelseaMA]
      #1733299 - 05/19/17 08:20 PM (70.195.5.114)

You will have no problems going topless on any beach on St Martin...Sunday is family day at many beaches so you will see less topless on sunday

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transplantsxm
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: kccouple]
      #1733303 - 05/19/17 08:43 PM (107.147.98.9)

After living there 20 years, really don't agree with that. Sorry. Many are family beaches, especially on the Dutch Side, and topless is offensive to many locals. Look around and do what is appropriate.

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PelicanPirate
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: jeepers]
      #1733306 - 05/19/17 09:27 PM (98.29.235.208)

In our one time eating lunch before flight at Karacter there was more than a half dozen ladies spread out amongst their chair locations sans tops and of a wide age range.

Seen topless many times at Mullet, usually young.

Don't know about Dawn.

Those are my two data points.

--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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jeepers
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: kccouple]
      #1733307 - 05/19/17 09:27 PM (24.235.245.3)

I have seen security insist women put tops on at great bay beach.

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DavidinChelseaMA
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: jeepers]
      #1733310 - 05/20/17 05:44 AM (73.227.210.61)

Quote:

jeepers said:
I have seen security insist women put tops on at great bay beach.




At Great Bay, that makes sense. It's a cruise ship docking locale and has lots of newbies and families, etc. And it's location is less secluded feeling. Maho is similar in its "feel", and also has it's families and cruise ship crowds, but the Sunset beach bar has, and still does have, an effect on Maho's vibe, with that bar's history of topless women getting free drinks. (Even though I don't think that's still the way they do things over there, since their renovation.)


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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: DavidinChelseaMA]
      #1733312 - 05/20/17 06:20 AM (24.142.233.3)

There was at least two women sitting at the original bar back in March and were topless.

I never really understand the desire to go against local customs and laws. Just because some people choose to do something does not make it right, legal or acceptable. I have witnessed women being told to put their tops back on when on Anguila.

--------------------
J.D.


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SXMBND
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1733316 - 05/20/17 08:04 AM (75.143.19.148)

Quote:

ruralcarrier said:
There was at least two women sitting at the original bar back in March and were topless.

I never really understand the desire to go against local customs and laws. Just because some people choose to do something does not make it right, legal or acceptable. I have witnessed women being told to put their tops back on when on Anguila.





Like the nudity at Cupecoy.

Edited by SXMBND (05/20/17 08:05 AM)


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pat
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: SXMBND]
      #1733317 - 05/20/17 08:25 AM (75.133.113.202)

And then there's tradition.

We've been visiting the island annually since 1973 and while topless wasn't the norm on the Dutch beaches, Cupecoy was always the exception. There was NOTHING in this area and the beach access wasn't the easiest so almost anything was acceptable there from fully suited to buck naked and anything in between. It was a known tradition for that beach and everyone who might have something to say just looked the other way with regard to this one location. Basically, no harm, no foul. But you just knew, once the development of the area took place, people might agitate for changes in the tradition.

With regard to Sunset Beach Bar and 'drinking for free' - I've always wondered how that came about and whose palms were greased to allow it in the first place.

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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jeepers
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: SXMBND]
      #1733318 - 05/20/17 08:29 AM (24.235.245.3)

am I right that nudity is allowed at club Orient but because it's a public beach the powers that be could stop that if they want? I'm afraid that with people thinking they can do this everywhere that they will eventually say no nudity anywhere on the island??

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Maria_and_Steve
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: jeepers]
      #1733323 - 05/20/17 09:32 AM (97.118.151.171)

Club Orient is on the French Side, much different than the Dutch Side

Edited by Maria_and_Steve (05/20/17 01:45 PM)


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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: pat]
      #1733326 - 05/20/17 10:13 AM (67.86.221.25)

Quote:

pat said:
And then there's tradition.

We've been visiting the island annually since 1973 and while topless wasn't the norm on the Dutch beaches, Cupecoy was always the exception. There was NOTHING in this area and the beach access wasn't the easiest so almost anything was acceptable there from fully suited to buck naked and anything in between. It was a known tradition for that beach and everyone who might have something to say just looked the other way with regard to this one location. Basically, no harm, no foul. But you just knew, once the development of the area took place, people might agitate for changes in the tradition.

With regard to Sunset Beach Bar and 'drinking for free' - I've always wondered how that came about and whose palms were greased to allow it in the first place.




I was always under the impression that the "Topless Ladies Drink for Free" was Neil Rooney's idea, but I may be mistaken.

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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pat
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: RICKnGRACE_LI_NY]
      #1733330 - 05/20/17 11:13 AM (75.133.113.202)

To the best of my knowledge, you're not mistaken at all but I'd still like to know the 'how' of him bringing it into being. One more case of well greased palms, I'm sure?

This particular spot was always a great location long before the existence of SSBB, and likewise, the other end of the beach where the Boat Bar is today. Neil came up with a great gimmick that made someone a lot of money, I'm sure, as did so many of his entrepreneurial activities.

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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Paul_Marion
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: RICKnGRACE_LI_NY]
      #1733334 - 05/20/17 01:51 PM (73.61.22.126)

You are correct !!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
Remember the Monolith
Paul & Marion


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Paul_Marion
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: RICKnGRACE_LI_NY]
      #1733335 - 05/20/17 02:34 PM (73.61.22.126)

Some are still around.

Our favorite nude beaches pack in the mid 80's:

Cupecoy

Orient and a same section.

Dawn

Happy Bay

Tintamarri

Mullet (small section far from parking)

Ilet Pinel

Friars (once in while)

Gallion

La Belle Creole

Crand Case (the end)

Bay Rouge (1/3rd)

Terres Bas (on the rite)


That's all I can remember........

Some are still OK to go nude !!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
Remember the Monolith
Paul & Marion


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Snorkeller
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1733344 - 05/20/17 04:25 PM (96.238.181.82)

I once ran down the local law with regard to nudity on the french-side. Maybe someone here could do that for the dutch-side, as opposed to mere speculation. As I understand it, Dutch law (as in the Netherlands) basically permits female topless bathing at any beach unless it is posted or otherwise made known that it is not permitted. Is simple female toplessness on Sint Maarten beaches or private property open to the public (like the bar at Sunset) illegal? Maybe someone can cite to a law that makes it illegal. Until I see such a law, I will believe that it is not illegal. Appropriate under specific circumstances? You can decide for yourself. Maybe I am wrong and I will give Neil a laugh, but I cannot imagine that Neil or anyone else paid any bribes to serve free drinks to topless women.

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Bobinmobile
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Snorkeller]
      #1733346 - 05/20/17 04:29 PM (190.185.61.26)

Was at Karakter's today. Two females and several males topless. No issues.

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StephKY
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Bobinmobile]
      #1733369 - 05/20/17 08:34 PM (173.81.26.217)

Thanks everyone for the info!!!

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BobNLiz
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1733497 - 05/22/17 05:20 PM (74.119.86.70)

We have stayed at PH's and really enjoyed it... Very modern, clean and I enjoyed the Central Air. Nive views. Only negative if I recall correctly is there is no elevator.. We were on the third floor and had to climb.. Not so bad really

Liz


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weeks5051
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: StephKY]
      #1733509 - 05/22/17 07:45 PM (72.80.127.165)

I have seen at least one topless woman on every Beach I've gone to on both sides of the island. I haven't been to every beach but on Dawn I've seen a topless woman once in a while, usually away from the crowd though.

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SXMScubaman
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: weeks5051]
      #1733513 - 05/22/17 08:12 PM (201.220.7.58)

Tourist always push the envelope when they really should respect local laws and customs. That's all I got to say about this.

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Snorkeller
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1733537 - 05/23/17 10:24 AM (108.4.113.218)

That's fine to say, but tourists have no reason to believe that simple female toplessness on beaches on the dutch-side is illegal. I do not believe it is illegal, but I could be wrong and am willing to stand corrected if someone can point me to a "law."

With specific regard to Dawn, at least pre-Luis (a way I can remember the time period) topless was very common on Dawn - there were very few cruisers going there many if not most of tourists were European. Has the written law (that's positive law for you pre-law folks) changed since then? I doubt it. Has the vibe and what is common changed - sure.

(On the french-side, the written law did change in January 2006 with regard to nudity - but not as to toplessness, which always has been acceptable on all beaches on the french-side as a matter of law - but even on french-side an establishment can post a "No Topless" rule for its property, probably including an area of concessionaire rights, and have the right to have it enforced.)

Sorry, but it bothers me to see people making statements about the law who just are expressing personal opinions and do not really know what the law is. If you do not believe a woman should sunbath topless on certain beaches on dutch-side, you certainly are entitled to your opinion - but, I do not think it has anything to do with respect or lack of respect for local laws.


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marge
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Snorkeller]
      #1733548 - 05/23/17 11:51 AM (108.7.146.66)

Not so much ... "it has anything to do with respect or lack of respect for local laws".....as respect for local customs. The Dutch side is/was much more "conservative" than the French. I think of it as someone walking down the main street of their hometown in a bikini. Is it illegal? Probably not, but I'd bet it is not culturally accepted.
I have no law degree, but my personal opinion is that one must be respectful of the local culture. We are, after all, guests.

--------------------
marge


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GaKaye
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: marge]
      #1733550 - 05/23/17 12:00 PM (174.193.152.69)

Quote:

marge said:
... one must be respectful of the local culture. We are, after all, guests.




Exactly.


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sail2wind
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: GaKaye]
      #1733553 - 05/23/17 12:20 PM (184.166.21.62)

What an active thread, why are Americans so obsessed with boobs.

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tmsxmsails
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: sail2wind]
      #1733554 - 05/23/17 12:22 PM (71.10.242.21)

Quote:

sail2wind said:
What an active thread, why are Americans so obsessed with boobs.




Have you seen them? They are awesome!


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Snorkeller
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: marge]
      #1733559 - 05/23/17 01:06 PM (108.4.113.218)

In terms of people born on each side, I do not think that the dutch-side is more conservative than the french-side with regard to what people wear or do not wear at the beach. Indeed, it is the french-side that has passed a specific local law making nudity illegal on french-side beaches, with the only specific exception being the Club Orient beach. I am unaware of any similar local law on the dutch-side, although maybe there is one about which I know nothing. Although toplessness is not considered "nudity" necessarily, they are related topics.

So, if a potential tourist is planning a trip to Sint Maarten and looks here for information about whether she can sunbath topless at Dawn beach, or any beach dutch-side, what is the local custom to which you refer? Is there a set local custom for Dawn or any other beach that you can provide in advance, or does it depend on who is on the beach doing what on any particular day?

(I limit my remarks both explicit and implicit to beaches - I am not referring to main streets or anywhere off of a beach. With regard to home towns, it kind of depends on where your home town is, would you not agree?)


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sail2wind
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: tmsxmsails]
      #1733575 - 05/23/17 04:02 PM (71.211.223.127)

Quote:

tmsxmsails said:
Quote:

sail2wind said:
What an active thread, why are Americans so obsessed with boobs.




Have you seen them? They are awesome!





some


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SXMScubaman
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: sail2wind]
      #1733581 - 05/23/17 05:18 PM (201.220.7.58)

Time to close this one.

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Snorkeller
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Snorkeller]
      #1733647 - 05/24/17 10:54 AM (108.4.113.218)

The OP asked "Is Dawn beach topless?" Why is that not a fair and simple question? My answer is a simple "Yes" - Dawn is a topless beach and you should feel free to go topless there on the beach.

Other posts in this thread seem to say that maybe the answer is "No" because of "local custom" or "local culture." And, the need to "respect" "local custom" or "local culture."

Can those who post about "local custom" or "local culture" give a simple answer as to whether they believe Dawn beach, specifically Dawn beach, is topless or not?

If not a simple answer, is there a more complicated answer dependent on certain observable conditions - again, as to Dawn beach, specifically.


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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Snorkeller]
      #1733686 - 05/24/17 03:55 PM (24.209.195.61)

My simple answer based on 25+ years of travel to the island and 40+ trips and knowing many local residents would be, "NO".

Now, if people want to disrespect local customs and strip down and run around naked and/or topless all over the island, I guess they can have at it and see what happens.

--------------------
J.D.


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Snorkeller
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1733692 - 05/24/17 05:10 PM (108.4.113.218)

Is it possible for you to offer an opinion limited to whether Dawn beach is a topless beach or not?

No one has suggested or is suggesting that it is legal or acceptable to "strip down and run naked and/or topless all over the island."


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SXMScubaman
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Snorkeller]
      #1733698 - 05/24/17 05:57 PM (201.220.7.58)

It has been mentioned that it is not legal on the Dutch side but some people, mostly tourists, will do it anyway by ignoring the law. And that includes Dawn Beach.

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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Snorkeller]
      #1733703 - 05/24/17 06:30 PM (24.209.195.61)

Quote:

Snorkeller said:
Is it possible for you to offer an opinion limited to whether Dawn beach is a topless beach or not?

No one has suggested or is suggesting that it is legal or acceptable to "strip down and run naked and/or topless all over the island."




Did you miss this part?

My simple answer based on 25+ years of travel to the island and 40+ trips and knowing many local residents would be, "NO".

--------------------
J.D.


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Scotty
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1733734 - 05/24/17 10:41 PM (107.143.248.180)

I go topless all the time on the beach and no one seems to care.

--------------------


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bksm
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1733738 - 05/25/17 12:23 AM (47.197.13.187)

Quote:

SXMScubaman said:
It has been mentioned that it is not legal on the Dutch side but some people, mostly tourists, will do it anyway by ignoring the law. And that includes Dawn Beach.




It has been mentioned that being topless on St Maarten beaches is illegal, but not proven. Do you have a link to such law or a pdf or anything, or are you just citing hearsay?


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SXMbeacher
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: Scotty]
      #1733744 - 05/25/17 07:43 AM (76.178.251.99)

Exactly, me too! LOL

--------------------
Life's a beach!




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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: Topless on Dawn beach?? [Re: bksm]
      #1733745 - 05/25/17 08:13 AM (205.197.242.166)

People seem to equate toplessness with full nudity, when it is obviously not the same. There is NOT any law against being topless, on either side of the island. If the question is, is it common on the Dutch side, particularly on Dawn Beach, the answer is probably "no". Is it seen there? Yes. All in all, not a big deal, one way or another. This one is done.

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