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KGB
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Joined: 05/14/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PKwx]
      #1745882 - 09/14/17 01:01 AM (68.150.82.116)

And at the same time - if you are looking to buy a property in Sxm - right now would be the perfect time!

--------------------
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"


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sxmmartini
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Joined: 04/16/05
Posts: 5573
Loc: Amityville, New York
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PKwx]
      #1745922 - 09/14/17 08:52 AM (24.47.167.148)

Quote:

PKwx said:
3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...




IMHO I rebuilt in 1995 with no Kooyman, Ace, Cost you Less etc. There is so much skilled labor on SXM that anyone can get repairs done without delay.

--------------------


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pat
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Joined: 04/18/01
Posts: 11264
Loc: Brookfield, CT.
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745944 - 09/14/17 09:45 AM (75.133.113.202)

Quote:

sxmmartini said:
Quote:

PKwx said:
3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...




IMHO I rebuilt in 1995 with no Kooyman, Ace, Cost you Less etc. There is so much skilled labor on SXM that anyone can get repairs done without delay.




Wendy,

With all due respect, and not to be argumentative, but in absolute honesty I think your comment is very misleading. You may not have had all the great means of purchasing materials available today when they are up and reopen for business - I'll concede that point, but we're not talking about anyone or someone here. We're talking about almost EVERYONE being in need of one kind of repair or another right up to and including complete reconstruction from the ground up.

And quite truthfully, my DH has been in the construction field since he was sixteen and I've been around it most of my life, too. We've seen some of what passes for good construction on the island and we just shake our heads. IMHO, and that's what this is - purely MY OPINION - if more attention was paid to the mechanics and ability levels of some of the island tradesmen and what they're doing, you probably wouldn't have nearly as much destruction as we're seeing island wide.

I'm not trying to be critical of anyone or anything specifically, but I have to say, just because you own a hammer and a saw, that doesn't mean you're a qualified builder. As I said somewhere earlier, Rome wasn't built in a day and the island, as much as we wish it was so, will not be rebuilt in a few months and probably not totally rebuilt even in a year. Just MHO!

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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sxmmartini
Traveler


Joined: 04/16/05
Posts: 5573
Loc: Amityville, New York
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: pat]
      #1745965 - 09/14/17 11:12 AM (24.47.167.148)

Quote:

pat said:
Quote:

sxmmartini said:
Quote:

PKwx said:
3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...




IMHO I rebuilt in 1995 with no Kooyman, Ace, Cost you Less etc. There is so much skilled labor on SXM that anyone can get repairs done without delay.




Wendy,

With all due respect, and not to be argumentative, but in absolute honesty I think your comment is very misleading. You may not have had all the great means of purchasing materials available today when they are up and reopen for business - I'll concede that point, but we're not talking about anyone or someone here. We're talking about almost EVERYONE being in need of one kind of repair or another right up to and including complete reconstruction from the ground up.

And quite truthfully, my DH has been in the construction field since he was sixteen and I've been around it most of my life, too. We've seen some of what passes for good construction on the island and we just shake our heads. IMHO, and that's what this is - purely MY OPINION - if more attention was paid to the mechanics and ability levels of some of the island tradesmen and what they're doing, you probably wouldn't have nearly as much destruction as we're seeing island wide.

I'm not trying to be critical of anyone or anything specifically, but I have to say, just because you own a hammer and a saw, that doesn't mean you're a qualified builder. As I said somewhere earlier, Rome wasn't built in a day and the island, as much as we wish it was so, will not be rebuilt in a few months and probably not totally rebuilt even in a year. Just MHO!




Pat,

With all due respect, and not to be argumentative, but I work for Commercial Roofing and Sheet Metal (zinc) in NYC. I am the office Manager. Sincerely, Wendy

--------------------


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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
Traveler


Joined: 04/21/01
Posts: 1409
Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745996 - 09/14/17 12:31 PM (63.143.200.109)

Not to be argumentative but being an office manager in the construction field vs actually doing construction is like comparing apples and oranges. Not to put down what you know but there is a difference.

That being said, as we have all traveled around the island you can she that much of the construction is shoddy. Not saying your home is, but I think Pat has a point about the construction in general

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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mprevo
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Joined: 01/27/14
Posts: 183
Loc: Michigan
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1746008 - 09/14/17 01:13 PM (50.36.99.98)

I think that I would agree with Pat a little more on this subject, but please let me tell you why.

I don’t think that there is any one specific time or if any of us really have an idea when it will be a good time to return. I think that it will be a different amount of time for each different individual. Each one of us looks for something different when we arrive. Some want a luxury resort with all of the amenities. Some want a simple room with a beach view, some would be happy in a tent if they had access to a beach. Some need fancy restaurants with a wonderful chef. Some just want ribs cooked over a barrel. Each one of these items would have a different construction schedule and time frame.

Also, as you read on please realize that I own a construction company that has been in business 60 years. I have personally been in the Construction Industry for 25 years. We build both commercial residential projects so I have a pretty good understanding of how the system works around here. Granted things may be different in the islands but much will be the same.

In my opinion, the ones that will rebuild first and fastest will be the ones with cash that can afford to finance the rebuild. If the Owners have to involve the insurance companies (and I am speaking with lots of experience on this subject) then this will slow the process down. Insurance companies require bids (sometimes more than one) and back-up documentation, all of which take time and manpower to prepare. The last ones to rebuild will be the ones with no insurance and/or limited finances.

Another thing to keep in mind is the Law of Supply and Demand. We deal with this on a daily basis. With so much devastation throughout the Caribbean (not only St Martin) there is going to be a huge demand for building materials throughout the Caribbean and in the Southern USA for that matter. What this means to anyone trying to build (or rebuild) is that the price of building materials is going to escalate. This escalation will cause problems with the people with limited finances as well as the insurance companies. In Addition, there is always a difference in what the Insurance Companies are willing to pay vs what the actual construction costs are. This will again slow the process down while it is sorted out.

Now we can talk about the labor force. Granted there will be a lot of people looking for work but not everyone can do construction. Every crew is going to need at least one or two seasoned workers to lead them. As these seasoned workers get scooped up the labor force will be saturated with unskilled laborers, which can cause as much bad as good when it comes to construction schedules and the amount of work a company can handle. Not to mention that there could very well could be a big demand for the skilled laborers (remember what the Law of Supply and Demand does to cost).

Between the new cost for materials and labor the construction costs are going to rise for a while. The reality of the situation is that those with the cash are going to be the ones that rebuild first and will probably get the best deals before the cost start to rise. The next few months after that will be a struggle for some to get their projects done trying to get materials and labor at a cost they can afford.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that it will quite a while before we see any kind of assemblage of finished products. You will see small pockets of competed projects here and there, from those with the cash. You will also see lots of folks waiting in line to be next. Areas such as Grand Case, Orient, etc. that received so much devastation will take time to get back to its former glory. I personally cancelled my vacation in February of 2018 because I am fairly confident that the island will need more time that that to heal.

So, in answer to the question when is a “Realistic time frame to return”, it can really only be answered by you and what do require when you return to St Martin?

--------------------
***********************************************

We will back when the island is ready for us!!

This is going to be a long wait, but the reward at the end will be worth it.


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pat
Traveler


Joined: 04/18/01
Posts: 11264
Loc: Brookfield, CT.
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746018 - 09/14/17 01:36 PM (75.133.113.202)

What an awesome response. Thank you for your expertise and your eloquence.

We're in the process of trying to regroup over several trips we had already booked - very sad to think of a year without St. Maarten but if that's what it is, c'est la vie? And believe me, please, I don't say that casually.

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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tonydead
Traveler


Joined: 08/06/10
Posts: 34
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: pat]
      #1746029 - 09/14/17 02:01 PM (108.171.130.189)

Ribs cooked over a barrel is good enough for me!

Really the only point Wendy was making that generated all this disagreement is the amount of skilled labor. I'd imagine that with all the high rise condos, resorts and the bridge being built in the last 5 or 6 years there is more skilled labor on SXM than ever before.


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Ritchard
Traveler


Joined: 01/27/08
Posts: 367
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: tonydead]
      #1746039 - 09/14/17 02:25 PM (99.254.160.177)

Quote:

tonydead said:
Ribs cooked over a barrel is good enough for me!





Me too, when to we leave?

Saint Martin Rentals posted on Facebook earlier :

Hi everyone, we've survived Irma ! Our office is badly damaged but we will get there. Everyone on island is hands on deck to get us back in shape.
However, to be realistic, we'll be contacting all our September, October and November guests to postpone their vacation here with us at Orient Beach, Grand-Case and Nettlé Bay. Though the bulk of our homes will be back on track, we are not sure, you'll be able to experience the full range of what Saint-Martin has to offer.
See you all at Christmas!

Makes me think we may get our Feb vacation after all. It won't be the same, but it may be a bit of an adventure instead. I hope there's some way we can be of help for part of our stay.

--------------------



_______________________
Want to make a difference? Visit Kiva.org.

Edited by Ritchard (09/14/17 02:28 PM)


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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
Traveler


Joined: 04/21/01
Posts: 1409
Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746050 - 09/14/17 02:46 PM (67.86.221.25)



That was one heck of a post. The insight you bring, with the knowledge you have and the common sense you employ, should enlighten many on this Board.

Thank you

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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