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whitesands
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Realistic time frame to return
      #1745512 - 09/12/17 08:01 PM (97.92.5.99)

My heart aches for our paradise. When are you planning on returning to the island, Either as and owner or not, 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? or more? I understand they are dependent on our tourism income, but when , realistically, will the be ready.

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GaKaye
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745516 - 09/12/17 08:26 PM (174.194.11.22)

It's not a difficult decision for us, as we own three fixed weeks at La Vista Beach...47, 48, and 49. No way the island will be ready for us this year, but we'll definitely return in November, 2018.

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sxmParrotfish
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745518 - 09/12/17 08:33 PM (98.4.208.192)

The past several years I have been visiting SXM in May and November. I haven't rescheduled November yet, but am fully expecting that I will have to. None of us know at this point when SXM will be ready for visitors again. I am currently planning that the next time I go, it will be primarily with the purpose of helping the cleanup / rebuild in some way. It's just too early to contact anyone on the island about doing so at this time. I know that I cannot abandon the island that I love, and therefore will return as soon as possible.

--------------------
Formerly " Parrotfish" approx join date .. sometime in 2001
SXM lover since 1999...


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foreversxm
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmParrotfish]
      #1745537 - 09/12/17 09:38 PM (209.44.132.182)

We go for the friendly people, the wonderful beaches, the warm sun and the great food. All of that is still there now and every day things will get better and better. I have heard from friends on the Island and they are working hard. To me 60 days and you will see a function Island. This is wait and see....don't bail out on them to soon. The hotels and restaurants that are open by high season will be busy!

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Brubovol
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: foreversxm]
      #1745543 - 09/12/17 10:11 PM (73.120.65.183)

Are you delusional??!!! The damage on the island and the infrastructure is catastrophic!! Years before rebuild!!!!!!

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sxmParrotfish
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: foreversxm]
      #1745547 - 09/12/17 10:19 PM (98.4.208.192)

The topic said realistic, and in response to forevers post I don't believe the 2017 season is realistic at all . If the airport was functioning in 60 days that would be good progress. While it appears rebuild plans are in place, the governments primary focus on both sides is ( as it should be) aid to its citizens. Infrastructure must be repaired and rebuilt, and this will take time. Returning to the island as a visitor in 2017 just isn't going to be reality.

--------------------
Formerly " Parrotfish" approx join date .. sometime in 2001
SXM lover since 1999...


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foreversxm
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: Brubovol]
      #1745548 - 09/12/17 10:26 PM (209.44.132.182)

lol NO Sure its bad but I am not saying rebuild it ALL! I am saying enough business back on the way and open by high season. They have to eat you know. I am not part of the doomsday crowd and I have seen how they rebuilt from Hurricane Luis in 1995. Lots of died hard types out there and Yes, the few ones that get open will be busy come January.

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SXMScubaman
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: foreversxm]
      #1745552 - 09/12/17 10:41 PM (24.22.151.53)

I look for high season, resorts to be about 50% ready and maybe 10-20% of the restaurants to be operational. %50-70% of Front St businesses might be ready but the infrastructure will take a long time to put back together before this can happen. This can not happen by High season by any means. Heck before any repairs can take place you have to have materials, work force and electricity for the workers tools to operate.
Resorts might be able to get things done quicker than businesses that have the insurance and means but St Maarten will take years to be fully recovered.
We are still planning on being there this May but don't expect to much.


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Cathyg
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1745555 - 09/12/17 10:57 PM (97.73.80.136)

we are hoping for April 2019

is it realistic? God i hope so


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Ted_n_Jan
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: Cathyg]
      #1745560 - 09/12/17 11:27 PM (66.30.194.11)

We stay on the French side, at LaPlaya, right on Orient.

Just getting the roads cleared, the debris removed and the telephone/electrical poles back up will be a major undertaking.

A lot will depend on things like how much money France is willing to sink into the island, how much insurance, if any, the business owners have etc.

Since we particularly like smaller restaurants, there is good chance that many of our favorites simply have won't have the funds.

My guess is late 2018 or early 2019 before things are passably functional. (We have been visiting for over 20 years and have reached the age where our definition of "passably functional" is somewhat higher than it once was. )

I would be thrilled to be wrong on my time frame.


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DavidinChelseaMA
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: Ted_n_Jan]
      #1745561 - 09/12/17 11:30 PM (24.34.189.240)

October 2019...

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sxmmartini
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745566 - 09/12/17 11:41 PM (24.47.167.148)

Quote:

whitesands said:
My heart aches for our paradise. When are you planning on returning to the island, Either as and owner or not, 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? or more? I understand they are dependent on our tourism income, but when , realistically, will the be ready.




March 2018

--------------------


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sugarae
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745577 - 09/13/17 06:54 AM (72.71.236.7)

We hope to be able to return in March of 2018. All we need are a room, food, sun, sea and sand ! I was there in March 1996.

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PelicanPirate
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745591 - 09/13/17 08:18 AM (24.43.241.83)

The earliest i can envision any amount of hotels being able accept reservations and airlines having enough the load factor to keep flights regularly scheduled would be 1 year from now. October 2018. More likely years later to see anything like we are accustomed to. Good to be in the roof replacement business.

I fully expect our first return to the island will be on a cruise ship for the day, hopefully renting chairs from rosie on mullet or a yellow umbrella on orient and a drink from willie. Or both. Hope they are both ok.

If we enjoy that cruise visit, we will be on another boat very soon or make a reservation somewhere we have seen.

I hate to say it, but I also see alot of the current crop of american/french residents and business entrepreneurs taking the insurance check and moving back to Small town USA or France and putting SXM paradise behind them. Im sure they will visit, just wont own or work on island.

I dont think all grasp what that storm was like to endure.

I think folks will leave everytime a hurricane is heading near, no no more riding out the storm in the condo. It will take another 20 years of cream puff storms to lure folks to "riding it out"

--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745593 - 09/13/17 08:24 AM (24.209.195.61)

Quote:

I hate to say it, but I also see alot of the current crop of american/french residents and business entrepreneurs taking the insurance check and moving back to Small town USA or France and putting SXM paradise behind them. Im sure they will visit, just wont own or work on island.




You are assuming they had insurance. Trust me, not everyone has insurance. Why do you think some individuals/businesses are starting their own GoFundMe requests?

--------------------
J.D.


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Ted_n_Jan
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745603 - 09/13/17 08:50 AM (66.30.194.11)

I've been thinking about the same general idea.

We'll see how it plays out and go from there.


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PelicanPirate
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1745604 - 09/13/17 08:51 AM (24.43.241.83)

quite the opposite, i guess i assumed any french/american/dutch transplant bright enough to buy a condo/home or run a business dwelling would have some insurance......and even they would be having second thoughts of continuing behind demolition or immediate sale after repair

Those french/american/dutch without insurance....thats tough luck and i cant imagine them doing thta twice

That said, many have insurance and will toil to rebuild paradise and hope that anothenrcat 5 doesnt happen again for another 22 years........

Ill add, the timeshare folks might be looking at big assessments i would guess.......not sure how that works..........i can see alot of people fleeing that market


Others will replace them over time. Owners, entrepreneurs, and timeshare owners........too pretty a place not to like it........

As for gofundme requests, thats a personal call,but not sure id pump,money into an undefined request fromsomeone imdont know.

Cash has a strange effect on people ans thats why accountants usually like the two person rule to ensure thentheft has an accomplice.





--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic

Edited by PelicanPirate (09/13/17 08:55 AM)


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sxmmartini
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745609 - 09/13/17 09:00 AM (24.47.167.148)

My neighbor self insured his villa in SXM. He took a chance and deposited his money in a bank for the villa. 22 years later at 5k per year is 110k.

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thebowl
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745611 - 09/13/17 09:02 AM (107.1.119.41)

It's too soon to do anything besides guess at the answer to that question. This is unprecedented in terms of the degree of damage, and we live in a changing world, when it comes to international cooperation. There is simply no way to see into the future.

I have week 9 at Royal Palm, which is regatta weekend. Will they be ready for me? I have already stated that I will go back as soon as I am comfortable that I won't be in the way. I don't need everything back to normal, which is never going to happen, in any event.

One of two things will happen. Either it will become clear in the next month or so that March 2018 is out of the question (maybe Royal Palm will make that decision for me), or I may wind up deciding at the last minute to go or not. Short of RP being closed, I'm not even clear on how I will know what the right answer is, although this message board will play a role, in terms of providing a picture of how things are progressing.


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PelicanPirate
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745614 - 09/13/17 09:04 AM (24.43.241.83)

Is that enough?

--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745615 - 09/13/17 09:04 AM (24.209.195.61)

Self-insured (and depositing the $$) is one thing. Not having insurance, starting your own GoFundMe account due to you choosing NOT to buy insurance on your business and asking others to finance you is another.

--------------------
J.D.


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Ritchard
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745622 - 09/13/17 09:20 AM (70.54.142.249)

We're scheduled for mid feb, and I vacillate between believing it's possible to have lodgings and believing it's impossible. I also vacillate between wishing to go and spend my tourist dollars, and not wanting to be either in the way, or be utterly disheartened by the still-evident disaster.

A more noble version of me says go and help in any way you can. I have booked travel for me, my wife, and my two strapping sons. Surely we could all be of use?

--------------------



_______________________
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jaxon60
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1745623 - 09/13/17 09:22 AM (172.218.171.127)

On the French side, there is the Natural Disaster Insurance. According to an article on St Martin's Week FB page, it does cover wind/storm damage for territories like St Martin.

According to that article it should take 2 to 3 months to pay out.

--------------------
[url=https://www.TickerFactory.com/]

[/url]


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PelicanPirate
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: jaxon60]
      #1745628 - 09/13/17 09:28 AM (24.43.241.83)

What do they get.......is that a free govt insurance......if i have a shack do i get a new shack, or a better building? if inhave a 10 bedroom villa do i get a new one or am i limited to basic shack payout.

Just using ref shack for extremes.

If i get a new 10'room villa, good deal.

--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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CJIMI
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745651 - 09/13/17 10:34 AM (71.225.66.182)

We were scheduled to return next March. Then, I saw a photo of the Blue Bay Beach Hotel, in yesterday's edition of the New York Times. Complete devastation. I cannot imagine that they will be up and running by next March. I called AA last night, and was able to cancel. I cannot contact the hotel. We re-booked for a trip to Martinique, on Norwegian Air, out of JFK.

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Tom
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745669 - 09/13/17 11:08 AM (98.235.97.123)

Everything at this point is speculation. Many of you do not remember Luis. Likely the area of the island and the degree of damage will dictate how quickly a resort or restaurant rebuilds and is ready for business. We decided to go on our vacation a little more than 3 months after Luis. There were fewer buildings on the island at that time but I recall almost all losing their roofs. Large resorts like Dawn Beach and Divi Little were virtually destroyed. And, yes some people lost everything because of the storm and others lost because some resort owners/managers took TS and or insurance $ and left the island. Same immediate problems; no electric, no water, debris everywhere. That year we sometimes did not have hot water and or air conditioning. Some restaurants were open, others were not ready yet.
We had a great vacation. Glass half empty or half full?


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EdB
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745687 - 09/13/17 11:49 AM (170.250.49.21)

Hoping beyond hope....March 2018.

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pat
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: EdB]
      #1745696 - 09/13/17 12:17 PM (75.133.113.202)

Likewise, Ed. I hope as the time draws nearer we may hear good news, but in absolute honesty, I am not terribly optimistic. The pictures we're seeing of the entire island are heart-breaking, for sure.

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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VitaMan
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: EdB]
      #1745697 - 09/13/17 12:19 PM (71.206.204.8)

I don't think that's necessarily so unrealistic. I'm sure the gov'ts on the island want to salvage as much of the High Season as possible, so they'll be working on debris removal, general clean-up, and infrastructure around the clock. Also, well-funded property owners of hotels, resorts, condo developments, villas, and some restaurants and other shops will get moving quickly as well. The idea is to get people back working as quickly as possible. Sure, there will still be plenty of visual evidence of the remnants of the hurricane on display for all to see, but at least the island will be open for business. I can see tourist traffic starting to trickle back in March or April. Once the tourists start to return, then smaller businesses will also start to re-open.

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tonydead
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: VitaMan]
      #1745702 - 09/13/17 12:30 PM (108.171.130.187)

Call me crazy, but, I haven't given up hope (yet) for our trip planned for November. The company we rent our secret little villa from has confirmed it did not sustain any structural damage to the building (porch and deck gone) so lodging wouldn't be an issue.

Availability of food and safety, who knows?

We should probably come to grips that our plans for a wedding are gone, but, if it is safe to travel we will gladly go spend tourist money as soon as we can to help get things back to normal.

The company we rent our villa from has cancelled all reservations for October and will inform us on November reservations by September 30th. And so on for each month after that.


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SandS
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745706 - 09/13/17 12:52 PM (71.10.229.24)

I would love to go back in Feb. It may even be possible because some of the buildings at SBR look like they were in pretty good shape but do I want to? Will there be roads, rental cars, restaurants? Do I want to be at a resort surrounded by damage, Flamingo & La Vista looked pretty bad. Will it be safe? My heart aches for the residents whose livelihood depends on tourism but safety comes first.

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KGB
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: tonydead]
      #1745709 - 09/13/17 01:03 PM (68.150.82.116)

We were booked for the end of March 2018 but I emailed to cancel - haven't heard back yet from the property owner...
Here are my 2 cents: I don't think the island gonna be ready for the winter 2017-2018 ceason. First of all, the majority of the supplies to the island including all the building materials are coming from Florida, and Florida right now needs them all to rebuild, so as Huston...
Second, the rebuilding will take lots of manpower to do it all at once kinda thing... I don't think that the island has enough human resources and qualified workers for that.
And the last and probably the most important thing to me is safety. I'm afraid that coming too early will put you in danger of been targeted by criminals. They may declare an "open ceason" on tourists just because we represent such an easy target.
Those are just my thought - you don't have to agree with me.

--------------------
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"


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Ritchard
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: KGB]
      #1745730 - 09/13/17 01:52 PM (99.254.160.177)

I am not worried about personal safety should we be able to go in Feb. I would think that if the governments wish to push for getting the tourist traffic returning this upcoming high season, they'll have extra security personnel in place to make sure there are no safety issues popping up to damage the reputation of the place.

--------------------



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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: KGB]
      #1745752 - 09/13/17 02:46 PM (67.86.221.25)

Quote:

KGB said:
We were booked for the end of March 2018 but I emailed to cancel - haven't heard back yet from the property owner...
Here are my 2 cents: I don't think the island gonna be ready for the winter 2017-2018 ceason. First of all, the majority of the supplies to the island including all the building materials are coming from Florida, and Florida right now needs them all to rebuild, so as Huston...
Second, the rebuilding will take lots of manpower to do it all at once kinda thing... I don't think that the island has enough human resources and qualified workers for that.
And the last and probably the most important thing to me is safety. I'm afraid that coming too early will put you in danger of been targeted by criminals. They may declare an "open ceason" on tourists just because we represent such an easy target.
Those are just my thought - you don't have to agree with me.




To your second point I agree. And we can't forget that that many other Islands, Barbuda, St Bart's, Anguilla, and the BVIs and the USVIs are going to need manpower also. I fear a slow rebuild.

To your third point I am afraid that the amount of lawlessness may be prolonged by the slow rebuild. I may be wrong and some please feel free to correct me, but I do not recall similar stories after Luis. If the rebuild is slow and the tourism rebound is slow, I am fearful the the "looters" may prey upon the early returners. To be honest there has not been a lot of "policeing" by either side of late.

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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johnhill
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: whitesands]
      #1745785 - 09/13/17 04:37 PM (67.248.53.222)

I have been listening to Laser 101 radio day after day and today they reported that electrical power has been restored in numerous areas of the island. Also encouraging to hear that many volunteers and paid staff are working to clean up Phillipsburg. Today Laser announced a cleanup at the airport is continuing and this includes paid and volunteer staff. Gasoline stations are opening with a limit of us $20 or 36 guilders cash. Laser also announces area cleanups and areas where volunteers are needed. I am more optimistic today than yesterday-areas of the island will open for high season!!!!

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kccouple
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: Ted_n_Jan]
      #1745789 - 09/13/17 04:49 PM (70.195.7.8)

This is not the USA.It will take a long long time.Every single thing they need has to be imported. I would not being worrying about my vacation,these people don't even have running water.The electric company has trouble providing service in good weather and I believe they are the same people that provide water in the Dutch side.

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Hdrdr911
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: kccouple]
      #1745816 - 09/13/17 07:02 PM (66.31.253.152)

It will depend completely on the French and Dutch governments and thier commitment to the citizens of the island. Infrastructure is critical and must be the first priority of the restoration. Macrons unrealistic move away from tourism will be an impediment to reconstruction.

--------------------
If the phone doesn't ring .... it's me


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PelicanPirate
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: Hdrdr911]
      #1745823 - 09/13/17 07:10 PM (24.43.241.83)

He also mentioned that he would help residents who wanted to leave the island altogether..........diversify their geography

--------------------
Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people.
Jack Dawson - Movie Titanic


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320sycamore
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745863 - 09/13/17 10:05 PM (71.89.12.224)

March, 2018 and with order restored, basic infrastructure functioning, local people working and progress underway - then the least affected tourist businesses will start operating again
But that is not going to happen unless the Dutch and French governments take good care of this bigtime humanitarian crisis right now.


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PKwx
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PelicanPirate]
      #1745866 - 09/13/17 10:18 PM (69.249.242.189)

3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...


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KGB
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PKwx]
      #1745882 - 09/14/17 01:01 AM (68.150.82.116)

And at the same time - if you are looking to buy a property in Sxm - right now would be the perfect time!

--------------------
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"


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sxmmartini
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: PKwx]
      #1745922 - 09/14/17 08:52 AM (24.47.167.148)

Quote:

PKwx said:
3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...




IMHO I rebuilt in 1995 with no Kooyman, Ace, Cost you Less etc. There is so much skilled labor on SXM that anyone can get repairs done without delay.

--------------------


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pat
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745944 - 09/14/17 09:45 AM (75.133.113.202)

Quote:

sxmmartini said:
Quote:

PKwx said:
3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...




IMHO I rebuilt in 1995 with no Kooyman, Ace, Cost you Less etc. There is so much skilled labor on SXM that anyone can get repairs done without delay.




Wendy,

With all due respect, and not to be argumentative, but in absolute honesty I think your comment is very misleading. You may not have had all the great means of purchasing materials available today when they are up and reopen for business - I'll concede that point, but we're not talking about anyone or someone here. We're talking about almost EVERYONE being in need of one kind of repair or another right up to and including complete reconstruction from the ground up.

And quite truthfully, my DH has been in the construction field since he was sixteen and I've been around it most of my life, too. We've seen some of what passes for good construction on the island and we just shake our heads. IMHO, and that's what this is - purely MY OPINION - if more attention was paid to the mechanics and ability levels of some of the island tradesmen and what they're doing, you probably wouldn't have nearly as much destruction as we're seeing island wide.

I'm not trying to be critical of anyone or anything specifically, but I have to say, just because you own a hammer and a saw, that doesn't mean you're a qualified builder. As I said somewhere earlier, Rome wasn't built in a day and the island, as much as we wish it was so, will not be rebuilt in a few months and probably not totally rebuilt even in a year. Just MHO!

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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sxmmartini
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: pat]
      #1745965 - 09/14/17 11:12 AM (24.47.167.148)

Quote:

pat said:
Quote:

sxmmartini said:
Quote:

PKwx said:
3-4 years and not another 10 till its fully back. Much of the buildup has occurred since Louis plus more. It took 22 to get this this point it's not going to get rebuilt overnight. Lack of skilled labor, between all the damage in the Island and the US...the trades are going to be plenty busy...unless it comes from Europe. Lots of folks will give up and leave but others will see it as a opertunity and build. All this will take a long time. How many year did it take Dawn Beach to be rebuilt and Mullet to be torn down after Louis? Get my point. St Martin will never be the same, it will be different. Some will like it more and others will not.

Now look at the other side...It will be like going to St Martin 25 years ago...for awhile...cozy beach bar shacks..no mega bars on OB...Lolos once agin cooking out of drums...




IMHO I rebuilt in 1995 with no Kooyman, Ace, Cost you Less etc. There is so much skilled labor on SXM that anyone can get repairs done without delay.




Wendy,

With all due respect, and not to be argumentative, but in absolute honesty I think your comment is very misleading. You may not have had all the great means of purchasing materials available today when they are up and reopen for business - I'll concede that point, but we're not talking about anyone or someone here. We're talking about almost EVERYONE being in need of one kind of repair or another right up to and including complete reconstruction from the ground up.

And quite truthfully, my DH has been in the construction field since he was sixteen and I've been around it most of my life, too. We've seen some of what passes for good construction on the island and we just shake our heads. IMHO, and that's what this is - purely MY OPINION - if more attention was paid to the mechanics and ability levels of some of the island tradesmen and what they're doing, you probably wouldn't have nearly as much destruction as we're seeing island wide.

I'm not trying to be critical of anyone or anything specifically, but I have to say, just because you own a hammer and a saw, that doesn't mean you're a qualified builder. As I said somewhere earlier, Rome wasn't built in a day and the island, as much as we wish it was so, will not be rebuilt in a few months and probably not totally rebuilt even in a year. Just MHO!




Pat,

With all due respect, and not to be argumentative, but I work for Commercial Roofing and Sheet Metal (zinc) in NYC. I am the office Manager. Sincerely, Wendy

--------------------


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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1745996 - 09/14/17 12:31 PM (63.143.200.109)

Not to be argumentative but being an office manager in the construction field vs actually doing construction is like comparing apples and oranges. Not to put down what you know but there is a difference.

That being said, as we have all traveled around the island you can she that much of the construction is shoddy. Not saying your home is, but I think Pat has a point about the construction in general

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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mprevo
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sxmmartini]
      #1746008 - 09/14/17 01:13 PM (50.36.99.98)

I think that I would agree with Pat a little more on this subject, but please let me tell you why.

I don’t think that there is any one specific time or if any of us really have an idea when it will be a good time to return. I think that it will be a different amount of time for each different individual. Each one of us looks for something different when we arrive. Some want a luxury resort with all of the amenities. Some want a simple room with a beach view, some would be happy in a tent if they had access to a beach. Some need fancy restaurants with a wonderful chef. Some just want ribs cooked over a barrel. Each one of these items would have a different construction schedule and time frame.

Also, as you read on please realize that I own a construction company that has been in business 60 years. I have personally been in the Construction Industry for 25 years. We build both commercial residential projects so I have a pretty good understanding of how the system works around here. Granted things may be different in the islands but much will be the same.

In my opinion, the ones that will rebuild first and fastest will be the ones with cash that can afford to finance the rebuild. If the Owners have to involve the insurance companies (and I am speaking with lots of experience on this subject) then this will slow the process down. Insurance companies require bids (sometimes more than one) and back-up documentation, all of which take time and manpower to prepare. The last ones to rebuild will be the ones with no insurance and/or limited finances.

Another thing to keep in mind is the Law of Supply and Demand. We deal with this on a daily basis. With so much devastation throughout the Caribbean (not only St Martin) there is going to be a huge demand for building materials throughout the Caribbean and in the Southern USA for that matter. What this means to anyone trying to build (or rebuild) is that the price of building materials is going to escalate. This escalation will cause problems with the people with limited finances as well as the insurance companies. In Addition, there is always a difference in what the Insurance Companies are willing to pay vs what the actual construction costs are. This will again slow the process down while it is sorted out.

Now we can talk about the labor force. Granted there will be a lot of people looking for work but not everyone can do construction. Every crew is going to need at least one or two seasoned workers to lead them. As these seasoned workers get scooped up the labor force will be saturated with unskilled laborers, which can cause as much bad as good when it comes to construction schedules and the amount of work a company can handle. Not to mention that there could very well could be a big demand for the skilled laborers (remember what the Law of Supply and Demand does to cost).

Between the new cost for materials and labor the construction costs are going to rise for a while. The reality of the situation is that those with the cash are going to be the ones that rebuild first and will probably get the best deals before the cost start to rise. The next few months after that will be a struggle for some to get their projects done trying to get materials and labor at a cost they can afford.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that it will quite a while before we see any kind of assemblage of finished products. You will see small pockets of competed projects here and there, from those with the cash. You will also see lots of folks waiting in line to be next. Areas such as Grand Case, Orient, etc. that received so much devastation will take time to get back to its former glory. I personally cancelled my vacation in February of 2018 because I am fairly confident that the island will need more time that that to heal.

So, in answer to the question when is a “Realistic time frame to return”, it can really only be answered by you and what do require when you return to St Martin?

--------------------
***********************************************

We will back when the island is ready for us!!

This is going to be a long wait, but the reward at the end will be worth it.


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pat
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746018 - 09/14/17 01:36 PM (75.133.113.202)

What an awesome response. Thank you for your expertise and your eloquence.

We're in the process of trying to regroup over several trips we had already booked - very sad to think of a year without St. Maarten but if that's what it is, c'est la vie? And believe me, please, I don't say that casually.

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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tonydead
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: pat]
      #1746029 - 09/14/17 02:01 PM (108.171.130.189)

Ribs cooked over a barrel is good enough for me!

Really the only point Wendy was making that generated all this disagreement is the amount of skilled labor. I'd imagine that with all the high rise condos, resorts and the bridge being built in the last 5 or 6 years there is more skilled labor on SXM than ever before.


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Ritchard
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: tonydead]
      #1746039 - 09/14/17 02:25 PM (99.254.160.177)

Quote:

tonydead said:
Ribs cooked over a barrel is good enough for me!





Me too, when to we leave?

Saint Martin Rentals posted on Facebook earlier :

Hi everyone, we've survived Irma ! Our office is badly damaged but we will get there. Everyone on island is hands on deck to get us back in shape.
However, to be realistic, we'll be contacting all our September, October and November guests to postpone their vacation here with us at Orient Beach, Grand-Case and Nettlé Bay. Though the bulk of our homes will be back on track, we are not sure, you'll be able to experience the full range of what Saint-Martin has to offer.
See you all at Christmas!

Makes me think we may get our Feb vacation after all. It won't be the same, but it may be a bit of an adventure instead. I hope there's some way we can be of help for part of our stay.

--------------------



_______________________
Want to make a difference? Visit Kiva.org.

Edited by Ritchard (09/14/17 02:28 PM)


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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746050 - 09/14/17 02:46 PM (67.86.221.25)



That was one heck of a post. The insight you bring, with the knowledge you have and the common sense you employ, should enlighten many on this Board.

Thank you

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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LBI2SXM
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746052 - 09/14/17 02:51 PM (73.112.165.173)

Totally agree with you. We lost the 1st floor of our home to Sandy. An insurance adjuster arrived 5 months later. We had to put some of our own money in just to make it livable after 5 months. Oh, we had water and power but nothing else. Try camping in your own home. Try to find carpenters who will not rip you off. If the islanders have to wait for insurance money, God help them, who knows how long that will take. Mprevo is right, then you need materials and sound reliable workers. Vacation time is going to tale a long time. Residents come first!

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mprevo
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: LBI2SXM]
      #1746211 - 09/15/17 10:15 AM (50.36.99.98)

Couple more thoughts on the island repairs:

A lot of the repair schedules will vary and will depend on what is actually being done. The big resorts and apartment complexes are more “Heavy Construction/Commercial” in nature and will take the larger construction companies to perform to work. Their workers are going to be the most skilled and most trained on the island. It would not surprise me if they don’t import companies/workers. None of these resorts are going to want to “wait in line” to be next.

The smaller projects like most of the restaurants, homes, beach bars, etc. will probably be rebuilt with the “local labor”. These types of projects or more “residential” in nature (Yes, a restaurant can be considered residential construction because they are built mostly like a house anyways). These projects can be completed with whatever labor they can get their hands on. Things may not be perfect when done, but this is a Caribbean Island and from what I have seen in the past, most of the structures are built far from perfect.

The big resorts are going to be mostly specialized materials. They will special order most of their materials (trusses, roofing panels, windows, furnishing, etc.). These repairs probably won’t affect the overall schedules of the smaller building repairs since the larger companies that will do this work already have lines from Suppliers. When you order 100’s of windows, TV’s, doors, etc. you buy directly from the manufacturer (not the local suppliers) to get the best pricing.

Materials for the smaller projects will be more of an issue. These materials will be more “generic” in nature and snatched up by the locals as soon as they arrive for their repairs. There will be a lot of waiting for materials and you will probably see a lot of structures half completed while they wait for supplies. You will probably also see a lot of “just make it work” type of repairs (tarps for roofs, mismatched colors, temporary wood structures, etc.). Which will work OK considering that the labor force doing many of these repairs will probably be the unskilled laborers.

All in all, repairs will probably be happening every day for the next 2 to 3 years. You will see many folks opening for business with half completed structures just to earn money so they can finish. Who can remember Pedro’s a couple years ago that went thru the high season with a blue tarp for a roof?

--------------------
***********************************************

We will back when the island is ready for us!!

This is going to be a long wait, but the reward at the end will be worth it.


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gomer36
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746214 - 09/15/17 10:54 AM (99.59.33.138)

I often get involved with catastrophic event recovery as part of what I do (power generation, transmission and distribution equipment) but that's typically limited to individual events like a factory fire, or a customer who's facility was part of a larger disaster such as the flooding with Harvey. One general observation I've made is that the haste in which the insurance companies drive claim settlement and reconstruction is greatly accelerated if their insured has a rider policy that covers loss of revenue while they are down. Some customers even have coverage that pays employee salaries and benefits until the facility is back up and running. I've seen this with everything from auto plants to hotels...sending cargo jets for materials and workers, dedicated trucks and transport with multiple drivers to keep them moving, paying huge fees to expedite normal equipment lead times, etc. All because those costs were small compared to what was being paid out under the loss of revenue coverage. If any of the properties carried that type of insurance on the island, you'll be amazed at how fast they get back up versus the properties that have standard coverage.

Hopefully, we don't have a repeat of the insurance fraud that some resorts and businesses suffered after Luis, when it was found their insurance agent had stolen their premiums. If I remember, this was one of the reasons Mullet Bay Resort was not rebuilt. I'm guessing (hoping) that there was far more vigilance and oversight in that regard going forward.

--------------------
"When one encounters a man of rare intellect, one should endeavor to discover what beer he drinks."

Gomer
--------------------------------------------------


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pat
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: gomer36]
      #1746220 - 09/15/17 11:21 AM (75.133.113.202)

Gomer,

I doubt most island businesses hurt would have the extended coverages you've mentioned due to high costs but this is a great post right up to the question/issue of fraud with reference to Mullet Bay. Theirs was not a matter of insurance fraud - I believe the resort you're thinking of was the Dawn Beach Resort. Supposedly, they (DB) paid their premiums to someone who enjoyed the money and never paid the bills. He took the money and ran. Mullet Bay Resort was more of a dispute between the family who owned the property and the individual unit owners and was ultimately settled many years later and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees later. The unit owners did ultimately receive some of their moneys back but still took a heck of a hit on their dream properties. We almost purchased one of these units but decided on Towers timeshare instead. Thank heavens!!

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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foreversxm
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: Ted_n_Jan]
      #1746229 - 09/15/17 12:03 PM (209.44.132.182)

I think those that are saying to give the island time to get their life's in order is the worst thing the locals need or want to hear. They will not take tourist until its ok anyhow. Sure a few months but these people are NOT sitting on big savings accounts or any savings like the ones say to not go. I am already hearing good thing and progress is being made. Lights , phone, internet all coming back day by day. The Dutch I bet will stay a long long time and you will see a much better governed Island. Law and order is under control again and I thing they will learn from what has happened. Plenty of hotels will get back open and to not go back is a true fair weather friend. Those that really love St Maarten need to go back. They still have great beaches, warm sun and great food and people and that's all I need. My Hotel will be open and my flight is going so mid December trip is still on. Just go!

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VitaMan
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: mprevo]
      #1746244 - 09/15/17 01:11 PM (71.206.204.8)

Mprevo, a couple of great, informative posts. The workers on the "heavy construction" sites will for the most part be dedicated company employees and not available to "freelance" on smaller projects. The same with their materials.
Depending on the local freelance labor force can be problematic. On the island the gardener is also a painter, the painter also knows carpentry, the carpenter also happens to be an expert plumber, and the plumber also does electrical work. The one thing they have in common is they all talk a great game. But when you finally find a qualified, competent tradesman, they take on more jobs than they can handle. So they may spend a couple of hours on your job, then move on to the next job for a couple of hours, and so on just so they can show some progress on each of the jobs. But sometimes they can't even devote a couple of hours to your job, so they leave you in the hands of an apprentice, and you're kind of back dealing with an inadequate level of work product.
Just my thoughts, but based on personal experience over the years of owning on the island.


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LBI2SXM
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: foreversxm]
      #1746251 - 09/15/17 01:30 PM (73.112.165.173)

Have you seen all the videos of the destruction? I assume you saw some. What did you see? Have you ever been through a hurricane? I have faith that SXM will survive and be better than before but lets be realistic here. 99% of homes and businesses have some kind of damage, some more than others. Yes the Red Piano, Toppers, the Super U, to name just a few are up and running. Bless them, they apparently faired well. Most of the residents are homeless and trying to survive. The mosquitos alone are eating the people alive in the BVI. Do you think SXM won't be faced with that? Repellent isn't working, there are too many of them and then comes the disease they carry. They are spraying thousands of acres in Texas today because of the bacteria present. SXM residents are having serious problems and we need to help them not invade them. There are relief funds, clothing drives, money all which will be useful to them now, not tourism. In time, absolutely, just not now.

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Shelby2
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: LBI2SXM]
      #1746252 - 09/15/17 01:37 PM (69.115.6.203)



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sasasal
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: LBI2SXM]
      #1746259 - 09/15/17 02:04 PM (24.102.161.71)

You are correct... This will not be a vacation for a long while...We who have a home must go back, when? who knows... To a house left? who knows. But there is no escape for us, and for the poor people that live on Island and have no where to run... The big issue is water and elec. without those, nothing will resume, and people will suffer. this is one time gebe need to work and work hard...

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LBI2SXM
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: sasasal]
      #1746264 - 09/15/17 02:37 PM (73.112.165.173)

You WILL get back to your home and repair the damage. Some way the will to rebuild is greater than giving up. You can and will do it in time. Our home was totaled but we fought and prayed and did get through it (and we are far from young and DH was diagnosed with Lymphoma at the same time!) Keep a positive attitude and you can do anything!!!

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sasasal
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Re: Realistic time frame to return [Re: LBI2SXM]
      #1746267 - 09/15/17 02:54 PM (24.102.161.71)

Those are beautiful words. and given what you have been through with health issues, you should know... Our only concern is our age. We went through luis in 1995 and some small hurricanes after, but this is way more major and we are up there in age... So everything in life has a time limit. I believe lives are way more important to material stuff, but on the other hand, lots has to do with endurance... We will see... To bring the Island back, everyone has to take part in repair... I think with this much there will be many that just walk away. Sad but true... Recovery will take time. Some have the time, others do not... that life, that us... thanks for your upbeat reply

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