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carolineross
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Joined: 04/08/13
Posts: 52
Strict on return tickets?
      #1532095 - 09/03/13 10:05 PM (63.135.20.147)

My boyfriend and I have been to and from sxm around 30 times in the past two years... They have never asked for proof of return ticket. Last week they pulled my bf aside and quite harassed him about not having a return ticket...he had one digitally but they weren't able to find it in their system... They finally let him pass through without finding his ticket, but we have never run into this problem before! They are always so lenient! Has anyone else run into this recently?

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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: carolineross]
      #1532097 - 09/03/13 10:16 PM (76.30.144.63)

The airlines used to make sure you had a return flight before letting you board a flight to SXM but not anymore. Not sure why. It does seem recently they don't question us as much as we are always back and forth. Don't know why you might have had a problem now. We just want to go spend money and stay warm for awhile by the beach.

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boucharda
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Joined: 12/01/04
Posts: 2929
Loc: Massachusetts
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532106 - 09/04/13 03:07 AM (92.128.61.38)

Everyone used to get R/T tickets on the same airline so it was easy to confirm a return flight. Nowadays, visitors might book one airline down and a different one for the return.

I guess I would still have printouts of my return flight with me when I land but I can see others just only having the digital confirmation in their laptop/phone/cloud.


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silverfox82
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Joined: 09/26/06
Posts: 1987
Loc: sebastian florida
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: boucharda]
      #1532113 - 09/04/13 06:51 AM (24.186.9.238)

My last 2 trips to SXM were on different airlines down and back, never asked for anything by anyone.

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BillandElaine
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Joined: 09/04/03
Posts: 15462
Loc: St Maarten
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: boucharda]
      #1532114 - 09/04/13 06:54 AM (200.7.52.49)

Know several people who have been held in immigration on SXM because they did not have a return ticket, one deported. They should not have been allowed on the plane to SXM in the first place.

We've been hassled fairly often at the airport checking into our return flight here, because we don't have a flight back to the US or off island to somewhere. We show them our Dutch residency documents and they ask - what is this?

--------------------
Elaine
*********************************
God Bless the broken road....


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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532117 - 09/04/13 07:06 AM (68.100.62.156)

I always have an issue with United if I am flying a different airline home. They won't let me check in online since I have to show proof of return travel to the counter agent.

I have been asked a few times for proof of a return trip by the Immigrations Official in SXM. So, I always make sure to have the info handy.


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silverfox82
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Joined: 09/26/06
Posts: 1987
Loc: sebastian florida
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532144 - 09/04/13 09:40 AM (24.186.9.238)

I do keep the return flight confirmation as well as hotel/timeshare confirmations handy. If I remember correctly, when booking the outbound on JetBlue last time a message popped up warning that a return or ongoing flight is required and I had to check the box that I did have one. Check in online was no problem.

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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: silverfox82]
      #1532168 - 09/04/13 11:43 AM (71.116.212.109)

I friend from SXM came to the US to visit me,she had to leave early and American Airlines made me buy a new ticket. They would not let her check-in with out showing a drivers license with a sxm address. French passport was not sufficent. The new ticket was considered one way.

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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532202 - 09/04/13 03:38 PM (71.181.205.88)

We have been flying since 1986. We stay at least 3 months , but have stayed longer. Never have we been asked for a return ticket. And of late, we do not book the return right away. We believe that because we own a home on Island, they will be lenient. If they allowed us to build on the Island, then they need to respect that we need to be there more than 90 days at times. I think this only applys to visitors and not owners. Never had a problem and been told we would not.

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BillandElaine
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Joined: 09/04/03
Posts: 15462
Loc: St Maarten
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532205 - 09/04/13 03:47 PM (200.7.53.230)

You've been lucky, so far. We live here full time and have residency. Unfortunately the documents are in Dutch and US ticket agents haven't clue.

--------------------
Elaine
*********************************
God Bless the broken road....


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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532207 - 09/04/13 03:59 PM (71.181.205.88)

We spoke to someone at immigration and they said due to our circumstances we would not have to worry. Again, we are not trying to go against the law, but we are citizens of the U.S. who invested money on Island. If the time comes that this is a problem, we will deal with it. but make no mistake we will not become resident of St.M. We have two homes, one here in pa, and one in St.M. But our residency is here in the U.S.A. Sometimes to much knowledge is usless.

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soualigacapt
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Joined: 01/21/10
Posts: 3594
Loc: Oyster Pond St. Martin
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532208 - 09/04/13 04:34 PM (190.102.4.213)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
We spoke to someone at immigration and they said due to our circumstances we would not have to worry. Again, we are not trying to go against the law, but we are citizens of the U.S. who invested money on Island. If the time comes that this is a problem, we will deal with it. but make no mistake we will not become resident of St.M. We have two homes, one here in pa, and one in St.M. But our residency is here in the U.S.A. Sometimes to much knowledge is usless.




I think that you need to get yourself better informed. It does not matter that you own a home or 10 homes here is St. Martin, you are subject to the same rules as anyone else. 3 months maximum stay without residency papers. If you get caught staying longer you will be put in jail until you can produce the cash to purchase a ticket back to the states. There is no leniency and you should know by now that what someone in immigration told you is worthless if someone else wants to uphold the letter of the law. What are you going to tell the officer? Someone told me I shouldn't have a problem? Won't help you.

The system with electronic codes on passports, and when you leave, the officer in immigration will know exactly when you came in and how long you were here. When you leave, your passport may have a red flag as a person who stayed over the limit and when you try to come back, you may have a problem.

It is not that difficult to get a residency permit if you don't plan on working. You also should know that it does not change your citizenship. It is only a permit to reside on the island. You US residency and citizenship is not affected. I would think you would have checked this info out before you bought a house.

Things are entirely different now with Sint Maarten being an independent country.

They are clamping down hard on everything.


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Sungoddess
traveler


Joined: 05/09/02
Posts: 2534
Loc: Spain and SXM
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532229 - 09/04/13 06:30 PM (212.230.38.219)

I can't imagine who you spoke to at immigration that would tell you that...I own a home on the island and have residency because it's the law. It doesn't matter if you own a home on the island, you still are not permitted to stay for more than 90 days.
You used to be able to go to the government building on (I think) the 1st Tuesday of the month and speak with someone from immigration/been there/done that!


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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Sungoddess]
      #1532247 - 09/04/13 09:19 PM (68.100.62.156)

Also beware that the island has also been known to enforce a return ban for a couple of years on those who they deport for residing without a permit. I own a home on the island and never come close to being able to spend 90 days per year there (unfortunately). However, when and if I do, I will be sure to submit the appropriate paperwork rather than risk not being able to visit my house for however long I would not be permitted to return.

I doubt the island would care that I paid an initial transfer tax (which they already collected) and would not consider me an investor worth bending the rules for. After all, with no property tax to collect year after year, I would have no leverage.


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wendyk
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Joined: 07/11/04
Posts: 865
Loc: falmouth,MA
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532279 - 09/05/13 06:58 AM (67.172.47.240)

Jet Blue has asked us for return tickets when we've not had them, and I showed our SXM id cards, which were sufficient for them.
What has happened with the Friendship Treaty? Nothing, I guess.


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pat
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Joined: 04/18/01
Posts: 11263
Loc: Brookfield, CT.
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532283 - 09/05/13 07:05 AM (75.58.127.169)

I address this to no one in particular - but I just don't get "WHY" people are surprised and/or upset that the country should be enforcing their own rules and laws.

Just print the darned paperwork and carry it with you and be done with it. It only takes a few minutes to do and once done, all your bases are covered. No hassle and no aggravation......... or am I missing something?

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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Unregistered




Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: pat]
      #1532287 - 09/05/13 07:23 AM (75.189.232.12)

We no longer own or come to SXM.However.I recall Justice department lost in court on the "Friendship Teaty which allows 6months per year for U.S. residents.Perhaps Immigration on SXM prefers to ignore court rulings

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Chuck_Morton
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Joined: 08/15/00
Posts: 1059
Loc: Maine, USA
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: pat]
      #1532289 - 09/05/13 07:42 AM (108.183.175.123)

Quote:

pat said:
I address this to no one in particular - but I just don't get "WHY" people are surprised and/or upset that the country should be enforcing their own rules and laws.

Just print the darned paperwork and carry it with you and be done with it. It only takes a few minutes to do and once done, all your bases are covered. No hassle and no aggravation......... or am I missing something?



Well said! Threads like this always make me wonder why folks just can't abide by local regulations and let it go.


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soualigacapt
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Joined: 01/21/10
Posts: 3594
Loc: Oyster Pond St. Martin
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532291 - 09/05/13 07:51 AM (190.102.4.213)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
We no longer own or come to SXM.However.I recall Justice department lost in court on the "Friendship Teaty which allows 6months per year for U.S. residents.Perhaps Immigration on SXM prefers to ignore court rulings




The friendship treaty is with Holland and Sint Maarten is not Holland. It is an independent country that can make it's own treaties and is not bound by treaties with Holland. That is why the government is appealing the court ruling.


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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532298 - 09/05/13 08:41 AM (200.7.33.106)

Elaine is absolutely correct. We have round trip tickets on jetblue from florida to sxm. We had to fly out of sxm to Boston unexpectedly and booked on us air. I never gave the return ticket a thought as we did have round trip tickets back to the u.s. As luck would have it, we got to the airport in Boston very early but needed every second of that time to contact JetBlue and get the info us air required to let us on the plane back--they were adamant about it. I won't make that mistake again!! We also are residents of sxm.

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kish
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Joined: 09/03/04
Posts: 1764
Loc: Quebec
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: pat]
      #1532299 - 09/05/13 08:46 AM (74.57.19.52)

Quote:

pat said:
I address this to no one in particular - but I just don't get "WHY" people are surprised and/or upset that the country should be enforcing their own rules and laws.

Just print the darned paperwork and carry it with you and be done with it. It only takes a few minutes to do and once done, all your bases are covered. No hassle and no aggravation......... or am I missing something?




I agree Pat. I always have printed copies of all my documents in my carry on luggage. Why would anyone not do this?


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BillandElaine
Traveler


Joined: 09/04/03
Posts: 15462
Loc: St Maarten
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532301 - 09/05/13 08:55 AM (200.7.53.230)

If you're a legal resident, you don't need a return ticket. But you do need your residency documents.

--------------------
Elaine
*********************************
God Bless the broken road....


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BlueGreenWater
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Joined: 03/19/12
Posts: 135
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BillandElaine]
      #1532724 - 09/09/13 08:29 AM (71.51.246.193)

Is the rule 90 days in a year, or 90 days at one stay? We go for 60 days each year, but have neighbors who have several months of timeshare and they believe the rule is 90 days per visit, not per year.

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soualigacapt
Traveler


Joined: 01/21/10
Posts: 3594
Loc: Oyster Pond St. Martin
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: BlueGreenWater]
      #1532726 - 09/09/13 08:44 AM (190.102.4.213)

As far as I know it's 90 days per year but this is always at the discretion of the person reviewing the status and as it is with a lot on the dutch side the story changes depending on who you ask in the government or to put it bluntly, nobody knows what the hell is going on!

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Snorkeller
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Joined: 05/06/04
Posts: 1037
Loc: Virginia
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: soualigacapt]
      #1532761 - 09/09/13 10:42 AM (108.4.112.247)

Quote:

soualigacapt said:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
We no longer own or come to SXM.However.I recall Justice department lost in court on the "Friendship Teaty which allows 6months per year for U.S. residents.Perhaps Immigration on SXM prefers to ignore court rulings




The friendship treaty is with Holland and Sint Maarten is not Holland. It is an independent country that can make it's own treaties and is not bound by treaties with Holland. That is why the government is appealing the court ruling.




Well - if you are one of the 5 or 6 people on this Board who have any interest in this -

Sint Maarten is one of the four constituent countries within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The fundamental legally controlling document for the goverance of Sint Maarten is the Charter of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The actions of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, politically speaking, is largely controlled by the Netherlands (one of the four constituent countries which has about 99% of population of Kingdom. The Kingdom Charter and the manner in which things happen gives control of defense and foreign affairs very largely to the Kingdom and therefore to the Netherlands.

The question of whether a pre-10-10-10 treaty is applicable or if applicable controlling in matters of residency or work rules in Sint Maarten is one for lawyers to spend lots of time and make lots of money for lots of years.

And, incidentally, I agree with you 100% on your statement that no one knows what the hell is going on!!!


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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: soualigacapt]
      #1532763 - 09/09/13 10:44 AM (68.100.78.185)

Quote:

soualigacapt said:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
We no longer own or come to SXM.However.I recall Justice department lost in court on the "Friendship Teaty which allows 6months per year for U.S. residents.Perhaps Immigration on SXM prefers to ignore court rulings




The friendship treaty is with Holland and Sint Maarten is not Holland. It is an independent country that can make it's own treaties and is not bound by treaties with Holland. That is why the government is appealing the court ruling.




Holland is not a country. Sint Maarten is still part of the Dutch Kingdom so not actually an "independent" country. The Charter for the Kingdom of the Netherlands governs the relationship of all four of the Dutch Kingdom constituent countries. Foreign affairs are matters which the Dutch Kingdom holds responsibility.


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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Chuck_Morton]
      #1532807 - 09/09/13 12:41 PM (63.135.20.147)

The issue is, I don't always book a return right away. I often get last minute deals...

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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532810 - 09/09/13 12:44 PM (12.9.88.204)

So I guess the issue is the laws only apply to other folks. Hold out for your deals. Whats the worse can happen?

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soualigacapt
Traveler


Joined: 01/21/10
Posts: 3594
Loc: Oyster Pond St. Martin
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: Anonymous]
      #1532826 - 09/09/13 02:09 PM (190.102.4.213)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Quote:

soualigacapt said:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
We no longer own or come to SXM.However.I recall Justice department lost in court on the "Friendship Teaty which allows 6months per year for U.S. residents.Perhaps Immigration on SXM prefers to ignore court rulings




The friendship treaty is with Holland and Sint Maarten is not Holland. It is an independent country that can make it's own treaties and is not bound by treaties with Holland. That is why the government is appealing the court ruling.




Holland is not a country. Sint Maarten is still part of the Dutch Kingdom so not actually an "independent" country. The Charter for the Kingdom of the Netherlands governs the relationship of all four of the Dutch Kingdom constituent countries. Foreign affairs are matters which the Dutch Kingdom holds responsibility.



I should have said the Kingdom of the Netherlands and I think Country Sint Maarten does not consider residency under foreign affairs. I think they believe they have the right to determine their own residency requirements under internal affairs. I could be wrong but the bottom line is that Country St. Maarten does not recognize the American Friendship Treaty and it will have to run it's course through the courts to determine how it will turn out. As of right now, Americans are subject to the same rules as anyone else from a foreign country.


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SharonfromSXM
Sponsor


Joined: 06/15/04
Posts: 1100
Loc: St. Maarten/Long Island
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: soualigacapt]
      #1532877 - 09/09/13 05:13 PM (173.2.153.26)

Sorry to disagree with you Bob but the government lost their last case against the owner of a well now business on the island. The court ruling upheld the validity of the Treaty & the fact that the island had to recognize it. The government had to even pay the other persons legal fees.

"Concerning the Dutch/US Friendship Treaty, Duncan said US citizens could not be treated the same as other foreigners. Their applications will be checked to ensure they comply with the protocol attached to the treaty that grants US citizens the same rights as European Dutch citizens. However, the application of the treaty will lead to a call for "reciprocity" from the US for St. Maarten people who want to live in the US."

http://thedailyherald.com/index.php/isla...e-permits-.html

Of course this does not guarantee that they won't take you to the police station but any attorney should have out of there in a hurry as long as your stay was less than 6 months...

--------------------
www.queenofsxm.com


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soualigacapt
Traveler


Joined: 01/21/10
Posts: 3594
Loc: Oyster Pond St. Martin
Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: SharonfromSXM]
      #1532931 - 09/09/13 08:17 PM (190.102.4.213)

Sharon. I agree with what you say but they are not honoring the treaty. I went to immigration just after the ruling and I was told to forget the treaty. It is not being honored. Still the same 6 months of waiting and endless paper work. Dutch citizens get papers in a week or so.

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Re: Strict on return tickets? [Re: soualigacapt]
      #1532994 - 09/10/13 07:35 AM (75.189.232.12)

If I read this right,the civil service is the source of governance,an unique form of political power.

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