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sail445
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Joined: 07/09/08
Posts: 2130
Re: Flare guns [Re: StormJib]
      #1662567 - 09/08/15 08:07 PM (107.72.162.45)

The flare gun is an efficient and safe form of launching a flare and should be used before a hand held unit.

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rhans
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Joined: 02/01/02
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Loc: Michigan
Re: Flare guns [Re: sail445]
      #1662569 - 09/08/15 08:28 PM (184.53.0.251)

Come on take a breath.
There are 2 common flare guns.
The 12ga. = barely legal but legal
The 25 mm = Beats the heck out of handhelds and is usually para style.

Can we close this thread now?


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StormJib
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Joined: 11/30/14
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Re: Flare guns [Re: sail445]
      #1662571 - 09/08/15 08:39 PM (71.224.72.51)

Quote:

sail445 said:
The flare gun is an efficient and safe form of launching a flare and should be used before a hand held unit.




That is what the marketing folks would have you think. Reality is the guns are worthless plastic junk that deliver a very low quality signal. If you ever need to use flares to signal distress or collision warning you want pyrotechnics that meet SOLAS standards. All the quality SOLAS solutions are handheld. If you do not believe me get one of those plastic cap guns and go shoot it off at a park one night.

Here are the spec to meet or beat:

The rocket shall, when fired vertically, reach an altitude of not less than 300 m. At or near the
top of its trajectory, the rocket shall eject a parachute flare, which shall:

.1 burn with a bright red colour;
.2 burn uniformly with an average luminous intensity of not less than 30,000 cd;
.3 have a burning period of not less than 40 s;
.4 have a rate of descent of not more than 5 m/s; and
.5 not damage its parachute or attachments while burning.


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StormJib
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Re: Flare guns [Re: rhans]
      #1662573 - 09/08/15 08:50 PM (71.224.72.51)

Quote:

rhans said:
Come on take a breath.
There are 2 common flare guns.
The 12ga. = barely legal but legal
The 25 mm = Beats the heck out of handhelds and is usually para style.

Can we close this thread now?





None of the 25mm meet the SOLAS standards. There is also the issue of a single pistol or firing tool. In the dark, rough water, confusion of the disaster.. they can fail, corrode or simply get dropped into the sea. That is why the knowledgeable and prudent mariner stocks his disaster grab bag and life raft with single use handheld SOLAS certified flares. It you want to get current or up to speed with this kind of stuff consider taking the next Safety at Sea seminar at your local yacht club. For skippers the "Hands On" is the way to go.

http://www.ussailing.org/education/safety-at-sea/

Link Safety at Sea Seminars


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CptCook
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Joined: 03/16/06
Posts: 195
Loc: SW Florida
Re: Flare guns [Re: StormJib]
      #1662591 - 09/08/15 10:12 PM (66.86.227.165)

Quote:

StormJib said:
None of the 25mm meet the SOLAS standards. There is also the issue of a single pistol or firing tool. In the dark, rough water, confusion of the disaster.. they can fail, corrode or simply get dropped into the sea. That is why the knowledgeable and prudent mariner stocks his disaster grab bag and life raft with single use handheld SOLAS certified flares. It you want to get current or up to speed with this kind of stuff consider taking the next Safety at Sea seminar at your local yacht club. For skippers the "Hands On" is the way to go.

http://www.ussailing.org/education/safety-at-sea/

Link Safety at Sea Seminars




So Stormjib......nice to see that you have done some research and have come to decisions for yourself. And I agree with some of the things you have said. That said, you are taking a rather strong tone with others opinions here. Just because you are right doesn't mean I am wrong!(old proverb)
Your opinions seem to be based on theory. Nothing wrong with that. Let me share a real life experience that refutes at least one of your theories. I was forced to land my helicopter in a very remote area. I was unable to make any radio calls once on the ground. My unit launched 4 other helicopters to try and find me. As they got closer to me, close enough for me to hear them and later see them, I started to launch SOLAS specification parachute flares. 6 of them. The other crews never saw any of the flares. The flares were too high. The crews were looking down at the ground, you know, sort of like at sea level. The flares burned for their specified times, but burned out above the rescue crew's field of vision. They didn't see me until I lit a smudge fire at ground level. So maybe some of those low opening flare gun flares you are deriding might have an application somewhere, sometime!
Make your own decisions, make them work for yourself, share what you know to be fact with others in a polite way, and leave them to make their decisions based on their needs, knowledge, and experiences.
For the record, on the boat I carry some of each of the above, hand held, SOLAS approved, Orion flare gun, and some military surplus pin flares.

--------------------
"Be a Traveler, not a tourist!"


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StormJib
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Re: Flare guns [Re: CptCook]
      #1662594 - 09/08/15 10:41 PM (71.224.72.51)

Capt Cook agreed and understood. Please note if you read all the posts you should see the answer was never meant as Only Carry High Intensity Parachute flares. Please also note their are also SOLAS standards for sea level hand held flares, smoke, and even lights. The better kits will have a combination of those devices without a single point of failure pistol.

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sail445
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Joined: 07/09/08
Posts: 2130
Re: Flare guns [Re: StormJib]
      #1662597 - 09/09/15 12:11 AM (107.72.162.45)

Each to his own I have the 25mm gun and it works fine.
I also carry hand flares.
The gun is the safer way to go.


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StormJib
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Posts: 1036
Re: Flare guns [Re: sail445]
      #1662641 - 09/09/15 01:18 PM (71.224.72.51)

Much of the original thread was the legality of flare guns. The reality is flare guns are illegal in many jurisdictions. The laws vary by state and county and are very complicated. In some places they may not be illegal? But, you must have a firearm or handgun license to possess one. Unless you research the law each time your boat moves across jurisdictions you could easily find yourself in jail. In jail with very harsh minimums for possession of an illegal firearm. The State of New Jersey is very harsh and unforgiving. Those are just a few of the reasons you will almost never find a "flare gun" on a commercial vessel or any of the "commercial vessel" prepackaged kits for general signaling or distress/rescue. The next issue is performance. None, including the 25mm versions, meet the international SOLAS requirements nor the USCG offshore requirements. In any delivery to or from the BVI the sailing clearly is "offshore".. Once you sail past Anegada heading East or South you will also cross offshore passages.

-SOLAS approved parachutes are designed so that other equipment isn't necessary for firing. No need for a separate gun or pen style launcher - which require multiple steps for use. And if you have lost your launcher or found yourself with a broken launcher, you'd be left holding an unusable flare and no way to signal for help.

U.S. Coast Guard approved aerial flares have less demanding operational performance specifications than SOLAS flares. These flares typically had a burn time of approximately 6 seconds and an altitude of 300 feet.

-This pales in comparison to SOLAS flares that burn for about 40 seconds and an altitude greater that 900ft. Unlike SOLAS flares which have built in firing mechanisms, there is a wide array of ways to fire USCG flares, ranging from built-in (Skyblazer) to a pistol type launcher.

-Six seconds is nothing when you are hoping to catch a random glimpse of a bridge watch offshore. The SOLAS spec's devices will literally light the entire sky for more than half a minute. Anyone looking anywhere near your direction will not be amble to miss the brilliant nighttime illumination. Any boat going to and from the BVI should have a proper kit of SOLAS offshore devices. A Safety at Sea Seminar is also a good step for at least one of your crew.


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Twanger
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Joined: 06/03/04
Posts: 6041
Loc: Maryland
Re: Flare guns [Re: StormJib]
      #1662646 - 09/09/15 01:57 PM (50.193.144.241)

Nicely said StormJib!

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CptCook
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Joined: 03/16/06
Posts: 195
Loc: SW Florida
Re: Flare guns [Re: Twanger]
      #1662661 - 09/09/15 03:42 PM (66.86.227.165)

Quote:

Twanger said:
Nicely said StormJib!




Agreed, a very polite and informative explanation.

--------------------
"Be a Traveler, not a tourist!"


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