Traveltalkonline.com Forums


SXM Cruise Schedule TTOL Sponsors SXM Travel Calendar
Forum Statistics
Forums39
Topics30,528
Posts229,309
Members25,443
Most Online2,218
Jan 21st, 2020
Top Posters(30 Days)
Zanshin 80
Fred 77
Kennys 76
TomB 76
EllenS 76
Member Spotlight
kim
kim
Newtown, CT
Posts: 4,051
Joined: September 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
MassExodus, mayhem
Who's Online Now
6 registered members (sail445, 706jim, HibiscusFan, EdB, Clod, 1 invisible), 147 guests, and 393 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
French side measures to help business #146496
10/16/2017 09:58 AM
10/16/2017 09:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Daily herald story Really curious what that means, about having things on Orient able to be dismantled? Say what??


Carol Hill
SXM Sponsors
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Carol_Hill] #146497
10/16/2017 10:27 AM
10/16/2017 10:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 355
Sarasota, Florida
deputydog1157 Offline
Traveler
deputydog1157  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 355
Sarasota, Florida
I don't get that dismantling statement either. I would much rather the structures be concrete block or poured concrete and strapping the roof to the walls much like the state of Florida has required post hurricane Andrew. If they are to be dismantled, would that mean they have to be, for lack of better terms, tent like? Or do they mean the type of construction that is elevated with "breakaway" lower level? Might be just a translation issue.



[Linked Image]
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: deputydog1157] #146498
10/16/2017 10:38 AM
10/16/2017 10:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Makes no sense. How can a restaurant be built to be dismantled? Or restrooms??????


Carol Hill
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Carol_Hill] #146499
10/16/2017 11:26 AM
10/16/2017 11:26 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
Traveler
Snorkeller  Offline
Traveler
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Here is report of press conference in french - which appears more detailed - maybe was a handout at conference - ? http://smn-news.com/french-news.html

I would read it to say that Gibbs is making a clear distinction between rebuilding on private land and rebuilding on the beaches - which are public land. Maybe what he means is that what is built on beaches should be considered as temporary, pending decisions of the Collectivitie about the ultimate plan for the beaches. Businesses can rebuild on beaches but should not consider what they build permanent - it should be light and easily taken down. ?

Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Snorkeller] #146500
10/16/2017 01:09 PM
10/16/2017 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 188
FL
B
bksm Offline
Traveler
bksm  Offline
Traveler
B
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 188
FL
As the old children's song says, "the foolish man built his house upon the sand ... and the floods came up and the foolish man's house went splat". Many of the concrete slabs that were built on Orient were damaged or destroyed because they were built on the beach and were no match for the shifting sands and storm surge.

Last edited by bksm; 10/16/2017 06:28 PM.
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: bksm] #146501
10/16/2017 01:59 PM
10/16/2017 01:59 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
Traveler
Snorkeller  Offline
Traveler
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Norbert Luftman has been called many things, but I do not think "foolish" is one of them. With the possible exception of the new places between Pedros and Kon Tiki, the Orient Beach establishments have made people a lot of money.

Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Snorkeller] #146502
10/16/2017 02:26 PM
10/16/2017 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Agreed.


Carol Hill
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Carol_Hill] #146503
10/16/2017 05:38 PM
10/16/2017 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,913
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
Traveler
islandgem  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,913
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Perhaps they mean " temporary" as like Karakter on the Dutch side. They were not permitted to build a permanent structure there because of beach regulations so they used the bus on wheels and built around it. They were able to reconstruct their place quickly after the hurricane and back in business again.




Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Snorkeller] #146504
10/16/2017 06:15 PM
10/16/2017 06:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 188
FL
B
bksm Offline
Traveler
bksm  Offline
Traveler
B
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 188
FL
Quote
Snorkeller said:
Norbert Luftman has been called many things, but I do not think "foolish" is one of them. With the possible exception of the new places between Pedros and Kon Tiki, the Orient Beach establishments have made people a lot of money.


Wow, I did not call anybody foolish. That was a quote from a song and I guess I should have put it in quotes. I also made no reference to how much money the Orient restaurants made.

My only point, which I guess flew over your head, is that I think the French government's idea of having non-permanent structures on the beach that can be disassembled if necessary is good. Building on the sand with concrete slabs, concrete blocks, and steel is still no match for a strong storm. By the way, someone else mentioned building like they do in Florida to withstand hurricanes. Well, in Florida they don't build permanent buildings on the beach sand because it's not wise and not environmentally friendly.

Re: French side measures to help business [Re: bksm] #146505
10/17/2017 10:27 AM
10/17/2017 10:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 334
Lancaster County PA. Home of t...
Jeff_C Offline
Traveler
Jeff_C  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 334
Lancaster County PA. Home of t...
It is interesting . A few years ago we took a group of people to Orient bay . We rented a villa . While we were walking down Orient beach . I told my friend about the plans to dismantle the beach bars , and spend a lot of money and put nicer buildings in . He looked at me and said . That was a stupid idea . It is a lot cheaper to rebuild with 2x4 and 2x6 than to put something expensive in . It will never with stand a hurricane . Jeff_C


If your motto is ; If at first you don't succeed......
Maybe it would be best not to try sky diving !
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Jeff_C] #146506
10/17/2017 11:20 AM
10/17/2017 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
T
thebowl Offline
Traveler
thebowl  Offline
Traveler
T
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Why are so many people struggling with what is being proposed? The fact that you have warm memories of these places doesn't mean that they make any sense, from an ecological or engineering standpoint. Neither does the fact that someone made a lot of money before the storm blew the places away like they were sand castles. If what has happened at Orient doesn't lead people to understand the ultimate folly of building things within 50 metres or so of the waterline, nothing will.

Re: French side measures to help business [Re: thebowl] #146507
10/17/2017 11:39 AM
10/17/2017 11:39 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
Traveler
Snorkeller  Offline
Traveler
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
I do not know "what is being proposed." I am not sure President Gibbs at this time knows what will happen on Orient Beach. There seems to be a distinction between the immediate time between now and October 1, 2018 and then the planning for after October 1, 2018.

I do struggle with the idea that it was folly to build the Five Stars and other beach structures that lasted for more than 20 years as very successful businesses. I think building them - like building Dreams on Nettle - was a calculated and reasonable taking of risk by entrepreneurs.

If you simply want to take the position that nothing should be built that close to the high water mark again, fine - say so. But, to say that the plan needs to be to build that close to the high water mark again in a way that would withstand the hit that Orient Beach took from Irma - I just do not think that ever will happen.

And, let me add that I do not want that to happen. I do not want concrete bunkers built on Orient Beach. I much prefer nothing or what was there before Irma and before the carbets.

Last edited by Snorkeller; 10/17/2017 12:37 PM.
Re: French side measures to help business [Re: Snorkeller] #146508
10/17/2017 01:22 PM
10/17/2017 01:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
T
thebowl Offline
Traveler
thebowl  Offline
Traveler
T
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Quote
Snorkeller said:
I do not know "what is being proposed." I am not sure President Gibbs at this time knows what will happen on Orient Beach. There seems to be a distinction between the immediate time between now and October 1, 2018 and then the planning for after October 1, 2018.

I do struggle with the idea that it was folly to build the Five Stars and other beach structures that lasted for more than 20 years as very successful businesses. I think building them - like building Dreams on Nettle - was a calculated and reasonable taking of risk by entrepreneurs.

If you simply want to take the position that nothing should be built that close to the high water mark again, fine - say so. But, to say that the plan needs to be to build that close to the high water mark again in a way that would withstand the hit that Orient Beach took from Irma - I just do not think that ever will happen.

And, let me add that I do not want that to happen. I do not want concrete bunkers built on Orient Beach. I much prefer nothing or what was there before Irma and before the carbets.


It appears as though the French government, which ultimately owns the beachfront IINM, is considering requiring any improvements to be very low impact, and capable of disassembled easily. I used the term "folly" to refer to any notion that what was built would withstand a major storm. Sure, people made money while it lasted, more than they would have made had they faced the responsibility to clean up the debris left behind, which I seriously doubt will be the case. Will any of the entrepreneurs line up to write a check for those costs? Who will get stuck for those costs?

What happened with the "small bars" between Club Orient and Kon Tiki is instructive. Someone had the "brilliant" idea to "upgrade" those places. All that was left behind, based on the photos I saw, were the roofs, sitting on top of the footprints of the buildings.

My guess is that the French government wants any future improvements to be designed based on reality, and not some fantasy that there will not be another major storm, so that when the inevitable happens, the residual financial impact involved in cleaning up the mess is minimized. Makes sense to me.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1