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Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: NCSailor] #150807
12/31/2017 01:41 PM
12/31/2017 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,241
New Jersey, USA
DanS Offline
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DanS  Offline
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Posts: 1,241
New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by NCSailor


Assume the following:

Value of the dwelling: $1,000,000
Coinsurance: 80%
Required Insurance: $800,000
Insurance limit carried: $500,000
Damage: $800,000

Divide the limit of insurance $500,000 by the Required Insurance $800,000 = 62.50% Recovery Percentage

Multiply the amount of damage $800,000 by the Recovery Percentage 62.50% = $500,000. The insured is paid the policy limit.

If the amount of damage is changed $700,000 the insured only recovers $437,5000.

So you don't need to have a total loss to recover the policy limit you need to have an 80% loss or 20% value remaining.



I am not in the insurance business, but the sources I checked by googling "co-insurance clause" (here, here, and here) all match the above explanation.

Dan cheers

BVI Sponsors
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: DanS] #150826
12/31/2017 02:57 PM
12/31/2017 02:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 364
now - or when ?
C
CGB Offline
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CGB  Offline
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C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 364
now - or when ?
Yes - we are all understanding it correctly - now that the numbers have been added
It was the discussion of whether the slab & cistern was worth more than 20%/less than 20% that didn't connect with me
But.. that seems to be a red herring in the picture

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: DanS] #150827
12/31/2017 03:04 PM
12/31/2017 03:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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NCSailor  Offline
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Charlotte, NC
Keep in mind that the purpose of coinsurance is to encourage policyholders to adequately insure their property. Most losses are partial losses. Without coinsurance policyholders may intentionality under insure gambling that they will only sustain a partial loss and still recover their full loss. This defeats the basic insurance principal of spreading the risk over a pool of policyholders.
A good broker will assist their client with determining adequate limits to satisfy the coinsurance requirement. If the broker fails to adequately advise the client about coinsurance and the need to insure to full value they could be on the hook for the shortfall. I suspect a lot of brokers in the Caribbean are sweating about this right now.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #150836
12/31/2017 09:22 PM
12/31/2017 09:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 872
Michigan
rhans Offline
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rhans  Offline
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Posts: 872
Michigan
Errors & Omissions - Google it. Might help the cause.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: CGB] #150840
12/31/2017 11:19 PM
12/31/2017 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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NCSailor  Offline
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Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by CGB
Yes - we are all understanding it correctly - now that the numbers have been added
It was the discussion of whether the slab & cistern was worth more than 20%/less than 20% that didn't connect with me
But.. that seems to be a red herring in the picture


It's not a red herring its a fact as proved by the formula I presented. Perhaps you just don't get it.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #150903
01/01/2018 03:05 PM
01/01/2018 03:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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NCSailor  Offline
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Charlotte, NC
Also, keep in mind that the cistern may not be covered property under a lot policies. In that case it should not even be considered on either side of the coinsurance formula.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: NCSailor] #150954
01/01/2018 06:46 PM
01/01/2018 06:46 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,523
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Offline
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Manpot  Offline
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Posts: 15,523
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
However you dress this up...we got hosed and still dont have the " hosed" check that we were supposed to get in " 5 to 10 working days" three weeks ago.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: Manpot] #151022
01/02/2018 01:03 PM
01/02/2018 01:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 364
now - or when ?
C
CGB Offline
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CGB  Offline
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C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 364
now - or when ?
Mal - well... you've certainly had your share of stress and challenges this past calendar
...... in both places...... as if either one wasn't enough....
So - here's hoping the winds change... and change in your favour in this New Year

And the same good wishes to all others that have been struggling through this past year
Boat(s), house, cars and business'... it has been painful to watch and be able to help so little

To a peaceful year....
cheers

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: Manpot] #151168
01/03/2018 05:18 PM
01/03/2018 05:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
Jan 3 rd. I have tried to call the BVI government about a couple of issues. No phones are being answered. I have fried to call my mortgage bank (first Bank) with several different numbers. No one is answering. Same thing with Nagico. No one is answering phones. Complete breakdown in communications. Not sure what I can do.


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #151194
01/03/2018 06:15 PM
01/03/2018 06:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 375
ski2play Online content
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ski2play  Online Content
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Posts: 375
ditto, tpcook, ditto.

We are about the same. This recovery is going to be on island time no matter how you slice it.




[Linked Image]

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152442
01/15/2018 10:37 AM
01/15/2018 10:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
So today I received an answer from the insurance company on my claim. They are trying to tell me that the villa was under insured and are deducting because of that. I asked about how the under insurance worked and was told in an E-Mail from the director of Nagico that as long as it was within 80% it would not be invoked. Now they are saying that the E-Mail that I received was an explanation only and not part of the policy. I think they induced me to buy the policy by the statements that they made and this is a fraud against me. They also said that if I wanted to have the 80% under insurance that I could have bought the policy with that in effect, however in the E-Mail back to me they did not mention any cost to purchase the 80% under insurance, so that again is a fraud as the broker failed to ask me whether I wanted the 80% or not.
I am VERY angry on the way I am being treated by this company.


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152449
01/15/2018 12:08 PM
01/15/2018 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,897
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
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Co-insurance clauses only come into effect if the loss is partial. From the pictures I saw it is hard to believe that the villa was not a total loss.

Last edited by GlennA; 01/15/2018 01:58 PM.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: GlennA] #152451
01/15/2018 12:29 PM
01/15/2018 12:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
Glenn I agree with you, but they claim it is not a total loss. (so they can use under insurance clause)
All of this is VERY disturbing to me and my son. We will be drafting a letter to the adjuster that we consider this a fraud in many ways


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152455
01/15/2018 12:45 PM
01/15/2018 12:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 65,490
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 65,490
Central Florida!
Have you consulted an attorney? Might be best, at this point.. And I would do it BEFORE I sent any letters..


Carol Hill
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: Carol_Hill] #152477
01/15/2018 02:59 PM
01/15/2018 02:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
Thnaks Carol


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152487
01/15/2018 04:26 PM
01/15/2018 04:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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NCSailor  Offline
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Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by tpcook
So today I received an answer from the insurance company on my claim. They are trying to tell me that the villa was under insured and are deducting because of that. I asked about how the under insurance worked and was told in an E-Mail from the director of Nagico that as long as it was within 80% it would not be invoked. Now they are saying that the E-Mail that I received was an explanation only and not part of the policy. I think they induced me to buy the policy by the statements that they made and this is a fraud against me. They also said that if I wanted to have the 80% under insurance that I could have bought the policy with that in effect, however in the E-Mail back to me they did not mention any cost to purchase the 80% under insurance, so that again is a fraud as the broker failed to ask me whether I wanted the 80% or not.
I am VERY angry on the way I am being treated by this company.


Are they saying that you have 100% coinsurance?

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152491
01/15/2018 04:44 PM
01/15/2018 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,217
Adagio Villa, Mahoe Bay,Virgin...
gordaguy2 Offline
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gordaguy2  Offline
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Posts: 4,217
Adagio Villa, Mahoe Bay,Virgin...
HI Thorsten - sympathies on this trying time - we are still awaiting our insurance company's offer.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152504
01/15/2018 07:55 PM
01/15/2018 07:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,897
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
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GlennA  Offline
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Posts: 10,897
Macon, Georgia
I woud love to see the numbers they ome up with. I have explained some true partial losses to some people on Facebook that workedout about right. Mostly recent additions without updating the policy.


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152556
01/16/2018 10:55 AM
01/16/2018 10:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 375
ski2play Online content
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ski2play  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 375
tpcook, I am sorry, this is indeed frustrating. They are invoking the same on our villa on Jost. We were lucky to be a partial loss but at the same time, this sucks!




[Linked Image]

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: NCSailor] #152565
01/16/2018 12:11 PM
01/16/2018 12:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
In my case they made a math mistake and the under insurance factor is 87.6% This has become so DIFFICULT for me that my son is entering the picture to deal with all the cast of characters involved. So far no work permits from the government even though they promised a quick decision for skilled workers, the Bank is being very difficult to reach about my mortgage, the insurance company is shoddy. Dealing with companies in the BVI is VERY difficult


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152567
01/16/2018 12:18 PM
01/16/2018 12:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 14
G
GaryNewHampshire Offline
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Posts: 14
I'm sorry to hear about all of the difficulties with your insurance company. I'm not sure if anyone has spoken about the idea of hiring a Public Adjuster to navigate the settlement for you. We had a fire at our house two years ago, and based on the advice of the firemen, we hired a Public Adjuster to deal on our behalf with the insurance company. His fee was 7% of all settlements, however, we got back far more than expected, even factoring in his fee. What the Public Adjuster does is calculate everything that was lost, come up with a replacement cost, and tell that to the insurance company. They negotiate the final number, but they are negotiating more as equals, as opposed to the insurance company simply dictating their terms. The final settlement number, with a Public Adjuster, is always MUCH more than what we would have been simply offered by the insurance company. So rather than sit back and let the insurance company mandate a low settlement number to you, I would urge you to hire someone to advocate on your behalf. Not only will you have someone getting you a better settlement, but you'll also have someone dealing directly with the insurance company, saving you the stress and anxiety of doing this yourself. I hope this advice is helpful, and I apologize if this has been covered in a previous post. Best wishes on a fair resolution.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152651
01/17/2018 11:07 AM
01/17/2018 11:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
I just received the first proposal from the insurance company, but it is so ridiculous that we (My son and I) are responding that we are preparing or arbitration in the matter. I may need some one to act as an arbitrator in the matter. As an example, they are saying we are under insured by 87.6% and then in another paragraph they are saying the estimate that we submitted was too high even though it was at a per sqft rebuild of $237 The villa is heavily damaged and nothing can be reused except for the cistern. I estimated a 40 week rebuild and they think 30 weeks. A villa cannot be built in the BVI in 30 weeks.

Basically the insurance company is abusing their clients.


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #152658
01/17/2018 12:18 PM
01/17/2018 12:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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NCSailor  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by tpcook
I just received the first proposal from the insurance company, but it is so ridiculous that we (My son and I) are responding that we are preparing or arbitration in the matter. I may need some one to act as an arbitrator in the matter. As an example, they are saying we are under insured by 87.6% and then in another paragraph they are saying the estimate that we submitted was too high even though it was at a per sqft rebuild of $237 The villa is heavily damaged and nothing can be reused except for the cistern. I estimated a 40 week rebuild and they think 30 weeks. A villa cannot be built in the BVI in 30 weeks.

Basically the insurance company is abusing their clients.


Sent you a PM

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #153571
01/26/2018 12:01 AM
01/26/2018 12:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
The BVI government is giving my builder the work permits he needs, So the rebuild will start Feb 10. The insurance company seems to be interested in finishing the claim but so far I have not seen a final proposal. The bank also is trying to help with the mortgage. So maybe the stars are aligning.


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #153607
01/26/2018 11:22 AM
01/26/2018 11:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,337
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
tpcook - stay on them even if you agree to a settlement amount. I made a settlement with my adjustor in person with the promise of a payment within a 2-3 weeks. It's been 18 days and so far only a "recommendation for payment" has been made to Lloyds. I suspect I'm still 3 weeks out from a check to my bank.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: JasonHelmbrecht] #153621
01/26/2018 01:15 PM
01/26/2018 01:15 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,523
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Offline
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Manpot  Offline
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Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Jason ..see my post..if you re on island go to the office and pick it up!

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #154074
01/31/2018 12:48 PM
01/31/2018 12:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,563
Virginia & Charleston, SC
RickG Offline
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RickG  Offline
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Posts: 1,563
Virginia & Charleston, SC
Well, we received our Proof of Loss for De Life on November 30, 2017. The wire transfer arrived January 25, 2018. Our hold up was slow pay by one of two LLoyds's syndicates. We had to push to get to settlement this quickly. It worked out okay for us in the end.

Cheers, RickG


Land based on the Virgins 2/28/18-3/5/18, booked and hoping to Cat Fight 10/25-11/3. June?!
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: RickG] #154076
01/31/2018 12:54 PM
01/31/2018 12:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Memphis, BVI, CT
R
RatmansWife Offline
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RatmansWife  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 425
Memphis, BVI, CT
We’ve been very pleased with the service we’ve received from CIL. They’ve gone out of their way in difficult circumstances. No complaints at all.

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #154083
01/31/2018 01:29 PM
01/31/2018 01:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
The insurance company is still asking for more information on what my rental income was for the last 3 years. I have provided my uSA income tax forms, my computer spreadsheets showing the name, date and amount of all income. I also offered to send them every contract and the cashed checks from my guests. All of this shows without anyu doubt what my yearly income from the villa was. Now they have to think about it. BVI government is still working on the work permits. meanwhile I have bought flight tickets and accommodation on VG to meet the builder and the architect on site to discuss the project. Frustratingly slow. meanwhile the clock ticks


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #154135
02/01/2018 09:25 AM
02/01/2018 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,897
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
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GlennA  Offline
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Unless you are making a claim for lost business revenue what does rental income have to do with a settlement? It has nothing to do with reproduction cost.


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: tpcook] #154137
02/01/2018 09:40 AM
02/01/2018 09:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 364
now - or when ?
C
CGB Offline
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CGB  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 364
now - or when ?
Not to mention disclosing private individuals' Credit Card and Bank account numbers.
That seems to be on the wrong side of privacy rules... curious if the insurance companies can "demand" that info

Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: GlennA] #154139
02/01/2018 09:52 AM
02/01/2018 09:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline OP
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tpcook  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,823
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
Mt policy covers me for lost rent. to a max of 10% of the sum insured.


tpcook
Re: Insurance Claim Payment [Re: CGB] #154157
02/01/2018 02:16 PM
02/01/2018 02:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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NCSailor  Offline
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Posts: 1,734
Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by CGB
Not to mention disclosing private individuals' Credit Card and Bank account numbers.
That seems to be on the wrong side of privacy rules... curious if the insurance companies can "demand" that info


The insurance company has the right to review and copy the insured's books and records. This is a grey area but typically it's limited to the documents necessary to validate the claim presented. Credit card and bank account numbers are not needed to prove the claim. What is more important is proof of the revenue received. That can be documented by the insured's bank account statements and other accounting records.

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