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Willy T...denied
#160646
05/11/2018 01:21 PM
05/11/2018 01:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 113
jpfitzy7
OP
Traveler
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OP
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 113
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Last edited by jpfitzy7; 05/11/2018 01:22 PM.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - beer in hand - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160669
05/11/2018 05:01 PM
05/11/2018 05:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999
Macon, Georgia
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Dr. J has wanted to get rid of the Willy T sence he bought Norman Island. It is a major drawback to his plans for turning Norman Island into a 5 star eco resort. Irma gave him his chance and the Jereckis have lots lof clout with the NDP.
Unfortunately coming on top of the loss of the Bomba Shack, loosing the Willy T will end any reputation the BVI ever had for "debauchery".
Last edited by GlennA; 05/11/2018 05:01 PM.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: GlennA]
#160672
05/11/2018 05:36 PM
05/11/2018 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 583 Oak Park, IL
TomGarvey
Traveler
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Traveler
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Posts: 583
Oak Park, IL
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A government statement I saw on FB says that the Willy T's seabed lease expired in February, 2018 and that they've been talking to the Willy T owners since early 2017 about their needing to relocate because of the Norman Is. development plans. If the lease did in fact expire and was not renewed, I think they'll be looking for a new home. Seems very odd, though, that the two parties wouldn't have gotten ahead of this and dealt with it before the new boat was about to be placed.
Tom Garvey
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160695
05/12/2018 12:06 PM
05/12/2018 12:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,296 Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,296
Colorado and Sailing the World
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As has been the case for this season and even last season, before the hurricane damage - the BVI government has not been friendly to sailors, whatsoever. High C/I fees, mooring fields everywhere that limit anchoring as well as unfriendliness of the government toward tourism in general, including yachting, paints a dismal picture for any quick recovery of the BVI 100% based tourist economy. Why deny one of the most popular attractions in the BVI's, the Willy T, a place to anchor at Norman Island where it brings in sailors and significant island revenue?
The BVI government continues to shoot themselves in their feet, so to speak.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Will_L]
#160697
05/12/2018 12:34 PM
05/12/2018 12:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999
Macon, Georgia
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I am in agreement with Will that the Bight is about the only place that can accomodate the Willy T without severly effecting existing establishments. It has to be in a reasonably isolated area to avoid noise complaints and traffic problems and in an anchorage protected from all but the worst weather and have sufficient moorings to serve the patrons.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Tortolian]
#160702
05/12/2018 05:06 PM
05/12/2018 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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Norman Island was never a National Park and was not owned by the Government. It was privately owned by the USVI branch of the Creque family and was up for sale for ages before being sold to Jarecki 20 years ago or so. At the time there was a lot of talk that the government should have blocked the sale because Jarecki already owned Guana Island, which he has always kept off-limits to the public. There were fears at the time that Norman would go the same way... Norman Island was never a National Park and was not owned by the Government. It was privately owned by the USVI branch of the Creque family and was up for sale for ages before being sold to Jarecki 20 years ago or so. At the time there was a lot of talk that the government should have blocked the sale because Jarecki already owned Guana Island, which he has always kept off-limits to the public. There were fears at the time that Norman would go the same way... Tortolian check this site. Norman was a National Park https://bestmapsever.com/pages/british-virgin-islands-national-parks-list
Last edited by sail445; 05/12/2018 05:27 PM. Reason: Overwrite
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: sail445]
#160703
05/12/2018 06:07 PM
05/12/2018 06:07 PM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4
rednecksailor
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: sail445]
#160734
05/13/2018 12:21 PM
05/13/2018 12:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,169 Rincón PR
casailor53
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,169
Rincón PR
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Christmas Cove would be out of the question because of the red tape,they’d have to be US Coast Guard inspected for the boat along with safety equipment.
In the VINO article, Ewan said "The businessman mentioned that he has had calls from 'the United States Virgin Islands (USVI) to come there and operate as it could be for me an easy move, as my new vessel meets all US standards, including the US Coast Guard'."
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160754
05/13/2018 10:01 PM
05/13/2018 10:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999
Macon, Georgia
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Benures Bay is out. Dr. J doesn't want the Willy T anywhere near Norman Island.
Just spitballing a little. The only place the Willt T could move to with similar protection and maintain the traffic volume would be Christmas Cove. It would also be an additional incentive to charter out of the USVI. That would also make Dr. Smith question his actions even more. Already I suspect he is finding that, from a PR standpoint at lease, the tail he has grabbed has teeth on the other end.
Last edited by GlennA; 05/13/2018 10:23 PM.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Manpot]
#160773
05/14/2018 12:26 PM
05/14/2018 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 583 Oak Park, IL
TomGarvey
Traveler
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Traveler
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Posts: 583
Oak Park, IL
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That would be great for West End and would be a short run for USVI folks and from Tortola generally. I wonder, though, if the ferry wakes and wind gusts would make it untenable.
Diamond Cay would be another good option. There’s good holding, it’s close to Tortola and C&I, he could run water taxis from Fish & Lime to there too, and along with B-Line and Foxy’s Taboo would make the E end of JVD quite a hot spot.
I think anywhere the Willy T goes there would be some NIMBY opposition, either from home owners or existing business owners, so this is going to be a tough puzzle to solve.
Tom Garvey
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160797
05/14/2018 05:35 PM
05/14/2018 05:35 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886
Louisville, KY
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Just wondering .... Did the owner of the Willy T show poor judgement in leaving the wreckage of the former boat laying on shore and debris on the sea floor. It has been approximately 9 months since the hurricane destroyed the old Willy T, and I haven't read anything regarding the clean-up. If the owner of the Willy T was only interested in replacing his former boat, and perhaps showed little interest in the mess he left on someone else's property .... that property owner might have little sympathy or motivation in the matter. I don't know, perhaps someone could comment.
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160802
05/14/2018 07:42 PM
05/14/2018 07:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999
Macon, Georgia
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My understanding is that they have cleaned up all the minor pieces but the hull is still on the beach awaiting a replacement crane. The Willy T was close to maximum capacity for the crane that attempted the first lift. It had to be brought in very close attempting to improve leverage and keep the barge stable. The boom was only a few degrees off vertical and when a choker broke the rebound flipped the boom over backwards. Unfortunately for the only lightly damaged cat on the barge deck there nothing to hold a boom once it goes over vertical.
That has nothing to do with the current situation however. This is simply that Dr. Jarecki has wanted the Willy T gone for the last 19 years and saw irma as an opportunity to call in some chips.
Last edited by GlennA; 05/14/2018 07:47 PM.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160803
05/14/2018 09:14 PM
05/14/2018 09:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 802 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 802
Redmond, WA
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For us, Pirate's prices after the rebuild already amounted to a de facto boycott. We still visit, but eat and drink aboard.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160854
05/15/2018 03:50 PM
05/15/2018 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 965 Middleburg, VA
cwoody
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 965
Middleburg, VA
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All is not lost yet …. a friend of mine sent me this today:
"Looks like the Willie T will be stationed at Great harbor Peter Island. Permits are being finalized today. So.....looks like you can still "jump naked with a painkiller “!!"
More to come .......
Chuck W.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160856
05/15/2018 04:13 PM
05/15/2018 04:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,951 St. John, USVI
RickG
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,951
St. John, USVI
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There has to be a great back story here.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Grenada
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#160858
05/15/2018 04:46 PM
05/15/2018 04:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 318 Hilton Head, SC
Steve27
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 318
Hilton Head, SC
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Read today that the Willy-T will be in Great Harbor on Peter Island now. Hopefully they will have their own mooring balls since Peter Island balls are $60.
Cruising the local waters here in SC and GA. Love the BVIs and miss the Tradewinds!
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Steve27]
#160861
05/15/2018 04:55 PM
05/15/2018 04:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214 Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214
Toledo, OH, USA
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Read today that the Willy-T will be in Great Harbor on Peter Island now. Hopefully they will have their own mooring balls since Peter Island balls are $60. We just stayed in Great Harbor Peter Island, ball was $30 for the night. Those balls are owned by Oceans 7. Same price as they were everywhere else.
Colleen
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Orange_Burst]
#160865
05/15/2018 05:10 PM
05/15/2018 05:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 318 Hilton Head, SC
Steve27
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 318
Hilton Head, SC
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Ok great! We are headed down in July and looking to try there then. Thanks for the info!
Cruising the local waters here in SC and GA. Love the BVIs and miss the Tradewinds!
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: RatmansWife]
#160994
05/17/2018 10:30 AM
05/17/2018 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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I am hoping that, with the government’s involvement, Dr. J’s new development will be every bit as successful as Prospect Reef. It would be just as successful if the Willy T was in the harbor. A lot of celebrities and Mega yachts have visited the T. I even saw Michael Douglas and Zeta there in 2006. Only a minority of the guests would be too stuffy to complain.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Catmandu]
#161040
05/17/2018 05:44 PM
05/17/2018 05:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 549 Jacksonville, FL, USA
onlymedication
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 549
Jacksonville, FL, USA
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Remember this a boat not a land based restaurant/bar therefore easy to relocate. Does it really matter where they end up. We will all certainty cruise there assuming still in BVI. Question is where? I can imagine it in a more remote harbor/cove as to not tread on other existing businesses.
Not much remote left in the BVI. "They paved paradise to put up a parking lot." I wasn't even a big fan of Willie T, per se. Just not my or my wife's style, really. Our favorites were more along the lines of the peace and serenity of Cow Wreck. But we enjoyed going there, and definitely enjoyed watching the revellers move to and fro and enjoy themselves. They weren't hurting anyone, except for maybe themselves on occasion. The loss of Willie T, in and of itself, isn't really that big of a deal to me, personally. But it means a lot to many, and more particularly, the how and why of the loss (or moving) of the Willie T is a strong statement of the priorities of the BVI Gov't. It's got me feeling very sad.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#161054
05/18/2018 09:36 AM
05/18/2018 09:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61 Massachusetts
Sea&SkiPJ
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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I'm relatively new here, so please forgive me if I offend anyone...
I've only chartered in the BVI three times, the last one with my kids, both in their twenties. They're joining my wife and me this July when we return for our fourth trip. When I told them that the Willie T would be absent from the Bight, their response was "oh well, we'll still have a great time."
The Willie T was iconic, to be sure. Watching drunken revelers toss themselves naked off the top deck was amusing, if only for a moment. And while its loss is sad and painful to some, I don't think the BVI economy is going to collapse without the Willie T.
On the other hand, two massive hurricanes that obliterate the businesses and infrastructure of the islands would crash the economy.
I love the BVI and return there to spend my money, even while having wonderful sailing options like Nantucket, Block Island, Martha's Vineyard and Narragansett Bay. My history with the BVI is far less extensive than many folks here and my experience with the government is equally less established.
But if I were managing the BVI economy, I'd ask, is the Willie T going to employ all those people whose jobs were lost when the businesses in which they were working were washed away? Is the Willie T going to pay for all of the medical treatment for injuries sustained during the storms? Will it pay to clean up the landscape, pave the roads, rebuild businesses and homes? Will it provide enough tax revenue for the government to pay for adequate law enforcement, emergency services, transportation hubs, or schools for the children of residents? Honestly, the owners of the Willie T were unable to find an effective solution for getting its carcass off the beach (I know they tried, but they failed and it seems like they gave up). Is that attractive to sailors spending tens of thousands of dollars on vacations?
Having small, quaint businesses within an economic eco-system is a necessary and desirable thing. But, despite being distasteful to many, the long-term health and sustainability of the islands will be built on large capital investment, job creation and tax revenues. That's capitalism. Let's face it, the sailing destinations of New England are doing quite well with a mix of small and large businesses, but without their version of the Willie T. I think the BVI will live without it too. Maybe the thing to do is take a deep breath, relax, remember the Willie T with fondness and move on.
I suppose, those who are truly repulsed by this can exercise their right to avoid the BVI and sail elsewhere. I respect that. I also appreciate the vacant mooring ball that will produce.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#161056
05/18/2018 10:50 AM
05/18/2018 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61 Massachusetts
Sea&SkiPJ
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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I don't disagree and I'm not downplaying it. As I said, small business are necessary. Combined, they contribute to the overall economy.
But losing one small business has far less of an impact than losing a larger resort, like the BEYC, for example, who employs far more people, supports far more ancillary businesses and pays significantly more taxes. Without these properties and, come to think of it, charter companies, which are larger entities, small businesses could not sustain the economy of the BVI.
If the government is looking to bolster the economy through the development of similar properties, it's hard to question that thinking.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Sea&SkiPJ]
#161060
05/18/2018 11:37 AM
05/18/2018 11:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214 Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214
Toledo, OH, USA
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Possibly. Or it opens the door for large capital investment, which may result in substantially greater sustained overall benefit.
It will be interesting to see how things develop over time. The first year I visited the BVI's, 2000, there were plans in the works for a big resort at Norman Island, you see where that is today?
Colleen
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: Sea&SkiPJ]
#161073
05/18/2018 01:05 PM
05/18/2018 01:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040 Charlotte, NC
NCSailor
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040
Charlotte, NC
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Possibly. Or it opens the door for large capital investment, which may result in substantially greater sustained overall benefit.
It will be interesting to see how things develop over time. The issue is not whether capital investment is good or bad. Rather, its that the politically connected owner of Norman Island exerted pressure to prevent the Willy T from reopening in the Bight because it did not fit with his planned development. There is also the anti competitive aspect. Jarecki used his political influence to eliminate the only competition for his restaurant. The Bight is not owned by Jarecki. This may be the way things work in the real world but that doesn't mean people should just accept it.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: jpfitzy7]
#161076
05/18/2018 01:22 PM
05/18/2018 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61 Massachusetts
Sea&SkiPJ
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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Any entrepreneur knows, competition is actually a good thing, but...
People don't have to accept it. Freedom of choice allows everyone to decide how to comport themselves. If you don't want to support what's going on there, then simply sail somewhere else. That's how consumers exert their pressure. Otherwise, it's the golden rule: he who holds the gold, makes the rules.
Change is inevitable. First, I hope that in twenty years I can still operate a yacht in the BVI. That alone will be noteworthy. Second, I hope those who push for change will read this post and consider those whose passions beckon for a simpler, greener, and more compassionate evolution. Who knows, stranger things have happened.
In the meantime, I'll still sail with unbridled joy and passion, because for me, it's the journey that matters, not the destination.
Cheers.
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Re: Willy T...denied
[Re: windward2c]
#161097
05/18/2018 05:39 PM
05/18/2018 05:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040 Charlotte, NC
NCSailor
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,040
Charlotte, NC
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I remember "swearing" I would never go back to Saba Rock after they tore down old Pirates and built what I proclaimed a monstrosity on the rock. I probably boycotted for a year or so but then checked it out and while I missed the old place, I learned to enjoy the new place and went back every year. I think the same thing about Billy Bones, old Cooper etc. Truth is the BVI is paradise compared to almost most other places I sail and I am on vacation, on a boat generally with my best friends and/or closest loved ones, it is ALL awesome!!! So while we will lament what just happened and I am in agreement with you, I suspect in a few years "most - sailors are a stubborn lot" we will learn to love in all in a new way Cheers! Not me. I have never cared for the beach in front of Billy Bones/Pirates. Too still and too many flies. We ate and drank there until the price of a Bushwacker went to $15. Painkillers at $12! Come on. I don't mind paying a premium when in paradise but I don't like getting ripped off. We will skip the Bight except as a day trip for snorkeling.
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