It’s been pretty quiet on here about BB. Coming down in a month and wondering how it’s going? We may not need to use it because of less crowds in June. Except at Cooper. Any feedback?

I personally avoid stupid boatyball.

Once they get critical mass, up go prices.

We have spent several weeks down here since the introduction of bb. Have not used it even once.

It depends on who you ask. The issue with squatters has drastically declined as the word has gotten out about BB and the bay managers have gotten better at enforcement. They’re still $40 for a reservable mooring and reservations begin at 7am on the day of. They still sell out pretty quickly but we’re headed down next week to add some more reservable moorings in different locations to help distribute the demand.

Does "add some more reservable moorings" mean less non-reservable moorings?

In the meantime, yes.

Absolutely

I actually got my first boatyball at Cooper today for my 2nd boat who seems to drag behind us wherever we go...

I am on a regular ball and our other boat is coming in now and have regular ball for them

Still not a fan of interface...

IMHO the difference is that we are coming into off season...still have balls at Cooper at almost 200. had plenty at Anegads and Leverick

So in the mean time it means you’ll be commandeering the non reservable moorings until you wind up with all the non reservable moorings and then you will add new moorings.

Doubtful, I expect no more fcfs balls. Just BB at ever higher prices.

Alec
Here is the reply you sent to me on my private mail:

I know you guys aren’t the most keen on BoatyBall and I can understand why. I just wanted to let you know that we’re not planning on going the route of demand pricing or radically increasing the cost for reservations. We’re also not planning on getting rid of FCFS moorings. I’ve actually enjoyed reading a lot of your posts about BoatyBall and the BVI in general. So thank you for the feedback and info in general. Cheers.

You already have increased the price of the moorings which a few weeks earlier you had said wouldn’t happen.
You just said that your not planning on getting rid of FCFS moorings which contradicts you saying your taking on more moorings and it turns out the ones you’re taking on are FCFS.
And finally you said Thanks for the feed back and info in general Cheers.

Sounds to me like three strikes and your out..

I think Cooper has now converted 15 fcfs balls to BB. That represent a huge reduction in the number of fcfs balls and therefore reduces my choice of balls even if I get there real early.

As I have said many times, if boaty ball added new balls and did not impact the number of fcfs balls, then I would be in favour of it.

I am not in favor of the current implementation.

Boatyball sucks balls.

Now that's funny.

Hey Alec,
Do you have a bvi work permit?
If not, you have no business working in the BVI.
Please don’t mess with more fcfs balls.

Boatyball has the right to ban you from the application. When they get enough balls, this will allow them to effectively ban you from the bvi.

Once again, boatyball is forcing up mooring prices,
How do we keep them away?

Has anyone ever planned on getting to a particular Anchorage only to change your mind after 7am?

Perhaps you want to add another mid day stop and won’t get as far, or maybe you can’t get far enough due to weather or wind?

Does boatyball accommodate a change of plans? Fcfs sure does.

I don’t want to be forced to commit to my evening destination at 7am.i often change my plans as the day evolves.

How about you?

Seems like it would an ok application IF they weren't taking balls off the open market so to speak. Give people the option by choice-not necessity.

I haven't noticed them from shore, but on the website, there appear to be 10 balls in Cane Garden Bay now. Bay manager seems to be Rhymers.

You know I agree with you 100% Warren!

Cooper the other night was dead, but still a bunch on the BB's...so just some wasted $ and an unnecessary 7am log-on for them. FCFS balls available all night.

In North Sound today...chose to anchor off Prickly Pear and avoid the whole mooring/BB nonsense at Leverick. Instead spent the mooring fee on painkillers at the New Oil Nut Bay Marina village...which was a better use of it!

We were in Anegada this morning and looked at the app - no CGB moorings. By the time we pulled into CGB, there were several there. They must have just come online today.

Used a BB for out first night in Anegada so we could take our time and fish the drop. As soon as we pulled in and took the last mooring, a representative came out and checked our reservation. Kudos to BB for the enforcement. The next night we noticed a crew come in and clean/maintain the BB balls.

Anchored off of Vixen in NS the previous night and it was sublime. Quite a crowd over at Leverick.

So BB has now hijacked 10 fcfs balls at Cane Garden Bay. Meaning that the average price of moorings in the BVI is going up. This is not good for anyone. The BB balls are too high and damage the underside of cats. The BB take away our choices. If the balls are associated with Rymers we should let Rymers know how we feel. Boatyball is a bad idea. Please don’t use them unless it’s necessary.

CGB has plenty of other moorings and lots of room to anchor. I fail to see how having a choice to sail later in the day is a bad thing. The cost argument is silly. $10 out of a multi thousand dollar charter rental.... Just use your anchor.

I agree, Warren. GeorgeC and others sounded the alarm early on, and it looks like they called it right. It seems like this is one of those ideas that sounds good in theory but is not so good in practice. Simply converting existing balls to more expensive advanced reservation balls without any net new capacity just moves the race for the last ball at Cooper from a physical one mid-afternoon to a cyber one at 6:59am. And, other than Cooper and maybe Great Harbour, JVD, the destinations have good anchoring options for late-comers.

I'm having a hard time understanding who benefits. The price of a ball is $10 higher, BB takes their cut, the holders of the sea bed leases still have to send out staff to check reservations and play enforcer, there's no additional capacity, and I doubt the BB guys are seeing much return. And, the table is set for additional price increases to solve the problem that BB created. I can imagine it now:

"Commit to a minimum of five balls a week at $50 each and get advanced reservation access. No refunds for changed plans."

Why should an American control the mooring ball market. That is where it is headed. It has nothing to do with the $10 increase. It's simply wrong.

Of course we can anchor. We do anchor in certain places.

I asked Alec if had a work permit to be in the bvi this week to install balls. He did not answer, so that question remains outstanding. I also asked if he had a license to carry on business in the BVI.

Jason, today it's CGB, where are more BB being installed tomorrow.

Let's see how long it takes for the prices to increase yet again.

What happens when some charter companies are given a 6:45am opportunity to book balls ahead of others?

Control of the mooring fields needs to remain in local hands.

Once again, if BB added balls and did not disturb the number of fcfs balls, I would have no objection. In spite of promises from Alec to increase the number of balls, and not to raise prices, neither promise has been respected.

So I see Diamond Cay has them as does in CGB...we were in Diamond 4 days ago and CGB 2 days ago and no sign of them...

Diamond Cay as well now? Oh FFS! Cretins.

It starts with a high cost taxi or ferry ride and an Ecology tax.

Dining and receiving an inflated check which almost guarantees to double your tip to a inattentive, rude waitstaff.

Finally it comes to the yacht “Check out” and your on way to a beautiful tranquil Caribbean sailing trip with crystal clear turquoise waters and Turtles, Dolphins and Sea birds along with the folklore of Pirates and the Spanish Main.

Then all of a sudden it’s over and you to have to race for a FCFS mooring ball or have to get up before 7am to reserve a ball that you may not want and then the possibility that you might not have space to anchor in a harbor with so many mooring balls that its impossible.

But there’s always tomorrow and 6 more ha ha!

And then the return Ferry, Taxi and the get out of town tax

At some point, the charter companies will check the bottom of the cats for boatyball damage. Who will pay for that? Presumably the holder of the charter contract is responsible. Using Boatyball will be very expense when the charterer had to pay for predictable damage. Arguably it will not be subject to the daily insurance buy down because the damage was foreseeable and therefore negligence on the part of the captain.

At its core, BoatyBall is really a booking service for moorings; BoatyBall does not own moorings. It’s no different from an Airbnb or a broker that many boaters use to help reserve a boat. The locals still have 100% control over the seafloor and the moorings. The decision to use the BoatyBall program by the mooring ball owners is a way to simplify the payment process and help them differentiate themselves from their competition. All the moorings in the BoatyBall program have been insured and maintained. After Irma this has become especially important. BoatyBall allows mooring owners who have done the right thing and maintained their moorings to offer a competitive feature. In the end the local businesses still control the seafloor and the moorings. They are in charge of installing more moorings and the overall price. BoatyBall just helps them do it more efficiently.

From a private message from Alec

"should clarify that we are converting FCFS moorings but we’re not planning on getting rid of them altogether"

Enough said. Not trying to convert all of the balls.

I assume that this means they intend to convert most have them and enjoy a monopoly.

We have been following this thread and we appreciate both the positive and negative feedback. We know we will never make everyone happy. Alec is correct that BoatyBall does not own or maintain mooring balls. The mooring balls in the BVI are owned and maintained by locals. I hope that most can agree that having more maintained mooring balls in the BVI is a positive. BoatyBall provides a way for mooring ball owners to promote their maintained and insured moorings. Alec is also correct that maintaining moorings is costly. BoatyBall is simply a booking system that helps local businesses promote there product. It is the local businesses decision to add additional moorings. This is not a BoatyBall decision. However, we hope that by making it easier for mooring ball owners to track occupancy and making payment collection more reliable that the local businesses will invest in additional moorings. Thanks again for your feedback.

So basically you’re doing what it takes to get a business going and hardly investing a nickel.
I’m sure the locals are happy.

I would think a trade license would be required if money is being collected.

Why? Does Expedia need a trade license to sell tickets out of EIS? Does any credit card processor need one to process payments from hotels and restaurants? AirBNB or VRBO to take reservations and payment? The folks who own the moorings should have one and Moorseacure would need one.

We haven't used BB yet. We actually haven't made a trip down in almost 3 years now. But when I first saw it, I didn't think it was a big deal. Here in New England, it seems many marinas use dockwa. Seems to work well. Major difference is you can book further in advance, but it is also a lot more expensive. I wasn't really sure why a whole new method/app needed to be created for this when others existed, but I also didn't see it should be a big deal. I know if we wanted to take a mooring, I'd much rather know we have one waiting then get there to not find one. Especially in a spot like cooper.

If you haven't used it, don't knock it. We used it multiple times and really liked the fact that we could sail all day, without having to do the mooring ball hustle and get somewhere early in the afternoon. It was great to roll in late and get on our ball.

What time of year did you sail? Two friends have tried it for Cooper multiple times and never were able to secure a ball. That forced them to go to Cooper much earlier to get a FCFS ball. Boatyball does nothing to alleviate the Mooring ball shortage and over population of charter boats in the BVI. It simply moves the burden from one charter boat to another. Now if boatyball would have added new balls and commit to never providing better booking windows to some charter companies I would be a enthusiastic supporter. So far they have done neither.
George

We used boatyball at Cooper and like being able to sail with no hurry to get there.
I also witnessed at great harbor on Peter a boat leaving in the morning without paying. The guy collecting fees had to run him down as he was leaving harbor.
I see advantages for the owners of the mooring balls getting paid in advance. I like being able to pay with CC instead of cash.

As for adding more balls, I think many harbors are too full of balls and leaves very little area to anchor anymore.

In all my trips down, I've only had internet on a boat once (which we had to pay a lot for due to a work issue.) Is it pretty standard now that all boats have internet access? We used to check email etc from the wifi at places ashore. Just wondering how everybody is accessing the app at 6:59 in the morning.....

People used to talk about how they went sailing in the BVI's to get away from all that.....

With Sprint i have free international data.
I only used for boatyball 1 day. Used it to check wind guru or radar. No emails or social media for me

We sailed March during high season. We used the WiFi at Nanny Cay the first.night to access Boaty Ball at 7am to reserve a ball at Cooper. Second time we used the WiFi at Cooper to access it to reserve a ball at Leverick. Also agree it's great to be able to pay for it online and not have to worry about having cash for mooring balls.

If all it takes is being up at 7am to be able to have a leisurely day getting to my destination, I'm all for how the system works. I have to say, the balls disappeared quickly in March, within a minute of 7am.

How many horses do we have to beat to death to end this endless discussion?

I'm pretty sure participation is optional...be it mooring balls or threads.

Three times recently I tried to go to Cooper Island with a boat full for lunch. What I found was that there were no fcfs balls but plenty of Boaty Balls open. So needless to say Cooper Island did not get our business those days. In the case of Cooper Island, that does a big lunch business, you would think that they would realize that for every ball that is not occupied during lunch hours means business lost. Those days put a bad spin on Boaty Balls for me.

There are now 5 Boaty Balls in Great Harbor, JVD.

I thought I saw a past post that stated the BB balls were ok to use during the day for a lunch stop like that? Check out is say 11am, check in 2/3pm? That leaves a window where it is unreserved and usable?

TMM Charters has Internet on all boats.... No extra charge! Go TMM!

Can somebody confirm this please. If I come into Cooper or anywhere else that has Boatty Balls that we can use the empty ones until 2:00 PM regardless if the reserving boat shows and wants it?

I always thought that Boatty Balls were a result of to much salt water/moisture and chafing that usually required some medication.

Jim

It is a noon to noon reservation....

https://boatyball.com/howto.html

Coopers, a lunch spot, hasn't figured out that this is probably a bad idea with the timing....

Stopping into Cooper for lunch and to swap out tanks is a regular part of our routine. Might no longer be possible.
G

New balls or converted?
G

Converted...as far as I know they haven't added any new ones and now have infected Great Harbour, Cane Garden, & Diamond Cay...

We stopped in at Cooper for lunch last month using an unused BoatyBall. We were ready to go if an aggrieved renter arrived but had a nice lunch on the way to Norman. We also used bb to make sure we had a ball (for ease of mind) after a longer passage (e.g Jost to North Sound). We always got one, but they went quickly. One thing, some of the balls at Cooper are a little close together ( sorry can’t recall the numbers). Two cats kissed at 3am when we were there - oddly I was up to witness because our ball was slapping against the hull. There was no wind to organize the boats on the moorings so they were all swinging this way and that.

Bailau is correct. The reservations are from noon to noon. This was a change that we made based off of feedback from both the mooring ball owners and boaters.

Guilty! Local businesses in all three bays have decided to use BoatyBall to help promote and collect payments for some of their maintained and insured moorings. The decision to add more moorings is not a BoatyBall decision but a local business decision. This past year some moorings in Great Harbour were removed because the local business owner was not getting paid for them. If in Great Habour and not using BoatyBall please make sure you pay the correct owner. BoatyBall would like to see more maintained and insured moorings in the islands and not less.

BB: I am late getting into this thread, so I apologize if these questions have already been asked and answered:

Question 1: How does this impact / solve the "stop for lunch" issue? Many / most boats leave a mooring before 10:00 am. Suppose I show up at Cooper at 11:30 am and want to stop for a couple of hours for lunch. I see empty 6 BB moorings. May I use those for my lunch stop? If I do, how do I know that someone with a reservation won't show up at 12:30 pm and wonder why I am on the ball he or she has reserved?

Question 2: If one of the goals of BB is to help boaters avoid or eliminate the necessity to "rush for a ball", won't those with a reservation most likely show up after 3:00 pm? If so, why does the reservation run from noon to noon?

Let’s see what Alec says.

My understanding is that you cannot use the BB for a lunch stop, a stop to fill dive tanks or a quick visit to the gift shop. The ball might be reserved and such party could show up at any time, or the ball might be unreserved when you arrive and could be booked during your short stop by a party that just showed up.

aarpskier - good questions.

When we first launched the app we had an earlier check out time and a later check in time to try and accommodate for the lunch crowd. In theory this was a good idea but in reality it lead to a lot of the problems that we had early on with enforcement. Boats would come in for lunch and have one too many pain killers and then disappear for the day. So we decided to try noon to noon and we ended up having a lot less issues.

The behavior is definitely changing and it is not unusual to see the BB moorings empty at 3pm even though they have been reserved. We hope this means boaters are able to spend more time doing what they love and easing some of the pressure at the National Parks. With boaters staying on the water longer it also means that the restaurants are changing strategies. That being said, all of the bays have first come first serve moorings. Cooper has 15 FCFS that are maintained and another 5-10 on the south side of the bay that boaters can use if they want to go in for lunch.

There are some users of the app that will reserve and still show up around noon. I have spoken with several boaters that have done this and they say they like the convenience of the app and the security of knowing they are tied up to a maintained mooring. Others will reserve and show up early but they did it simply for the location. So we have some boaters using the app to spend more time on the water and others using it out of convenience. We continue to gather feedback and make changes so if you have suggestions we would love to hear them.

So whats a person that doesn't have internet service supposed to do?

Having internet is nice! Can check weather. Can check emails. Don't have to, but CAN. Having WiFi give you Option of reserving BoatyBall! (Warren has WiFi on Scuba Doo, but exercises his option to NOT use BoatyBall. On Sea Tiger I option to reserve BoatyBall sometimes. But we both agree that WiFi is nice to have)

ALL TMM Charter boats come with FREE WiFi. So perhaps you charter a boat in TMM fleet ;-)

BB, do you have any plans to change the style and type of ball so it won’t damage the underside of cats?
G

As the number of BB increases, and the number of fcfs balls decreases, I may find that I have no choice but to use boatyball or anchor.

Since the additional $10 was reportedly to enable "enforcement", I hope BoatyBall will make their FCFS at the $30 rate.

Actually Wes, the rate should be below $30 because the owner of the ball saves the cost of collecting the mooring fees.

The ball owner has to pay cc fees, but that should be their issue. I don’t mind the cash and the cc card company can’t block your use of cash for suspicious activity. Cash does not require a pin or get compromised. The are no foreign currency fees with cash as there are with cc.

I hope that the owner still allow payment to the guys in the dinghy. I enjoy chatting with them. Everything in an app is to impersonal.

GeorgeC1 - We have had a few people share concerns about the shape of the new moorings and the potential for damage. However, there has been no reports that the new moorings actually damaged a boat. We do not own the moorings but we do pass along any reports we hear to them. One plus of the app is that it is easy for boaters to notify us of any issues so we can help track issues and pass along.

Warren - thanks for your post. The mooring ball owners pay for the maintenance and insurance of the moorings. They also pay local taxes on the moorings. These taxes have gone up significantly over the past couple of years. They also pay someone to go out and collect. Unfortunately, in some bays there is an issue with locals going out and saying they are collecting for the owner but they are not. This obviously causes a problem for the local mooring ball owner whose costs continue to go up while collections are going down.

Cash creates another issue for the locals. There are very few banks for them to deposit money into and the owners we have spoken to prefer the credit card transactions verses cash. For obvious reasons they do not feel comfortable sending employees with a large sum of cash over to Tortola to deposit money. The credit card transaction fee is covered by BoatyBall. The goal is to help the local businesses stay profitable so they will invest in more moorings.

Cross your fingers and good luck getting a FCFS ball. If more balls are being converted to BB and no new balls are being added, it’s either bite the bullet and pay for WiFi or cellular service (my international plan was $10/day only when I used it), or join the rat race of trying to snag a FCFS. Which means getting there earlier in the day and spending less time on the water.
I felt like several of our stops two weeks ago we were seeing all balls taken by 1pm, mainly Great Harbour JVD, Anegada and Leverick. We basically prioritized every morning being underway early and hoping we could get a ball when we arrived. Certainly took away from being able to spend more time on the water sailing! I think next trip we will try hitting our stops on different days of the week than we have in the past to avoid the hot spots on their typical busy days.

SonOfTheSea - We understand your frustration. Your experience is one of the reasons we created the app. We felt that most boaters would prefer to spend an extra $10 to be able to spend 3-4 more hours on the water. We also felt that boaters would spend the extra money to know they are supporting locals who pay to have their moorings maintained and insured so you can get a better nights sleep.

We are also beginning to see boaters who normally would stop at Norman, Peter, or Cooper on day one heading to Leverick or Jost to get ahead of all the other boaters. If being able to reserve a mooring helps spread out the boaters this might help with some of the congestion. Time will tell.

My cell company also charges $10 per day while in the BVI. Several of the charter companies like TMM provide free wifi while others charge for it. Another option is to go grab a cup of coffee at one of the local restaurants that provide free wifi. They would love to have your business!

Are those local restaurants open for the 7:00am BoatyBall reservation race?

Why would they need to be?

Um, because it was suggested to go grab a cup of coffee at them to use the wifi thats needed to make a reservation on BoatyBalls.

Seems obvious! You need to be online to book the ball at 0700, otherwise you miss the chance!

Came into Great Harbour Jost this morning. There are now at least 5 boatyballs that I can see from where we are moored.

Hearing a lot of negative vibes on our travels about BB. Even our boat briefer at Sunsail had a mouthful of expletives to share about them, I didn't say a word about my views, but he told us in no uncertain terms that they are bad news and suggested we stay away from them.

On the plus side...BB's meddling has encouraged us to so far anchor two nights at Prickly Pear and two nights at Pomato Point, so thanks for the $120 lads. And sorry to whichever local pocket that cash would have gone into in previous years. Ah who am I kidding, it will end up in the hands of some beach bar along the way!

I have said this before. The BB controversy will diminish when the Irma damage is repaired. There was a shortage of moorings this high season which was the first with a “normal” number of boats post Irma. We were down in late February. I have never seen so many boats racing to Anegada at 9am. The lack of Willy T at the Bight. BEYC closed, Saba closed, Marina Cay limping, Trellis limping, Little Harbor limping, WE limping.
In my 29 years of boating in the BVI Cooper was always an after thought. Now because they are open they are the bell of the ball. Everyone wants a piece. Not me, service there has almost always sucked.
Two years from now BB will be a service some use. But many will opt not to pay the premium. Gotta play the long game and not get your panties in a bunch.

Boatyball , Please name some local restaurants that are open at 7:00am that have free wifi.

Actually changing the style of the mooring ball isn’t going to make the chafing and banging of the hull any different.

When your moored there’s usually a breeze to keep the pennant taught and if the wind dies out you’ll be at mercy to the currents and regardless of the mooring shape it’s going to bang against the hull.

Currently watching a fight between a large sportfisher (who seems to have reserved one of the boatyballs) and a Moorings monohull who was refusing to move.

Has been going on for a while now. Sportfisher just upped the ante by ramming them in reverse (with the Moorings dinghy as a cushion between the two so he didn't damage his Sportfisher).

Now Moorings has moved...but dropped anchor within half a boat length of the boatyball...perhaps as a protest...perhaps they just don't know how to anchor.

And now a third monohull is trying to pick up the boatyball. Two ribs and a centre-console also somehow involved.

I'm confused as to who the good-guys are now!

You’re last paragraph should read:
Two years from now BB will have total control of BB and FCFS mooring balls and will then talk with the BVI National Parks to make it illegal to destroy the Turtle grass in the mooring fields and therefore NO anchoring will be permitted.

Wow...at Great Harbour? Dont know who they good guy is but we all know who is the bad "guy"

In February I moored at the east end of that mooring field only to have someone come and anchor in 30 feet of water east of me and swing into me that night and then had to deal with drunk winch they left on the boat to go to Foxys.

send video...:)

You will think I am exaggerating but the Moorings boat has now attempted anchoring over 15 times. Has hit 3 boats and been fended off numerous others. They are still at it...

From my end of the binoculars it appears that they understand how much chain to put out but seem to think that the boat will remain exactly where it was when you started to drop the anchor...they have now headed into the shallows toward Foxy's so I suspect they may soon find a different way of fixing the boat to the seabed.

A different fight on another boatyball has just concluded. The evicted monohul is also now circling around trying to find somewhere to anchor. And...have just dropped right in front of another mooring...perhaps they are from the same anchoring-school as the first evicted monohull.

I hope they both stay away from us. Whilst it's not our yacht, so we shouldn't care...we take pride in returning our boats in same or better condition than we got them. Which seems to put us in the minority.

Edit - a third monohul just screamed in at high speed...and is now aground in front of foxy's.

Genuine muppet-show this evening!

I dont think you are exaggerating, brother...and like to return boats in same shape or better as well.

They are exactly trying to anchor where you really cant with radius and only 150 ft of chain...guy who hit me didnt believe it until he checked anchor watch

Hope you have a great rest of your trip

You’re either the show or you’re watching the show

Thanks!

I'd better stop commentating as I think this may go on late into the night. At present all 3 monohulls continue to cause havoc. Circling like sharks...on the original monohull the crew have retreated inside, leaving the skipper (if you can call him that) just motoring around aimlessly up and down with the anchor dangling just above water, smashing against the hull every now and then.

+1 for entertainment!

Well original monohull has now steamed out of GH at full speed...could be trying his luck at CGB? Or perhaps back to the Moorings base to demand a new anchor...because that one clearly didn't work properly!

Monohull 2 anchored in front of the boatyballs...too close. More chapters to that story I suspect.

Monohull 3 after going aground, managed to backtrack and picked up a boatyball just as another sportfisher squatter vacated it...they all looked a bit confused by the ball, so doesn't look like they are the rightful owners. Perhaps more chapters on this one also!

...on another tangent (sorry), half the mooring field (on mooring balls) have every possible light on...anchor light, steaming lights, nav lights, deck lights...every possible switch on that panel is in the 'on' position. This stuff worries me...it suggests a much broader lack of knowledge and understanding that is essential if you are going to be legally responsible for your vessel and the safety of those aboard.

Foxy's BBQ sure smells good from here though!

Or helping to create the show my friend....

+1

Well at least you’re getting something out of BoatyBall haha

Lol...well played Alec

The boatyballs are taller than a normal ball with a big steel ring on top. When they go under the bridge deck of a cat there is not enough clearance on most boats and you have a steel ring scraping fiberglass. You can avoid that and the balks banging the hulls by trapping the ball between the hulls on a cat.
G

I can see where that would be a problem on a cat.

captmoby - many of the restaurants and marinas have wifi. Nanny Cay has wifi at the marina. Omar's cafe, Cool Breezes, Neptunes, Village Cay, and the French Deli all say they are open at 7. If you have not been by the French Deli it is worth the stop. They have excellent sandwiches, desserts and their wifi is very fast. Cooper has wifi outside the coffee shop but it does not open until 8. Rhymers also has free wifi but they do not open until 7:30. Leverick has wifi by the pool. I have used wifi at all three of these to help reserve a mooring.

The moorings stand around 2.5 ft out of the water when there is nothing pulling on the pennant. We have had reports of the moorings bumping the hulls but we have had no reports of this causing damage. At Cooper the winds and current can cause havoc. As GeorgeC1 and a couple of other have suggested if you have a cat and want to prevent the moorings from hitting the hulls you can tie off in such a way that traps the mooring between the hulls. This also shortens the swing radius which can be beneficial at Cooper.

Anytime I am in a area where the boat can be backwinded or current and wind differ or it’s going to be calm at night I trap the ball. It makes for a quiet and peaceful night and will avoid problems with taller balls. The method I normally use is to take the Mooring pennant to one bow cleat. I then run a dock line through the steel ring on the ball and to the other bow cleat. As long as the lines are adjusted to less than the width between the hulls the ball cant bang on the hulls or get up under the bridge deck. Don’t pull the ball dead tight between the hulls. You can leave plenty of slack and be fine. I like to see about 45 degree angles on the lines to the ball. Strangely as much as I have complained about the height of the boatyballs it’s easier to do this with their balls because they are tall enough to reach down and run the dock line through the ring. Standard type balls require you to either hoist the ball up out of the water or use the dinghy. As mentioned a added benefit at a place like Cooper is reduced swing room. I see people all the time put two dock lines extended as far as possible through the pennant loop at Cooper. This extends the swinging arc substantially. In addition to the bridgedeck problem it can allow the Mooring line to get between the keels and props on a cat. The wind comes up in the morning and Houston we have a problem!
George

George should keep this valuable advice near the top of a page

This whole BB fiasco is another reason why cruising sailors are avoiding the BVI's like the plague. Besides high C/I fees and an unfriendly government, there is the increased cost of $40 for a mooring, something unheard of before BB in the usual BVI bays (excluding Peter Island of course). So the increased mooring fees are to create an APP, as BB keeps saying??? Geeze, any 16 year old wiz kid can knock that APP out in a hour or so.

There is an easy solution to the BB monopoly and increased mooring fees, just sail in the USVI where the cruisers are now!!! Just sayin'

...but how long until the BB plague crosses the border?!

The mooring balls in the USVI are all privately (individually) owned and not for rent unless you’re using a National Park mooring ball which are owned and serviced by the NP.

In addition to the NPS moorings in St John (only $26 or $13 with the Senior Pass), there are many free overnight moorings available in St Thomas - 20 at Christmas Cove, Little St James, and ~12 at Buck/Capella Island.

Head to Culebra in the SVI and you'll find 50+ free moorings throughout its many anchorages.

I was in Great Harbour last Saturday for Foxy's Music Fest / Full Moon Party. It must have been a few days before the 5 FCFS balls were converted to BB. All the FCFS balls were taken by mid-afternoon and several boats were anchored in the bay. Anchorage was packed but there was none of this mayhem. No boats getting kicked off mooring balls at sunset. Amazing how crazy the harbour becomes a week later with the conversion of 5 mooring balls from FCFS to BB.

BB has an effect on people

The free moorings you speak of are put there by the Department of Natural Resources and serviced by them.

The Spanish Virgin Islands are not everyones cup of tea.

Exactly. Which is what makes them so great. 124 watching this forum 11 watching US Virgins forum. Just trying to suggest an alternative for those pining for "the good old days".

Exactly! BB has solved zero problems and created loads! I don't get why this is even a discussion, it's clearly a half-baked idea that just doesn't work. This isn't uncommon to the BVI (Concorde runway at Anegada, runway expansion, BVI Airways) but usually it just costs some taxpayers money which gets siphoned off into corrupt politicians pockets and the idea dies a rightful death. How did this brainwave get the fast-track?!

I commend boaty ball for trying to make the BVI a better place.

There was never any guarantee of success for them.

I hope that BB is not committed to their vision no matter what harm they might cause.

Hey Christo, I hope you’re having a nice afternoon. We’ve been discussing changes to incorporate into the app and I figured I’d reach out to you and see if you had any input. If you were going to use the BoatyBall app what would you like to see featured on it or what do you think they could do better. I look forward to what you have to say. Cheers

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Re: BoatyBall #10705
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Christo Online content
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Hi Alec,

We are having a beautiful day in the BVI, thank you for asking, I hope you are also wherever in the world you are.

My honest response is that i'd pay 50 bucks a night to see them all returned to FCFS. It's worked in the Caribbean for decades, it works well and will continue to do so. The level of aggression and issues we have seen this year in the BVI is something we have never before witnessed. Boatyball is solely responsible for that. Besides all the other shortcomings that I have repeated time and time again on the forum. We found it interesting to hear how anti-boatyball the base-staff at Moorings/Sunsail were.

If you had left all the FCFS alone and added new boatyballs...you would have added value and choice to the mooring situation in the wake of the undersupply caused by Irma. What you have actually done is made things worse.

I'm sure I am getting a name on the forum for being negative about BB, but having been sailing here and throughout the Caribbean for 20 years I have very strong views, routed in experience and am vehemently opposed to the BB system.

It's nothing personal, but BB needs to be removed from the BVI. It has no place here.

I believe also there are a number of outstanding questions from others on the forum about BB that have gone unanswered. One member suggests for example that you do not have the work-permits required for the hands-on approach that has been taken by BB?...but there are numerous other questions outstanding.

I might also suggest that your lighthearted response to my posts about the mayhem going on in GH Jost a few days back that the 'entertainment' created was a positive thing that BB had created...are very ill-advised. Whilst it may be entertaining for those not involved to watch or hear about this mayhem, let's not forget that the bareboat charterers who were kicked off boatyballs late in the day and then found themselves unable to anchor...probably had that day/evening of their charter ruined. And that is on you Alec.

Yes, I am the first to say that if you don't know how to anchor then you have no place being a skipper...but, it's also true that when they tied up to the Boatyball (not knowing what it was) there were other FCFS balls free in Great Harbour. So without question, if BB didn't exist they would have had a good night. As it happens, who knows where they ended up, but it certainly wasn't the chilled day in the BVI they planned on having...or that they would have had if BB didn't exist.

I could, in true Denny-esque fashion continue for a few thousand words, but it's painkiller time and I suspect my words will fall on deaf ears anyhow.

👋👋

GeorgeC1 - thank you for your post. This is very helpful.

So basically you’re telling those who stayed up late the night before to dedicate a crew member to get up at daybreak and get to a cafe before 7AM and hopefully he’ll get a ball

I have been sailing in the BVI for 50 years. Not surprisingly, I have seen many changes:
1. Many more charter boats and charterers (I can remember many times with less than 6 boats anchored in the Bight)
2. Mooring balls introduced (along with a fee) to reduce coral damage and increase the anchorage capacity
3. Mooring ball fees (I think the first fees were $25) were a significant increase compared to anchoring
4. Need to go through C&I when going between USVI and BVI (I cannot tell a lie, I have sinned in the old days)
5. Irma dramatically reduced the number of attractive anchorages and maintained/available mooring balls while charter boats numbers rebounded more quickly
I chartered for three weeks in 2019 and found using BB a great way to optimize my vacation time. I can't remember how many days in previous years I have suffered from anxiety about if I would be able to be secure in my desired anchorage for the night and could still enjoy snorkel stops along the way. Arriving at my overnight anchorage before noon is not my preferred solution.

As an Econ major 50 years ago, I suggest everyone remember that this is a situation where demand is exceeding supply, If the number of mooring balls were always greater than the number of charterers desiring to use that anchorage, end of discussion. Maybe when BEYC, Saba, etc. come back, things will change.

Well it seems BB is good way for you to keep your anxiety down, but for most of us it’s just another restriction getting up early to make a BB reservation that suits the BB owners who don’t have to deal with the hassle.
We can’t just sail into an anchorage and find a nice spot to moor, everything is dependent on a reservation made at day break.
I’ll stick to the old way until it’s been replaced by the Politically Correct crowd.

+1 and


I wonder if the BB owners have to join in on the lottery when they are down in the islands?

They do control the app. Right?

Maybe someone from BB will chime in. Its my understanding that they are regulars down in the BVI

If by most you mean a couple of people on this forum then I’d agree with you

Alec, I only know 1 or 2 people that like BB. Most of those that I know are not speaking up. Just because they are not vocal means nothing.

I understand that Moorings sunsail does not like it.

I don’t think captain J is in favour.

There are many more.

I know of other charter operators that don’t like BB.