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Caravanserai now Alegria #29172
10/04/2014 10:08 AM
10/04/2014 10:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 21
NE, PA
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CindyO Offline OP
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A friend just got notice that their timeshare agreement with Caravanserai is voided, also agreement with exchange company RCI. So it seems that if they don't want to use that resort they can no longer exchange to go somewhere else. Anyone else it such a letter. What is your take?

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: CindyO] #29173
10/04/2014 12:15 PM
10/04/2014 12:15 PM
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Posts: 70,528
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Yikes.. That doesn't sound good, no exchanges..


Carol Hill
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: CindyO] #29174
10/04/2014 12:23 PM
10/04/2014 12:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,592
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Can they possibly do that? I thought the island was going to provide stop gaps to prevent this kind of stuff happening to the timeshare owners.


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: pat] #29175
10/04/2014 01:08 PM
10/04/2014 01:08 PM
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mechtech43 Offline
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I just got my letter via email from Alegria stating that they will offer you a hotel room at the resort if you pay to them what your annual fees were to Caravanserai. It sounds like another "screw the ts owners" from the St. Maarten govt.when they allow us to have no say on the outcome of the Caravanserai. They let Manek get away with murder and then will sacrifice the ts owners since we all should be able to afford the loss. What a country

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: mechtech43] #29176
10/04/2014 01:19 PM
10/04/2014 01:19 PM
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mecs Offline
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This thread has me worried.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: mechtech43] #29177
10/04/2014 01:39 PM
10/04/2014 01:39 PM
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Florida
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wilsonck Offline
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Just curious, are they trying to collect prior years maintenance fees or current year fees?

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: mechtech43] #29178
10/04/2014 02:04 PM
10/04/2014 02:04 PM
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Posts: 390
Perth Ontario Canada
BarMer Offline
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Quote
mechtech43 said:
I just got my letter via email from Alegria stating that they will offer you a hotel room at the resort if you pay to them what your annual fees were to Caravanserai. It sounds like another "screw the ts owners" from the St. Maarten govt.when they allow us to have no say on the outcome of the Caravanserai. They let Manek get away with murder and then will sacrifice the ts owners since we all should be able to afford the loss. What a country


Am I missing something here...isn't this what all timeshares do. After payment of your purchase price, you pay maintenance fees every year and use your timeshare.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: BarMer] #29179
10/04/2014 04:31 PM
10/04/2014 04:31 PM
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mechtech43 Offline
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If you get their agreement, they ask you to waive any conditions that you may have had prior (points, time of year, type of unit etc.) They only state that if you pay your money, if a unit is "available" will they honour your request for a unit but it could be in the summer or when it is not suitable to the former ts owner. It sounds that they want you to waive any rights you have in order to resell the units in the complex.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: wilsonck] #29180
10/04/2014 04:35 PM
10/04/2014 04:35 PM
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mechtech43 Offline
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I am fully paid up in maintenance fees. they are trying to get the ts owners to decide by November 1/2014 if they will agree to their terms on waiving any rights you had with the prior company. They are stating that the Bank of Nova Scotia never agreed that Manek could sell the timeshares and the sales were illegal.........

Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: Carol_Hill] #29181
10/04/2014 04:50 PM
10/04/2014 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,830
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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Can you post the whole thing, including sender's ID and contact info so we all can see it??? There's panic out there and most people haven't yet even seen the email. I'd like to get the full text to govt folks so they can get involved if any laws have been broken here.


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: CindyO] #29182
10/04/2014 05:18 PM
10/04/2014 05:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,830
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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This is the whole thing:

This is the agreement that Caravanserai wants all timeshare owners to agree to. It is posted at Agreement Letter
The cover email reads:

From: alegria operations <alegriaoperations@outlook.com>
To: alegria operations <alegriaoperations@outlook.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 4, 2014 1:47 pm
Subject: Timeshare Agreement status at THE CARAVANSERAI BEACH RESORT&#8207;

Dear Timeshare owner,

Attached please find a letter that is intended to update you on the status as a timeshare owner at the Caravanserai Beach Resort.

Should you have any questions or comments, please contact us directly via this email address or by telephone number 721-545-4000.

Sincerely,

The Management of
Alegria Operations N.V.


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: jmbcomms] #29183
10/04/2014 05:59 PM
10/04/2014 05:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,212
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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WOW. Looks like all the timeshare units were sold with out permission from the Bank and are now null and void. Feel sorry for the people duped. Looks like the only recourse is through Kildare Properties LTD which is probably no longer. It also states that Alegria can terminate their agreement if they want with you even though you sign the agreement. Not a good place to be in.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: jmbcomms] #29184
10/04/2014 06:20 PM
10/04/2014 06:20 PM
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Does this mean that people who bought a 1 or 2 bedroom now have access to only a hotel room? Could this mean that they will finish off the other two buildings as hotels and that is what the timeshare owners will have access to? This letter does not really explain anything.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: MrWhiskerssammy] #29185
10/04/2014 07:17 PM
10/04/2014 07:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,830
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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Exactly...clear as mud.


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: jmbcomms] #29186
10/04/2014 07:19 PM
10/04/2014 07:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 348
Columbus, Ohio
San Offline
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Well, this is pretty serious.

Jeff, can you help us find out more? The new owner wants us to pay our regular maintenance fee, that once covered a timeshare, that will now cover a hotel room?

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: San] #29187
10/04/2014 07:27 PM
10/04/2014 07:27 PM
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Posts: 11,212
Auburn, WA
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The way it reads I'm not sure if they are asking for the current MF or the original one they charged and was in effect at the time of TS purchase.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: MrWhiskerssammy] #29188
10/04/2014 07:52 PM
10/04/2014 07:52 PM
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Posts: 12,592
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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IF this is legal and IF it stands, chalk up one more black eye for the island of St. Maarten. I so hope the interpretations here are wrong for everyone's sake.


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: SXMScubaman] #29189
10/04/2014 07:56 PM
10/04/2014 07:56 PM
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The way I read it, you pay the equivalent of you MF to rent the room for a week. Which might be the standard room rate for the hotel and as a hotel you don't pay the money up front. And the kicker is "if available" ( which you probably won't know a week before your arrival date).

SXM??? Wendell

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: jmbcomms] #29190
10/04/2014 08:35 PM
10/04/2014 08:35 PM
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mecs Offline
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Maybe I am wrong but I thought the bank had assigned someone to overlook the running of Caravanserai for quite some time pending the sale. If the timeshare sales were going on openly in the lobby while being run by a bank assigned person then it seems to me that the bank therefore waived any objection to timeshare sales and in fact was giving approval to timeshare sales and even encouraged the sale of timeshares to maximize profit for the bank and attract a buyer. It seems disingenuous for someone to argue otherwise.

In fact it seems to me if at any time someone working at the front desk while the bank had taken over had printed out a charge or collected a timeshare tax from anyone staying there or cashed/deposited a timeshare maintenance fee then that person was acting as am agent of the bank and approving in writing the existence of timeshares at the resort.

Last edited by mecs; 10/04/2014 09:16 PM.
Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: mecs] #29191
10/04/2014 09:28 PM
10/04/2014 09:28 PM
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Posts: 11,212
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Looks like a very expensive $$$$ and time consuming class action suit in a St Maarten court that will probably never be settled to the satisfaction of the TS owners. Hate to say it but suck it up and run.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: San] #29192
10/04/2014 09:43 PM
10/04/2014 09:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,830
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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I can't answer questions now (no time) but I'm working behind the scenes to make some things happen.I need your help everyone...

*************
URGENT RE: CARAVANSERAI
*************

We are working on a lot of things related to this situation. Right now, we URGENTLY need to know a) if there is a Caravanserai Timeshare Owners Association; b) if so, who heads it and how we may get in touch with the top people (phone/email); and c) we need similar contact info for people who have a lot of ownership at the resort (many weeks / penthouse / etc.) Please do *NOT* put this info online; email it to jmbweb[at]jmbcommunications.com as quickly as possible, preferably during the day on Sunday. Time is of the essence to move forward on this situation... I need your help....


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: mecs] #29193
10/04/2014 09:45 PM
10/04/2014 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,830
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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EXACTLY! And by the way I like your shirts,especially his!


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: SXMScubaman] #29194
10/04/2014 10:14 PM
10/04/2014 10:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 166
Northern Virgina
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Okay, being relatively new to T/S ownership (9 yrs) this obviously sounds disastrous, especially to those of us who purchased our week outright back in 2006 (pre-construction)& who bought a 3 bedroom unit!!! We paid $20,000 for the week. I know of other T/S buildings that have been converted to hotels but the T/S owners have been asked to sell their units back and are paid a seemingly generous percentage of the initial purchase price up to about 75%. This seems like a TOTAL loss on the T/S owners behalf. No T/S unit, no compensation and loss of RCI points!!! We can't imagine that all of the owners will just walk away and chalk it up to a bad experience. Of course it is my gut reaction to hope that if this is the option we are left with that NOBODY EVER stays at the Algeria and that the new owners lose their investment of 12 million as fast as possible. I can see Trip Advisor and any other social media vehicle being bombarded with negative comments about the Algeria with hopes to spread the word about what a rotten deal the T/S owners received. I know that recourse for such actions in another country will probably be very difficult but doing absolutely nothing doesn't sit well with me either. We love visiting SXM so much and will continue to do so regardless of the actions of the new owners of Algeria but if this stands, we will take every opportunity and use every media vehicle we can find to discourage any potential visitors from choosing this "hotel" while visiting SXM.

Deb & Lena

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: jmbcomms] #29195
10/04/2014 10:27 PM
10/04/2014 10:27 PM
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mecs Offline
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Jeff...I sent you an email. Let me know if you did not get it. And Paul got a lot of use out of that shirt over the years! LOL!

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: DebNLena] #29196
10/04/2014 10:32 PM
10/04/2014 10:32 PM
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mecs Offline
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DebNLena

We have 2 Penthouse weeks so we feel your pain. And believe me I would not be quiet about this if they really do this to all of the loyal, repeat St. Maarten tourists who invested in Caravanserai and stuck with it through all of the difficult times. Shameful.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: SXMScubaman] #29197
10/04/2014 10:43 PM
10/04/2014 10:43 PM
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mecs Offline
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Yeah...I am a former full time lawyer who is now a stay at home mom. In the past 5 years my husband (at age 44) battled prostate cancer through surgery and radiation, my daughter got type 1 diabetes and went into a coma and nearly died, we lost 2 family members, a crazy former employee nearly destroyed our business, and I was diagnosed with a congenital peripheral nerve disorder. Despite all of that we have managed to stay married, protect our business, raise beautiful high achieving kids, and still donate to charity. We visit St. Maarten for 2 weeks every year and that is one of the joys in my life that is a respite from the stresses we have faced in life, and someone is tarnishing it. Suck it up and run is not in my genetic makeup. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: mecs] #29198
10/05/2014 12:02 AM
10/05/2014 12:02 AM
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Vancouver, WA
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Mecs, and others, did you receive a letter? I got a copy of one forwarded to me, but I still have not received a letter.

I am hopeful that next week we will have more clarity on the plan of the resort and what action we will have to take.

Good luck all,
T


“It is what it is. But, it will be what you make it.” Coach Pat Summitt (at least that is who I heard if from)
Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: Todd] #29199
10/05/2014 12:09 AM
10/05/2014 12:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 166
Northern Virgina
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No we have not received a letter.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: Todd] #29200
10/05/2014 12:15 AM
10/05/2014 12:15 AM
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mecs Offline
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Have not gotten a letter. Just copies sent by others and conversations with people.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: mecs] #29201
10/05/2014 07:01 AM
10/05/2014 07:01 AM
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Posts: 54
Charlotte
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Charlotte
We have not received our letter as of yet. After years of broken promises this will be disparaging. Not one to be a pessimist, but we will probably end up taking it in the shorts.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: mecs] #29202
10/05/2014 07:35 AM
10/05/2014 07:35 AM
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Central Florida!
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Wow, if the St. Maarten government allows this to happen, this will prove yet again that the only protection you have in buying a t/s is the integrity of the owners, like at LaVista. You have absolutely zero legal protection.


Carol Hill
Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: Carol_Hill] #29203
10/05/2014 07:57 AM
10/05/2014 07:57 AM
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Columbus, Ohio
San Offline
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There are 60 timeshare units for 52 weeks. In July of 2013 there were 2,056 weeks sold with 1064 weeks still available. With more than 2,000 emails to be sent out, they must be methodically contacting us. We also have not received a letter.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: San] #29204
10/05/2014 08:06 AM
10/05/2014 08:06 AM
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mecs Offline
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In July/August the people in the lobby office upstairs were relentlessly trying to get people to sell back their timeshare units and join a vacation club. At the time I told them it bothered me because it looked like they were trying to get rid of timeshare owners so that any new Caravanserai owner would have vacant rooms to resell once he fixed up the resort. We did not trade our units back in because we had sleep 8 units which are needed for our large family. It seems I was right and it also seems like they all may have known this action was forthcoming. It Smells.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: Carol_Hill] #29205
10/05/2014 08:10 AM
10/05/2014 08:10 AM
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Posts: 3,519
Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
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I think everyone is just rolling over and accepting this as a done deal which it very well MIGHT be...but...anyone can put anything in a letter and send it. It doesn't mean "the SXM Government" weighed in an approved it nor that the courts would uphold it if asked to become involved by those affected.

If anyone really wants to fight this I would think a signed right of use agreement for x years would be on their side. If THOSE agreements have no value then any right to use (not deeded) resort could "change hands" every few years and eliminate all purchases made and start over....and over....rinse and repeat.

I have no chips in this resort but it will set a precedent for all right to use "Vacation Ownership" aka "timeshares"

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: boucharda] #29206
10/05/2014 08:25 AM
10/05/2014 08:25 AM
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Posts: 12,592
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Great points, all.

If the new owners persist with this attempt to force the timeshare purchasers into submission, it sounds like a good island lawyer is needed to bring this before the Dutch courts and resolve the issues once and for all. You all purchased in good faith and since the convening Dutch authorities are already questioning the integrity of the island governments, this might be a good test case to see where they really stand. Sadly, this wouldn't be an inexpensive solution.

I can't help but wonder what will happen to those who are scheduled to stay there in the next few months while this is resolved. I wish you all good luck. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Caravanserai now Alegria #29207
10/05/2014 08:45 AM
10/05/2014 08:45 AM
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What is the difference in the new change for owners of one or more weeks versus those that actually own the unit for the whole year?

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: boucharda] #29208
10/05/2014 08:59 AM
10/05/2014 08:59 AM
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Northern Virgina
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If my memory serves me right, the units are deeded for 99 years. I am also in possession of the lease agreement which states that we have the right to occupy and use our unit until the end of 2020.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: DebNLena] #29209
10/05/2014 09:10 AM
10/05/2014 09:10 AM
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Did you buy the actual unit or did you buy individual weeks for use at designated times of the year?

We were to rent from what I believe to be an owner of the entire unit. I have seen them advertised for 3-400k.
The owner of the unit we were to rent for week 4 this year does not respond and I think this new ownership issue is the reason why. We are now committed to a different unit and I am glad based on all this uncertainty and chaos. I hope the owners of weeks or the units do not get the short end.

Re: Does Anyone have the full text of the email? [Re: murphycpcu] #29210
10/05/2014 09:22 AM
10/05/2014 09:22 AM
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Northern Virgina
DebNLena Offline
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We bought an individual week but opted for points as opposed to weeks. The points allow us to trade into a smaller unit if we want for a longer period of time. We bought a week in a 3 bedroom penthouse but have been trading into Royal Islander for the past few years in a 2 bedroom for 2 weeks. The points can also be used for other travel, cruises, etc. Seemed like a much better deal at the time.

Re: Caravanserai now Alegria [Re: CindyO] #29211
10/05/2014 11:16 AM
10/05/2014 11:16 AM
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SXMWendell  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,266
Been watching threads like this one for over a month. And some of the comments I really don't understand.

Lease holders were told the place would be finished in 2 years. How many times was this extended? Did this have all the adminities promised? Do you see a pattern here? I feel that his property has been a mess from day one and for some reason the leaseholders just kept putting up with the abuse.

I am really surprised the bank didn't shut down the resort. They are in the banking business NOT the hotel/TS business. They don't want to be in the hotel/TS business. Banks don't like their losses to get bigger, ie paying additional water, light and wages.

Then when the resort sold. I see comments like " Now we can see things get better finally". No one knew/knows what the plans of the new owner are. The place didn't make it as a TS and went back to the bank. So maybe the new owner might not go that direction?

I see this tread about the new owner dropping the TS business and now some lease holders want to fight. Don't you think the new owner had a team of lawyers investigate what could and couldn't be done before they even made the bid on the place? If the lease holders do fight ( which could take several years) do you still have to keep the yearly MF's up to date ( even if they triple) or be in breach of contract? How much money will it take ( or you want to spend) to take them to court? What happens if the new owner sells the place. Will the legal fight have to start all over again (send more money)?

And leaseholders want to blame the new owner for exercising their apparently legal right. As the same as you want to fight for, but apparently the new owners have more rights to the property.

SXM??? Wendell

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