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Help a reluctant charter coordinator! #30483
12/16/2014 12:51 AM
12/16/2014 12:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
The largest sailing group I've ever organized was 4 people, it was our first charter. It was a disaster mostly because the guest couple thought they were going on a luxury cruiseliner. Since then, it's been just my wife and me and we have it mostly down to a science. Now my wife has told her nephew and niece if they both graduate we will take them sailing as our graduation gift. Simple enough, but you know it never is...

So the nephew is a US citizen but the niece is Greek. They attend college in England/Wales so will be coming from London. Oh, and now the nephew wants to bring his girlfriend - ok but we aren't paying for that plane ticket! At least the niece and nephew are certified to charter and she has raced small boats competitively since she was around 10.

So we'll be coordinating 5 people and dealing with transportation, provisioning, boat size and cruising ground restrictions due to visa requirements if we take the boat from the BVI to USVI.

So, for those of you who have been in the position of setting things up for a group how do you go about it? To start I'm thinking either a largish (50'+) mono with 4 cabins or a 40'+ cat just for space and privacy and storage space but our budget is not unlimited and I usually find discounted boats. We usually do almost all our provisioning the first day and except for a few things along the way we are fine for two (and we eat on the boat almost exclusively) but I don't think we'll get away with that with 5 of us.

How do you communicate between two parties? Is it helpful to have cell phones? Should we try to meet up in STT or just have everyone meet at the boat?

How do you do provisioning - account for different tastes and such. I think my wife has a good idea about the niece/nephew but we have no idea about the GF.

What about assigning chores and duties. Is it better to ask, take a vote or what? With just the two of us she picks up balls and works the anchor and cooks. I handle the boat and do dishes.

I think she has sort of promised that we will try to take them to Vieques in the SVI to see the bioluminescent bay, we've sailed there before. Would it make sense to just get one of the big monohulls from Island Yachts (the 485's have 3 cabins and we've chartered with them twice before) and skip any immigration issues and the ferry/taxi issues to the BVI's?

Oh, and we just returned from the BVI's on Dec 9 and three days later my sister-in-law and sister got together and decided they wanted to do a charter with us. So, after this one they seem to think I'll be coordinating three couples! I need help...


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
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Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30484
12/16/2014 03:54 AM
12/16/2014 03:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,996
U.K. and Spain
Jeannius Offline
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Jeannius  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,996
U.K. and Spain
Quote
So the nephew is a US citizen but the niece is Greek. They attend college in England/Wales so will be coming from London. Oh, and now the nephew wants to bring his girlfriend - ok but we aren't paying for that plane ticket! At least the niece and nephew are certified to charter and she has raced small boats competitively since she was around 10.

So we'll be coordinating 5 people and dealing with transportation, provisioning, boat size and cruising ground restrictions due to visa requirements if we take the boat from the BVI to USVI.
Well the Greek niece needs to get herself a B1/B2 U.S. visa or you can forget about USVI and SVI. She needs to start now because if she doesn't get one, the plans change massively. If Nephew's girlfriend doesn't hold a US passport then the same applies to her.

Personally, I wouldn't be worrying about any of your other concerns. Yes, it can be difficult dealing with another mature couple and their needs as you've already found out. Organising a good time for 3 late teens, early 20's is really easy... just show them enough sun, sea, sand and alcohol and they'll have a great time.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: Jeannius] #30485
12/16/2014 07:07 AM
12/16/2014 07:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,151
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Posts: 2,151
Ontario, Canada
I too think you are worried too much. If you get a boat in stt, it's easy to await everyone's arrival and it eliminates the ferry issues of going to bvi.

Take everyone to do the provisions.

Maybe someone likes cooking.

Thr boat should hold enough provisions for the week.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: warren460] #30486
12/16/2014 07:30 AM
12/16/2014 07:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
salica Offline
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salica  Offline
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Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
If most of the guests are coming from Europe, they are unlikely to come to St Thomas. Most likely will arrive Beef Island via Antigua, although other routes are available.. Flying via the States generally works out a little cheaper but takes considerably longer - unless they are staying with you or other friends/relatives en route. Very, very easy to collect from Trellis Bay.
The most important thing is to talk about it all in advance so everyone knows what to expect : they should be aware of cabin size, number of heads, fact that noise travels easily, maybe you like to make the most of daylight and don't appreciate people lying in til mid day, sharing washing up (no dishwasher) and maybe couples take turns to prepare and cook meals. Stuff like that can make a lot of difference if they aren't sure what to expect.
You will have a great time if everyone is relaxed and easy going.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: salica] #30487
12/16/2014 07:39 AM
12/16/2014 07:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,277
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline
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CaptainJay  Offline
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Posts: 1,277
Saint Thomas, USVI
If your going to the Spanish Virgins, then yes rent on STT. Flights for the Americans will be cheaper and the logistics of getting people together will be easier.

Get the visa for the European passenger. You already know Skip does a good job so if you want the mono that will get the job done. If you want a cat we have a 40 Footer at CYOA with four cabins and four heads as well as generator and air conditioning that's only a year old.

Sail Pending

Jay

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: CaptainJay] #30488
12/16/2014 08:39 AM
12/16/2014 08:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
salica Offline
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salica  Offline
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Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
The OP says the younger guests are in college in UK and will be flying from London.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30489
12/16/2014 08:54 AM
12/16/2014 08:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 663
Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
caribbeangirl13 Offline
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caribbeangirl13  Offline
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Posts: 663
Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
Personally, I would fly everyone into Tortola so you don't have to worry about clearing in and out with all those different nationalities. Especially since the niece is Greek and the girlfriend possibly British. My college age kid and cousins far prefer BVI to USVI and SVI.


Sue
s/v Ripple
Leopard 40

[Linked Image]
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: caribbeangirl13] #30490
12/16/2014 10:52 AM
12/16/2014 10:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
I also agree you are over thinking things. More often than not, our trips have been large groups. We've had at least 3 trips where we've had between 8 and 9 of us on the boat.

For provisioning, I email the group and ask if there are any requests and let everyone know what we are thinking for meals. We also provision online so I share the order and everyone is free to make requests/suggestions.

As far as helping out on the boat, as captain I let everyone know when help is needed and direct them. We've fortunately never had an issue with everyone pitching in for some task. That may be cooking, cleaning the dishes...etc. Everyone is usually very good at helping out.

Probably the biggest challenge is getting everyone there, but I always leave that up to everyone to do themselves and just give them guidelines on options of when and where they arrive.

And finally, I usually send out a rough itinerary so if there's any requests there they can get some input as well.

In over a dozen trips, this had worked very well for us.


Matt
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: maytrix] #30491
12/16/2014 11:20 AM
12/16/2014 11:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,392
Maryland
Kirk Offline
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Kirk  Offline
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Posts: 1,392
Maryland
And try not to sweat the little stuff...

Last trip there were 8 of us. I emailed people about any provisioning needs letting them know I get the big stuff ahead of time. I asked about soda as I know more than a couple of them drink diet soda and also use it as a mixer. So the question was diet coke or diet pepsi. Nobody had a preference so I got got a few cases of diet pepsi. Well damned if they didn't buy six-packs of diet coke every chance they got all along the trip! The diet pepsi just took up space. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


Kirk in Maryland
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: Kirk] #30492
12/16/2014 12:07 PM
12/16/2014 12:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,347
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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LocalSailor  Offline
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Posts: 1,347
USVI
Before hand I would communicate about any serious food issues, allergies, gluten free, vegan etc.
I do think staying in the one country will ease your citizenship concerns.With different arrival times I would suggest everyone meets up at the charter base or your 1st night accommodations.
3 young people will have little problem enjoying themselves without much input - well maybe a little advice and oversight!
If they are arriving in STT - their Immigration issues will be taken care of before they leave the airport terminal and shouldn't present any difficulty clearing in to BVI. Leaving from the USVI would not be a problem then, however if you do plan a visit the SVI you will still have to clear C&I there FYI.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: LocalSailor] #30493
12/16/2014 12:22 PM
12/16/2014 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,114
West Palm Beach FL
bviboater Offline
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bviboater  Offline
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Posts: 1,114
West Palm Beach FL
Regarding Visa's,there are single entry and multi entry visas make sure they have multi entry visas if you plan to enter the US go to BVI and go back to the US.


John
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: bviboater] #30494
12/16/2014 03:27 PM
12/16/2014 03:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,250
Oslo, Norway
Jorgen Offline
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Jorgen  Offline
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Posts: 2,250
Oslo, Norway
Quote
bviboater said:
Regarding Visa's,there are single entry and multi entry visas make sure they have multi entry visas if you plan to enter the US go to BVI and go back to the US.


And remember that the Visa Vaiver program, that most Europeans can use, is only good for entry by plane or ferry. If you enter by yacht, you need a proper visa.


Jørgen
[Linked Image]
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: Jorgen] #30495
12/16/2014 04:57 PM
12/16/2014 04:57 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 397
jbuch02 Offline
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jbuch02  Offline
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Posts: 397
[color:"blue"]The largest sailing group I've ever organized was 4 people, it was our first charter. It was a disaster mostly because the guest couple thought they were going on a luxury cruiseliner.[/color]

Completed a charter for 6 aboard a Beneteau 43, 4C, 2H, with crew members coming from 4 US cites and one from Switzerland.

The make up of your crew as you described it sounds like a good mix compared to the one above. The fact that the GF has some sailing experience helps a ton. She will be able to anticipate once she gets the lay of the boat, its rigging and sail handling equipment.

[color:"blue"]So the nephew is a US citizen but the niece is Greek.[/color]

The advice above about basing in the USVI is spot on.

[color:"blue"]I'm thinking either a largish (50'+) mono with 4 cabins or a 40'+ cat[/color]

You are thinking correctly. You'll get a mono for a bit less than a cat I would think and if you are more comfortable with a mono (like I would be) than a cat that's your best bet. 4C and 2h and there are plenty of nice offerings out there in that range. I got a lot of advise here that 6 on a 43 was too many. Worked OK except a little tight in the cockpit or salon for meals otherwise no problems. I should point out that my 4 kids and one son-in-law have all sailed extensively, independently and with me so we are familiar with tight quarters and potential issues when 6 people get inside of what amounts to a small U-Haul.

[color:"blue"]We usually do almost all our provisioning the first day and except for a few things along the way we are fine for two (and we eat on the boat almost exclusively) but I don't think we'll get away with that with 5 of us.[/color]

Split provision segments of your charter. After your first segment,think about having stores in Cruz Bay (for St. John's) and Riteway (most mooring areas around Tortola)deliver to you. Buck's in Spanish Town VG will also deliver. You can place phone orders on the fly so you don't get locked into a particular schedule. Beer, wine and liquor are considerably less expensive in Tortola than elsewhere. USVI refreshment prices are going to be higher. Go light for those provisions and load up in Tortola environs.

[color:"blue"]How do you communicate between two parties?[/color]

Three options: (1) Make sure everyone has an international dialing plan. In the USVI there is fairly good cell and 3G/4G coverage from ATT (and others) but watch roaming charges if you are ATT and pick-up a Verizon tower. Just shut off roaming on your phone to prevent that.(2) Everyone buys sim-cards or preloaded phones locally for local service. Plenty of well priced options there. This may be cheaper than international calling plans for US residents. (3) There are several free VOIP phone Apps that if you have an internet connection (not 3/4G) you can communicate enroute/as you gather. We used Viber. Easy to use. Google it.

[color:"blue"] ......meet up in STT or just have everyone meet at the boat?[/color]

I favor your second option. Our group of 6 came from 4 cites in the US and one from Switzerland. We had three others staying in a Condo at Leverick. The logistics were complicated. Everyone was on their own to get there. The deal for me was I paid for the charter (and the condo). I kept track of everyone's flight arrangements, we used Viber to communicate progress or announce delays (there were none). I flew into EIS a day before the charter and stayed at Nanny Cay Hotel. My son arranged for a water taxi for 5 from STT (where everyone else flew into) right to Nanny Cay/the dock where the boat was. The VG Condo group made thier own way to Leverick via Tortola Ferry and got the usual great service from Nick who helped arrange pick-ups, reservations and stuff. Smooth as silk.

[color:"blue"]How do you do provisioning - account for different tastes and such. I think my wife has a good idea about the niece/nephew but we have no idea about the GF.[/color]

We had one "galley wench" (my daughter who loves to cook aboard and is very good at it) as the chief planner (suspect your wife might do well at that). She developed a meal plan (2 meals a day, the rest were off the cuff or left overs) upon which we based the provisioning list. She asked for input from all of us and a deadline for that. After that, you don't like it?, too bad.

My son was the bar tender. He did all the beverage planning asking us for inputs along the way. We used the rule, "less is more" and still ended up with too much Gin, Vodka and Tonic and not enough wine/beer and Club Soda .... consumed at an alarming rate because it is an excellent elixir after too much to eat and drink the night before. One size does not fit all and your mileage will vary.

[color:"blue"]What about assigning chores and duties.[/color]

Your going to get a ton of different input on this. Here's what I did:

We had a purser (handled all the money for mooring balls, ice, grab something provisioning and extras). For a 7d charter each person kicked in $75 The $450 covered most everything although "Dad" probably paid more than his share. It covered one $200 lunch out at the Baths.

We had a Captain (me). I did NAV, safety and general commanding of the sails and rigging. My kids have sailed with me extensively and know who is in charge. That's going to be a different dynamic for you. My recommendation is that you subtly let people know that there are certain things you will be in charge of and we're not voting on those things.

Pilot (my daughter who knows how to read charts). Her job was to point out visual land marks and channel markers as we made an approach to a mooring area or docks, keep a sharp watch on the depth and, when necessary, go forward and look for coral heads.

Foredeck crew (my son and my daughter's husband). direct the Captain to the mooring ball and handle the hook up/make the boat secure in a slip with appropriate dock lines. Both know how a boat is properly tied up. Recommend you don't assign this role to someone who has no clue but DO let people learn by assigning a novice with someone who is experienced.

I also downloaded the operating manual for the boat we chartered in .pdf format and sent it to everyone in advance. My son-in-law, a good mechanic in his own right, was responsible for learning power plants and fuels. Every morning he checked belts, fluids, cooling before we cranked the engines to charge the batteries. My son had Electrics, refrigeration (AC and coolers) and Plumbing.

What all this tended to do was make the boat briefing go really quickly because the guy doing it at the charter base realized immediately we knew the boat pretty much cold before we got on it. It also led to a very smooth, trouble free operation of all systems as well as quick trouble shooting and repairs when needed.

I also asked everyone to know how to put a reef in the mainsail and sent them pictures of how to do this. We never did put a reef in but that is something all crew should understand how to do it.

As we approached Norman Island on our first day in calm seas and little wind. I threw a seat cushion over board, climbed up on the cabin top and announced I just fell overboard. My kids have experienced this with me before. It took them about 5 minutes to organize themselves, drop sails, get the boat around and pick up the seat cushion from the stern platform. Very impressed! I'd recommend you walk your crew through this. It can be fun.

Final comment on this: My kids all laughed at me when I assigned duties. After the charter they told me it was the best thing I did (except for pay for the charter of course!).


PM me or drop an email to [email]jbuch002@gmail.com.[/email] I'll be glad to help out with any questions you might have.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: jbuch02] #30496
12/16/2014 05:57 PM
12/16/2014 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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sail2wind  Offline
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Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
and you have only one charter under your belt?

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: sail2wind] #30497
12/16/2014 11:39 PM
12/16/2014 11:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
Traveler
beerMe  Offline OP
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Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
Thanks everyone for your answers, it's amazing the wealth of knowledge here. I hear loud and clear I really should chill out a bit, not sweat the small stuff. Usually good at that but I got burned pretty bad on the first try!

As much as my wife would like to take them to see mosquito bay and to see the bioluminescent bay again herself, we are both starting to think that since they are coming from London and Virgin and British Airways have nonstop flights to Antigua it might be a better choice this time. We haven't made up our minds yet but we have sailed there twice and enjoyed it. None of your advice is in vain, we still have the three couples trip coming up and although the girls will be fine I have a brother and a brother-in-law that could be hard to please. Also, my wife's sister and husband will probably sail with us in the near future and they are from Greece so all of the visa waiver/visa advice is very helpful.

As for the provisioning, communications and chores/duties I think there was some very good advice. Finally, special thanks to jburch for taking the time to post so much information! I have all of this bookmarked and will be referring to it before each big trip.

Again, thanks to all and anyone feel free to add more tips.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30498
12/16/2014 11:40 PM
12/16/2014 11:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
If you have people that are hard to please, make sure they understand what things will be like upfront. Personally, hard to please people don't get invites on our trips, but since it seems you don't have a choice I think that's the best way to deal with them - setting the right expectations.


Matt
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: maytrix] #30499
12/16/2014 11:48 PM
12/16/2014 11:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,035
Buffalo, NY
LauraTheTshirtGal Offline
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LauraTheTshirtGal  Offline
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Posts: 4,035
Buffalo, NY
and don't "promise" anything, that is tempting Murphy's Law. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> We sketch out a very loose itinerary ahead which is fun to plan but everyone is very clear that these are just guidelines.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: maytrix] #30500
12/17/2014 12:23 AM
12/17/2014 12:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
Glad you brought that up, it's only been 13 years and I still want to get it off my chest - you are absolutely correct about expectations. After the first fiasco we always tell anybody interested that it's more like camping on the water. We mention we are cheap and usually don't eat out so there is cooking and cleaning to do, that it might sprinkle at night and you might have to wake up and close all the hatches and then wake up again when it stops and that might repeat more than once. It can be rocky, hot, humid...

My "friend" who's sum total boating experience is waterskiing, behind my boat, was always questioning my movements usually at the point of highest stress, like when docking. His girlfriend who played the primadonna came from below, plopped down in the cockpit, turned and said "can someone hand me my coke". At the time my wife was slaving in the galley trying to get ready to go and I was fighting with something, exhausted and covered sweat on deck; no one had offered to help. Funny thing is they begged us a year later to do it again? They broke up, she soon married and guess where their honeymoon was? Bires Creek Resort on VG! That was probably her expectation for a Caribbean vacation. I have 100 other stories like this. Anyway, somehow we failed to set expectations and a few rules - after knowing them for some time I didn't know he needed to feel in control and she wanted to be pampered. I think you're right, I'm going to send and email to both my brother-in-law and brother and make darn sure they know what to expect (in a nice way and maybe even exaggerate a little). Thanks maytrix


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30501
12/17/2014 12:38 AM
12/17/2014 12:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
The hatch dance can be avoided with genset and A/C. And if some people in the group want to eat out more - I'd say let them. Just be sure to work it out ahead of time so you don't under provision.

Regarding the hand me a coke, that sounds like an expectation issue smile I guess it would be good to remind them - this is not a cruise. This is a sailing trip - everyone on the boat is crew. Everyone will need to pitch in from grabbing a mooring, taking trash ashore, cleaning dishes, cooking and even cleaning the boat a little.. I'd say its more like renting a cabin in a remote area than camping. There isn't a maid or chef.

When at the helm, if someone starts making suggestions on how to do it better - ask them if they want to do it. And let them know that once they take over, they are then responsible for the deductible on the boat if they damage it. That might shut them up. smile

I guess we've been really lucky or perhaps I just know everyone we've invited well enough to know they're a good match. Only once did we have someone I didn't know at all and he wasn't demanding or anything, he just didn't help out much.

Good luck with the planning!


Matt
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: maytrix] #30502
12/17/2014 01:15 AM
12/17/2014 01:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Memphis, TN
Thanks for the good luck.

We only had a boat with a genset once and it was Sept and a hurricane passed about 75 miles south. We hid out in CGB for two days all closed up due to rain and the AC came in really handy but we were in the forward cabin. What do people think about sleeping in the rear cabins of a mono or the rear cabin on the charging engine side of a cat? I thought it was a little too noisy to be considered white noise.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30503
12/17/2014 01:36 AM
12/17/2014 01:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,035
Buffalo, NY
LauraTheTshirtGal Offline
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Buffalo, NY
Last trip, my brother thought it would be neat to bring his GF who he already knew was not a fan of boating. Well we found out not only does she not like boating, she doesn't like flying or people or heat or swimming or snorkeling or food of any sort unless it's slathered in ketchup. You can pick your friends but you can't pick your relative's girlfriends.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: LauraTheTshirtGal] #30504
12/17/2014 01:43 AM
12/17/2014 01:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 374
San Diego
BarleyMan Offline
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Posts: 374
San Diego
Our cruise club allows RCI guests to trade in for a week on a catamaran. While the members are old hands at the comforts of a 40 FT boat, with 10 people on board, it's always a crap shoot with the new guests. A good crew usually figures out how to manage it without too much hassle, but expectations are important. Camping on the water is a good level set, but on the nicer boats it's like a really nice RV on the water. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: LauraTheTshirtGal] #30505
12/17/2014 01:57 AM
12/17/2014 01:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Memphis, TN
Quote
lauraandrex said:
Last trip, my brother thought it would be neat to bring his GF who he already knew was not a fan of boating. Well we found out not only does she not like boating, she doesn't like flying or people or heat or swimming or snorkeling or food of any sort unless it's slathered in ketchup. You can pick your friends but you can't pick your relative's girlfriends.


What was she thinking? I totally understand different personalities/likes I just don't understand why the have to hide it from us ahead of time. If only ketchup would have solved my problems I would have bought gallons!


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: LauraTheTshirtGal] #30506
12/17/2014 02:09 AM
12/17/2014 02:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
Quote
lauraandrex said:
Last trip, my brother thought it would be neat to bring his GF who he already knew was not a fan of boating. Well we found out not only does she not like boating, she doesn't like flying or people or heat or swimming or snorkeling or food of any sort unless it's slathered in ketchup. You can pick your friends but you can't pick your relative's girlfriends.


lauraandrex,

Quote
lauraandrex said:
Last trip, my brother thought it would be neat to bring his GF who he already knew was not a fan of boating. Well we found out not only does she not like boating, she doesn't like flying or people or heat or swimming or snorkeling or food of any sort unless it's slathered in ketchup. You can pick your friends but you can't pick your relative's girlfriends.


What was she thinking? I totally understand different personalities/likes I just don't understand why they have to hide it from us ahead of time. If only the lack of heat, sun, people, flying and some ketchup would have solved my problems I would have bought gallons! I feel your pain. Bet that won't happen again!


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: BarleyMan] #30507
12/17/2014 02:23 AM
12/17/2014 02:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
Traveler
beerMe  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
Quote
BarleyMan said:
Our cruise club allows RCI guests to trade in for a week on a catamaran. While the members are old hands at the comforts of a 40 FT boat, with 10 people on board, it's always a crap shoot with the new guests. A good crew usually figures out how to manage it without too much hassle, but expectations are important. Camping on the water is a good level set, but on the nicer boats it's like a really nice RV on the water. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />


Yes that's how I feel but I admit people skills are not my forte and I hope that a nicer yacht will make up for some of my shortfalls. I like the analogy but I might be better served to portray it as hell on water with my my brother. Hopefully, he will either be scared off of enjoy it since his expectations were set so low. I don't completely understand it but I do accept it for what it is and I'm not going to feel responsible if someone don't like it, I just hope they don't mess it up for me!


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30508
12/17/2014 02:58 AM
12/17/2014 02:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 374
San Diego
BarleyMan Offline
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BarleyMan  Offline
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Posts: 374
San Diego
Yes... it only happened a few times where I have gotten close to my line. I fight very hard not for other people to disrupt my vacation mindset. I practice avoidance...I grab a Carib and go sit on one of the dolphin seats. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30509
12/17/2014 07:07 AM
12/17/2014 07:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,996
U.K. and Spain
Jeannius Offline
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Jeannius  Offline
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Posts: 3,996
U.K. and Spain
Quote
beerMe said:
Thanks for the good luck.

What do people think about sleeping in the rear cabins of a mono or the rear cabin on the charging engine side of a cat? I thought it was a little too noisy to be considered white noise.
In my boat the noise of the air conditioning units was more intrusive than the sound of the generator. That will usually be the case as generators are normally in sound-deadening enclosures whereas the ac units are inside the boat with no sound deadening.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: Jeannius] #30510
12/17/2014 10:29 AM
12/17/2014 10:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,545
Here and There
rita_irvine Offline
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rita_irvine  Offline
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Here and There
My brother and his wife have joined us on 5-6 BVI charters. I love them both dearly and my SIL and I travel together without much fuss. She and my hubby start to grate on each other after about a week of a ten day charter.

Whenever we have had people with us Tim has felt like he was in charge and everyone else was on vacation. Even though people want to help if you are not a sailor it is not an instinctive thing. Like tying up the dingy. Tim would always check the knot after someone else ties it up.. Drove my SIL crazy, she had learned how to tie knots and was mildly insulted that he did not trust her ability. He told her after you have tied it correctly 20 times I might skip a time or 2 checking, but my name is on the contract and I am responsible for making sure it is right.

We find it more relaxing just the two of us. We have been married 35 years and pretty much know what the other is thinking..


Rita
It is better to be happy than it is to be right

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Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30511
12/17/2014 10:34 AM
12/17/2014 10:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
Quote
beerMe said:
Thanks for the good luck.

We only had a boat with a genset once and it was Sept and a hurricane passed about 75 miles south. We hid out in CGB for two days all closed up due to rain and the AC came in really handy but we were in the forward cabin. What do people think about sleeping in the rear cabins of a mono or the rear cabin on the charging engine side of a cat? I thought it was a little too noisy to be considered white noise.


Never stayed in an aft cabin on a mono as we always stay in the forward cabin on ours.

One a cat though, we always stay aft. Although all the cats we've been on have had a genset so we haven't had to charge with the engine. Things are pretty well insulated though. As said above, the A/C is louder than the genset in MOST cases. We did have one cat once where the genset mounts must have been loose - it was noisy and shook a lot of things.


Matt
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: maytrix] #30512
12/17/2014 10:40 AM
12/17/2014 10:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,545
Here and There
rita_irvine Offline
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rita_irvine  Offline
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Posts: 2,545
Here and There
The other thing I would add is that a lot of people have said they wanted to go on a trip with us. Even had started making plans with a few of them. When the rubber hits the road and monies are due for deposits the pool suddenly empties. Make sure you have a clear policy on canceling. Especially with young people. They have no clue how much time and energy goes into selecting a boat and procuring it or how hard it can be to change a boat once you have a deposit on it.


Rita
It is better to be happy than it is to be right

[Linked Image]
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: BarleyMan] #30513
12/17/2014 11:05 AM
12/17/2014 11:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
Traveler
beerMe  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
I think I'll make rule number two "don't cover up all my caribs with your soft drinks". Rule number one being about the head.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: Jeannius] #30514
12/17/2014 11:39 AM
12/17/2014 11:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
[/quote] In my boat the noise of the air conditioning units was more intrusive than the sound of the generator. That will usually be the case as generators are normally in sound-deadening enclosures whereas the ac units are inside the boat with no sound deadening. [/quote]

Hum, the only boat we had with a genset was an older Hunter and I can't remember if it was in an enclosure or not. If it was there is a good chance the cover wasn't put back on right or some of the seals/insulation weren't in good shape. I don't recall the blowers being that noisy but I can see how they could be. Next boat is probably going to be a cat with A/C so I'll pay attention.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: rita_irvine] #30515
12/17/2014 11:59 AM
12/17/2014 11:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
Quote
rita_irvine said:
My brother and his wife have joined us on 5-6 BVI charters. I love them both dearly and my SIL and I travel together without much fuss. She and my hubby start to grate on each other after about a week of a ten day charter.

Whenever we have had people with us Tim has felt like he was in charge and everyone else was on vacation. Even though people want to help if you are not a sailor it is not an instinctive thing. Like tying up the dingy. Tim would always check the knot after someone else ties it up.. Drove my SIL crazy, she had learned how to tie knots and was mildly insulted that he did not trust her ability. He told her after you have tied it correctly 20 times I might skip a time or 2 checking, but my name is on the contract and I am responsible for making sure it is right.

We find it more relaxing just the two of us. We have been married 35 years and pretty much know what the other is thinking..


As my wife has gained experience I find it harder to check her work. Sometimes I wait till after dark to fix something.

We too find it's best with just the two of us. Once in Francis Bay I watched an old couple come in on their own small boat just as the sun was setting. Neither spoke a word they had the routine down. Once the boat was taken care of each came out of the cabin with a cushion and a book and read till dark. Then the cabin lights were on just long enough to make and eat a meal and then lights out. Next morning they were gone. It was a surreal experience for me.


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: beerMe] #30516
12/17/2014 01:14 PM
12/17/2014 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
not all aft cabins on monos are alike, on a center cockpit boat, the cabin is huge. The center cockpit also allows for the A/C and generator to be in the large engine room.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: sail2wind] #30517
12/17/2014 02:19 PM
12/17/2014 02:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
rstevens Offline
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rstevens  Offline
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Posts: 98
My wife and I usually take at least six other people with us, relatives and/or friends. We've had as many as 10. Most of the people we take have been with us before, but they know that I am serious about safety and will refer them every time to safety tips I put together from comments made on this forum... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AfTmhz9wGZyxGm98-FVAOYqVO7OZa-6HEAeFyjVo6vU/edit?usp=sharing

That kind of sets the tone for the voyage.

I ask everyone if there is anything they won't eat and what their beverages preferences are, then order provisions through Riteway... http://www.rtwbvi.com/ on Tortola and have everything delivered. Beverages are usually ordered from Tico... http://ticobvi.com/

An evening start helps deal with late arrivals and allows everyone to easily stow their stuff into their berth, get used to climbing around the boat.

The first meal together that night is at a restaurant, so we can relax, get to know each other and talk about what to expect.

After a boat briefing, I leave the dock with as few people as possible involved, especially newbies. I just tell them to relax and watch for the first day or so. After that, I will allow them to help sail if they are so inclined. I let everyone handle the helm while making sure they don't do something they shouldn't.

I always charter a 50' or larger monohull with a generator and A/C. Just makes things more pleasant for everyone.

Sometimes I have to deal with a recalcitrant crew member, so I just take them aside privately and help them understand that we are all on vacation and to wait until the trip is over to express any negative feelings about anyone or anything.

I have had kids as young as five-years-old and grandparents on the boat. I give everyone several options so they feel like they have some say about what to do (snorkeling, manning the helm, reading quietly, playing games, a ride to shore in the dinghy so they can go exploring, etc.)

I enjoy cooking, so I begin the trip by doing that myself and asking if someone can cuts some vegetables or whatever. If someone else wants to cook, I let them. I make sure everyone has a chance to do the dishes afterwards.

I usually wake up before the sun broaches the horizon, make some coffee, check the weather, and plan the day. Often, as soon as there is daylight, I will start the motor, cast off the mooring and head for a destination. Everyone on the boat usually knows I don't need assistance, that they can take their time getting out of bed, and that the boat will rock a little bit. (If there is much chop, I will ease off the throttle.)

Most of the crew usually feels like this is the best vacation they have ever taken, even though they were uncomfortable at times. For me, it is the only vacation I will ever take.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: sail2wind] #30518
12/17/2014 02:23 PM
12/17/2014 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 397
Colorado
stormster Offline
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stormster  Offline
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Posts: 397
Colorado
My word of warning: make sure everybody being invited actually likes water and the ocean.

We have lots of friends where one half of the couple really, really wants to come and says they'd love to come. Then you question the other half of the couple and you discover that that person is so afraid of water they won't take a bath or hates immersing themselves in water or gets seasick very easily.

I'm not joking. This has happened to us many times. So I always talk to everyone who wants to come and never take their partner's word for it that they'll enjoy it.

(We did take one couple where the woman was not crazy about sailing, boats nor swimming but she'd done it a number of times and was willing to go. She was a real trooper.)

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: stormster] #30519
12/17/2014 02:44 PM
12/17/2014 02:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,392
Maryland
Kirk Offline
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Kirk  Offline
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Maryland
You might also want to find out if anybody is on any medication that you might need to know about....and if necessary where it's kept, any side-effects, should they be drinking alcohol while they're taking it....uggg.


Kirk in Maryland
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: stormster] #30520
12/17/2014 03:03 PM
12/17/2014 03:03 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 850
C
Cleobeach Offline
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Quote
stormster said:
My word of warning: make sure everybody being invited actually likes water and the ocean.

We have lots of friends where one half of the couple really, really wants to come and says they'd love to come. Then you question the other half of the couple and you discover that that person is so afraid of water they won't take a bath or hates immersing themselves in water or gets seasick very easily.

I'm not joking. This has happened to us many times. So I always talk to everyone who wants to come and never take their partner's word for it that they'll enjoy it.

(We did take one couple where the woman was not crazy about sailing, boats nor swimming but she'd done it a number of times and was willing to go. She was a real trooper.)


I mentioned on another thread we explored doing a crewed cat charter twice and the above is a reason we decided not to do it.

Our best friends are great travelers. Three of the four in the group used to live together, we really know each other. I think they came up with the charter idea but when it came time to commit, the wife half said sorry, but she liked her 20 minute, scalding hot showers, icy AC and king-sized bed (often alone) too much to give them up for vacation and she would be happier on land, in a villa. I appreciated her honesty.

The next time, it was my husband who "bailed" on me, the same husband who was 100% on board the first time. He just didn't like the idea of a small cabin (he thinks a queen bed is roughing it and referred to the owner's side of a large cat as a "casket") and having limited choices as it related to meals.

The charters we were considering started well above $12,000 so I didn't push it.

Maybe some day......

Last edited by Cleobeach; 12/17/2014 03:03 PM.
Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: Cleobeach] #30521
12/17/2014 04:16 PM
12/17/2014 04:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
rstevens Offline
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Good note about medications. Two years ago one of our crew was a young man who was diabetic. He was careful to keep his medicine cold, but discovered that it had frozen. Not sure if it would be ok to use, we had to make a quick trip to a pharmacy who gave him what needed without a prescription. Pharmacists are different in Tortola.

Re: Help a reluctant charter coordinator! [Re: rstevens] #30522
12/18/2014 11:06 AM
12/18/2014 11:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
beerMe Offline OP
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beerMe  Offline OP
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Memphis, TN
Thanks rstevens,

That's a good idea to send them the Sailing Crew Safety Tips ahead of time. I liked the one about not laughing at the captain the best.

Were people able to sleep in the rear cabins with the AC/genset going?


Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
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