Alegria (Caravanserai) Today

We have rented privately at Caravanserai for the past 2 years, but decided not to this year because of the on-going debacle. However, we still have a soft spot for the place and went to check it out; late Saturday night it was like a ghost-town, Sunday night there were about 25-30 people around Marty's bar, which seemed normal for this time of year. The entrance signage has been changed and updated to Algeria, and there is now royal blue strip lighting around the front of the main building. There are more poolside loungers and umbrellas, plus new tables and chairs by the bar. We walked around and found the elevator still isn't working; a fresh coat of paint on the main building and new room direction signs have been added. The reception has been redone and is much brighter and more professional looking than before, but still needs a bit more work; a new light fixture sans dead bugs now hangs from the ceiling! When leaving the pool area going into the reception area, we noticed what looks like an exercise room had been installed upstairs. Cannot comment about the interior of the rooms, but from what we saw it looks like the same old, same old but with possibly less people. Mary's Dream bar is still a great place to go. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the report. Wonder if they will EVER get those elevators working?

Not a big incentive unless they get the first floor full.

SXM??? Wendell

Update, we went to The Dream tonight for happy hour and walking by the elevator I pushed the button. Lo and behold it worked. Hubby went up one floor to see if it actually moved. That's progress for you!

Wow, stop the presses on that one!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> ...although if you go by again tomorrow, it probably won't be working! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

By the way, I just have to say that your profile picture is beautiful! Any chance you could post a larger version of that picture here?

Well I am sure hubby will want to go to The Dream again, it just keeps calling, so will try the elevator again. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I can definitely send a bigger picture, however, it will have to be done when I get home, as it is on another system and I can't access it from the laptop we are using now. I took that picture 2 years ago, it's a green throated caribe. I saw one last night but didn't have my camera with me. I'm always on the hunt for the elusive hummingbird, and once in a while get lucky and get one. Takes a lot of patience though.

OK, if you do get by there again, keep us posted!

OK on the picture. I suspect that one isn't the only beautiful one you have!

Wandered over to The Dream for happy hour again, hubby really likes it there; found out the elevator was only fixed yesterday. I'll check it out later in the week to see if it is still working.

Yes, I have several good bird pictures from different places. They are so elusive and hard to capture. Haven't got one on this trip yet, but I'm ever hopeful.

OK, keep up that on the spot reporting! I'm sure that it is a big sacrifice! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Smile.gif" alt="" />

Your hubby is brave! I wouldn't have gone in or up for fear it would trap me!

I was thinking the same thing, Rosemary!

Your hubby is brave! I wouldn't have gone in or up for fear it would trap me! [/quote]

That's why I didn't get in! Hubby was a bit apprehensive pushing the button too.

I will be there on the 21st of Feb. Hope the elevator is still working by then and that things improved in the rooms... Will post when I get there

Change is coming soon....

I to use to own at Caravanserai and was lucky enough to sell two years ago to another owner there. But like the other poster still have a soft spot for the place. Went by yesterday the 12th. at about 4:00 pm. Place was dead. Hardly anyone there compared to past years of us staying for our two to three weeks. Decided to go over to Sunset for a drink and do a little plane watching. Came back at 5:20 and only 4 people at the bar. Talk to Marty for maybe 10 minutes. He didn't sound overly confident about what his future was going to be. Looked around not much signs of life. Definitely not like it was when we owned there. Also the tell tale sign of no one there was there was tons of empty parking spaces. That was always an issue in the past. Don't like the new colors at all. They painted the place white with dark blue doors and dark blue outside light fixtures. It clashes with the A building next to it.

Would not set foot in this place after what they did to 2300 people, including the so called Dream Bar.

Get real. The new owners bought a resort in bankruptcy with no obligation to go forward with the timeshare owners. They are sinking new money into the resort to make it into something. It's going to take time. It's not the new owners fault people lost out, it's business.

2300 of us think there was/is obligation.

It's not that simple. The bank was well aware timeshare sales were going on, even though they claimed to the new buyers they never gave that authority.

The SXM courts didn't and the last minute association has to pay the court cost for Alegria as per judge decree. Has anyone heard if they have been paid?

SXM??? Wendell

I realize it's a hard pill to swallow but I believe the court did make a ruling in favor of Alegria. Disgruntled people will have to learn to move on. No different than buying a stock in a corporation and they declare bankruptcy. Stocks are then worthless.

Everyone, please keep in mind: "It ain't over until the fat lady sings" ... and it's only just begun. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duel.gif" alt="" />

Its over and seems to me simple to understand. Its a new company, new owner with no more obligation of the former owners debts, contracts or problems than another other bank foreclosed property in the world after its legaly auctioned off. You buy and house,car ,etc and you don't pay the bank you loose it then someone else buys it, end of story. That property has had problems over and over for years and years. The new owner did not mess it up or take our money, the other guy did so why is he the scapegoat to some? Hard earned money never nice to loose but its time to face the facts, to me it soooo over.

I think the fat lady sang.

Huhm, OK, I thought the Caravanseri 'owners' had been totally thrown out on their ears by the courts. What else is going on?

And weren't they supposed to pay Alegria's legal fees for taking them to court?

SXM??? Wendell

Have no horse in this race, but I think the new Alegria owners are wrong because it's bad for business. When you have 2300 disgruntled parties, the word gets around to avoid the place. They should have come up with a better solution agreeable to all parties. If you can't generate revenue during high season how long can you hold out unless you have really deep pockets. It's not the same as US bankruptcy, more like stealing from those who trusted the bank. Caravanseri owners were equivalent to stockholders who had no representation in the final judgement. In this country the bank would have been sued and held liable along with the previous owner.

No the bank wouldn't be sued. The property would be auctioned off on the courthouse steps with a reserve price of the amount of the loan due. Which normally the bank is the only bidder. BUT IF you could get all 2300 of the TS "owners" to come up with the $14M in an account to purchase then they would become the real owners. The"owners" recourse would have ended on the court house steps.

As for SXM I never heard of the Caravanseri "owners" putting a group together of any kind till it was too late. And as for what they think their legal right is the Judge pretty much was totally opposite of the last minute TS "owners" group. He ordered them to pay for Algerias legal fees.

SXM??? Wendell

SXM??? Wendell

No, the bank would have been held liable, nor would the previous owner.

I don't know, I have no horse in this race either, BUT, if you come right down to it, there really are not a huge number of larger strictly HOTELS on the island. Most of the larger places are timeshares, which have their own issues in terms of booking. They MAY well be successful, from bookings from people who have no idea what Caravanseri was, IF they can get their issues--like the elevators!!--fixed. They'd have to spend some money for advertising, but they could be successful, IF they improve the product.

What they are going to have to do is price themselves below market for a while till they get a clientele built up. Then they can possibly raise prices. Also for this year they were late to get bookings for high season.

SXM??? Wendell

Yes, I actually expect that is what they will do, reduce prices to get the place full, once they get some of the issues resolved.

Considering they are asking for up to $335 a night (for off season this May), I don't think they are following that plan right now.

Actually, I just looked at dates in March and it was under $200 a night for Heineken Regatta, so I think they are reducing prices closer to the time.

They appear to be taking steps to reverse the negativity surrounding the place; if you follow Trip Advisor you will find that all negative reviews have been removed for Caravanserai/Alegria. I didn't realize this could be done, but apparently it can and has been. We also found out that people booked at the Sonesta for an "all inclusive" vacation, are being sent to Alegria if the Sonesta has no rooms available. It appears they aren't eating or drinking there, just sleeping there. So there must be some arrangement between the two resorts.

All time share owners on the Island should boycott Alegria. By hitting them in the pocketbook maybe then they will get the message that they morally did the wrong thing to 2300 owners. The St. Maarten government has no idea which end is up, they better stop drinking the kool aid and get with the program.

That is one of the flaws with TripAdvisor. There are often very slanted reviews and ratings of places. Applebee's or another chain-type restaurant often is ranked higher than a really good independent restaurant with a good reputation.

Boycott what? I don't understand.

SXM??? Wendell

I don't have a dog in this fight but how is the "boycotting" of Alegria by "owners" who don't own there going to take place? People that "own" elsewhere are not going to go to Alegria anyhow and I am sure they would not consider buying anything there now.

Have you even owned stock in a company that went bankrupt or totally out of business? I have and it is the same scenario as this. You are left with a worthless piece of paper.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

I didn't proofread my comment. I meant to say that the bank would NOT have been held liable.

Several of you keep blaming us for investing in a business that went bankrupt. You are invited to go back to the earliest postings and refresh your memories. There was no bankruptcy but a possible flaw in the laws.
This saga may not be over.

What flaw?

SXM??? Wendell

And the "[color:"red"]possible flaw in the laws[/color]" is not something that is likely to be fixed retroactively. This did not happen in the US and even if it did, there is no assurance the "owners" would be protected. I feel for the people who got sucked into this mess but "due diligence" should have been exercised.

Personally, I looked into the timeshare concept about 30 years ago here in the US. The first moment I was told I was basically "locked in" to a given week and there was "no cap" on maintenance fees, I knew it was not for me. Not saying it is not a concept that works for others but right then I knew there were risks I was NOT willing to take. That and the BS the salesperson gave me about getting discounts on airfare to match my travel dates even made me more skeptical.

Exactly

..and re: Trip Advisor. I agree that there are some questionable reviews of all their listings BUT it would make no sense to keep any reviews after the property changed hands and changed from a timeshare to a hotel under the name of the new hotel. What happened in the past under previous owners shouldn't apply to the new place.

They should keep the Caravanserai reviews there and start a new resort review link...

They should keep the Caravanserai reviews there and start a new resort review link... [/quote]

They've actually done that; current reviews for Algeria now appear on the old Caravanserai site as well, and all the old (good and bad) reviews from the old Caravanserai site have gone. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

Ahhh...when I just looked I saw the reviews for the previous Caravanserai going back to 2004 still posted and three reviews for the Alegria newly posted on the Alegria site.

Don't know what the "removed reviews" statement refers to.

Someone else said that. How can it NOT be over? My understanding is that the judge dismissed the case filed by the Caravanseri 'owners' and ordered them to pay the other side's fees. What is not over?

As with many things in life facts do not always change beliefs..

If a person believes it is not over then it is very easy to ignore any facts that dispute this...

The only thing I see is if The Bank allowed fraudulent sales of timeshare units when BKO proceedings were already starting to take place

.. which argument was made originally to the judge, I believe..

Unfortunately until the disgruntled owners finally accept defeat that was issued by the court this will never be over in their minds. It's really time for them to move on.

It truly sucks, but it's like anything else that closes its doors and files for protection. New owners are under no obligation to keep the resort the way it was, heck they could have turned it into a shopping mall! And like JD said, if you own stock in a company and they file, your left with nothing. Unless fraud can be proven I to think they are out of luck, and even if proven they won't gain anything and it will cost more in courts. At least that is how I remember it when I worked in collections

If you are not one of the "disgruntled owners finally accepting defeat" -as someone here callously refers to and he shamelessly directs this remark to 2,200 families- then your opinion is just that: an opinion that is unsubstantiated and absolutely worthless. For me and for all of the other previous Caravanserai timseshare folks who are affected, I wish to thank all TTOL members, and this board, for your continued support and understanding. We are sure that if the shoe were on the other foot (yours!) and you were affected, you'd feel the same way.

Ah, I own in Mullet Bay, I purchased a timeshare within a resort, with that purchase came the benefits of EVERYTHING around me, so while I didn't lose my weeks, my "investment" is worth nothing what it was, I couldn't sell units that i paid 30k for, had to give them away to get off the hook for maintenance. But I had no recourse. So I do have a grasp on what your situation is. Sorry if you don't like my opinion. Wasn't trying to be rude. I just don't understand what recourse the owners think they have. And a I said if fraud can be proven I would think that is grounds for a lawsuit. But if bankruptcy and business closes and new owners don't offer units as timshare or want to work with previous owners of the new defunct property it shouldn't be their obligation to do so.

Since you quoted me and I suppose that your response was directed to me and not Kim I'm responding to your post. If you look back at previous posts by me I did sympathize with your situation. But you have to realize the odds are against you for recourse and the courts have deemed so. Life goes on and if you dwell on this all your going to do is miss what else St Maarten still has to offer. Swallow your loss and rent from another resort. Heck for the MF you were paying now you can rent a place where and when you need it instead.

i have been quietly following this topic for months. and yes i can understand your anger but it took me about 15 seconds to find this US FTC web page: http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0073-timeshares-and-vacation-plans

it appears this was a "right to use" timeshare. much like that 'life-time warranty' its not your life-time rather its the company's life.

further the web is filled with "timeshare dangers". you can complain about the new owner, the government, the guy behind the curtain. in the end it was the failure to do REAL due-diligence that is the real issue. a/k/a live and learn.

The judge did not grant injunctive relief to the owners, thereby allowing the new Alegria owners to proceed with moving forward with their new resort. That did not, however, mean that the matter was over or that Alegria other involved parties were blameless or will not ultimately be found liable. The injunctive relief was an "emergency" type of action to allow people to continue to use timeshares in the high season. It did not go to the merits of the overall underlying potential case which could involve more than one party or entity. Whether that will be pursued, or be successful, is not yet determined. But I do not want to go into further detail at this point. I just wanted to clarify that the original suit was purely an emergency injunctive action to try to help people who were being displaced.

What was the ""emergency" type of action to allow people to continue to use timeshares in the high season." ?

SXM??? Wendell

If you and your family had planned a vacation, paid for rooms and flights, and were told you could not use the rooms because you did not pay the new owner?

And what happened for these reservations ?

SXM Wendell

That is why I am asking. The announcement was prior Nov.1 Which gave your family some some options.

Which now is Algeria is a hotel.

SXM??? Wendell

You asked to better understand the "emergency". I tried, but failed to give you one of the many examples that existed.

To the original point of the thread .....
The rooms are quite nice. Look to be recently refurbished, king bed, fridge, microwave, 2 ring hot plate. Efficient central air.
Following from earlier comments, the elevator works too.
Not sure if it is just the color of the tile, but the pool looks a little skanky from above.

Some people do not have unlimited funds to have "options" if they prepaid for a room (or several rooms) and paid for airfare during high season and then found that they had no where to stay. The action was partly injunctive relief to allow people to keep their reservations pending further action. People who were at Caravanserai were being moved in the middle of their stay. If this would have happened when we were there it would have been chaos for our family, as we had brought 20 people to the island, 16 of which were staying at Caravanserai in two sleep 8 penthouses and a one bedroom. It would have been next to impossible to keep our group together and we had children and families that needed to stay together. Whether people feel Alegria had the "right" to do what they did legally, which really is not a decision that can be made without all of the facts, it still does not change the fact that a lot of people had to scramble to salvage their vacations without breaking the bank, and the injunctive action was partially an attempt to help those people.

And what a lot of people are forgetting is that many Caravanserai "owners" did not even know about what was happening at Caravanserai/Alegria (some STILL may not know) as the notice given was appallingly deficient. The only notice given was an email that vaguely referenced "timeshares ownership" and was titled "Alegria" and did not mention "Caravanserai" in the heading at all. Had I not know that Alegria was the new name of Caravanserai because Marty had told me, I would have thought the email was another "get rid of your timeshare" spam email and never opened it. Many people never saw the email and showed up in SXM oblivious to what was taking place. A lot of people who go to SXM do not visit travel sites like TTOL and get info about whats going on. This is especially true of people who used their usual unit at the same time every year and had no reason to suspect things had changed. But it also was true if they booked through RCI, because RCI did not notify us of any change to our RCI reservations until January of 2015 and were not notifying other Caravanserai owners either because (according to RCI reps I talked to at length) they were as confused about what was going on as the rest of us.

Ok, that clarify's some. But the "emergency" relief was the Letter offering a stay at Alegria for the price of the MF's or another agreement/court action?

Thanks
SXM??? Wendell

That "emergency" relief offered in Alegria's initial emailed and very confusing letter (1) was not seen or received by everyone, and even if it was, it (2) forced people to relinquish any potential claim without having any facts behind what happened, and (3) did not guarantee same size units or anything at all really. So it was not "emergency relief", it was giving up.

So a group of affected people who knew of what was going on tried to get a stay on the "ejection" and eliminations of timeshare rights until they could look at what had led to the whole situation and determine who, if anyone, was at fault. The situation was very confusing and unclear and very open to the possibility of fraud or collusion and people were (and are) investigating. The injunctive relief stopping the "termination" of rights was not granted, but it did not stop the injured parties from investigating whether there is any other form of relief, and it does not stop them from investigating whether there was any wrongdoing on the part of Manek, Endless Vacations, Sidhom, Alegria, the bank, or another other parties. There may or may not be fault. There may or may not be economic relief. There may or may not be collectible damages. But the right to look into this is something that anyone should have and pursue if they so desire, even if the only result is to raise awareness or stop it from happening to others.

Ah, ok
Thanks

SXM??? Wendell

Over today for our final visit before leaving paradise. Latest to report - a whole bunch of new beach umbrellas waiting to find their homes by the pools. Impressed! Great time at The Dream was had by all, going to miss that place and the good people there. Until next year ...............

We are here now. There have been improvements. It's a slow process for this island so they have done a good job. Especially since new ownership took over during hurricane season. The elevator finally works consistently. Great wifi but only on balconies. Lots of pool chairs and umbrellas. 24 hour security that actually walks property. Staff is much more friendly and if you request something you no longer wait days till its done. All new furniture, mattress is brand new. Very few people here but this place is going to be a gem if they continue ue this way. Don't agree with how this happened but I am pleased some one is making improvements.

Did you rent a room or was it a mf deal that they offered? Just curious.

We took the mf deal. We didn't spend that much on our timeshares and didn't have much to lose like many others. We just wanted to come back to our favorite place. Apparently they are offering the same mf deal for next year. We can reserve it now if we like

that might actually be a good deal for next year. The condition of the resort should be pretty good by then.

So it looks like accepting the AMF deal was the best choice. At least you got to return to stay in the resort for the same price you are used to. I wonder how long the agreement will last

I wonder whether they would offer that deal now to people who didn't originally accept it?

As long as they need a steady flow of recurring revenue to jump start the business?

I think that is as long as it will last. Once they have it to the level they want the. We believe our offer is null. They are also looking to put in a 5 star resterauns once ther current leases are up in two years. It all depends on how much you lost. We have not lost anything as we have been coming here 18 years and feel we got our money's worth. If you check rent on the island weeks 9&10 it's expensive. We are with three other couples who all have the same opinion. However others have lost upwards of $100,000. That makes a difference in their perspective and would in mine too.

Not sure how Marty's dream bar is doing. Not really busy from what I can tell.