Paradise damaged (crime report)

My wife and I have been going to St Martin since 2001 and have never had anything bad happen not once.

This trip was completely different to say the least.
On June 6 at 8:00pm we decided to stop at our favorite restaurant to make reservation for the next night. I am reluctant to provide the name of the restaurant because we do not want to harm his business. Let’s just say it’s in the area of the Simpson Bay Yacht Club by the Scotia bank in that area.

We parked in the same area we have parked at least 20 times; the parking is about 50ft away from the security shack for the yacht club.

By the grace of God since all I was planning to do was running in and make reservations, I told my wife to lock the doors and stay in the car and check in with our Daughter. Good thing she did.

When I exited the car I was immediately was confronted by a youth wearing a black hoodie pulled tight around his face. He had his arms extended towards me and I caught a glimpse of something shinning. He did not say anything, within 10 seconds someone from behind me hit me in the head. I did not go down immediately so he hit me again, at that point I started yelling for help figuring the guards would come to my aid, which by the way they did not. At that point they leg whipped me and I fell to the ground, when I was on the ground they proceeded to kick me several times. At that point the only words spoken by the thugs was to stop yelling. One of them put his foot on my head and proceeded to lift my wallet. The sad part is if in the beginning they would have just asked I would have given them my wallet with no need for violence. What I was unaware of was that one of them tried to get into the car after my wife. She started blowing the horn, lucky the doors were looked.

The coward security guards at least call the police.

The police show up and wrote down the information but said if I wanted to file a police report I had to go to the police station. Another fact about the security guards is one lied about the direction the thugs ran, my wife saw them run away.

When I got back to Club Orient the young man at the desk helped us cancel our credit cards. The following morning on the way to the police station we wanted to stop and tell management about the young man who helped. Both the managers we great and contacted the America consul to the island. He informed me what to do and he was going to call ahead, I will not get into the runaround I got trying to file the report even with the help of the consulate(SP).

We went back to Club O and never left the grounds. I did receive a call from the Police on the way to the airport that they had my wallet. When I went to pick it up. I thought I would have asked a simple question, where did you find it? They told me they had no idea (figure that out). The credit cards were there but the money was gone and they took my badge. The badge had very little monetary value but great sentimental value.

One thing I learned don’t rely on the security guards, this was told me by the Police.

Will we ever go back? Too early to tell. My head isn’t clear yet from the concussion.

I would like to thank the the whole staff at Club Orient and all our great friends at Club O. We have already stated that the guests at Club O are the friendliest people on earth.

Before all this happened we have a great time on Peggy and Paul’s nude cruise. Thanks Captain Paul and Muriel.

I am not writing this to scare people but to make them aware that things like this happen. Unfortunately, they happen everywhere else in the world.
Walt

Sorry you had to experience this. Things need to change on the island.

so serry to hear of this horrendous experience. Hoping you heal quickly.

Wow. So sorry to hear this. I hope you are able to physically heal soon.. Best wishes.

We are sorry this happened to you. These thugs are getting bolder, just 8pm and in a busy area, one we have walked around time and time again. We hope you have no lasting ill effects.

That certainly is the final nail in the coffin for me. We were debating a final trip to SXM next year with friends, former Pelican owners, but I'm done. Such a shame! Hope you heal quickly Walt, so sorry this happened on what was once my favorite place in the world.

Thanks for sharing your scary experience. I, too, cannot understand the need for violence - it's just so very prevalent in our world today. Thoughts & prayers for your recovery and hopes that these lowlifes are caught and punished to the full extent. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

so sorry to hear this -I keep hoping that the police will get a handle on the rising crime rate but guess not yet. I'm also sorry to hear that a long time visitor won't be returning.

Goodness, what a frightening experience! I would never anticipate that happening so early in the evening, and in particular in that area.

What a terrible experience in a place we all come to love and stay. It is very easy to post our thoughts and try to comfort the victim of these horrific crimes against tourists. But I try to put myself in his shoes and what an awful terrifying situation and find it hard to just excuse it as another crime in SXM that happens all over, even on other islands. That's okay to say but when you are the victim in this case I feel very sympathetic and hoping you recover soon. Totally understand if you never want to come back. Crime is out of hand and nothing is being done about it!

Sorry you had this experience. Hope you recover quickly.

After reading of the tourists that was robbed on Billy Folly Rd at 10:30 PM last week I was having second thoughts of ever returning. Your experience has removed my second thoughts. Maybe if the powers to be get serious and rectify this crime problem I might think about returning and spending my tourists dollars.

Again I hope you have a speedy recovery mentally and physically.

Wendell

So sorry to see this happen to you, and also hope a quick recovery for you. I am surprised you were even able to finish your vacation!! The presence of mind you had to have you wife lock the doors, I am certain they were trying to take the car, too. Thankfully she could honk the horn and get them the heck out of the area, but so sad. Isn't it true most security guards can't have guns, and of course the thugs know that. Time for more police walking presence on the island, and in truth, I have seen that during busy season. What next, back to cruises for people???

Walt has been a TTOL member since 2000. That's a long time.

You didn't get into details about your injuries, but it sounds like you really got roughed up. I know that Club O is the reason that a lot of folks go to SXM, but that does not apply to me.

Thanks so much for sharing, as now I will delete TTOL from my internet experience and will never consider another trip to SXM.

[quote]SXMWendell said:
Sorry you had this experience. Hope you recover quickly.

After reading of the tourists that was robbed on Billy Folly Rd at 10:30 PM last week I was having second thoughts of ever returning. Your experience has removed my second thoughts. Maybe if the powers to be get serious and rectify this crime problem I might think about returning and spending my tourists dollars.

Again I hope you have a speedy recovery mentally and physically.

Wendell [/quote}
Exactly!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> So many think that it will never happen to them. Walt is just like any one of us and he unfortunately met with this horrible incident. How many posts have we read that this has happened to????

So sorry for you, but thank you so much for posting. We return for our 7th trip this November and your experience reminds me not to let my guard down just because we are on a tropical island far away from NYC.

I don't think that he let his guard down-really scary-main street Simpson Bay-8:00 pm-jeez!

So very sorry to hear about your awful experience!! I'm to the point myself thinking about not returning. During my visit in March, persons at the SBR were robbed on premises while I was there and it truly frightened me. I thought being in a place with security I had no worries...NOT! These punk thugs need to be taken off the streets,but I don't see the island doing anything about it. Wishing you well in your recovery, both physically and mentally.

Thank you for posting. I always want to be updated on anything going on St.Martin. Honestly I do not go out as much as I did in the past. I do lunch with friends and spend the evening close to the villa. It is very sad that even I can write this. Sincerely, Wendy

I printed Walt's op to show our friends, the former Pelican owners, it was so sad to see their reaction. My first visit was in the mid 70's, I was a FDNY firefighter and Viet Nam riverboat gunner, not a great deal scared me. There was no crime and we walked around Marigot late at night, cocktails aplenty, never had an issue or felt threatened. I'm pushing 70 soon, waiting for shoulder surgery so I'm basically 1 armed and don't feel I can protect my wife. Hopefully the powers in SXM will read these posts and take action, if not the island is doomed, what will it take to get their heads out of the sand. I was flamed here a few years ago for suggesting that traffic stops for tourists who might have had 3 wines with dinner was a bad allocation of police resources, so this is what we are dealing with. Good luck SXM, been a good ride.

Walt, I am sorry to learn this happened to you and your wife, and I hope you both heal soon although the whole experience will probably never escape you. This island that relies on tourism for 85% of its existence is going downhill fast. Remember that not all SXM visitors are TTOL members or check in with this site, and I can only imagine the number of criminal acts that take place, like yours, that doesn't get advertised on the net. The government doesn't care is the truth. Period.

And now it is 9 days later and I have seen nothing of this in the newspapers. Makes you wonder how many more unpublished incidents there are.

Wendell

Dear Walt, I hope you have recovered emotionally and physically, what a horrible situation you had to deal with especially away from home with no comfort from friends and family. My thoughts are with you.
Be well,
Ellen

We are currently on island and we're talking to another couple staying at SBR who were approached by two young men while getting out of their car by Jimbo's last week. It was around 8 pm, I believe. The one guy had him trapped between his car door and the building wall, but he apparently managed to scare them off when he stood up out of the car and asked what they wanted (he was a pretty big guy, apparently much bigger than the thugs were). It could have been a lot worse. Scary.

Thanks for the report. We are on island now and have definitely oiled our heads on their swivels. 2 nights ago (before reading your report) we ate at toppers (parked right in front of bar). We had no issues but noticed several youths hanging out in the parking lot. We discussed as to whether they were up to no good or perhaps the owner wants them there to scare off others. Definitely not security guards. Ate at chesterfield last night and they have a great, well lit, fenced parking lot with a gate card. Again, thanks and keep your guard up.

We always found Chesterfield's to be a good dining choice, breakfast, lunch or dinner. Nice to read they have extra security in place however it worries me that this should be necessary in the first place, once one leaves their property they are on their own.

Sounds like the same 2 guys. I out weighed the guy by 50lbs and could have "bum rushed him" against another car but I thought twice because of what he had in his hand.Bobcat as I said in my post don't put much faith in the security guards.

Yes Walt, we enjoyed Sint Maarten / St. Martin for many years, now we enjoy Aruba, so much safer, easier to get around, much more to our liking as we grow older.

In fairness to the security guards, their job is to protect a certain property. So, if they leave their post to help, the property they are paid to protect goes unprotected. They DID call the police. Think about it from their point of view. What if those two guys beating you up was a ruse to get the security guards out of their place so that OTHERS could go an rob whatever they were protecting.
Damned if they do, Damned if they don't unfortunately and it stinks all the way around. It certainly gives me pause as I often considered that the more violent robberies occurred late at night. I am so sorry this happened while in SXM or ANYWHERE.
I hope you start to feel better and have no lasting ill effects.

So sorry for your experience! Sad to hear. In April another couple and us ended up walking from Taste Factory to a restaurant, quite a ways down from there. Didn't remember how far it really was until we started walking. I was nervous because of stories I had heard and kept telling the others in the group to be careful...watch surroundings etc. We probably arrived at the restaurant around 5:30? and it was probably 8 or a bit later when we walked back. We chose to walk mainly due to a huge traffic jam on the street. We were walking faster than the cars driving. Sad that you can't be out and about enjoying the evening.

So sorry this happening to you and your wife. Hope you are on the mends physically and emotionally.
We had a bad experience years ago and it was a few years before we felt comfortable enough to come back. If it wasn't for the Club O experience I don't think we would have ever returned.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife.

Walt,

We are forty year plus visitors and I have to tell you, while personally speaking we've been pretty lucky, hearing about things such as this are heartbreaking on many levels.

I am so sorry to learn of what happened to you and relieved your injuries weren't worse than they were. I hope the physical healing process is rapid and complete. The emotional healing - that's a whole different thing and I understand completely the memories will never go away. It's a sad thing to think that as we age, and we all do, we have to give up the places and people we love because of creeps and experiences like you encountered that night.

And in light of so many things that have happened on the island over the years with regard to the security staff hired by many places, one has to scratch their heads in wonder. I thought the police were starting to take some control back over the island but it sounds like things are just as bad as ever, and given the time and location of your experience, possibly even worse.

I'm glad you at least have the positive experiences of your sailing day and the staff at Orient Beach Club along with their efforts to help you. Good wishes to you and your family. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

That's pretty much been our Trip Report since 2010. We came to that realization quickly after Trip 1. SeaStar said it well... if Club O goes, we'd never return.

We do hope you're healing well.

We started going to St Martin in 1984 and loved it.
We stopped in 2010 because of the crime

WOW!! What the heck has happened to our wonderful island?? It's not paradise any longer. We're reading too many similar stories. I've been going for 32 years and I've never seen and heard of so many horrible stories as I've heard in the past year or so.
The good news is you're OK, physically. The outcome could have been much worse. We need to become more vigilant or our surroundings everywhere on earth, sadly.

Take care.....

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> Contessa

Just a question....but how would the papers have even heard about the incident? Did the OP contact the media?

Has anyone let Jimbo or other restaurants in the area know about the problem in the parking lot?

So glad you had your wits about you Walt, and that your wife was quick thinking enough to sound the car horn. I may have panicked and started screaming. Hope your healing continues.

Perhaps from police reports?

Walt,
I am so sorry to hear of your horrific experience. I hope that you recover from your injuries quickly. It is so sad to hear that a member of our TTOL community was a victim of this type of crime. It really drives home how the island we love so much has changed over the last several years. I think it is going to make many of us reconsider coming back to the island . It will us .
Sincere best wishes to your family.
Susan

Do they have a "police beat" reporter? Someone that goes through cases or listens to a scanner?

Based upon what I read in local (SXM) newspapers on a daily basis, there appears to be some access and dissemination of news regarding crime. It seems to be hit or miss and not everything is going to be covered.

Greetings J.D., The local newspaper in our new Florida home often does downplay crime incidents I'm told by our acquaintances in the police dept, keep the tourists happy. Thankfully we have TTOL for the real story. Thanks.

Walt, you and I have been members of TTOL for about the same length of time. I've read many of your posts and have enjoyed your contributions. I'm sorry you experienced this crime, and hope your physical and emotional recoveries are short.

I have just one word for you: Cuba. It's going to put SXM out of business if this crap continues.

I'm sorry dave....u dont think there is crime in cuba???? Try telling that to the people of Miami!!!!

1) do the people in Miami live in Cuba?
b) do tourists in Cuba need to be in fear for their safety in a populated, heavily touristed and well lit area at mid-evening?

Crime is almost non-existent in Cuba. Punishment is severe there and crime is not tolerated. We have always felt very safe on our visits there. Dave is right, St. MARTIN/ST. MAARTEN will definitely suffer when tourism dollars go to Cuba!I feel very sorry for all the SXM business people who depend on tourism for their livlihood. It is so sad that the government will not do anything to support the people and take a stand against all this crime.

Walt, After reading your post, I felt sick to my stomach!! As a rule we walk in packs and or never go anywhere where we can't see the car in front of the place we are dinning at. This is a reminder that, no matter where you go. No matter how many times you've been to your favorite places to dine. You have to have eye's in the back of your head at ALL times!! Walt, you, like us now have been going to our "home away from home" for SO many years. I would hate to think that you and your lovely family will not return. DON'T let these lil bastards get the better of you!!! God bless, hope to see you on Orient soon!

Ah yes. Give me a good communist dictatorship that rules it's people with an iron fist. But, hey it's safe for us. Great place to vacation! Don't forget the Che t-shirts for the folks back home!

Ah yes. Give me a good communist dictatorship that rules it's people with an iron fist. But, hey it's safe for us. Great place to vacation! Don't forget the Che t-shirts for the folks back home! [/quot

* Well, I know two couples that have traveled to Cuba in the last 6 months. One couple spoke English, French & Spanish. Everytime they left their hotel they were approached by people asking for money, also asking for money to protect their car. A young French couple & she was expecting a baby.

The same experience for the other couple.

Maybe it is better if you come on a cruise?

I'd like to visit someday, we'll see...

And Walt...still trying to see if I can help you with locating your badge...

When we disembarked a cruise ship in Cuba many years ago there were military armed with AK47s checking everyone out-kind of scary. I think that it's the police in SXM that need to up their patrols -like how come they're not patrolling Welfare Rd looking for these guys every night? Same reason that they don't patrol the parking lots at the beaches I guess.

Personally speaking I have not seen many police vehicles on the dutch side of the island but we have seen many gendarme vehicles often driving across the pkg lot at Orient beach & many going up & down the road to friar's bay while we are sitting on our balcony & through Grand CAse & Marigot. We have also seen many of the local French police as well. I feel there is a big presence on the French side IMHO. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Walt, sorry to hear about this and hope you are feeling better physically and emotionally. We don't rent a car when we stay at Club O. We rarely go to the Dutch side and for dinners out we use a taxi. Exception is walking to Orient Village to Le Piment. We go before dark and depending on when we are ready to go back we either walk on the beach (before 9 pm and when we can see others walking) or get a taxi.

Of course I agree for more police to act to assist the tourists & the local people, protection for everyone from these thugs. People who live & work hard to put food on their table for their family, people who are vacationing on the island.

When I'm out running errands, paying Carib Serve, car insurance, taxes, NV etc. I speak & deal with many people living here that are not happy.

It's the big wigs that have to step up & do something that's for sure.

I worry about my family back in the states as well.

Crime happens in all countries and unfortunately when it occurs in SXM; people think badly of the Island but in truth ; the police have been very active trying to prevent crime and many times have thwarted potential problems through their control stops and profiling. Yes Profiling as the police here do profile. Very few tourists ever get stopped in controls.

I travel the world, lived in one of the biggest cities in the world most of my life.

Thank you for the information & I see what is happening here everyday
with my own eyes.

Try harder is the point... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the support, feeling much better physically but still haven't decided if we will go back. Maybe the Police are trying but dealing with them you get the feeling that they could careless. Thanks everyone

Where do you think would be a good place to stay that is Safe? Club O or Grand Case beach Club maybe? Open to suggestions.

I wanted to jump in with 2 comments - your wife watching you being attacked plus seeing them try to open the car door, must have been horrible for her. Also have to congratulate you on your courage to come forward and let us know about this crime aginast you.

If the local police are so numbed by a tourist being attacked and mugged, then that concerns me as to a bigger picture

J&B

Orient village, check it out

where ever there is a presence of large numbers of uneducated jobless fatherless directionless young people crimes of the moment will occur-- be it st.martin detroit london or rio----and many tourists---AND LOCALS--are preceived as ''easy marks''by these feral youths---always be aware and alert--always.

got to this thread late - ditto Walt on what everyone has said. Really sucks, and hope you guys quickly recover mentally and physically.
Agree with Hat. We have stayed in Orient Village 10 or so times, and I don't think I have ever heard of anyone having a problem there (although I'm sure there will be a lot of responses to this). And we have personally never felt at all unsafe, going from our condos to the village or to the beach when Kakao or someone has a night event. We don't walk on the beach at night, no use inviting trouble.

This is something I can't even imagine happening to us. So sorry! Hope you are feeling better!

The indifference of the authorities is shameful!

It seems like Walt did everything right--he was aware. He parked at a good hour in a busy familiar place and even had his wife lock the doors. What more could he have done--drove around the parking lot 2 or 3 times???

Wasn't anyone aware of what was happening? Just too crazy! We have been going to SXM since the 80's and are getting tired of being nervous when going out at night.

Same with us. Always have stayed in Orient Village and spend most of our time on French side. Is it my imagination that it seems like crime is much higher on Dutch side?

Yes, it's your imagination.

I can't speak for Club O and that's okay since others have, but I would suggest Grand Case Beach Club is possibly one of the safest places on the island. As I recall our stay there, your vehicle has to be buzzed in by someone at the main office. I know there was staff all around the grounds all day long and at night there were security people on the grounds all night. We never felt at all unsafe while there and truth be known, there are many other places we've stayed around the island I can't say that about. I wouldn't hesitate to walk the grounds there at night and I won't even do that at my own timeshare anymore.

Another very safe property, so I've been told and having only dined but never personally stayed there, is LaSamana but be prepared to pay dearly for the added sense of security.

And as a general comment and addressed to no one in particular, I don't have facts to support the following but over many years it seems to be the case.........

As to which side of the island has more crime, please, it's one very small island with open borders. Much of the crime is crime of opportunity and it happens all over and on both sides.

I don't know if the changes ever happened but there was much talk about the need for improved cooperation between the police of both sides of the island because too many Frenchside residents were committing crimes on the Dutch side of the island and fleeing across the border and likewise, people from the Dutch side doing the same thing, with the police from both sides failing to cooperate with each other to apprehend them.

Another thing I've gathered over the years is the French are more apt to deal with apprehended criminals swiftly and more severely while all too often it seems as though the Dutch court system seems to mete out more slaps on the wrist than dire punishment if one can believe the things written in the island papers. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Divi Little Bay is worth a look - water on three sides and a gatehouse make for a secure and scenic location.

Good suggestion, Bobcat. I don't know why but I never seem to think about either Divi or the Belair but I can't really recall hearing any negative comments about these properties beyond them being 'remote' and who's to say that might not be a good thing?! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

We've stayed at both GCBC and Club O, and felt safe at both places. Both are gated, and have security. However, "safe" is a relative term, and both are on the beach, giving access that way. We can't let the bad guys win (re: staying away), but Walt's experience is scary.

There is really no such thing as a "safe place" anymore. Many of these thugs gain access to properties via the water late at night and have never been caught. It is easy to walk up the beach also and gain entry to villas etc... Many people here have experienced crime because of this. Being aware of your surroundings "helps" but it will not stop things from happening. Unfortunately this island is not the paradise it once was and this goes for many other places as well!My heart goes out to the good island people who have no choice but to live their lives always trying to avoid being attacked by crime. We love SXM and feel sad to hear of so many unfavorable happenings in recent years.

Yes Pat, Belair and Divi are both good choices due to their location, getting in and out is more restrictive than at many other properties.

It seems that most of the issues arise after you leave a property and go to a restaurant, casino or market. That is why we started staying in the village and cabbing over to Grand Case one or two nights. We usually skip the rental car as well. Granted we do not have any interest in the Dutch side and I know a lot of you have your favorite haunts all over the island. We do the beach, eat, sleep, repeat kind of stay.

So the list of so called "safe" places have been mentioned. Now what, stay in you safe hotel or timeshare afraid to go out to dinner at night in fear of being mugged? That's what happened to Walt and many others. May as well go to Jamaica, which by the way is very beautiful. Just a matter of time when SXM will be mostly all inclusive.

I made this statement on Big Bob's Day 12 thread when talking about crime at Pic Paradise. In this day and age of Boards like this and other Social Media, word travels quickly:


You don't want SXM to be Jamaica. The attraction has always been the ability to leave your resort or hotel. See multiple beaches, eat in various restaurants, see 2 similar but different cultures. 2 Countries in 1 short drive. They need to wake up or else face the loss of tremendous revenue.

They being the authorities on both sides of the island.

That's precisely what we did…go to Jamaica that is. After 20 consecutive years of going to St.Martin, in May 2011 we decided that St. Martin had become too expensive and too dangerous compared to our first trip in 1991. Although we had never been a victim of crime in St. Martin, we had been in some situations we felt were a bit "dodgy" and decided to move on. You can do all the right things like Walt did and still be a victim. Doesn't matter if you are military, martial arts, etc., you can still be "blind-sided".

We now go to all-inclusive in Jamaica that has everything we want…beach, pool, hot tub, good food, multiple restaurants and lots of good entertainment into the wee hours.

John <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

We went to San Souci in Jamacia this past April. It was nice. They would drive you to restaurants or attractions if you wanted.

Well said island gem........we have been here a week thus far and have spent a mix of evenings on both sides. I will say we have felt more comfortable on the French side. Grand case was very busy and very calm last night. The gendarmes have been everywhere (orient village, mount Vernon lower parking lot, anse marcel, grand case, Marigot) patrolling in trucks. Don't remember seeing any police on the Dutch side thus far. Lots of rent a cops at all maho places.

Except for the person staying there who reported on this forum that his laptop and other articles were stolen from the room.

And the year that there was a scam by Thrifty where tail light assemblies were removed then they billed the customer when the car was returned and put them back in again---all under the watchful eyes of security. It was said the cameras were out of commission during that time.

So far when we've stayed at GCBC have not heard of any problems.

Unfortunately, crime happens everywhere.

Orient village square (restaurant area Le Piment etc.) seems very safe to us at night as this seems to be where all the French families stay. There is live music, arts/craft/jewelry flea market, children playing. We feel less safe in Grand Case at night, but never had a problem in 8 years. The Dutch side with the casinos, nightclubs, gentle men's clubs, seems less safe.

It is not your imagination which is why we don't frequent the Dutch side - and I anticipate getting flamed for that response. Wouldn't wander around Marigot at night but feel safe pretty much everywhere else on the French side <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Us too!!

I felt safe on Club O grounds.

Does anyone think that the Ministry of Tourism has a clue as to what's going on? Has anyone taken notice that the Cruise Ship traffic has dropped dramatically? It may be a blessing for those staying on Island for their vacation but it has to hurt the local businesses and anyone who works for them.

Without ships in port the number of people employed will go down. If the number of people employed drops I fear there will be more people with time on their hands and not enough money. That can lead to more crime. More crime will lead to people who read these blogs discovering that their relatively safe Island vacation is no longer as safe. People like Wendell, long time visitors, will stop coming. And then the snowball down hill effect/affect (I never really know) will be out of control.

We are going the last week of July and I know that if we feel uncomfortable in any way, it will be our last visit. As I stated earlier, the freedom to explore Sint Maartem/St. Martin, with it's beautiful beaches and many restaurants, is the attraction. There are many Islands in the chain. We happen to have fallen for SXM first and hardest. Breaking up is hard to do, but I will do it.

As always, JMHO

As far as cruise ship traffic in general, I think the actual number of cruise ship passengers is about the same as in previous years. Disney has pulled out with most of their ships, yes, but my personal perception is that it didn't have much to do with SXM as a destination, but because there wasn't a dedicated "Margaritaville" type destination in SXM where they could guarantee themselves a really large percentage of the money from their passengers.... They went to Tortola, which really is not a great cruise ship destination, but where they built a pier facility where they keep their pax kind of 'captive' and retain all their money. Hard to do that on SXM, where there are a lot more things that cruise ship passengers would like to see and do.

Crime is everywhere, every State, every Country, every Island. Just be careful and use common sense and enjoy the beautiful Island. Going to deserted beaches, beaches after dark or Restaurants that are known to be in a shady part of town should be off the itinerary, as I'm sure you are well aware. Just come and have a good time.

I think you need to re-read the original post. He was mugged on the main road in Simpson Bay at 8 in the evening. Nothing shady about where he was, and it certainly wasn't late. He parked in front of a restaurant and was attacked when he got out of his car. The victim in this case did everything right, and was still a victim of crime.

So, in essence, Disney went to Tortola so that they could be an "all inclusive".

Absolutely.

I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to RicknGrace LI NY. in no way did I think the OP did anything wrong. Things happen and I'm sorry for that. I was only saying (to RicknGrace) that they should be aware, not the OP. I agree you can do everything right and still be a victim. Sorry you misunderstood. I guess I didn't push reply to their post.

We have always been aware of our surroundings. More so now than ever, naturally.

We have been going since 1993. In 1994 my wife, 3 children and myself were walking in Phillipsburg near 10pm from dinner to our car. I never felt threatened in any way.

My point is that since that time, and more so recently, the crime rates have risen. With Social Media word of incidents such as Walt's, travel very quickly. My post above was to hopefully, make the Authorities aware of what is happening and if something is not done tourism will suffer.

Although I know crime is possible anywhere, when on vacation I hate the thought of having to constantly look over my shoulder.

Don't think the authorities pay any attention to this forum.

I was not thinking of this forum in particular, but Social Media and print media in general. If people never speak up, nothing will ever be done.

JMHO

Hi Walt, I've been traveling and just read about your terrible experience. My thoughts are with you and your wife and I wish you both a very speedy recovery. All the best to you and your wife.

We spent 2 weeks , June 4 -June 17 , at The Villas on Great Bay in Philipsburg. We noticed that only 3 ship in 2 weeks came in. In 2014 when we stayed there, on some days, there were as many as 4 ships in a day. The taxi drivers and store owners we talked to said that business was way down and felt the crime had a lot to do with it. We were even told by one of the store owners, for our safety, that we probably shouldn't be on that street ( I don't remember the street name, but it was a block from back street). He said there had been several robberies on that street. It was early afternoon and we hadn't had any problems, but we took his advice and didn't go back down there.

And that's the shame of it. I too, remember ships in port every day and many days with more than one. Cruise Lines, travel professionals and just tourists in general will hear the rumblings and will start to avoid SXM. That may start the snowball factor. More crime...less tourists. Less tourists...less jobs. Less jobs...more crime and so on and so on.

I will not write SXM off yet. I love it too much.

There have never been many ships in June. We see up to 6 daily when we're there in March. I think June/July is when the ships reposition to Europe--at least we always get offered for that. Then they return later to the states. Only Carnival hasn't approached us offering repositioning cruises so I guess they stay stateside and travel to Mexico & Caribbean?

Yes, ships go to Europe and to Alaska in the summer... Not many ships in the Caribbean in the summer.. The cruise lines can get much more for their cruises in Europe and Alaska than in the Caribbean. Just the laws of supply and demand. The season for Alaska is very short, for Europe, not that much longer. For the Caribbean, year round..

Carol & RonDon,

You are both 100% correct. All anyone had to do was go to the forum top menu and choose cruise schedule and they could see the past 3 years history. This time of year, you average about 1 ship a day. One thing I have noticed is a fair amount of fear mongering going on. I truly feel sorry for WALT and his wife and I really appreciate him sharing with the forum. But, some others seem to throw out quite a bit of anecdotal comments that have limited to no accurate facts. I do think that incorrect information needs to be called out and corrected to prevent these scare tactics.

I for one agree bdeeley about calling out incorrect info. Bravo for posting.

We were there 5/31 to 6/11 and heard the same remarks from the few locals (cab drivers etc.) about the lack of cruise ships.
The Port of Sint Maarten web site's Cruise ship schedule shows that for the entire month of June the count went like this for the last few years...
2013 - 19 ships
2014 - 25 ships
2015 - 21 ships
2016 - 18 ships
2017 - 19 ships (scheduled anyway)
They saw a 15% to 25% drop recently not a drastic change but not growing. Certainly not "bad" info. either.

I agree with bdeely. Things unfortunately happen to good people that are careful. I'm sure it happens on every island in every port and even in Europe.

I feel awful that it happened to members of the board but it's a chance we all take going to a foreign country.

Just my two cents.

If you were referring to my reply, you said they average about 1 ship per day this time of year. I just made the statement that there were only 3 ships in the whole time we were there, 14 days. That is fewer than we had seen in the past. We always travel in June. I'm not trying to misinform or scare anyone. I was just saying what I had experienced and was told to me . I thought that was what this form was for.

While it really doesn't matter but is the posted cruise ship schedule completely wrong? Because during the days you posted the schedule says 8 ships had been in port? Are they changing itineraries? That could be distressing to the economy of the ships aren't coming as expected

The cruise schedule that is linked here is the official port schedule, and it appeared to be spot on, from May 26 through June 6, when we were on island. Specifically I know there were ships in on June 4, 5, and 6, because we saw them on those days. So oceangirl is mistaken. There certainly are a ton more ships in port in the winter though.

I certainly didn't report unknown or made up information. I have not had conversations with shop owners or cab drivers. However I did read a published article near the beginning of the year (i do NOT recall where) stating that cruise ship visits to SXM were down significantly.

25 in 2014/ 18 in 2016 7 doesn't sound like a lot but it is 28%. How many passengers on each ship? Use 2500 for round numbers. 17500 less visitors in a month. Now 7 ships sounds like a bit more.

I am not "Chicken Little" ranting about the sky. I am not sugar coating it either.

We love SXM and will continue to visit until it feels unsafe. I will not visit SXM and stay in a compound that I can never leave out of fear. The beauty has always been the freedom to "see" the entire Island.

Cruise ship schedule aside (it doesn't really matter how many ships were in port in June), I don't see any real 'fear mongering' going on in this post. People are just reporting things as they know them, and I for one, would rather know of these things, than not. The truth of the matter is that crime is increasing on the island; tourists are being attacked and robbed (sometimes in broad daylight); and the police are doing little about it (at least on the Dutch side). Even when one does wish to file a police report, as Walt said, they have to jump through hoops to get it done. The police couldn't even say from where they recovered Walt's wallet. Really? As I posted, there were 3 incidents that I personally knew about while we were on island this month. One happened to friends we had made while there this trip. We ourselves noticed many more young guys hanging out in parking lots. This is not fear mongering -- it's making people aware of situations. These crimes have been happening more and more in busy areas, and earlier in the day/evening. Some people, it seems, like to put their head in the sand when it comes to our favorite island, but I'd rather be aware of what's going on than not. We travel a great deal to foreign countries, but this last trip was the first time that I felt truly uncomfortable because of what we saw personally. Walt did the same things most of us do on every trip, nothing more, and still became a victim. Same thing with our friends. This 'crime is everywhere' mentality doesn't hold up when the police and government do little or nothing. We have crime here in the US too, yes, but I don't walk around looking over my shoulder in most vacation places I travel to. We will take a 'wait and see' attitude for now, but the time will come when each of us has to make an informed decision about whether or not SXM continues to be a vacation destination where we feel comfortable enough to spend our hard earned dollars. We love the island and all it offers, so we are hoping things will clean up some.

Most of this is pretty far afield of the original post. But your numbers regarding cruise ship passengers are way off, at 2500. The new Royal Caribbean ships hold well over 4000 passengers on a routine basis and maximum capacity is close to 5000 passengers. 2500 passengers is a relatively 'small' ship these days. Ships are getting bigger and bigger every year.

I think that is a good place to end this one.