One million Chinese tourists per year?

Daily Herald story Yikes!! Is today April 1??

In reading the article I can't help but wonder if this was generally known to be in the planning stages by the general public at large or was it one of those well kept secrets? If the groundbreaking is set, approvals had to have been given long before and yet it's only being talked about now?

Where is this going to be located? I hope not near the Belair...

The numbers don't add up for 1 million tourists from China. The number of overnight visitors to Sint Maarten isn't even 1 million right now.

They say the Hotel will be 326 rooms and also 450 apartments for executives?????
How will 360 rooms house 1,000,000 tourists ? If all 326 rooms are occupied 365 days a year 2 people per room that would house 237,980 guests . Where would the other 720,000 stay when on Island??????
The numbers don't add up.
Also why 450 executive apartments?

Apparently yes, according to the story.

The numbers are just nuts. 1 million per year averages 2700 per DAY, which is roughly TEN 747's per day. No way.. As I said, is today April 1??

Wait, I remembered something like this a bit ago and found this story, which is about St. Lucia. Almost the same name??? Today IS April 1???

Yep, next door.

The other failed proposed project sliced the mountain to make room and that's the bare area one sees as they walk the beach towards the west. Guessing you stay at BelAir.

I'm skeptical as well. Time will tell.

States it will be located right next door to the Belaor Beach Hotel.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...adise-went-bust

A massive Chinese project on cable beach, Nassau Bahamas.

Wow, that's scary. If this is for real, I hope it doesn't end up the same. I hope this isn't some boondoggle just to line someone's pockets.. There's no way any of those numbers make sense.

I'm sure the business and government wizards on St. Maarten would never make the same mistakes or allow these things to happen on our beloved island. Just look at how well and with what speed they handled the final resolution of the Mullet Bay debacle. She says with tongue firmly planted in cheek.......... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

So 2700 tourists arrive daily and each stays one week, that adds about 19,000 people to a country with a current population less than 40,000. Then add a supporting population of significance because the 19K will eat, sightsee, buy things, etc., etc.
We will probably be able to get 5 or 6 more years of visiting before nobody but Chinese and locals are on our favorite island.

The proposed project will replace the old Barbaron hotel project. It appears that it will occupy a significant portion of the beach west of the Belair and in effect take out another "public" beach in St Maarten. You can look up Barbaron SXM on line and see the land the project occupies. Unfortunately,we will be looking out our balcony at it.

The only thing that would make this very attractive is if it were a convention center hotel, but it does not appear to be. The proposal is bizarre, to say the least.

Paid off.

OMG! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

My thoughts, too.....

Please say this is an April Fool joke!

Agree. A million people from anywhere would swamp the island in a bad way. One would think the Dutch govt would have a say in the matter as well. As for the Bahamas project, I was told 70% of the construction workers were flown in from China.

Lots of Chinese financed Caribbean projects going on or on the books - Antigua, Trinidad, Jamaica, Cuba to name a few
Several of them promise to make that island a caribbean hub for Chinese industry

This will be more of the same - Chinese money, probably Chinese labour, not sure how much really trickles into the local economy

The million people a yr - do the politician's really hear themselves when they speak outload?

Having said that - that makes two new P'burg area hotel projects announced - Sunwing's and now this project
If 600+ rooms in total, turning over wkly, 2 per room, that's 1200+ new people per week flying in and out - that's over 6 737's a week from somewhere

J&B

I've been involved in researching this almost all day, and of all the strange stories I've seen about SXM since I started "SXM Weekly News" 20+ years ago, this is THE strangest of all. Gawd. I think time lapse photography will show the building sink or the beach under it wash away or both. Maybe the Caribbean Lottery should have a When Will It Go game focused on this. Or maybe a Jimmy Buffett song!

That's only 62400 people per year. A long way from a million. It will take about 14 every day. Can't imagine what the airport or Maho Beach will look like.

I did look up Barbaron - amazing what lives forever on the net!

The Barbaron was to be 167 units and 6 stories - the Pearl story says 326 + 450 units - 776 units and the pic shows about 12 stories

WOW - by comarison almost makes you wish the Barbaron had been built - almost

J&B

Agreed, totally bizarre story.

For comparison purposes, Wikipedia says the island got 1.8 million cruise passengers and .5 million passengers via the airport in 2013. Of course, that's not always the most accurate source, but it does give at least some idea of the size of current tourism.

There was so much that was weird in that article...the Chinese promising other water sources for agriculture....which would be? And electrical upgrades that don't rely on petroleum? (This from a country known for its lack of environmental protection and terrible pollution of its own land.)

A negotiation process where the Chinese spoke no English, and their representative (from Turkey, was it?) spoke no Chinese. I know it's common to have a translator for international business, but did the SXM government have a representative that spoke Chinese?

And no reporting of what responses the audience at the hearing got to its legitimate questions, although I suspect the average citizen doesn't get heard often anyway.

I understand that the island relies on tourism and needs to advance the industry, but it seems amazing the the leaders could be gullible enough to believe what's been promised. So who's going to pocket money on this deal?

Agreed, everything about the article makes zero sense.

Maybe there will be some authentic Chinese restaurants on the island. And I can't imagine how driving will be on the island, if you know what I mean.

It would take multiple 787s from Beijing and Shanghai daily year round to make this happen. It is more more likely that there will be a three-foot blizzard with temperatures near 0 F. tomorrow in SXM. Not bloody likely.

Interesting. I wonder if this is related?

We just booked our SXM vacation for January. I remember how we felt when the Barbaron project initially gouged out the hillside next to the Belair. If this proves to be legitimate it would have a huge negative impact on Little Bay area.

The Daily Herald doesn't seem totally convinced either

1 million Chinese is an insignificant number when you have a population of a few Billion!

Insignificant number to them, maybe. To SXM, it is huge and totally unmanageable.

"the additional... to SXm is not insurmountable" this article reads. Well, the poor Belair people. What about the impact on them? Looks like SXM will go the way of Hawaii soon.

The increased traffic will take a toll on cruise ship visitors that have already peaked. People on the French side will stop coming over except to work because of the traffic. People will not travel far at night, if at all.Jeannie's business will flourish as nobody will want to go to the market. Local Chinese markets will close because the bilingual families that run them will all get good jobs with the new businessmen.
Maybe a causeway from the airport to Little Bay?

I can't even imagine the roads with that many cars.

It sounds like most people on this thread believes they could run the island better than the current leaders in St. Maarten so I am curious to hear the other side of the story. Can anyone tell me why the leaders would want to allow this to happen and completely ruin and destroy their island? Are they doing it for the fun of it or is there a thought that they are trying to do better for their people and their island?

Some pure speculation. Once the hotel is built, perhaps it will make SXM an ''asian-friendly'' island, and the million includes people staying at other hotels as well, plus ''asian-friendly'' cruises. Chinese, who still prefer their kids to marry other Chinese, have what they call Love Boat cruises, where singles are encouraged to meet for prospective marriage. The Caribbean is perfect for that. And other Asians, Japanese, are likely to follow. So the numbers seem high, but with overflow to other hotels, and specialty cruises, the number may be high, but not unrealistic. Especially with other Chinese projects on other islands to include on cruise stops. Again, purely speculation, and a few Asian friends who told me about the Love Boat thing. Picture two or more cruise ships of 6K passengers on days--all Asian tourists--using the hotel pool and amenities. Like Atlantis in the Bahamas brings in cruise people on day-passes.

Sorry, my perception is that any SXM leaders who are promoting this would be doing it for their own personal gain, not for the good of the island.

I can agree that the only reason the government of SXM would want a project of this size has got to be personal gain for the individuals that support it. Their pitch is that this will boost the sagging tourism industry. But, at what cost? For starters, that area has been a nature sanctuary for some time. The Barbaron deal may have been able to preserve it but a facility of this size would require that entire area to be filled in (so much for the environment).
Secondly, as already stated the traffic nightmare would be beyond chaotic.
I for one, after going to SXM every year for 30 years and calling the Belair my home away from home for the last 25 of those years, would need to find another island.

My thoughts keep coming back to one thing. Why would they come?

If I'm Chinese, I live half way around the world. There are countless more spectacular places (sorry buts it's true) than SXM. PHuket Thailand, the whole South Pacific. Bora bora, Fiji, etc. Maldives , Seychelles , Hawaii....
Who in their right mind would spend 20+ hours flying to SXM when these kind of places can be reached easier and cheaper. Makes no sense to me.

Nuts.

If this really happens, all I can say is "Good Bye St. Maarten" and then my string of 21 trips will be over.

That's a good point as far as the Chinese tourist go but the Chinese government has something bigger going on I think and it's not good for SXM or us.

I think you are correct, that if this happens, in those kinds of numbers, there are a lot of people who would say goodbye to SXM..

You've got that right, but not just in SXM but elsewhere in the Caribbean, South America (Brazil, Venezuela and even Mexico), and in Africa. IMHO, if that's possible <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />

Carol, Tom and others,

Here's a link to the proposal made by Barbaron.

http://www.barbaronsxm.com/project_presentation.pdf

Almost seems reasonable compared to new deal. There is a familiar name that was a possible player in the deal.

Sadly I fear that the lagoon and nature area will be a thing of the past eventually.

That's pretty funny, another failed deal!

I'm willing to bet you don't have to worry about all those tourists. China is due for a huge and spectacular real estate bubble burst, and these investments are just a way to delay that. Those rooms will largely go unoccupied. If the local government does the right thing and applies some of the investment in infrastructure it might almost be worth the big empty building which is going to result...

Well, I'd hate to leave SXM so that means I'll stay on the French side until they do something stupid like this.

The French Side? That's where they'll be hiding the troop ships to carry the million "tourists", along with their compatriots from Aruba, the Bahamas, Cuba, etc., when they invade the US. (This is an attempt at humor, admittedly a poor one, but still an attempt at humor.)

Aren't they building the harbor larger on the French side for cruise ships. It's one island. Neither side is immune to this

The French side already has a cruise ship dock that they plan to dredge so bigger ships can come in. Cruiser don't bother me but more high-risers do. The French side has a law against high buildings.

PS
the dock is down Rue de Galisbay. Keeping water at your left, go beyond where you get the ferry to Anguilla , Mall on right, follow road toward Grand Case rotary. It's a left turn to Port de Galisbay.

Wonder whether this will negatively impact Club Orient, as China frowns upon public nudity. In 2014, there was a crack down on the one nudist beach area in China, Dadonghai Beach, at the resort city of Sanya on Hainan Island. http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1425148/hainan-coverup-sanya-cracks-down-nude-sunbathers

Uhmn, no, irrelevant.

Daily Herald editorial What we said from the beginning--the numbers don't make sense.

Carol: It seems that everyone in the Caribbean is going to China, hat in hand, looking for hand-outs. Our dear governor is one of them: Mapp signs million dollar hotel bill. I guess you go where the money is...

Wow, and I thought the SXM government was messed up. $1m for what?

Who knows? We can't pay our bills and are in debt to the hilt.

That's the answer. When the delegation comes to visit we all go nude on Belair Beach!

French side is SXM and IMHO opinion, more like the Caribbean and less like NYC with palm tress. Just my opinion. I expect lots of nasty responses, but SXM includes the FRENCH side. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Actually SXM is the airport identification on the Dutch side. Just saying.

I can't see how the Chinese could do anything about nudity on the French side. The plan for the Chinese high rise is on the Dutch side. I doubt the French Govt would care what the Chinese think about nudity.

I hope its not another 1 million tourist! That's odd to read because the last time we went to SXM in March we saw a van load of Asian men walking along Simpson Bay Beach looking around with what looked a like a group of local business men also dressed nicely. Wonder what else they are up to?

Doctor No, know doubt. Look out for that dragon rolling thought the salt flats at night.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />there is a pic on Trip advisor for the Belair that shows the shelf the Barbaron cut into the mountain...I cant see that type of place being put there.

My opinion as well

what the hell does this mean?

so if I were a Chinese worker at Apple and wanted to vacation in Saint Marten for the one week that I am entitled to. I could fly halve way around the world and rack up mega airline mileage by doing so.
SXM is three times the distance from Hawaii, just a thought.

Been to Hawaii. In no way does it compare to St Maarten. I live in Washington State. Hawaii is much closer than St Maarten and that is where I go for my yearly tropical vacation.

I'm sure those Apple workers in China are making the big bucks and can afford the flight <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

Cost is probably not the factor. Time in the air more so.

A story which doesn't appear to be in the online version now says that the number of one million visitors is spread over TEN years, and includes people flying into SXM and connecting to other islands. Took them long enough to admit the original story was bogus...

Daily Herald story I thought this thing was already approved by government? There is some review, which is supposed to be concluded by the end of this month?? Why would they have a scheduled ground breaking on the 17th of this month, if there are government reviews still pending? Interesting, the reference to a 'Westin, on a larger scale'. We all know what a huge environmental and otherwise success the Westin has been, destroying public access to Dawn Beach! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Environmental concerns

Interesting the comment about setting up a China Caribbean hub. I get the airport / cruise ship connection, but China investment in the Caribbean has been ongoing for several yrs, some islands getting gifts ie Dominica, other loans and investment ie Trinidad, Cuba a road!.

In many cases the concept of creating a China Caribbean hub was mentioned - just how many hubs do the Chinese need?

Almost every island has been looked at with investment ongoing at several. What's interesting is how long it took for St Maarten to come into the picture.

I can;t help but be reminded about the Chinese Olmpic bid for 2000 which failed. Immediately the Chinese went thru Africa creating many projects in many countires, stadiums, help with infrastructure, favourable loans, outsourcing to local business's who had ties to those who signed on behalf of the local country.
Amazingly, all those countries voted for the next Chinese Olympic bid which culminated in the 2008 games.

That is not the case now, but how come almost every caribbean country is getting interest from the Chinese?

J&B

Daily Herald story

Too bad tourists couldn't sign this petition then govt. might realize what might be lost as compared to gain by this project.

Don't you think if the SXM government really cared about tourists there would be some action on timeshare legislation? Perhaps also more action against crime?

I don't know, the news story said that more than 500 'residents' had signed it, but if you go to the petition, it asks you to click on your country of 'origin'. Don't know if that means that you are supposed to be a resident of SXM to sign it or not.

Sorry to say, I agree completely, JD. And if they don't care about the opinions of the people who live there, chances are the few signers of an on-line petition won't get much more attention. They are talking millions of visitors if their plans go through, as opposed to perhaps a few hundred on-line petitioners if there should be one? Usually I get on board with most petitions for the good of the island, but this one, should it actually happen? Probably not...... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

My wife and I are US residents, but we have a villa on the Belair hillside. We signed the petition.The more people signing it, the better. Even if you aren't a "resident", but travel extensively to SXM, your voice should be heard.
Gregg

Done..signed and registered

Maybe, we will now get an upscale Chinese restaurant in Grande Case.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Banana.gif" alt="" />

If this is what is needed to get a decent Chinese restaurant I will pass

When we purchased at Divi in 1988 island "ownership" was a huge selling point. Owners supposedly had more value to the island than other tourists. Sign the petition and let them verify the signatures they want to keep.

654 signatures

Daily Herald story Somehow this person thinks that makes this monstrosity sound better.

A project of this size and the secrecy associated with its planning, has me convinced that it will happen. All the public relations hype such as in this article, tell me that they (the supporters, both SXM and China)knew that regular SXM vacationers and environmentalists would strongly oppose it. Yes, we signed the petition but are realistic about the power of $.

hate so say it.......but, we can sign petitions.....protest any way we want.....BUT...it is the people of SXM, the residents, and the government that will make all the decisions. We, for the most part, are just ''visitors'' of THEIR homeland, and it has been obvious for years, that they really don't care a hell of a lot of what we ''tourists'' feel. I am sure there are quite a few ''hidden deals'' going on....but is anyone really surprised?? Over the years, we have all complained about numerous construction and congestion on the island....we have all seen our quaint island become more and more a concrete jungle and our beaches becomre more crowded...we have seen the local shops and some restaurants be ''mcdonaldized", we saw what happened to Orient Beach last year, and with all the complaining, the project went forward, and now finished. We have seen PBurg go from a smaller stop, with just a few ships, to one of the busiest ports for cruise ships in the Caribbean. We all long for the ''old days''.....but while we wanted it to stay the same as it was, the people and government of SXM had other plans. I, for one, will continue to visit my ''second home'' for as long as i can....and hope all the fear will eventually, maybe, make it better?? We can only hope. Sorry for the rant...but my two cents.

I heartily agree, Ed. We will still continue to visit for as long as we're of a mind to, but I really don't think these changes can be stopped or even impacted by the thoughts of the 'visitors' who have brought the island to its current state of desirability for proposed expansion. There are people at work who are far more powerful than a few hundred (may end up thousand - who's to say?) signers of an on line petition. There's only one group who could remotely have a say here and that's the residents of the island itself and if the plans are already set in stone, I doubt even they can stop it. And that's my rant for the day....... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

yep....agree 100 percent!

I would be curious to know how much information and knowledge local residents, especially those living nearby, had of this project. I would also wonder how much input they would actually have and if there is anything they could do about it anyhow.

Peaceful protest/demonstration requested against Chinese project groundbreaking this Saturday.

http://www.sxm-talks.com/local-news/peaceful-protest-requested-for-chinese-project-groundbreaking/

Does anyone on island know if the official groundbreaking is really taking place today?
Thanks

that would be very interesting to know

Smn-news.com
Happened. Picture of orientals digging a shovelful of beach sand shown. Separate article also issued.

Here's the link. http://smn-news.com/st-maarten-st-martin...-available.html

Sounds like the local politicians are VERY happy!

I have several thoughts.
1. The developers and supporters of this project have all the answers to questions asked as we would expect. Kind of like the politicians who always promise the world.
2. Those SXM tourists not staying in Belair area may think they have dodged a bullet but will have a wake-up call when the air and car traffic explosions impact their vacations.
3. I am grateful that we have had so many wonderful years (30+) vacationing in SXM. We chose Belair Beach Hotel because it is small, safe, quiet, and generally friendly. We may just have to find those qualities elsewhere in the future.

Not a SINGLE comment below that article on the newspaper's website. Might be time to fill up that comment section...

I will now show my ignorance. SO what exactly is it? 400 jobs doing what? 100,000 visitors/year but it is not a hotel or resort....???

Since SXMScubaman provided a link the the groundbreaking article, I am going to lock this discussion and start a new once since this is rather lengthy. Please continue any further discussion in the new thread.

Thank you.