WestJet Aborted Landing/Updated Explaination

Somebody mentioned this the other day. Tuesday there was a lot of rain, clouds and wind and I knew there was a 2nd landing attempt as I thought it was posted. This may be some embellishment of what happened but I am sure someone staying in the Maho area posted about WestJet aborting a landing the other day.

WestJet

The article states what I would say as a pilot, a go around is nothing to be ashamed of if things aren't right. Luckily they recognized it and executed the go around. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Happened to us on an AA flight from Miami. Just about wheels on the ground and then up and away. Saw SSBG from the window before airborn again. My wife's nails were impeded in my thigh. Landing to remember.

Agreed, but in this circumstance it sounds like they were way low over water...

It was Sheila who saw it and mentioned it on facebook.

I saw a pic and the jet blast was making a wake in the water.crazy loe.

Video

A few years ago we had 'one of those landings' on an AA flight from JFK. We were sitting way up front and watching out the window and we both commented we thought our position for landing was way off and as we actually neared the Maho area, the pilot powered up and did a go-round. It had happened one other time so we weren't too worried.

Back again and all lined up and we can see the faces of the fence hangers as we're coming in and at what seemed like a quarter of the way down the runway, we did another up, up and away and another big circle.

By this time, there was almost dead silence on the plane and not word one from the crew. Thank God, the third time was a charm, for more reasons than one.

We were later told by someone who actually watched this all happening from the Sunset Beach Bar that had the pilot not made it in to land on the third attempt we were then bound for Puerto Rico. I don't know if that last is fact or fiction but I want to tell you, it was one very scary arrival and I don't think we were ever as low over the water as that plane in question appears to be in the photo posted. His reaction was, "Oh my God! You were on that flight? We were all praying for you....." I didn't think it was quite thaaaat bad but I was somewhat worried too. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Wow! It looks a lot worse in the video!! Glad all turned out well in the end. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

So Sheila saw the actual go-around??

I was watching it live. A big truck (garbage truck?) was passing the fence at the same time and he slammed the brakes on. I think they scared each other! Then they shut the runway down for a bit. Glad it all worked out safely!

Yes and she posted on her personal facebook page about as it was happening. I knew I had seen it mentioned by someone I knew.

OK. Glad it turned out ok..

Don't jets have a system to detect actual altitude instead of an altimeter?

They no doubt had a pressure altimeter (pressure altitude), a radar altimeter ( altitude above ground return) and probably a gps altitude indication. I suspect they got distracted on approach and off the glideslope. Make no misunderstanding unless a down draft brought them lower or an autopilot system was misprogrammed/malfunctioned they were either making a poor visual approach, poor non precision instrument approach, or poor precision instrument approach. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Definitely worth the company looking into that approach and what was going on. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

This is what you pay those two for.

And another Video.

Well, that certainly should silence the naysayers. Definitely not photoshopped or faked in any way. Scary stuff.

Sheila was at Royal Island and saw it in person and we talked about it at the TTOL party last Wed. The weather that day was really bad considering the time of year. Visibility was very poor with low clouds, fog and off and on rain with wind. A landing is not usually aborted unless something dictates the need.

I don't know how long that was, but it was definitely too low. Very scary!

So, I just checked for TNCM, the real code for SXM and there are no precision instrument approaches for SXM. The VOR, the little round radio station on the ground near the runway and the casino is called PJM. In this case they would shoot the VOR approach to PJM or a GPS approach, which doesn't have a true ground generated glideslope to the runway.

Often private instrument pilots will descend through the clouds down to the MDA, minimum descent altitude, hoping to see the ground and some cue of the runway and then they limp it in from there. If they don't see runway they are obligated to declare a missed approach and go around.

If the weather was very poor as ruralcarrier said, then they may of been on the edge of very good job.

Many airaft today can generate an artificial glideslope from gps with a gps augmentation system called (WAAS). Have no idea if Westjet has it onboard. If they did, it didn't work well enough in that weather if it was turbulent.

I'm seeing some instrument proficiency simulator time for the crew. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Just curious........naysayer's of what?

Mentions elsewhere of this being photoshopped and possibly embellished, as I mentioned previously.

It was very poor weather conditions that day and they deteriorated into the afternoon. I was there and for the time of year, one of the overall worst days (not in hurricane season) I have experienced over many years of visits.

I saw posts here and on Facebook where people said the original photos were photoshopped and that the story was exaggerated.

Thank you for the video with both landing and landing attempt I did not realize how low to the water he was on the initial attempt
Glad he aced it on the second go
Horrible conditions

Actually, I didn't see anyone here who said the photos were photoshopped. I really have no idea whether the plane was ever in any real danger, but it would have made me nervous, if I was watching it or freaked out if I were onboard!!

The article and photo look fake. Take a look at the video and then explain how the photo looks so clear and the water so blue on a grey overcast day that the video shows.
Secondly, they need to regulate box trucks from accessing that road. Have such a tall truck crossing that road on a plane's arrival is a recipe for disaster.

Its not fake

The still picture may be photoshopped to add blue to the photo, maybe. Regardless the plane was way too low, as shown by the video, and as several people saw, including some here on TTOL.

With regard to keeping box trucks off that road, you know where that road goes to, don't you???? That's the ONLY way to access Sunset, Alegria, etc., and I don't know, roughly 200 houses, so about the only way for many deliveries. Box trucks aren't any taller than busses, and there are a bunch of busses that go to Sunset.

I have often wondered to myself why they don't cede a little of the MB side of the runway and create some kind of an emergency access to that whole area. I realize there's not a lot of undeveloped space and places like BSV and Karakter wouldn't appreciate a taking of land any more than the airport would but I often think and worry about what might happen if there was a real emergency requiring large vehicles access on a big scale. There I go again - I'm definitely a 'what iffer' ....... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I really don't think there is any way to do that, unless they were to put a road literally on the beach there outside the airport fence after Karakter and then move the fence in a little bit to join up the road to the road outside Beachside. That would cost the earth and be an engineering nightmare..

I guess, but it seems like the possible safety of so many homes and residences back there would make an emergency only access road more important than some of the ways the government spends their dollars.

Just a thought...... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

There were comments to that effect on the original linked news article. Perhaps that's where I saw them.

I missed them, I guess.. Doesn't matter, as Rob from sxmblue today said he didn't believe the original article. To me, the video is much more damning than the still picture anyway.

For what it is worth, Forbes and others (yahoo for one) are now linking to this also.

Forbes

Ok.......I saw that link on another site...that one was obviously photo shopped....and pretty funny I might add. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> If I come across it again I'll post it up here for a good laugh. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, I didn't see a photoshopped shot, nor did I refer to one. Nothing funny about this almost tragic situation.

Anyone know what time this happened? Just curious as I took a photo from SBR of a squall going through Simpson Bay....heavy rain and wind. Camera indicated 7:58 am but adjusting for the time changes would put it about 10 am.

That West Jet flight arrives mid afternoon.

"I saw posts here and on Facebook where people said the original photos were photoshopped and that the story was exaggerated."

My reference to "being funny" was obviously referring to the photo shopped version.

OK, I'm not going to argue with you. I said I didn't see or refer to any photoshopped photos. I said others had said the original photo was photoshopped. I did not see a photoshopped picture, nor did I ever believe the original picture was altered.

Regardless, and directed to no one in particular:

I was chatting with a friend who's a pilot for Jet Blue, and who has flown into SXM multiple times. I asked him about the planes having something to alert the pilots that they're too low. This is a part of his answer:

They are, the plane might have gotten into a microburst if weather was bad. Can cause you to drop 100's if not 1000's feet in seconds. Back about 20 years ago a USAir plane going into CLT got in one and crashed on short final. After the investigation was over it was determined due to bad weather a microburst was created due to the thunderstorm. New rules and equipments where installed to look for this type of weather it is not 100% accurate due to how rapidly it changes and the rule now is to wait until the conditions improve before attempting a landing. However the other factors are how long you can wait with the amount of fuel on board and where your alternate airport might be. Really is a lot of factors that play into the decisions and usually you only have a very short amount of time to decide, happens very fast.

Thanks, JD - I did see the whole thing from my balcony at Royal Islander. I felt bad for the photographer who took that pic because people were saying it was fake, and I'm glad video evidence proved it was not. He came out of the clouds so low and leaning toward one side. Before I could finish saying "Holy sh.....!", he pulled up and bailed. Very scary <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Sheila! Have fun.

I too am an instrument rated pilot. Yeah, I agree!! for whatever reason, the crew definitely descended below the MDA (Minimum Decent Altitude) on that approach.

Your friend is right and if they did get a downdraft from a microburst they are very lucky and would be a good rationale for being that low.

A microburst is always what drove the Delta L1011 into the ground short of runway in Dallas in summer of 1985. Nothing the crew could do to counteract the downward force.

The technology for detecting has come along way but not every airport has it.

Either way I'm sure everyone is glad the bird safely landed.

I know the photographer and she does not photo shop-another http://christinenegroni.com/westjet-denies-close-call-caught-camera-st-maarten/aviation photographer friend saw the plane drop from the clouds and didn't get the shot. He did see Chris on a nearby rooftop take the shot. Here is a link to Christine Negroni's site discussing the near miss.
http://christinenegroni.com/westjet-denies-close-call-caught-camera-st-maarten/ hope this link works!

Statement from WestJet.

They didn't exactly say what the changing conditions were. There is not an instrument landing system ILS there but if there was they would probably have been full deflection low on the needles.

They recognized and reacted but make no mistake they were below mda at that distance out from runway.

Th decision to go around was probably a little late and a little low.

It was a great go around though. Once the decision to go around was initiated they put the coals to it.

I don't know what article you are referring to but I can also tell you it is a true story because I had a customer on that flight & he said people in the window seats were all talking about how close they were to the water. The plane went back up & then had to circle for 45 minutes until the weather cleared enough for them to make their second attempt.

My opinion as a long-time reporter: WestJet is doing CYA. It should investigate thoroughly, give the pilot and co pilot time off with pay until the investigation is over, and modify procedures if necessary. They were way too low and should have pulled up & aborted earlier...that is what veteran pilots who looked at this told us before we wrote our story.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a65586e&opt=0

Thanks for the update.

I don't recall any story claiming the plane nearly crashed, not sure where that came from or perhaps I missed that story.

The photographer said she "thought the plane was going to crash". Perhaps that's where the Herald got their story.

Ok and thanks, I guess I missed that part.

After reading this thorough look into the data on this approach, I think Westjet and the TSB have done enough. They've taken the occurrence seriously to find out the facts surrounding this successful missed approach.

As an instrument pilot, this is what you pay those folks for. Instrument flying is serious business and together they recognized where they were. There are many, many instances where aircrew have not.

Good job guys upfront. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />