Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge

Just spent a delightful afternoon at Baie Rouge....Gus started up again last Saturday with beach lounge chair/umbrella/drinks operation....he said he plans to be there daily and may add a grill later....his house was part wood and part cement.and they survived the hurricane in the cement part but the rest is gone....he’s a trooper and was glad to see him back....Dave

Is he doing this legally or?????

Good for Gus!

Is this the same Gus that has units to stay in Grand Case and rents cars?

So hope this works out, but ........

Is this the same person who got a jail sentence recently for operating an unlicensed restaurant?

Great to hear to nice a beach not to have people on it

I think that was Chez Raymond.

LINK to previous discussion.

OK thanks.

Many years ago, “ back in the day.....” and long before Gus or any other island entrepreneurs came to this beach and set up their operations, we used to spend lovely days there. We’d pack a small cooler with a few drinks and snacks and toss our towels onto the sand and enjoy the moments. You did have to deal with the coarse and grainy sand and you needed to be aware of the undertow but it was paradise found to so many, and so it is today to those who appreciate the services offered there now.

Mixed feelings about that news. I doubt it is legal since it was not legal for many years and the GOV went in and tore it down. Like many beaches on the Island they become very overrun with people and cars that pour onto private property and crowd the roads. I think a few beaches that are NOT commercialized would be a good thing.

Carol......No, Gus did not receive a jail sentence. We're very good friends with Gus.....well over 20 years. He upon going down to his bar to check for damage/or if it still was there after the hurricane was told that he could not rebuild. He has tried to do the correct thing, permit wise, but still is being told he or anybody else can not rebuild. He is also being told he will not get a permit. I spoke with him the other day, he told me that he was back on the beach renting chairs and selling drinks, but was told not to come back because the beach is a private beach and no one can rent chairs or sell drinks. He was approached by roughly 20 Grandmares [sp] and told to pack up and leave. He was also told the Baie Rouge owners association doesn't want anyone on their beach. Gus is determined to make a living selling to his long time customers......he says "I have a license to sell, they have granted me, so I want to make a living". He pointed out to me a few times......since I was born, the beaches of St. Martin have always been public domain...nobody owns the beaches. I don't know what the outcome of this is going to be.......although after our conversation, I know Gus is determined to do what he has always done. Times have definitely changed......not for the better.

So what your saying is that even though he has been told he can't legally operate on that beach he is doing it anyway. Not good.

It appears it was the owner of Chez Raymond who received a suspended jail sentence. However, it appears to be that this can hardly be a long term operation, since Gus acknowledges he doesn't have a permit and won't get one..

I have a new attitude toward the illegal beach bars and chair rentals on the public beaches. Leave them alone! The beaches are public and the owners of beach villas do not own the beach. The activity of a beach vendor adds security to tourists andis all good !

Correct. The beaches are for public use but not for a business operation. If he is allowed to get away with it how many others will do the same thing on that beach or others?

I disagree with you. Take Colin and Cedric on Club Orient. They both are bringing a service to tourists and making money.

Doesn't make it right if not legal.

It is not the place for us to judge what is right or wrong in another Country. No one is getting hurt here!

I'm not judging what is right or wrong. The French Government has through their laws.

The legal entity is the Association Syndicale des Propriétaires des Terres Basses; the formal English translation is the Landowners Association Terres Basses, Inc. The Association claims to own or at least have extraordinary legal rights to the lowland beaches because of the fact that Erik Lawaetz, with the assistance of the then Mayor, in 1959, obtained a deed from some governmental authority in Paris to the domain land (i.e., the beaches) of the lowlands. (Erik Lawaetz is a huge name in the history of the island's tourism - he died in 2010 at the age of 96.) The Association always claimed that no one had the right to operate any commercial operation of any kind on the lowland beaches, unless authorized by the Association - Raymond and Gus were never so authorized. Over the years since they set up their operations, the Association has made efforts to get them off Baie Rouge, but never was able to get it done until post-Irma. The Association is legally obligated and committed to leave open at least one access path to the three lowland beaches and to permit people to enjoy the beaches. But, the Association always has taken the position, and it seems that the Collectivitie now definitely agrees as a legal matter, that no one can have a commercial operation on the beaches. I suppose the Association could make a deal and permit a commercial operation, but I do not think that ever will happen.

Thanks for the in depth clarification.

He does have a license/permit to sell, but not a permit to rebuild his beach bar. I asked him if his license was taken away after the hurricane, but he said no. Being that he is of the "older generation" of islanders he is having difficulty with the new ideas/rules/regulations. Over the years[since mid 80's] of having his establishment on the beach he didn't encounter much problems with the government except for them making sure that locals were working for him. Until recently has there been any problem with the building itself. Some sort of officials would come down and say this needs to be done, or that needs to be done. He would comply and they would be satisfied for a bit then come back with demands again.

I'm not going to say who is wrong or who is right......but my heart feels for Gus [he's our SXM family] and every other person on the island that has had their livelihood, home, employment, family taken away by mother nature and governments new rules. I understand the permit thing......safety, hygiene, order, etc. But, put yourself in this mans shoes......put yourself in the situation of this life is the only life you know. His business is gone, his home almost completely destroyed, his vehicles - one gone, one totaled. This past March we visited Gus in what was left of his house.....just a small one room concrete structure with whatever of his possessions survived.....it was so sad, I had to do all I could not to cry in front of him. So if the government won't give people like Gus a new building permit, but will let him have a license to sell, what is the answer? He unlike Chez Raymond did not just go back to the beach and rebuild without a permit....hence the jail sentence. He has met with, as he says " the big government people" a few times, but no permit is given. I really don't see them budging.

I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but to us why not grant these people that have been selling/renting most of their lives on all the beaches the proper permits. The small locally owned beach bars and other establishments is what drew us to keep coming back to the island since 1987. Not trying to start a right/wrong heated debate, but what is wrong with having a few palm covered beach bars on a beautiful beach for all to enjoy.

Looks like it is also a problem with the Association Syndicale des Propriétaires des Terres Basses; the formal English translation is the Landowners Association Terres Basses, Inc. that is also involved in this as explained in a pior post along with French laws.

I remember setting an easy up on Baie Rouge years ago and an owner from a villa came down the beach yelling and screaming. He was not even in view of our tent on the beach. He was ranting and practically tore our shade tent before my hubby told him to back off. We left the beach and never returned.

Snorkeller, thanks for clarifying. As you I don't see the association changing their minds or their regulations. With the legal rights set forth in back in 1959, you would have thought that something would have been done many many years ago.......doesn't appear they "tried" that hard. Guess it took the muscle of a rotten hurricane to do the job. I still hope that kindness will prevail and permits will be granted.....one can only hope!

It has never been the local beach vendors that has given us reason to not return but the homeowners of beach properties that act mentally out of their minds that keep me off the public beaches. I had an owner of Club Orient ( I knickname him pony tail) who threw an umbrella at my friend and I ???? It is crazy!

You should encourage Gus to write a book about his life and experiences on the island. The changes that have occurred on the island just during his life time are remarkable. It would be fascinating to read about how he got started at Baie Rouge, how he hung on as many years as he did, his fights with the Association, how the heck he and Raymond co-existed as they did - shoot, I'll buy a copy when it comes out.

Snorkeller......it would be a great story! Over the years we have sat with him and listened to many of his stories.....some happy some sad. One thing I will say about Gus.....he is a character...:-) You mentioned changes......I can only imagine! The island has changed so much since we've been going.....just think how it has for him. I'll see what I can do about the book....LOL

sxmmartini.....definitely know what you mean. We've witness some homeowners flipping their tops, just being rude for no legitimate reason on public beaches. Unfortunately ruining their and everyone else's day.

Gus is a wonderful person. I hope that something can be worked out for him. I miss the old St Martin of the 1980’s.

I for one would support Gus on all of this and I hope he wins in the end, they either are going to take away his ability to operate in a location they have allowed for a couple decades or get rid of a ruling that is not consistent with either side of the island. I hope he gets island support, let me know where to donate to and I will!

No Private Beaches - Gus should stay !

I don't think the issue is beach access. The issue is running a concession or business on the beach that is forbidden to do so by a long standing ruling. I feel bad for him too but he has known this before.

Since I started this post and have read the comments so far, I offer these two observations....one ....owners of the Baie Rouge association properties probably would like to see “their beach” private and none of us would enjoy it....and two....thankfully, so far both the French and Dutch governments have held fast on assuring that “ all beaches are public” and must have public access. If that ever changes we can all, as the Eagles Don Henley song “The Last Resort” states ...call it paradise...kiss it goodbye....Dave

Especially on the Dutch side, it almost seems like the idea of a public beach is honored more in the breach than observance thereof, but having a commercial establishment on a beach is a different question. Which is not to say that I agree with the landowners, but it appears to be a different question, especially with regard to Baie Rouge.

Can't wait to see the members of the "Association" cleaning up the garbage on the beach when people BYO and don't clean up. Baie Rouge is one of the nicest on SXM. What harm did it do to anyone having Gus and Raymond there. The beach with great chicken and ribs was a plus for the Island, especially the fact that the chairs were spread out unlike Mullet and Sunset. Live and let live.

It is a shame that their businesses can't be grandfathered since they have
been there for so many years!

Having them there does make it safer for people to enjoy the beach.

Sad, that there is so much greed......

My wife and I have been going to Baie Rouge for years. It is one of the nicest and quietest beaches on the island. In regard to Gus. He was always pleasant and all those who worked for him were very nice and good to all who visited. As for whether he is operating legal or not is a non-starter as it seems to be an issue for some on this thread.
He never bothered anyone and if he wasn't operating legally, there was no harm to persons or property owners. He was giving visitors what they wanted. He saw an opportunity and ran with it. If anything, he has been an asset to all who visit the beach. He keeps an eye on those who park in the lot and prevents break-ins.
The problem with the villa owners is they are worried about the element invading what they consider "their" beach. If you look at the average beach goer to Rouge they are just there to enjoy the beach. What they should worry about is the beach pervs who go to look at top-free females. Let's call it for what it is. The owners don't like this and would love nothing more than to privatize the beach and keep the tourists and locals out. Just because they may have the money, they want to buy the political power. Should and if the government does interfere with Gus' operation and attempt to impose the will of some owners, then they are doing harm to themselves, the livelihood of the citizens and the economic power of the tourism industry. The government should go after the real criminals starting within the few that may be within their own ranks.

Well said!!!!!!! He was/is helping the island by employing people, keeping the beach clean and protecting people’s cars. Give the man a break!!!!!!!! It is one of our favourite beaches but we would not feel safe if he wasn’t there.

Love that beach

We have been going to SXM since 1985 and enjoyed this beach every trip , while the sand is hard to walk in just love this place . To be able to have chairs available is a real plus we have never seen any trash on the beach thanks to the people who rent the chairs . The association should really look at this if they would just get there head out of the sand and see how much better this could be for all .

Illegal is.illegal........... it's not like it's a new rule.

So true. People need to get over it. Good while it lasted but laws are laws.

Correct and correct. Some will complain when laws are not enforced and others will complain when they are enforced.

Aint that the truth.

If the government wants to enforce the law, it should get its collective heads out of the sand. Go after violent criminals, protect the property of its populace from predators, and offer economic opportunity and development for individuals. Maybe then we wouldn't have the "laws are laws" debates. Last I checked, in a democracy people have the right to question and challenge laws they deem unfair. Unless the island became a dictatorship while I wasn't looking, keep challenging unfair government practices. Go Team Gus!

Go Team Gus! Public beaches, regardless of any agreements made, and with that the ability of private businesses to service the beaches not blocked by a small group of residents that want a private beach. Illegal is allowing for a private beach.

Its not the illegal use of a beach by beach goers, its operating a business concession without the proper license or permits issued by the government.

I live in Sarasota County and we have similar problems with homeowners on the beach. These multi million dollar plus homeowners don't want us trashy folk on "their" beach. The way the laws of ownership are written make it private property up to a specific point, which for ease of enforcement, that has been deemed the mean water line. Basically it says that if the sand is "hard" it is public but if the sand is "soft" it's private.

Now we have the few homeowners that are just plain stupid but would call the sheriff's office to get trespasser(s) off their property. Sometimes it would be a family or a couple that didn't want to be crowded on the public beach so they walked 100 yards down the beach and put down their towels. You can say that we should go after the "real" criminals, which I used to hear all the time when I would stop someone for a traffic violation, however the law is in the favor of the landowner because technically he or she owns up to the hard sand line. Ridiculous, yes but it's still their property.

As for setting up a business that's still yet another problem and if the land ownership is anything like what I just explained here in Sarasota then the person is utilizing private property to operate an illegal business. Taking aside the benefit of the business, the land owners still have the right to complain. We all would like to think that in paradise people are chill but the truth of the matter is that this is these people's homes.

I live on a now defunct golf course and I would be upset if someone came into my yard and started selling sandwiches and beverages. As a cop I never patrolled the beaches looking for people setting up towels on others' "property" but if they called us for enforcement we had no choice but to deal with it.

The beach is public. There are laws protecting the beach and requiring permits. No permit, you shouldn't be there. Why do so many of you promote breaking the law?

Totally agree.

Because they enjoyed the place and the person/people without regard to the local laws. Sad as that may be.

It is not about breaking the law, or ignoring the law. It is that a small local group is able to restrict what permits are allowed on public property. I am sure they are not the only group that restricts what happens on their stretch of beach but there is a flaw there. I will miss having Gus there although we did not go to that beach as much as we once did. It would be nice to have somebody there servicing the beach area, and I would like to see that allowed and would support his efforts to be able to do that.

Were there ever any legal permits applied for? If so were they denied, approved or never acted on? I have no idea but you did refer to "It is that a small local group is able to restrict what permits are allowed on public property."

X3

I disagree dear friend. The vendor was breaking the law. The surrounding property owners asked to have the law upheld and sorry but Hallelujah on the French side they actually enforce the law. Right or wrong, it's the law. So wish it was so on this side.

Just to give you folks and update- Gus is still there, he is renting out the chairs and umbrellas but you need to come early or you will get none... he makes drinks, but not the blended ones. No power, no water... basically, operates out of his cooolers under the umbrella. Charging now $20 for a set of two chairs and umbrella. He said that he does have a food and alcohol permit so he can sell it anywhere on a French side but he can not rebuild his bar. No permanent structures allowed.
I was happy to see him there, at least you can get some basic stuff. He mentioned that he is trying to set up a bbq grill and start cooking food.

Any bathroom facilities??

Just the big blue sea.

Go Gus!

Good for Gus!

Well here is another update: on Tuesday we went to Bai Ruge again, rented chairs and umbrella from Gus. The day was a bit windy, our umbrella didn’t work very well, was constantly bent over in a wrong way, lol! I saw a few more heavy duty umbrellas in a pile next to Gus’s stand and came to ask to get mine replaced.... to my huge surprise Gus asked me for another $10.00!!! I said “ Are you serious or is it a joke?” He was serious! I pointed out that we had the heavy duty umbrella before and NEVER had to pay more for it... I was really pizzed. I told him that there is no way I am going to pay more than $20 for a set! He ended up getting me a different umbrella but not the one that I wanted...
He doesn’t have many takers for his sets. Most locals bring their own stuff and I counted only 4 rented sets that day. If Gus wants to survive there- he needs to stop penny pinch people. That will create an unhappy customers for sure!
Instead of gouging people, he should’ve offered a cheaper rate for a set to people who arrive after 2-3 pm, maybe like $10.00. In that case all the locals who come in for a few last hours would rent for sure, but not for $20!
Ok, my rant is over...

What was his reasoning for charging more for a better umbrella?

Laughable! He said it’s bigger and cost more! And just a few days ago, when there were more chairs were set up, the price was the same!

Questionable business practice from someone that originally operated without the proper permits. Seems to be a pattern with Gus.

It's a shame there's apparently no "grandfather" clause that would cover him.

Well said, Deputy Dog. I lived on the beach in Broward County for 60 years, still have a condo on the ocean on Hutchinson Island. You're correct on the high water mark info. Unfortunately, too many people "borrow" hotel or condo or someone's personal facilities, chairs, pools, often leading to owners who have just "had it." Now if they wanted to borrow my stuff and kick in for the mortgage, taxes, hurricane insurance, etc., that might make a difference!

With no original permit how could he be grandfathered in? Squaters rites? Don't think so.

You all need to get a grip. Gus can charge whatever he wants, just as you can.
Don't like it? Don't pay it. Bring your own chair.
Or sit on your towel.
And don't compare your experiences "living on the coast" in US to anything outside of US.
Cheers
I

Over the years we have enjoyed Baie Rouge and even going to Gus's place. I believe in Live and let Live but also in Fair is Fair. The issue as I see it is not the Home Owners Assoc but really more a French Gov issue as neither of those beach restaurants had proper , plumbing, restrooms, water, lights, so no health permit or operating license. It just a safety for the consumer and Gov has that obligation to keep it safe. The French GOV shut them down after years and years of looking the other way and allowing it. They aren't just picking on Gus, they are trying to make if fair and safe for everyone. It is a public beach but the parking lot is Home Owner Assoc owned and the Sunday beach crowd of cars often poured onto private lots and local streets which created a traffic hazard. After years and years of what I would guess was FREE RENT sitting on that beach doing business, and I would guess no profit taxes paid, and no employee taxes paid etc so.... I'd say he is way ahead of his fellow business owners that plays by the gov rules and pays a fair share to support the Island. But somehow you have a few people that's always more entitled and more vocal because they are more local or just a good guy. In one way its kind of a lot to do about nothing but again their are rules for even Gus and the next Gus. I do like having the option of renting a chair etc and I truly wish him a lot of luck but after all the GOV went through to shut them down and clean up the beach which does look great now, I doubt they will allow it to get going again much longer without proper permits. But it is SXM so who knows.

X2

X2

On a FB SXM page yesterday someone posted that the police came and took Gus's chairs and umbrellas and shut him down again. Can anyone confirm?

We are very good friends of Gus', I talked to him yesterday, yes the police did go to the beach and take all his stuff.....and left with it.

Foreversxm : Gus does have a permit to sell, No he doesn't have a permit to rebuild.....and the government will not give him a permit to rebuild on Baie Rouge. When he went to see about a building permit, they told him no, but agreed that he does have a permit to sell. So he basically set up an easy up type of shade and was selling drinks and renting chairs and umbrellas. Now they told him he can't do that there.

Violations can be "grandfathered" in some cases when the infraction is allowed/overlooked by officials for a period of time. Depends on the community, history, etc. Grandfathering doesn't always have to depend on a previously issued permit. Experience from 8 yr chair of P&Z and Bd of Adj. Did you mean "squatters rights" or were you referencing some arcane religious sect with "squaters rites"? Just a lighthearted jest!

There is a post on TripAdvisor stating that the Police raided Gus and confiscated all his chairs and umbrellas on Feb 22nd.

Here is in this thread, Islandcouple stated that they had talked to him personally and confirmed it, just two posts above yours.