Caravanserai now Alegria

A friend just got notice that their timeshare agreement with Caravanserai is voided, also agreement with exchange company RCI. So it seems that if they don't want to use that resort they can no longer exchange to go somewhere else. Anyone else it such a letter. What is your take?

Yikes.. That doesn't sound good, no exchanges..

Can they possibly do that? I thought the island was going to provide stop gaps to prevent this kind of stuff happening to the timeshare owners.

I just got my letter via email from Alegria stating that they will offer you a hotel room at the resort if you pay to them what your annual fees were to Caravanserai. It sounds like another "screw the ts owners" from the St. Maarten govt.when they allow us to have no say on the outcome of the Caravanserai. They let Manek get away with murder and then will sacrifice the ts owners since we all should be able to afford the loss. What a country

This thread has me worried.

Just curious, are they trying to collect prior years maintenance fees or current year fees?

Am I missing something here...isn't this what all timeshares do. After payment of your purchase price, you pay maintenance fees every year and use your timeshare.

If you get their agreement, they ask you to waive any conditions that you may have had prior (points, time of year, type of unit etc.) They only state that if you pay your money, if a unit is "available" will they honour your request for a unit but it could be in the summer or when it is not suitable to the former ts owner. It sounds that they want you to waive any rights you have in order to resell the units in the complex.

I am fully paid up in maintenance fees. they are trying to get the ts owners to decide by November 1/2014 if they will agree to their terms on waiving any rights you had with the prior company. They are stating that the Bank of Nova Scotia never agreed that Manek could sell the timeshares and the sales were illegal.........

Can you post the whole thing, including sender's ID and contact info so we all can see it??? There's panic out there and most people haven't yet even seen the email. I'd like to get the full text to govt folks so they can get involved if any laws have been broken here.

This is the whole thing:

This is the agreement that Caravanserai wants all timeshare owners to agree to. It is posted at Agreement Letter
The cover email reads:

From: alegria operations <alegriaoperations@outlook.com>
To: alegria operations <alegriaoperations@outlook.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 4, 2014 1:47 pm
Subject: Timeshare Agreement status at THE CARAVANSERAI BEACH RESORT&#8207;

Dear Timeshare owner,

Attached please find a letter that is intended to update you on the status as a timeshare owner at the Caravanserai Beach Resort.

Should you have any questions or comments, please contact us directly via this email address or by telephone number 721-545-4000.

Sincerely,

The Management of
Alegria Operations N.V.

WOW. Looks like all the timeshare units were sold with out permission from the Bank and are now null and void. Feel sorry for the people duped. Looks like the only recourse is through Kildare Properties LTD which is probably no longer. It also states that Alegria can terminate their agreement if they want with you even though you sign the agreement. Not a good place to be in.

Does this mean that people who bought a 1 or 2 bedroom now have access to only a hotel room? Could this mean that they will finish off the other two buildings as hotels and that is what the timeshare owners will have access to? This letter does not really explain anything.

Exactly...clear as mud.

Well, this is pretty serious.

Jeff, can you help us find out more? The new owner wants us to pay our regular maintenance fee, that once covered a timeshare, that will now cover a hotel room?

The way it reads I'm not sure if they are asking for the current MF or the original one they charged and was in effect at the time of TS purchase.

IF this is legal and IF it stands, chalk up one more black eye for the island of St. Maarten. I so hope the interpretations here are wrong for everyone's sake.

The way I read it, you pay the equivalent of you MF to rent the room for a week. Which might be the standard room rate for the hotel and as a hotel you don't pay the money up front. And the kicker is "if available" ( which you probably won't know a week before your arrival date).

SXM??? Wendell

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the bank had assigned someone to overlook the running of Caravanserai for quite some time pending the sale. If the timeshare sales were going on openly in the lobby while being run by a bank assigned person then it seems to me that the bank therefore waived any objection to timeshare sales and in fact was giving approval to timeshare sales and even encouraged the sale of timeshares to maximize profit for the bank and attract a buyer. It seems disingenuous for someone to argue otherwise.

In fact it seems to me if at any time someone working at the front desk while the bank had taken over had printed out a charge or collected a timeshare tax from anyone staying there or cashed/deposited a timeshare maintenance fee then that person was acting as am agent of the bank and approving in writing the existence of timeshares at the resort.

Looks like a very expensive $$$$ and time consuming class action suit in a St Maarten court that will probably never be settled to the satisfaction of the TS owners. Hate to say it but suck it up and run.

I can't answer questions now (no time) but I'm working behind the scenes to make some things happen.I need your help everyone...

*************
URGENT RE: CARAVANSERAI
*************

We are working on a lot of things related to this situation. Right now, we URGENTLY need to know a) if there is a Caravanserai Timeshare Owners Association; b) if so, who heads it and how we may get in touch with the top people (phone/email); and c) we need similar contact info for people who have a lot of ownership at the resort (many weeks / penthouse / etc.) Please do *NOT* put this info online; email it to jmbweb[at]jmbcommunications.com as quickly as possible, preferably during the day on Sunday. Time is of the essence to move forward on this situation... I need your help....

EXACTLY! And by the way I like your shirts,especially his!

Okay, being relatively new to T/S ownership (9 yrs) this obviously sounds disastrous, especially to those of us who purchased our week outright back in 2006 (pre-construction)& who bought a 3 bedroom unit!!! We paid $20,000 for the week. I know of other T/S buildings that have been converted to hotels but the T/S owners have been asked to sell their units back and are paid a seemingly generous percentage of the initial purchase price up to about 75%. This seems like a TOTAL loss on the T/S owners behalf. No T/S unit, no compensation and loss of RCI points!!! We can't imagine that all of the owners will just walk away and chalk it up to a bad experience. Of course it is my gut reaction to hope that if this is the option we are left with that NOBODY EVER stays at the Algeria and that the new owners lose their investment of 12 million as fast as possible. I can see Trip Advisor and any other social media vehicle being bombarded with negative comments about the Algeria with hopes to spread the word about what a rotten deal the T/S owners received. I know that recourse for such actions in another country will probably be very difficult but doing absolutely nothing doesn't sit well with me either. We love visiting SXM so much and will continue to do so regardless of the actions of the new owners of Algeria but if this stands, we will take every opportunity and use every media vehicle we can find to discourage any potential visitors from choosing this "hotel" while visiting SXM.

Deb & Lena

Jeff...I sent you an email. Let me know if you did not get it. And Paul got a lot of use out of that shirt over the years! LOL!

DebNLena

We have 2 Penthouse weeks so we feel your pain. And believe me I would not be quiet about this if they really do this to all of the loyal, repeat St. Maarten tourists who invested in Caravanserai and stuck with it through all of the difficult times. Shameful.

Yeah...I am a former full time lawyer who is now a stay at home mom. In the past 5 years my husband (at age 44) battled prostate cancer through surgery and radiation, my daughter got type 1 diabetes and went into a coma and nearly died, we lost 2 family members, a crazy former employee nearly destroyed our business, and I was diagnosed with a congenital peripheral nerve disorder. Despite all of that we have managed to stay married, protect our business, raise beautiful high achieving kids, and still donate to charity. We visit St. Maarten for 2 weeks every year and that is one of the joys in my life that is a respite from the stresses we have faced in life, and someone is tarnishing it. Suck it up and run is not in my genetic makeup. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Mecs, and others, did you receive a letter? I got a copy of one forwarded to me, but I still have not received a letter.

I am hopeful that next week we will have more clarity on the plan of the resort and what action we will have to take.

Good luck all,
T

No we have not received a letter.

Have not gotten a letter. Just copies sent by others and conversations with people.

We have not received our letter as of yet. After years of broken promises this will be disparaging. Not one to be a pessimist, but we will probably end up taking it in the shorts.

Wow, if the St. Maarten government allows this to happen, this will prove yet again that the only protection you have in buying a t/s is the integrity of the owners, like at LaVista. You have absolutely zero legal protection.

There are 60 timeshare units for 52 weeks. In July of 2013 there were 2,056 weeks sold with 1064 weeks still available. With more than 2,000 emails to be sent out, they must be methodically contacting us. We also have not received a letter.

In July/August the people in the lobby office upstairs were relentlessly trying to get people to sell back their timeshare units and join a vacation club. At the time I told them it bothered me because it looked like they were trying to get rid of timeshare owners so that any new Caravanserai owner would have vacant rooms to resell once he fixed up the resort. We did not trade our units back in because we had sleep 8 units which are needed for our large family. It seems I was right and it also seems like they all may have known this action was forthcoming. It Smells.

I think everyone is just rolling over and accepting this as a done deal which it very well MIGHT be...but...anyone can put anything in a letter and send it. It doesn't mean "the SXM Government" weighed in an approved it nor that the courts would uphold it if asked to become involved by those affected.

If anyone really wants to fight this I would think a signed right of use agreement for x years would be on their side. If THOSE agreements have no value then any right to use (not deeded) resort could "change hands" every few years and eliminate all purchases made and start over....and over....rinse and repeat.

I have no chips in this resort but it will set a precedent for all right to use "Vacation Ownership" aka "timeshares"

Great points, all.

If the new owners persist with this attempt to force the timeshare purchasers into submission, it sounds like a good island lawyer is needed to bring this before the Dutch courts and resolve the issues once and for all. You all purchased in good faith and since the convening Dutch authorities are already questioning the integrity of the island governments, this might be a good test case to see where they really stand. Sadly, this wouldn't be an inexpensive solution.

I can't help but wonder what will happen to those who are scheduled to stay there in the next few months while this is resolved. I wish you all good luck. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

What is the difference in the new change for owners of one or more weeks versus those that actually own the unit for the whole year?

If my memory serves me right, the units are deeded for 99 years. I am also in possession of the lease agreement which states that we have the right to occupy and use our unit until the end of 2020.

Did you buy the actual unit or did you buy individual weeks for use at designated times of the year?

We were to rent from what I believe to be an owner of the entire unit. I have seen them advertised for 3-400k.
The owner of the unit we were to rent for week 4 this year does not respond and I think this new ownership issue is the reason why. We are now committed to a different unit and I am glad based on all this uncertainty and chaos. I hope the owners of weeks or the units do not get the short end.

We bought an individual week but opted for points as opposed to weeks. The points allow us to trade into a smaller unit if we want for a longer period of time. We bought a week in a 3 bedroom penthouse but have been trading into Royal Islander for the past few years in a 2 bedroom for 2 weeks. The points can also be used for other travel, cruises, etc. Seemed like a much better deal at the time.

Been watching threads like this one for over a month. And some of the comments I really don't understand.

Lease holders were told the place would be finished in 2 years. How many times was this extended? Did this have all the adminities promised? Do you see a pattern here? I feel that his property has been a mess from day one and for some reason the leaseholders just kept putting up with the abuse.

I am really surprised the bank didn't shut down the resort. They are in the banking business NOT the hotel/TS business. They don't want to be in the hotel/TS business. Banks don't like their losses to get bigger, ie paying additional water, light and wages.

Then when the resort sold. I see comments like " Now we can see things get better finally". No one knew/knows what the plans of the new owner are. The place didn't make it as a TS and went back to the bank. So maybe the new owner might not go that direction?

I see this tread about the new owner dropping the TS business and now some lease holders want to fight. Don't you think the new owner had a team of lawyers investigate what could and couldn't be done before they even made the bid on the place? If the lease holders do fight ( which could take several years) do you still have to keep the yearly MF's up to date ( even if they triple) or be in breach of contract? How much money will it take ( or you want to spend) to take them to court? What happens if the new owner sells the place. Will the legal fight have to start all over again (send more money)?

And leaseholders want to blame the new owner for exercising their apparently legal right. As the same as you want to fight for, but apparently the new owners have more rights to the property.

SXM??? Wendell

Interesting take on it Wendell. But we own a cemetery here in the states. If we sold it the law would protect those who have purchased lots there and any future owner of the property would have to honor that regardless of what the bank wants. People were led to believe that timeshare law on St Maarten would similarly protect them in the sale of a property being openly used to solicit timeshare purchases.

All valid points. Will see what happens.

Thing that seems, at this point in time, might be??????? Is is only those "sales" that took place "after" the bank took control.

So many variables, and some seem to be getting emails and others not. This is not that hard to blast out to everybody. But evidently that did not happen??? So think there is more to the story than we know at this point.

I sort of agree with your assumption. But a cemetary lot is not a time share... Not sure I even want to go there .. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding, so do not take offense.

But there are better laws in the US vs SXM. But even so, there have been many horror stories even in the US about time shares.

I think at this point, people are seeing what has been posted. Maybe that does effect everybody, maybe it does not. The complication of the bank and the foreclosure is a wild kicker is the entire mix.

Not sure at this point anybody really knows?

Since the letter is dated Sep 30th and says RCI is shut off, I think others are getting the letter when the mail backlog clears.

Right on Wendell.

The details differ but the same thing is going on with the old Fairmont Hot Springs time shares in BC, Canada. The whole mess wound-up in the courts there with the new owners winning the first round but loosing on appeal. The decision was on the law so the case is back to square one.

Remember Pelican was not that long ago. It closed at the last minute for 2 weeks. With no warning to the Leasee's.

SXM??? Wendell

Sure seems like not many have received this, it was sent via email. They certainly have my email address. I know that they have my phone number as well, and my address. I am sure they have most others as well, so I do not get the why on this.

As for his team of lawyers, this gets to opinions of what should be able to be done vs. who will fight against it.

As for the property, you can bet it is going to get nicer and nicer there, especially if they intend to run as a hotel. I do not see this Ray as a guy that wants to own something unless it is nice, something he can be proud of. Think about that statement, in the end that may be key.

I hope we are able to get some clarity this next week.
Cheers,
Todd

Sorry, it seems like there is some fairly scary clarity right now--the t/s 'owners' are going to take it in the tookus.

No offense taken Eric. Not a perfect analogy. But just making the point that sometimes properties have certain obligations that transfer with them even might not be profitable for future owners.

Yes, as a hotel you have to be competitive in all aspects so this is a big plus. Wonder what the daily room rates will be?

SXM??? Wendell

Things are different on the island. It's not like the US or Canada. If the timeshare was originally affiliated with a US or Canadian company like Diamond, Marriot, etc than maybe there could be some recourse. This doesn't sound like that's the case in this situation. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

I would think (in order of security of purchase) that units purchased that are "deeded" are more secure than "right to use" units and definitely more secure than "points" which are not attached to any specific unit.

I do still think "right to use" just cannot be erased by a new buyer but the legal backup of that concept is what should be questioned....

I have zero confidence in any points ownership being honored by a new buyer.

Guess that is the question? At this point we do not know that anwser. Does it sound really really bad, yes. But at this point I do not know, nor do any of the timeshare owners know. Some evidenly have gotten emails and others have not. Is it that the ones that bought "after" the bank took over are effeted or is it everybody.

Not sure of the anwser as of now. Not downplaying it whatsoever, but we simply do not know what is what at this point. Will next week shed some lite on the situation.... hopefully so.

If everybody had gotten the email ....... then that says something, but because a whole lot have not gotten the email what does that say.. have no clue at this point.

Like I think there is more than what we may know right now. Hopefully for all concerned it will work out the best, hopefully that will be the case. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

But it is better to be prepared for bad news than not. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Not sticking up for the t/s industy at all, but just seems that there is a lot missing at this point.

I'm not sure that the points explanation is correct. As a points user and purchaser of week 44 (the week we purchased is stated in our lease agreement)we have the option to immediately tell RCI upon our return to the U.S that we will be staying in our unit for week 44 the following year (in this case lets say 2015). If we are not sure, RCI does not open up our unit to a points trade until 10 months out so in our case if we don't notify RCI by January 1st of 2015 that we intend to stay in our home base unit they can put our unit "in the pot" of units available. In our case, the unit is all three, deeded first under the sales contract, right to use under the lease agreement and a points unit under RCI. A separate fee is paid to RCI for the points each year so I'm not sure that points are really related to the ownership. But this being the only T/S that I own, I could be wrong.

...and don't you think that a letter of "annulment" of a persons' vacation ownership would be sent by some sort of certified mail rather than a simple email? Email out of SXM is really not that reliable...

I think there is more than we are seeing right now....something smells of skunk here

"Point" being (sorry) that RCI has dropped the resort so the points agreement would be null and void. They are out of the picture...

I do not understand how a unit can be "deeded" and be a "right to use" which is limited by x years....

Obviously if you have a deeded unit then you have a right to use it but there is a difference between a defined RTU ownership and a deeded one.

The points discussion is pertinent when the deeded or RTU agreement is changed to a points only ownership by agreement owner and resort (like SBR is trying to do)

I am saddened beyond belief but not surprised that this has happened.

We "owned" a one bedroom at Caravanserai for two weeks in March...

We received our letter this morning by email and it appears legit.

Is there any government agency which oversees the Timeshare industry on St. Maarten? If so, could someone post their phone# or email address so that the Caravanserai TS owners can contact them. I have the same agreement as DebNLena so it must be quite common. It states that the contract is valid for x amount of years, specific time of year and what unit that I would get. Also, gives the value of the points.

Ok, don't have the any idea about that. But anything is possible.

Could there email have gotten hacked?? Not sure that I beleve that, but then do not know either.

Just know that all kinds of emails comes in to my various email accounts that are not legit also. But that is not saying that this is legit, just don't know??

One thing I am sure of, is that there is more to follow! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

And unfortunately the spammers will follow, so be careful out there. Even if it mean checking the header informaton, etc! And NEVER open up a zip file as attachment! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> Bad things are there! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Just got my letter today - as I read this; I paid over $13,000 back in 2006 for what is now use of a hotel room if and when it's available but I must pay $800.00 a year if I want to use the hotel and I have no use of any other RCI property for trade. I'd be happy to sell my timeshare back to them for what I paid for it but to get this letter is unacceptable to me.

Directed to no one in particular. But if a timeshare goes out of business/bankrupt/etc aren't owners basically out? I look at it like if I own stock in a company and it goes belly up. I'm out? That's how I have always looked at my "investment" at the Towers. If they fold tomorrow what recourse do I have? SXM government is not set up to protect timeshare interval owners. There is no guarantee they stay affiliated with RCI or II. The legalities of this should be very interesting.

You could try Ted Richardson, the Minister of Tourism, Economic Affairs, Traffic and Telecommunication at Ted.Richardson@sintmaartengov.org to start.

Kim, you are right on the money. A bankruptcy or closing of a business cancelled your RTU. Might be why the name change as it was a bank foreclosure sale to a new enterprise under a new ownership. Hence the RTU is done.

i kinda agree with Scuba on this one. Since the resort was purchased from the Bank.....and the Caravanserai was totally bust and millions in debt, legally i believe that the corporation does no longer exist, and the monies paid into it are probably long gone.(or in this case in Mr. Manek's personal off shore bank account somewhere) I don't beleive the new owners of the property have to live up to any type of agreement made by the previous owner UNLESS the individual units purchased are actually recorded in some land bank (ie a SXM registry of deeds), but I do not beleive that Timeshares in Saint Maarten get recorded into something like this. I bet that the new owners are trying to ''appease'' the current individual timeshare owners by offering them a weekly rate for a hotel room the ''special rate'' of whatever the maintenance fee would've been on one's individual unit. of course, it sounds like people that owned a higher floor, or a larger unit (ie 2-3 bedroom or penthouse) could be subject to paying higher room rates for a lower standard size hotel room. Honestly, I can't see how the government will be able to help in this case...they sure aren't going to miraculously give millions of dollars to ''tourists'' that got swindled over the years. It's going to take years and years for this new named venture to remove the stink of it' previous ownership. Seems like since its early inception this particular property has been doomed. Someone walked away with millions....and the new venture starts off ''clean''. SMH

Todd & others the way I read the loan agreement from the bank is that it pertains to the actual property on which they had their liens. That would mean that the buildings in whole could not be sold & that parcels of the land could not be sold. The court ruled in the banks favor about the sale of some parcels of the actual land to the casino & two others. The court voided those sales because Manek did not have the banks permission to sell off pieces of the property to which they held a lien on. I had followed the court case involving Manek & the bank & the sale of timeshares was never brought up. The loan was given for the building of additional units for timeshare & condos. Additionally there are people who have had timeshare there way before Scotia Bank got involved.

I think this is a ploy by the new owner to try to get people to give up their units so they can sell them over again. He way overpaid for the property & figured this is how he will make his money back.

Anyone who wants to put a group together to speak with an attorney I can recommend the firm & lawyer that has been handling our case at RP. We are whole owners as opposed to TS owners but the TS group at RP that lost the first time around has also now gone to our attorney. PM me if you would like the names & contact info. Todd when I get to the island I can take you to see if him if you would like but I think action is needed before then.

I know that our leases at Pelican & RP have a guarantee of continued use by the government of The Netherlands regardless of who owns the property but I do not know if the ones from Caravanserai have that in them.

Good luck to everyone who owns there & anything I can do to help I am there for you.....

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Yes, there are a whole lot of things going on here. You have the foreclosure, not sure there was actaully a bankruptcy. But the bank owned the property for sure at some point. You have the sale.... are/was there any conditions to that sale?? Probably not, but we do not know.

Are ther ramifications to the curretn t/s owners, that is a given. Are there reasons that the new owner will do anything, again who knows. Is there a difference between owners that bought before the foreclosure and those that bought after the foreclosure... no clue and don't think anybody has a clue at this point in time.

Was there actually a deed, was there actually .............. whatever. Seems that everybody is speculating and what I find is strange (but not unrealistic at all) is that anybody so far that bought before the "foreclosure" has not received anything. Has anybody that bought before the foreclose recieve anything?? So far from the responses so far, that does not appear to be the case, but maybe I have missed some??? Previous owners, have you as of NOW recieved an email or letter? Not that it makes any difference, but maybe it does?

That does not mean your investment is not "toast", just curious. What does that mean? Don't have a clue, but jumping to conclusions might be correct but they also maybe incorrect. This just broke on basically this weekend, correct??

This could easily be a really bad thing. But .... not going there. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Yep. We have "owned" since pre-construction. Received the letter LAST Wednesday by email...

Thanks for the reply, at least now people know that "previous" owners (meaning before the bank ownership) are getting letters. Think you are the first to confirm that. Thanks for posting.

While you may have owned since pre-construction, are you still using the original room or did you "upgrade" to a unit in a new building?

Not knowing. Is there a possible difference and what would that be?

Just courious? Maybe there is a difference based on a simple date, have no clue? That is why I am asking.

Upgraded and purchased additional weeks...

Thank you Sharon.

I am hoping that we hear more this week, and that the TS owners are able to get organized in the fight. My stake in this is small, to the extent that financially the loss of the $675 for AMF's for my week 49 that they now want me to pay again to use the unit is basically it. I consider myself ahead based on what I put into the place. I will not be paying another $675 to stay there week 49.

My major stake in this place is all those that I care about that have a lot more invested. Starting with all those that lost their jobs, the businesses associated that depend on this for income and then all of you have a bunch of money into the place and deserve better. With this in mind I am here to support all of those people.

I hope that even though there is a limited time to deal with this, I hope that people will show some patience for this next week so we as a group can acquire more information.

Cheers,
Todd

Doesn't that mean that you cancelled the pre-constuction contracts and replaced them with new?
Is not Alegria stating that the new contracts are void? Does that mean the original contract is still in place, even though the building may not be there?
I'm not a lawyer and certainly am not skilled in SXM law, but am not liking what is happening one bit.

I purchased pre-construction and received the letter via email today. Have not been offered any kind of settlement or buy back ever of my unit. This is all around pretty unfortunate. I really hope they step up and do good by their owners in hopes of keeping us coming back in the future. As of right now this just leaves a bad taste.......

BobDot....amended original contracts to new building

I have no idea whether there is any record of or registry of deeds. I do remember quite clearly having a long conversation with Ray when we were buying about this unit being deeded. I was very surprised because my parents have owned t/s in 2 countries(Mexico & SXM) and florida but each t/s is for a specific term. Their Royal Islander La Plage timeshare is for 55 years. The T/S in Cancun was only for 30 years and they are currently waiting for a buyout offer from the resort as they are also converting the units into hotel space. The first t/s in Mexico for this group of resorts paid the owners 60% of their original investment. My parents were there this past February and went to a meeting & were told that they would get at least 60% but could get up to 75%.

I believe Ray explained that the deed was for 99 years because Caravanserai did not own the land, only the building and the lease on the land to the building owners renews every 99 years. We didn't put much thought into it because we knew we would be long gone, however, we did like the fact that we could transfer ownership to our children and that it wasn't structured like RI LaPlage. We would have bought either way but it certainly made the decision easier. My parents are in their late 70's and still have about 25 years left on their t/s agreement at Royal Islander, so if this whole thing goes bust, I am very lucky to still have a place for 2 weeks a year to go to, however we are obviously very disappointed in how this whole thing has been handled from the very beginning.

Looking at my paperwork, Endless Vacation, N.V. is acting on behalf of Caravanserai. Endless Vacation is also the name associated with RCI on its website. RCI has US connections, right? If RCI was driving these sales and using their reputation to give legitimacy to the Caravanseri sales, can't they have liability as well as Caravanserai? Seems like they all worked together here. And the bank was allowing them to utilize space in the Caravanseria to do this work while the property was in auction.

Our original agreement reads:"...shall terminate after the last day in 2020." That is followed by some language that we would be granted 1/52nd ownership rights for each week we have leased the apartment.

If you read the RCI Disclosure Document it may be that RCI suspended its program at Caravanserai because of the foreclosure. Just a thought.

22. Withdrawal of Benefits Due To Condition or
Conduct of Resort.
RCI may withdraw any or all benefits from the Program.
[color:"red"]iii. the Resort or other Inventory provider is the
subject of a foreclosure suit, or the subject of a motion or
other proceeding to place it under the control of a
receiver, mortgagee in possession or bankruptcy trustee;[/color][/color]

But the same people acting as endless vacation last year selling timeshares were the same people there last month. And according to RcI as of today I am confirmed for 2 weeks at Caravanserai for next summer. I confirmed those last month after the auction. So RcI has still been acting as if they have a relationship with Caravanserai and they got my booking fees for confirming my unit. So if they knew of the problem and continued to allow bookings at caravanserai that is not ok.

What A Mess!!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

There is three units up for sale on Ebay if anybody is interested!

It is a mess, and has been a mess for a few years. I hope this week something positive breaks. It really could be a great resort.

Cheers,
Todd

I don't know if yesterday's editorial in The Daily Herald was posted but here it is:

Alegria

...and another one from today's Herald: Alegria #2

I like the last paragraph of the article. Hopefully the PTB pay attention.

"It's been said before: "The Friendly Island" must be very careful about the message it is sending to both existing and potential clients as a place where one can invest safely. After problems at several other resorts in recent years the destination can ill afford that these types of undesirable situations keep occurring."

How do you get into this group? Would love to be part of the discussion. Per the news article "A designated FaceBook community page was established the next day "to compare notes and help each other during the coming transition."

The Facebook page is called caravanseraitimeshareowners. All one word. I found it on Jeff Bergers Facebook page or just search Facebook with that long name.

I don't have an axe to grind in this issue and to no one in particular, I did want to make a couple of comments. First, I know absolutely nothing about standard timeshare agreements, but I would expect there to be a "successors and assigns" provision in the contract. If so, then Alegria would be bound by that provision to honor the pre-existing agreements. If not, then all bets are off.
Second, I believe it was Sharon who stated that Alegria way overpaid for the property. Given all the entanglements surrounding the operation of the resort and its continued sustainability, I would agree...UNLESS Alegria in its due diligence determined that their was no enforceable survivorship of rights and/or entered into some sort of "understanding" with the government.
Third, had Scotiabank failed to find a buyer, as badly and unprofitably as the resort had been operated by Kildare, it was destined to eventually fail altogether and be shut down permanently to the detriment of all parties involved. So the real question becomes whether or not the island is better served having a new owner to possibly realize the propert's potential, or have a white elephant to sit and decay.
Personally, with an investment of $14 million, I hope Alegria succeeds (even though I hate the name) and becomes one of the gems of the island, attracting old and new visitors alike. To the t/s "owners", I think you each individually have to decide at what point do you stop throwing good money after bad. There have always been to be more red flags with this property than a Soviet parade, so when do you just admit it was a bad investment and finally walk away?
I await your slings and arrows.

You all have the power to get this changed. BOYCOTT the new place, don't pay them another dime, blast them on Hotels.com, expedia, priceline, orbitz and especially Facebook..Better yet have your Facebook group contact these major online reservations services not to accept taking reservations to Alegria..

Bwahahaha!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" />

I get that it is easy to say the signs were there but every time someone stayed at Caravanserai they were corralled into meetings in which they were assured that the resort was going to be sold at auction and that timeshares would be honored by whoever bought the building as a condition of purchase. If the bank continued running the Caravanserai and soliciting upgrades and commitments or even giving general reassurances then there is a whole lot more at play here. If the timeshares were not permissible sales then the second the bank got the financials on foreclosure proceedings why didn't the bank post notice of the violation and direct it's representatives pending sale that timeshare reservations were not valid and should not be honored. Did they accept funds from Caravanserai that were secured through timeshare sales/reservations? As it was, it seems the bank or it's agent continued to allow the same people who sold the timeshares to keep offices at the resort and hold timeshare owners meetings etc. And they charged timeshare taxes and honored RcI reservations s well as in house timeshare bookings. This was occurring between the auction dates. It seems they were trying bring in as many timeshare dollars as possible before cutting people off at the knees.

The Lessor Guarantee transfer language reads:"The Lessee will not be disturbed in case of a transfer of the real property to a third party"
Would not use slings or arrows on people trying to help.

Count me in on any timeshare owner action to retrieve our investment and rights to Caravanserai. What a mess!

I agree that there are many culpable parties in this situation: Kildare and Manek, Scotiabank, RCI, and Endless Vacations. But those that purchased during the past couple of years must bear their share of the burden as well. They may have been corralled and high-pressured, but they were not held captive and had the option to say no thanks. Caveat emptor is more than just an expression, it is a business principle that requires one to protect oneself, preferably in writing. Generally most contracts also contain an "Entire Agreement" clause that states all the terms and conditions of the agreement are contained therein, and no other verbal promises or guarantees are part of or are enforcable under the contract.
I stop short of including Ray Sidhom on that list because I don't know what was involved in the negotiations and what assurances he was given. Depending on the result of any any litigation and/or social media smear campaigns as suggested, he may end up becoming another victim as well.
Like I said in my earlier post, to me everything hinges on how the original contract's somewhat loosely worded "successors and assigns" provision (as shown in BobDot's post) is interpreted by the courts.

I do not know if you had any investment in Caravanserai but I highly doubt it. You must be quite smug while you determine that people should just walk away from a huge investment without no recourse. If this happened in the U.S. or Canada, Alegria would be in motions court within a week and a restraining order would be placed on their operations. If you know so much about St. Maarten's laws, inform us all or keep your opinion to yourself about that "everyone should just walk away." I wish I could do business with you in North America. You would not last with that attitude <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Sorry but certain things in life are better to just walk away from versus throwing good money after bad.

The transactions were made in SXM and have nothing to do with US or Canadian law.

The poster was just trying to help and made a VERY valid point and post.

No need to attack the messenger. BTW, I believe "VitaMan" is an actual property owner (not a timeshare "owner") on the island and probably knows a thing or two about what they are saying.

Go to Caravanseraitimeshareowners ..one word... on Facebook

But sometimes walking away allows other people to be hurt in the same way because nobody stood up for what was right. Sometimes it's not about the money. Sometimes it is about doing what is right even if it cost you. Standing up against this might get some publicity and negativity directed towards whoever decided to hurt the timeshare owners, and maybe people in the future will not have this happen to them. To paraphrase Edmund Burke, the surest way for evil to survive is for good people to stand by and do nothing.

I feel that if everyone just "walks away" it will set a precedent for all other similar resorts to do the same...this is assuming that you actually liked the resort in the first place...I thought it had a great location and potential

That said I do not have a stake in this resort but I do at SBR...where there was a sale but no loss of "owners" vacation rights

I responded to their email letter and told them that I REFUSE this insulting offer and that a buyout of my unit for what I paid back in 2006 pre construction is what I want. Will see where that gets me.

Thanks, but I don't have a dog in this fight other than attempting to monitor and moderate what goes on here on TTOL.

Currently there is much more discussion going on here regarding the situation than on a facebook page that was started yesterday.

Good luck to those involved.

Agree! Very well stated.

Sorry, mecs, did not really intend to direct to you, but to everybody that has interest in this subjet. So am looking for a "spokes person" for lack of a better term?

If there is interest, we can set up a seperate forum to help, or at least communicate. Would the t/s owner be supportive of that??

Yes, it would be available to all (not that their are not other options, but lets go with that at this point in time). Just making an offer, that is all.

Let me know, or who ever might be interested, but it does have to be civil to some extent, is that acceptable?

Send me a PM or maybe better yet an email, use the contact us at the bottom of the page. There are options for this type of thing, so yes, can it be done, yes absolutely!

Let me know if you and the various owners are interested. Not saying you are in charge at all, just that the offer is there. Do not have any idea where it might go and I/we do not have a stake in the issue, just making resources available in this particular situation.

Ouch! You pierced me straight to the heart. I have actually done a lot of business over a lot of years (more than I care to admit) in North America and somehow managed to come out whole. I learned a lot of lessons along the way, and some of them I learned the hard way. I'm not an attorney and have no expertise in St. Maarten law, but I've had experience writing a lot of contracts over the years, so I do know a thing or two about legal constructs. I've even fought the good fight in court on occasion. I haven't "detemined" that anyone should just walk away, although many have already done so. I simply asked that you consider at what point do you finally decide to walk away from a bad investment.
So I'm just trying to pass on my insights from my own experience. I surely do understand the urge to fight this. But my point is at what cost? When is a win a win? To paraphrase a former President, it depends on what definition of 'win' is. After months or even years of struggle, you might win a battle only to discover that you and everyone else involved losses the war in the long run. One of the points of my post was that Kildare ran the resort into the ground to the point of threatening its continued existance. My question is how is beating up on Alegria, who has invested a lot of money into turning the situation around, going to make things any better.
The way I see it, they have made a first step proposal that is, I'm guessing, one they feel in their minds is a reasonable and good faith offer. So here's what I would suggest. Instead of starting a fight that no one can possibly win, why not select of delegation of Caravanserai t/s "owners" and meet with representatives of Alegria to 1) hear their side of the story, 2) air your grievances to them, and 3) see what common ground exists between you or can be negotiated. Compromise would certainly be more satisfactory than the risk of losing everything, and a whole lot less expensive at the same time.
Peace.

Thank you, again.

Messengers often get shot, I know I have BUT - I called "Caravhell" today and inquired about 3 weeks booked with RCI for late Oct & Nov. ($199 per week) - I was told "you better call the manager to see if they are still good". Tried to no avail. Called RCI, they promised to call me back today and so far NO RESPONSE. $600 rental fee for 3 weeks is a joke so I really do not have a dog in this fight, but I do have another TS so I feel your pain. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Sick.gif" alt="" />

I am not sure if it makes a difference or not...but the sale at SBR(Pelican) was a sale to keep the place a timeshare resort. It sounds like Alegria is NOT PLANNING to have any timeshares...that they just want a resort hotel. I have not noticed if any of the ''owners'' at Caravesnerai has checked their agreements to see how it was stated on their agreements. Sounds like the courts will be pretty busy in the next few months.

Playing devil's advocate....but i am assuming....and i hate using that word...that the contract you made or preconstruction back in 2006, was payable to the old ownership, and this new ownership did not receive one nickel of the price, and will probably not give a rat's [censored] about your complaint. They didn't see any money in their pockets...so probably the one to demand money back from would be Manek and company...and we all know what that will get you.

As others have stated...this new ownership overpaid for the property as is....and sure not going to payback owners monies that they never realized in the first place. Again...i am assuming that this would be the case...i may be wrong.

On a different note. If anyone remembers Tony Narducci one of the salesmen at Caravansari before all the [censored] hit the fan is very ill. He has pancreatic cancer and is in Colombia for treatment. He was up to recently working the activities desk at the Royal Islander.

He actually quit caravansary when the plan was unveiled to knock down the resort and resell it. He smelled funny fish!

I'm sure that those that remember him will wish him a speedy recovery and better heath.

That is so sad about Tony. The same disease that Ray had and both were Caravanserai salesmen. Tragic coincidence. I hope that he wins his battle.

Very good response, VitaMan.

Sometimes I can be a hothead and particularly so when someone's being taken advantage of (and even more so yet when that 'someone' is ME.....) as is so very much the case here with this whole mess, so I'm sure my first inclination is to want to fight it.

But then the realist in me takes over and I start thinking about how much the good fight might cost in the end, since like so many others here, I clearly remember all the ups and downs at the Pelican/Simpson Bay Resort, along with the other faces of Caravanserai and lastly, the years long saga of the Mullet Bay Resort fiasco before the settlement was finally reached in the unit owners favor, and yes, I do understand the situation there was different and we weren't talking timeshares but a lot of people spent thousands to fight the good fight, taking on all the different entities involved. And many of those owners ended up dropping out because of the very high cost of fighting the good fight when they realized how much the fight was costing them.

If you can afford the fight, Amen, go for it and take a stand for the principle but I'm betting it's going to cost a lot of money to straighten this mess out, and when all is said and done, the good guys could still lose in the end.

I truly hope that isn't the case but just remember, it could be. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Rci is still offering exchange and extra vacations at Caravanserai....Where as Sapphire is not available ....Looks like the beginning of the end ....This gov't needs a lesson or two on how best to run a country101 .

From my recollection, Caravanserai had major damage from Hurricane Lenny, just when it was about to reopen in 1999. And for the last 15 years I recall reading about all the great plans that never seemed to come to fruition. I sure hope the people that invested for all of these years can get something back. Never had a good feeling about the place after seeing what Lenny did to it. Good luck to all...
Happy Travels <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I am here this week and next at Caravansarai, having bought the two weeks back in June for $200 per week. Not sure about the end of the month or November, but my room was here as promised. I feel relatively sure that RCI will honor your previously purchased weeks even if they have to relocate you to another timeshare. Here's hoping I don't get kicked out after this week.

What are people doing that have reservations in the near future. We are coming down weeks 51 and 52 and have THREE units! There is a total of TWELVE people staying at the resort. Is it their intension on only using the "hotel" or will they be using the timeshare units to house people. All the tickets were bought at the highest prices ever. This is the busiest time of year and I'm sure options are minimal. Looks like there are no answers coming from the resort.

There have been a few articles/editorials in The Daily Herald discussing the Caravanserai/Alegria situation in the past couple of days.

Becky - Are any of the old staff members still there? Have you seen Ozzie at the front desk?

I hope you have a good holiday despite all the upheaval.

I see that RCI is still showing many units available for exchange. One unit with a check-in of Oct 18th and then lots beginning March 21st and running through June. From this I would GUESS that confirmed exchanges shouldn't be an issue, but if it were me I'd continue to try to get confirmation from RCI on that.

Looks like there was a meeting with Ted Richardson and the St. Maarten Timeshare Association. He agreed to invite both Scotiabank and Alegria to discuss how they can come to a resolution on this issue without involving the courts. No details on when that meeting will be held though.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/index.php?...s&Itemid=54

Also, the story at TodaySXM, said the following:

Alegria’s argument that Caravanserai was not allowed to sell timeshare without written permission from Scotia Bank will not hold up. An anonymous source told this newspaper last night that Scotia Bank was full well informed about the activities at the resort.

http://www.todaysxm.com/2014/10/07/timeshare-association-comes-to-the-rescue-at-caravanserai/

I would think getting confirmation from the resort would be more appropriate....

Thx for the info, plse keep us posted, will try RCI again tonight - not sure I want to wait till the last moment???

As I Caravanserai TS owner I find the actions of Alegria farcical. Do any of the TS owners have first hand knowledge that the emails were indeed sent by Alegria. I have not received one. It seems to me that if allowed to follow through on this plan the entire TS structure could be jeopardized. Not just on St Maarten, but in many other places as well. and RCI business model could also be very well damaged. We also should be careful about what is said on this and other public places as Alegria will be monitoring them for information on what people are thinking and planning. If they see a general weakness on the part of TS owners they will act accordingly.

What ever Alegria does won't affect any business model that RCI has. RCI isn't the best business model to begin with and has its own customer relation issues currently and in the past. I also don't think what happens to Alegria will have a big effect on the TS industry as a whole but instead on the unfortunate TS owners in that complex.

I hope that logic prevails in this situation as it does not look favorably on either Alegria or the Bank of Nova Scotia. I am sure the Minister of Tourism is looking at some type of resolution that will appease both the new owner and the TS owners such as myself. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Send this government a message .......Flood those in government with a continuous communication campaign until they implement the consumer protection policy required . <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/smashpc.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/smashpc.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/smashpc.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/smashpc.gif" alt="" />

And what required policy in St Maarten is that? None that I know of.

.....aman ...the policy that does not currently exist .One that would protect consumers while investing in a challenged country ...

This is far from being true. The truth is that if the new owner is allowed to turn a timeshare facility into a straight hotel facility, a HISTORIC PRECEDENT will be set not only on this island but possibly at any timeshare facility, exclusive of U.S. timeshare properties. The government needs to take a long, hard look at this mess. This totally unprofessional act of sending people emails may be a ploy by the new owner who controls Alegria Real Estate in that they know they can't simply null the sales. Remember that sales were taking place at the resort while a Scotia Bank agent was overseeing the property. That IS the truth.

In the end we keep our timeshares at a price 9 times the yearly maintenance fee of 2014. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" />

Wasn't dawn Beach a timeshare and went belly up after the storms? Did those owners have any recourse?

Dawn beach hotel paid their insurance premiums to their agent. The agent didn't forward the payments to the insurance co. So Dawn beach hotel didn't have insurance to rebuild.

SXM??? Wendell

I guess what I'm asking is have their been other timeshare resorts on the island that have closed their doors and if so how was it handled and what was the outcome. Idk why I though Dawn Beach was timeshare not a resort, but I knew the agent fled with the $$$$.

Totally agree...

...and the unplanned closing of a resort due to storm damage is a bit different than transferring ownership, dumping existing contracts and continuing operations

I should also mention that the only way SOME owners know about this event is through this forum. It is obvious that not everyone received the email. Those that did not and do not frequent this board are still clueless as to what is going on....

Thus my original post about how lame it was to send the notice via email vs. certified mail. They have no proof of ANYONE actually getting it.

Another thing I don't understand. If the leassee's fight the resort owner in court and win to get to stay there. Do the leasee's think think they will be staying at a place with open arms? Will the owner go out of their way to make the place comfortable and have full services for the leasee's? I really thing the leasee's will be staying in a hostile environment.

SXM??? Wendell

I would be a bit hostile....probably would have made more sense to play the savior card and then just double the AMF's for whatever reason. That might have gotten rid of quite a few players....making THEIR choice and not a forced hand...and it STILL may come to that

The new owner probably wants to get a head count of who takes the offer by year end ( thus the Nov 1 deadline). instead of waiting for a couple of years. And beginning the first of the year start the hotel promotion.

Really the hotel offer isn't too bad. Some will pay $575 for a week stay in a newer resort.

SXM??? Wendell

How is it going to run as a hotel? Aren't all the units either studios, 1/2 Bedrooms? I guess when I hear hotel; I think a room with a bed and bath (and possibly a mini fridge). If someone bought a 2 BR unit there's no way they could get 6-8 people in a hotel room.

You are right RoryS! We have 2 weeks in a sleep 8 Penthouse unit during low season when the kids are off school since we have 4 kids and needed to sleep all 6 of us comfortably. We only bought the timeshare unit at Caravanserai because it was complex every year to try to find a centrally located place that could accomodate our whole family comfortably for 2 weeks. Getting a "hotel unit" for the price of our maintenance fee would not even make sense. Maybe a lot of people have only 2 people and would be able to make it work, but it is worthless to us to pay our maintenance fee and not have a place to put everyone!

There are some owners who did not have an email address on file with Caravanserai. I would assume they will receive letters by mail? All notices should have been sent by registered mail and not by email since Alegria's letter could have ended up in junk or spam and never reached the intended timeshare owner. Alegria has no guarantee that any particular owner actually received their letter. Something else to consider.

You have to wonder how many people might find out simply because at some point they go to RCI to book a vacation and they have a zero point balance! RCI is going to be fielding a lot of po'd calls before people realized what Caravanserai/Alegria did!

Lena checked our RCI point balance and you are correct we have a 0 balance!!

Count us in on ANY class action suit. And I urge everyone to broadcast a call for a BOYCOTT of St.Maarten - St.Martin
until they do something to protect TS owners rights.

As an owner who bought while the first floor of the T/S bldg was going up and who has used our penthouse unit 3 times starting in 2010 we have been on a roller coaster ride from day 1. to some of the people who have posted I can truly tell the non owners versus owners.We as many owners recognize the great potential for Caravanserai and have had some wonderful times there. We do miss Ray:( He always tried to help us and give us good info.I know many people posting don't fully understand what is in our hearts but to the people who are siding with Allegria I think they need to walk a mile in the owners shoes. I also think that is shameful that the St.Martin government has not made an effort to better communicate any efforts to solve this dilemma which they obviously have been aware of. As far as the bank goes ...They are a bank and they could give a rat's [censored] about anything but their money which is to be expected of the bank. I do beleive that it would be in the interest of bothe the government , and Allegria , and The Time Share Assoc. to solve this in favor of the owners for 2 reasons 1.) If they don't this will seriously weaken the timeshare business in general but specifically in St.Martin and 2.) We as other owners also own other weeks in St.Martin and you can bet your bottom dollar that we will spend every waking hour on that island making all parties involved lives MISERABLE!!!

Another thing to consider. What if some TS owners took a mortgage to buy? Didn't the lender require a guarantee (lien) against the property? Did the sale of the TS Resort to Allegria account for that? The borrower doesn't own anything, the lender does until the mortgage is paid off. Lots of unknowns at this point.

I just received a SECOND email from Alegria with the same awful letter attached. That's 2 emails in five days.

Do you own 2 weeks and have separate contracts? Am thinking they are working their way through contract by contract.

Somebody earlier posted that there were about 2,000 timeshare weeks sold. If each one involved an eamail response or a phone call, that would make for a very busy month.

"Thus my original post about how lame it was to send the notice via email vs. certified mail. They have no proof of ANYONE actually getting it."
When an email fails a notice is sent to the sender that it failed to deliver to that address.

And the emails heading come from Algeria not Caravanserai and reference timeshare. I would assume it was spam if I had gotten it. Most people who own at Caravanserai would not even know who or what alegria is. Unless you follow a social media site that talked about the sale and new name then why would you open the email? For all I know I got the email and deleted it as spam.

In theory, you are correct, in practice, not so much. I am involved in a business systems analysis project at work right now and one of the major elements is email deliverability rates. There is a significant gap between reported non-deliverables and actual. If you are counting on reported non-deliverables and following up only with those, you are going to miss a ton of people because there are a lot of ways that email is reported as non-delievered but is never seen by the target.

We have difficulty with purchase receipts that, because of the status of my employer, are held in company records, so must get through. This seems like a notification of similar importance. Our experience is that relying solely on email for critical documentation, especially that with financial implications, is folly.

As far as I know, there is no legal obligation for anyone to have an email address, much less active.
So in the event that an email sent by Allegria is returned undeliverable, the burden of communication and proof of it remains on Allegria's side.
Sending registered mail is the only way Allegria will be able to prove to a Court that they did contact the owners.
Regardless of the above, it blows my mind that Allegria decided to communicate such an important information to the Owners via email and not by registered mail.

What I really want to know is ,the hotel room they offer... Is it for the same week that I bought??I own week 9 and go there every year and it's a 2 bedroom end unit on the 2nd floor.If this whole thing is true,it's not a good thing,but if they guarantee the same unit every year... I could probably live with that.

Did anybody read the last page of their letter? If they are so sure of their position why are they asking for a total release of all your rights? They are trying to see how many people can be coned into sighing their rights away

Bob and Dot,



I copied those stats from the info listed online when the first auction took place. Back in summer, 2013 yes: 2,056 weeks had been sold but a number of owners own two or three weeks so 2,000 owners maybe, plus or minus. We don't know how many units were purchased in the last year so this gives us a rough estimate on the number of owners, not necessarily the number of weeks owned.

I, as an owner WILL NOT SIGN that letter!!!

Is your reservation still good at RI??

I got my letter yesterday, I have no plans on signing it.
T

Yes, that was the points balance for 2015.

Good for you - RCI told me my reservation was no longer valid as of today - see you guys soon.

I would recommend against signing that letter at this point in time also. As I think about this, it seems to me the emails (as opposed to registered letters) were just a means to get the topic on the table, They probably expected blow back from angry t/s owners and, as I wrote in a previous post, the "hotel" offer was just meant as a starting point for discussions.
So I would also recommend waiting to see the outcome of the meeting proposed by Ted Richardson and the SMTA with Scotiabank and Alegria as well. I would be very surprised if they would reject taking such a meeting.
But I do think everyone needs to be realistic about their expectations. I can't imagine that Alegria bought the resort without first doing a feasibility study and profit and loss assessment, and based on that developed a strategy to fix it. As we all know, the business model under Kildare/Caravanserai was unsustainable, so some operational adjustments (increased AMF's being a possibility?) must be implemented to right the ship. If you want the place to become everything you hope it can be, and I know you all do, then I think you'll all be better off in the long run participating with the new owners rather than fighting them. Manek is responsible for creating this mess and I don't think Alegria should be cast as the bad guys here for trying to find a remedy for the situation.

"As we all know, the business model under Kildare/Caravanserai was unsustainable"

No it was not sustainable the way he did it, if Royal Islander was run that way it would not be sustainable either. Where did the money go? How many stories have you heard about what he promised vs what he delivered. It is my belief that at the amount that was paid for this place, it will be a cash cow for the new owner. It took somebody with some deep pockets to do it, and some risk and hassle but he will do well off of the place.

I also add, do you think that Scotia Bank told the new owner what he wanted to hear or what they thought the truth was?

Cheers,
T

I agree with VitaMan in the aspect of Alegria using the letters to test the water of owner reaction, however there are many opportunities to turn a profit without putting the burden on the backs of the owners. Obviously we would like to see some improvements in furnishings , elevators that work, a well maintained pool, and a water supply that both runs and provides ample hot water, but for certain the other 2 uncompleted buildings could be converted to a hotel or T/S and also there is the last building of the old resort that can be demo'd and rebuilt and sold as well, not to mention the income from the commercial rentals on the property, as well as the additional T/S weeks available to sell. This place has the potential to be a gold mine!

Did RCI refund any money or points you may have spent when you made the reservations? Did you have the RCI reservation insurance?

I have no skin in this game but I was just wondering. Jeff Berger said on 10/4 that he needed information and seemed to have some irons in the fire. Has anyone heard anymore from him?

The notice in the papers describing the actions being taken by the Minister of Tourism with help from the Time Share Association gave credit to Jeff for alerting them of the problem.

I am new to this forum and have received a letter on 10/3, found this last night. I will not be signing the form received.
I bought my TS in 2006 I believe, was given a room #, week, etc. (I need to pull my contract), and have not had the ability to use it, given one excuse after another, the property was not ready, and then no response over the last few years to my phone calls. Only to get a phone call about 3 months ago, asking me to send in my maintenance fee, ASAP. I found this strange, so I called back to the number I received and the person that answered, stated she didn't know who called me. I asked if I could start booking my room and was told, I would get a call back. Still waiting. Now, I receive this letter and it's all making sense. They wanted my money so they could pocket it.

I am in for the fight, I paid for my time share, pre-construction as well in full.

Just to update everyone on what I have found out to date. I am currently on hold with RCI waiting for a second supervisor after speaking with one rep and one supervisor.I have explained that I was told this A.M. by someone in authority at Caravanserai that in order to use our confirmed penthouse reservation we were going to have to sign the agreement as well as send them another payment of maint fees. What a shady operation! I will post again as soon as I get off the phone with RCI.

Please let us know the outcome. When is your reservation for?

It Is for week 50. One saving grace in this whole thing for us is we also owned week 43 at Divi and wanted to put our 2 St.maarten weeks together so last year we were negotiating with Divi to move and upgrade to week 49 as well as Caravanserai for week 49. The clowns at Caravanserai wanted us to give them our Divi and pay a difference for the week at Caravanserai. At the time or sixth sense told us to go with Divi even though we love our penthouse. Thank God we went with Divi because we could have lost everything!

Lena checked again today and we still have both weeks reserved. We did trade into RI Terrasse for the first week and RI LaPlage for the second week. Maybe because we are not staying at Caravanserai the reservations are still being honored?

I suspect you are OK however I would definitely follow the posts and updates as well as getting on Jeff Berger's everything SXM and search caravanserai for his latest news

I just rec'd my refund of $199 x 3 from RCI on my CC. Will now be at Royal Palm - this entire mess is a shame for those who were caught by surprise. Happy you two seem alright for now - see you soon.

Just an update on our situation , I received a call about an hour ago from Maria.....I almost passed out because I sure didn't expect a call back from last week. I explained to her that I was not angry with her and Minerva as they are only doing what they are told. I told her I was not going to pay fees again for something we already paid for and that paper Alegria wanted us to sign was way to ambiguous for me or any one with good sense to sign. I am moderately hopeful that based off the radio interview on the 9th of the member of the timeshare association that when meetings begin this week between all parties concerned that maybe some satisfactory path forward might be found. Maria stated that Alegria had only the best intentions but nobody in their right mind would believe that based off of their opening move. It smacks more of greed than reconciliation.

[color:"pink"][/color]I am realllllllllly MAD !! Mr. Maneck screwed every single one of us by running away with OUR MONEY !! This just proves that he's a ROYAL SUCCCKER !! We bought and paid in full a full ownership and got sweet f*ck all. Our lawyers said that there is no way we will get our money back !! Well MR.MANECK has not finished hearing his name loitered on the net and we will do everything in our power to prevent people to even go back to the ALEGRIA HOTEL it's all a scam I'm sure that bartered knew what he was doing by screwing all of us one at a time !! [color:"pink"][b][/b][/color]

I'm surprised that Marty hasn't chimed in. He said he would when things got settled. Also, is his Dream Bar in operation?

His Dream Bar?

Marty DID post on his Facebook site a few hours ago. It reads as follows:


Alegria hotel resort ( former Caravanserai )
As requested by Many timeshare owners , my 2 cents.

I had a meeting with the new owner, Mr. Sidhom and he explained me exactly what’s going on. So here it goes with full knowledge of Mr. Sidhom, me writing this.
We are no longer a timeshare resort. The new owner bought the land, long term lease, through a public auction set up by scotia bank. Mr. Sidhom bought the land legally. The land deed was sold by foreclosure by Scotia Bank. Mr. Sidhom took full ownership on Septemer 15th 2014. Mr. Sidhom did NOT buy or was obliged to buy endless vacation N.V. or Kildare N. V. what your timeshare contracts were under. The former owner, Mr. Manek, managing director of those 2 companies made a mess of it, therefor the bank took it back. The bank did again NOT sell the cooperations ( N.V. s) but only the land deed . Mr Sidhom has NO obligation honoring any contracts made between timeshare owners and kildare N.V. or Endless Vacation N.V. He is not at fault here. He bought the land so he can make this the best HOTEL resort in the Caribbean. NEVER AGAIN a timeshare or vacation club or which ever. 100 % hotel! If he would have bought it directly from Mr. Manek then we have the dutch saying> Koop breekt geen huur. Buying does not break leases. He however bought it through foreclosure auction which is why he does NOT have to take over any companies previous associated with the resort. So after consulting with also my lawyer, any action law suits you are planning against Mr. Sidhom , Alegria N.V. or Alegria B.V will stand little ground and will cost you legal fees. The one to go after would be Endless Vacation or Kildare and go even further straight to Mr. Manek . I know how bad this is for the timeshare owners. But again Mr. Sidhom did nothing wrong and is being made look like the bad guy on behalf of Mr. Manek. Mr. Sidhom feels extremely bad about the situation also, but he also has to protect his investment. What he is doing now is ( what he does NOT have to do, but does so people can still come on vacation as planned if they want to) is charging you for whatever the amount was you were paying anyway for maintenance for ur old timeshare unit. THAT unit will be your unit you stay in . That’s why in your letter it stated a Hotel room, since we are 100 % hotel. This is on an annual base until he also cancels that, which he can do as of today if he wants to, because he can make a lot more income by renting the hotel room, then timeshare owners pay for a week maintenance. To recoup your investement and hard earned money like I wrote earlier , go after the right person which is anything that has to do with Mr. Manek or Scotia Bank. I’m caught in the middle of this [censored] also. I did however make a business deal with Mr. Sidhom, and The Dream pool bar is what it was. I believe 100 % in Mr. Sidhom ‘s intentions. He’s an Honorable business man and I’m 100 % on his team. I’m glad Mr. Manek is out. Mr. Sidhom is flying in ,on a weekly base, work crews from the states. Breaking out of mildew smelling units start next week, to rebuild them. His intentions are great! If he would NOT have purchased through foreclosure and no one would have bought, this would all have gone down the shits anyway if Mr. Manek would have stayed around. You fed him millions in maintenance and timeshare money, and all is gone! So go after the right folks! That’s just my 2 cents, but do what you gotta do. So wanna stay? Then pay ur regular maintenance for your unit. Your contact is Maria @ Alegria hotel. That’s where your questions should be directed to and not me. I however will do my best to keep you informed and tell you about FACTS!! Not hearsay. You might not like what I wrote, but at least I hope I cleared some questions up. Always here for yah, Marty @ The Dream

All makes sense to me.

Well, just wait until this happens to other timeshare resorts. And, it will in time. By setting this precedent, no timeshare owner is SAFE anywhere on the island - deeded, or not deeded. There goes that HAPPY ISLAND FEELING <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" />

Hi Marty

Last week I asked for a reservation quote for a week in March. I was quoted from the Caravanseri Beach . com address. $368.75 + 20% "tax" per night . So if the former leasee's get a week for their old MF it is a bargain. Not sure if this quote is from the new Alegria or not.

SXM??? Wendell

Wendell, I think if you wait a little longer that the price for a reservation for Heineken week will be a lot lower..

Your statement is not true as far as no timeshare is safe. Mine is, it is on the dutch side and is owned by a company in Pa. with the MF going to a company in Arizona. It is just about the best timeshare resort on the island. OBBR

At that price I am not in a hurry.

SXM??? Wendell

Not sure what your definition of "safe" is but you have to remember the property is located in another country. And it is subject to the laws and ways of that country.

SXM??? WEndell

Thanks Marty. Glad to hear that you were able to negotiate a new contract. We'll see you in December from another resort that we owned and was bought out at an auction.

You know Marty. From my perspective I think that you are doing a disservice to many by saying that the new owner is an honorable man. I am not convinced. He doesn't care about what he is doing to all of us owners. On the contrary he is holding a gun to our heads and telling those of us who already paid our MFs that if we want our rooms we must pay him money again and sign away any rights that we have. Get a grip on reality Marty , He knows that many of us are between a rock and a hard place because we already have air booked. This is extortion , not honorable! He is just taking advantage of the situation to generate quick revenue! For God's Sake please don't feed us anymore BS If this new owner thinks we will take this lying down he is seriously mistaken! We do have options!

So what are your options. Go to court in a foreign country,spend a ton of money, loose because it a cut and dry sale on a foreclosure and have nothing to show for it while its in the courts for years. Sign the paper and salvage what you can.

You are so right about another country's laws,but I will still have rights that will allow me to deal with a company in my country and a much better chance of communication with a company here than with a company in SXM(which I love), where they still don't believe that the island would be nothing without timeshares owners.

This is in response to Marty who is looking out only for himself and his welfare by blowing smoke up the new owner's "you know what". Dream Bar? Only if you are satisfied with weak and small drinks!

Please don't trash Marty. He and I have different opinions on the situation but he is still my friend and has always been kind to me and my family. And given that he quite often sets the bottle of booze next to my drink so I can replenish, weak drinks are NOT one of my gripes in this whole fiasco!

I really have no problem with anyone stating their opinion on something as Marty did. As Marty himself goes, I can not comment because I have never met him and have never been at the Dream Bar so, I will not talk about someone I have never met.

If I read Marty's post correctly he is saying that the new owner is not going the timeshare route from now on, but the people that bought when it was a timeshare can still use their unit under the old terms if they agree to pay mx fees as they did before and acknowledge this by Nov. 1 2014. The confusion could be because of the wording that the new owners used when they said that the place was no longer a timeshare but a hotel and everyone jumped to the conclusion that their old contract would not be honored in any way. Perhaps it would be best to contact the new owner giving him your interpretation of the letter and see if agrees and if not ask for a clarification. Good luck.

As I stated before...way early in this mess.....The Caraversarai went bankcrupt...period. The business kaput. New owner steps in, and can do with it as he deems fit.

Timeshare is a risk...and I own three weeks at another resort...but no one can guarantee the future...and the handwriting on this resort has been so plainly in ones sights for years now. The lies and deceit has been ongoing from day one... starting with the promise of a completion date years off the mark.
Just like any other business, building, etc...if one does not pay the bank....the bank can foreclose. Not too much different than a regular homeowner that does not pay his mortgage...the bank eventually comes in, and takes the property, and even though this particular person had a deed on the property, it is lost to him, and the bank sells it to someone else. This is basically what happened at this resort...Manek took all the money, did not pay off his debt...he lost the building, and now the bank sold it to someone else. Manek took off with money, and this new owner bought the land and the buildings...but the companies that actually owned the timeshares went bankcrupt....thus...the new owner never made a dime off of the sales...and is willing to give one use of a hotel for the maintenance fee that was agreed upon. I agree if a case is to be made..it should be against Manek and his companies....but futile going after the new owner who had nothing to do with the original agreeements.

The new owner has offered, for the price of the old MF's, a weeks stay at the new hotel Alegria.

SXM??? Wendell

We former owners may have lost a week or two thanks to Manek's failures but, without a new contract, Marty and his help lost their livelihood. What more do you expect of him but to say he's sorry for us?
By the way, I've never had a weak Presidente.

Marty hasn't lost his liveliehood..read his note...he has a new contract with the new owner.
I wish him well....

IF..the new owner allows the old timeshare owners to continue using their weeks for only the maintenance fees...I myself can't think of what the difference would be to them, with the only exception being that RCI and ''trading to other places'' would be off the books. BUT, with a guarantee of the use of one's own unit, I think the new owner is being decent...since the Maint fees would probably be a lot less than a week's stay at the new resort.

That is true, BUT!! for the near future anyway, unless they really discount the hotel rooms, no way they would fill the resort anyway. So, they get some income regardless.

One of the differences, Ed, is that they can no longer sell their week because they don't own their week anymore. And if the week is deeded, they cannot pass it on to another person. We're talking about owners who have paid $10K at the low end to amounts much higher for penthouse suites and multiple weeks. The letter doesn't say how long the MF payments will be in effect, in return to stay in your unit. The letter is extremely vague and Ray Sidhom could easily decide to withdrawn his offer whenever he wants. So states the letter.

True. Alegria is under no obligation to extend this offer forever. Like Carol pointed out, it's an offer which will generate some short term revenue to Alegria, until the Hotel business picks up.
The new owner bought the property with a different business model in mind, and he's just trying to minimize his risk at the beginning.

San....i feel your pain. As i said, i am a timeshare owner myself. BUT, now at Caravanserai, there is nothing. It is bankrupt, and unfortunately, the timeshare owners are out of their investments. As I mentioned, the lawsuit if there is one, should be levied against Manek and Company....the new owner bought the property as a building only, and does have the right to do with it as he pleases..since the previous ownership went bust. It is never fun to lose money, but this was a disaster waiting to happen from it's inception. The timeshare owners lost their investment when the bankcrupty was declared. Now the new owner unfortunately have no ties to the old company, and can do with it as they deem fit. Sorry, just stating fact. Would it make a difference if the place was abandoned, boarded up, and later razed to the ground??? The timeshare owners would've lost their rights then too. Now, even though it stings, the new owner is offering to ''rent'' the units for the price of maintenance fees only. This will probably be a big discount.....and i am sure he feels that a few bucks is better than none...but it is little consolation for the people that gave away their hard earned money to a ''schemer'' who never followed up on any of the promises he made at the beginning. Will the new resort become successful is anyone's guess...but it sure leaves a blackeye on the industry. Most of the time, timeshare ownership works out..in this very remote case it did not.

Has anyone heard anything on any meetings this week between the travel minister and principals of Alegria? I have been following and seen nothing since the 7th

The meeting will be on Oct. 28.

Thank you

See the letter from the SMTA which Eric posted below in another thread.

https://www.facebook.com/Caravanseraitimeshare
above link provides a copy of last nights press release from the Tuesday meeting. Listen to Island92 for Dr. Soc's comments. They are helpful.

I can see the article.

SXM??? Wendell

The press release was posted twice here already.

ANYTHING NEW?????

They painted the outside of the building that they are going to tear down in a couple of years.
Place was empty early last week. One person at the pool mid-afternoon.

Are they doing anything inside??I'm going to be there week 9

Don't know as we only went to the pool bar.

Arriving December 27 for three weeks. Will post observations on return. Wish us luck...

Good luck...Keep us posted!!

I'll be there Week 1 - someone told me this meant "Joy" are you feeling it?

Good Luck - please take a moment from your wonderful vacation for an update. Especially the elevator, one of our Goddesses has a sore leg. . .