Charter Vessels "Registered" to Fish?

A charterer of mine just requested a fishing license via a popular rental shop in Tortola and was told that "they are no longer allowed to have fishing licenses processed unless the boat that you will be sailing on is registered to fish in the BVI waters." I checked with my Charter Mgmt Company and apparently this is true. Has anybody researched what is required to register a charter vessel for fishing? Thank you! - Mark

You have got to be kidding me!
G

never heard of that one, usually an email and a credit card, get it the next day

No joke ... I'll keep you all posted as to what we find out. Thanks - Mark

I would be interested to find out too. We are bare-boating in July and one guy on the trip (his first) would like to be able to fish. It was our understanding that all he would need was a fishing license.

Are you sure they just didn't want the name of the boat to put on the license, which is typical.

From everything that I see online, TRADEWINDS is correct -- they only need the name of the boat you are on.

And you really don't have to have that since for companies such as Moorings/Sunsail they won't tell you. I think for my last application I just put in "Sunsail Charter". They processed no problem. I also put the same info in registration.

If anyone has any contacts with the folks running the islands or in the odd chance someone from the BVI leadership is listening. Why not slightly raise the charter or cruising permit cost and include "recreational fishing" say less than 3-5 fish in possession per boat to the charter/cruising permit. The folks processing the fishing paperwork could be redirected to making sure all the boats and visitors have the proper single document paperwork needed for visiting yachtsman. Flame me all you want. But, single simpler paperwork that raises the same or reasonably justifiable revenue from visitors is better all around. Make it clear and simple either you paid your tax to be on holiday visiting or you did not. Either recreational fishing is welcome or it is not.

The best thing to do is to "not get a license". If the authorities pull up to your boat, hand the fishing rod off to someone else on the boat. Then, go down below. That's important: remember to go down below. If you have to come back up again, then act like you don't know anything about it. Then, ask if they'll let you keep the rod/reel as they haul off the law breakers.

How about you don't raise the cruising permit cost since not everyone cares about fishing and everyone complains when costs go up. If you want to fish, knock yourself out and pay for your own license. Don't try to spread your cost out to the rest of us.

I know that is a joke and we have fished many times without any documentation. We stopped all that cold when they took the guy's boat. Even if it is "just a rental". Having the boat confiscated will be a nightmare for you and a long list of other people.

"ST. THOMAS - A U.S. diplomat traveled to the British Virgin Islands this week, asking top leaders to consider granting clemency to a U.S. Virgin Islands sport fisherman imprisoned for fishing without a license in BVI waters.

Clyde Howard Jr., U.S. Consul General at the U.S. Embassy in Barbados, met with BVI Gov. David Pearey and Premier Ralph O'Neal on Tuesday and Wednesday to discuss the case of St. Thomas resident Richard Baker."



Baker, 54, has served six weeks of his 12-month sentence in Tortola's Balsam Gut prison. The sentence was handed down after he was unable to pay the $46,000 combined fine he received for unlicensed fishing and illegal entry.

Baker and his common-law wife, Deborah Barton, had been relaxing on their boat Sept. 24 with two fishing lines and artificial lures trailing behind them when enforcement officers boarded the vessel. The couple said they had not caught any fish and did not know they were in BVI waters.

The maximum fines for fishing without a license are more than 100 times greater in the BVI than an the USVI - $500,000, compared with $400.

At least two other USVI fishermen, Adin Kauffman and Ishmael Hodge, also have received fines of at least $30,000 this year for fishing in BVI waters without a license.

And in 2002 and 2003, a series of U.S.-registered boats found fishing in BVI waters were seized, causing public outcry and leading to lost business for the charter boat operations involved.

Howard called the BVI law, which doesn't distinguish between penalties for commercial and sport fishermen, "flawed.""

I agree that not everyone wants to fish, so they should not raise the fee for everyone. But it would be nice if the fishing license could be available right at the charter company. We could pay the charter company and they would pay it to the government. The charter company is already collecting fees for the government, why not the fishing license too.

I can't recall any BVI government ever streamlining anything, particularly if it might require fewer civil servants.

Think about it: they have two people sitting in that airport departure tax booth from early morning until the last plane leaves. And that when they have other taxes embedded in the ticket price that could easily be increased. I bet they could add $15 to each ticket and come out ahead!

This government has never looked for any efficiency anywhere. Why should fishing licenses be any different? Sure, you can get one at any bait shop in the US. It makes sense: make it easy and you will sell more. Just not going to happen here in the BVI.

TMM recently decided to register all of the vessels in their fleet after pollling the owners on their interest to do this, the fishing vessel registration fee will be paid by the owners of the yachts. If you are considering fishing during your charter you might ask your broker or charter company about the status of the registration or simply charter a vessel from TMM!

Cheers,

Tony

Just received my recreational, temporary fishing license on line today.
The application asked for the name of the yacht and personal identification. No mention of the vessel needing to be licensed. The Individual license to fish for 30 days was 45.00.
Tight Lines! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Looks like I just made a donation to the BVI coffers...I'm not surprised, I've seen the BVI enforce some rules and then later relax on the enforcement. Remember the C&I Fees last summer when arriving or departing in a private vessel....

Tony

Contact Conservation & Fisheries Dept., 284-468-2700. I uploaded application, identification and cc authorization to the dept. I received the license within 24 hours.

Thanks!!! I'll call them tomorrow

I think I figured out the what has happened in this thread. The BVi has had a boat fishing license for a long time. If the boat is licensed then individuals onboard do not require a license. If the boat is not licensed then anyone fishing requires a license. They are two different things. I attempted about 5 years ago to license a charter boat. At that time the fee was very high because it was a US documented vessel even though home ported in the BVI and taxed there. The fee for a BVI vessel was much more reasonable.
George

What is the latest on getting a BVI license?
Is there an email address for this?

I just called Conservations and Fisheries. They explained that the vessel must be licensed for fishing and the people fishing from it must also be licensed to fish. This would be two separate licenses. I was told this is not new legislation but newly enforced legislation. The effective date for enforcement is April 1.

Mardi Gras - do you know what this vessel license costs?

That if true effectively ends all fishing for BVI charter boats. Can you tell us who you spoke with or their number.
G

George ... This is why, as previously mentioned, TMM is registering their entire fleet. I suspect other Charter Companies will have to follow suit or not be able to offer fishing as an activity aboard their vessels. Thanks - Mark

At 1500 per boat per year I suspect most companies will not license the boats.
G

I'm getting second hand from a reliable source that the cost for a USVI charter boat license is $250/year to fish in the BVI. That probably knocks us out if we have to foot that whole bill, as well as $45 a person.

250 is what I thought I would pay however when I showed up to purchase the boat license they wanted 1500 since my boat was a US documented vessel. We will see how they handle it going forward.
G

When their fishing revenue goes way down I bet they re-think this 'strategy.'

I have a bit more info. The new fishing tax on boats is not a old rule. It is a new tax and will be in effect on 1 Apr. So far the entire process to even get the permits is murky and being worked on. More info should follow soon. Looks like the tax will be 200 dollars per boat for BVI based charter boats regardless of where the boat is flagged.
G

I called the phone number posted earlier , 284-468-2700. They answered on a speakerphone, I spoke with a man and a woman. Sorry, I didn't get their names but they appeard to know their business. The fee we paid is described as:

Pleasure fishing license for locally based vessels:

Length of vessel:

25 to 45 ft: $10 application fee and $105 annual license fee

> 45 ft $10 application fee and $155 annual license fee

As stated previously these fees are being paid by the owners of the vessels in TMM's fleet because most of the owners agreed it would benefit the charter clients who would like to fish. An individual will still need to purchase the recreational fishing license for $45 good for 30 days.

Tony

If I have my recreational fishing license, on a charter boat without the pleasure fishing licence, who will pay the fines ? Me ? The charter co. ? The boat owner ? It's ridiculous !

I received this email this morning from the Moorings. After reading here about the BVI fishing boat registration I wanted to ask the question for my trip in May. Here is the answer I got from them:

Thank you for your inquiry. The BVI has just recently passed a law that requires all charter vessels to be registered as “fishing vessels” in order for a fishing license to be obtained. This law goes in to effect beginning on April 1st. As of right now, since the BVI has just passed this without warning, we do not have the ability to provide a registration for fishing for our charters. We are working diligently with the tourism board and our base to be able to make this happen, but unfortunately, at this time we have no solution. I will add your contact information to a list of people wishing to obtain a fishing license, and as soon as we receive a solution, you will be among the first to be notified. It only takes about 14 days to obtain a license from the government, so it is our hope that we will have this situation rectified before that time window closes.

Someone please chime in here: A license is only required if fishing aboard a vessel, correct? If I fish from shore, or wade, no license is required?

As far as I know that is correct.

Got to wonder if this is a simple grab at more revenue for the state? Or some other scheme to drive a guided fishing business?

They are $50 million over budget on the hospital, $40 million over on the cruise pier, want to spend $250 million on the airport and running out of cash for roads and sewerage. What do you think?

Any idea on what the total taxes and fees are per charter boat per year or per person per charter boat per day? We are experiencing higher travel taxes and fees all over the US. Most lodging taxes are 3% to 13% and growing, many airport rental cars are taxed close to 30%, all of the traveler taxes and fees in US cities are creeping up to $20 per day per person or more. According to Forbes when you factor in the airlines a US trip cost can be 30% in government taxes and fees. What would the BVI numbers add up too?

Very rough estimate would be around $16/day/person. That is based on 7% tax, an average charter price of $4,500/week, 30 weeks and the latest caricom boat count (2013) would be a bit over $10.5 million a year. That is on top of the $2/day/person cruising tax (about $2.8 Mil)and the $20 departure tax (about $3 mil for charter guest only) .

Glenn do you how the tax would be calculated for owner's time? Both when the owner uses her own time and when she sells her unused time (at a discount)?

karen

Right now the room tax on boats is just speculation. No telling what it would look like if it actually passes.

Yesterday I filled out the forms and sent them to [email]cfd@gov.vg.[/email] Received a license from them today.

On the application it ask the name of the vessel, I just wrote "Unknown", filled in the charter company name and type of boat. No questions asked.

I contacted BVI Water Toys about renting fishing gear and getting a personal fishing license. I asked about the boat license and here is their reply:

The due date for the change over was end March. I contacted Conservation and Fisheries last week and it was still up in the in the air what the procedure would be or when exactly this will be implemented.

So we are going ahead as normal.
You can reserve the gear and request a permit. If and when it changes I will be sure to let everyone know.

You can however contact BVI Conservation and Fisheries directly at 1 284 468 3701.

I have never seen the fishing police.

This guy probably wishes that he never seen a fishing police
http://www.soundingsonline.com/component/content/article/216962

OK what is the story? We are going down the middle of May on a Moorings charter. Will I be able to lawfully fish if I get the $45.00 personal fishing license? The only fishing I do is a little in the morning and a little in the evening while drinking a beer and tied to a mooring. I'm very confused.

I would send an e-mail to cfd@gov.vg and ask them for the forms. Fill them out and e-mail back to them with a copy of your photo ID. They issued me a fishing license within 24 hours. They never asked me if the boat was a registered fishing boat, in fact for boat name I wrote "unknown" and filled in the charter company and the type of boat we are chartering. They never asked any questions.

If you want to send me your e-mail I can forward the forms to you.

Cost is $45, and it was very easy to do.

Colleen, you might say the law is a bit Draconian.

I would call or email the Moorings base manager on Tortola to see what The Moorings policy will be for fishing on their boats.

Agreed, that is why I would never take the chance of fishing without a license.

Much more to this story than the Soundings article. The guy treated BVI authorities, from the Marine Police, to the Judge and prosecutor, to the Prison Officials, with contempt. He was lucky to have been released early.

Just got a call from moorings...NO FISHING on their charter fleet in the foreseeable future. Screwed my upcoming trip. Guess we will have to drink more between islands!

TMM was going to have all the boats liscenced to fish. It will be going into effect shortly if it already hasn't.

Correct Genie. I have confirmed that applications have been submitted to the authorities for the entire TMM fleet. Great example of TMM looking out for what their customers want! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> - Mark

If indeed the case it is likely because at TMM each boat owner will be paying the fee for their boat and at moorings it will be the company paying for every vessel in the fleet. It would require some cost benefit analysis. There are good and bad features to both business plans, but the reason we went with TMM years ago was that I worried about this same thing on upkeep. Like the fishing license its an expense under the guaranteed income plans.

Moorings not paying the fee. Each boat owner has to do the paperwork per bvi gov. What a mess

Does anyone have an update on the fishing situation. We are chartering from Conch Charters. I would love to fish if it is legal.

What about snorkeling for lobster and conch. Is that legal?

We will be there July 22 - July 31

if you want to catch lobster or conch you have to go to the USVI.

The fishing license states that no Lobster or Conch be taken, I think the fine is $5000.00 per conch or Lobster found on board, so no snorkeling for them.

I'm chartering from Conch on Friday. They told me that fishing from the boat in BVI waters is not possible at this time, and that they were not planning to purchase vessel licenses.

I was in the process of getting the license for my moorings boat however that will not make you legal. You have to have the markings normally required only for commercial boats and a assigned radio call sign with that also displayed. In other words no fishing off any charter boat TMM or otherwise. My trip in June will mostly be in the USVI. We eat ashore almost every night and generally spend a lot of money each day. The USVI will appreciate it!
G

The BVI and their Draconian laws.

Well i guess we will be spending more time in the USVI. Do you know if i can fish or catch lobsters with a guide in the BVI?

Anyone know what the situation is with private boats who stay in the BVI year round and have normally purchased the monthly fishing license when down ..??

You need to purchase the boat license and paint your boat up like a commercial fishing trawler. They were not even smart enough to write a reasonable regulation for charter and private yachts. They simply cut and pasted from commercial fishing regulations. Oh, don't forget your official fishing log you need to keep onboard!
G

What many missed for a long time is. The boat must have its own document or registration to allow fishing aboard. Each person fishing or touching a line or rod must have their own person fishing licence to fish on a boat that is properly registered to fish. It seems there are/were multiple goals here. One capture the business of the boats operating out of St. Thomas fishing in BVI waters. Two create a BVI crewed fishing business. Three give the legal authorities laws that give probable cause access and prosecutorial teeth with offenders
.

Well maybe I will just leave the gear in the locker in June and July. They might well change it back. I recall a few years ago they were going to insist each charter boat had a life raft aboard . That kind of fell by the wayside, I wonder if the boat registration might as well if the powers that be can get the same money by raising the temporary import fee on all boats 50$ and fuggitabout the fishing boat registration fees for non commercial private and charter boats. If not will get a license and the numbers in the fall.

I'm hoping (don't want to be involved) that they pull over an unregistered charter boat with someone fishing ...will the BVI want to play hardball with a tourist, a charter boat owner? A charter company? With banking revenue shrinking, Cuba opening up, it would seem to be grand prize stupid to treat them like the old guy out of STT a few years ago.

It's been a couple of months now that this topic has been discussed. So, has anyone recently "seen" anything? Boats being stopped? Still being issued licenses? Charter companies giving warnings or info in briefings? Has anyone on a recent trip fished anyway? I know some plan to fish and take their chances. Of course logic says not too but I know for a fact some are planning to fish. I'm on the fence myself. Would I do it up the channel? NO! On the way to Anegada or on the outside? Maybe but I'm not saying! Often read comments that the marine patrol is never in sight and seems like a risk with semi favorable odds.

"Smith said that it was proposed that the fees be raised and one fee be charged."

There are promises in the press to simplify all this for the boating community. What is also clear is the local government hopes to raise the total cost to boats visiting and local almost $2 Million in the process. This paste is from this week:



Long ago we once skirted all kinds of laws including checking in and out during one night or stop. We do not do that anymore the cost of being stopped and made an example of is far to great. So far the only nasty examples have been boats coming over from the USVI. Why take the chance with a night or many more in the BVI jail and major costs in dollars during a vacation. If you must fish hire a BVI belonger to take you on a guided trip.

We should also note the USVI raised the total tax on all overnite lodging to 12.5% of the total tab. The tax on charters in France, Italy, and across the med is 20% or more on the total cost of the boat.

My point simple is going to cost us all when it gets here!

Here is another "no line" option if you and the crew can eat the evidence to bypass the possession penalties...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qaiaU6IzXE

I doubt most of the local boats have the proper license either. If you are fishing off a unlicensed boat I don't think it matters if your caught. Certainly none of the boats carry the proper markings.

That is amazing. One of our crew members is an avid duck hunter and he has a 2 year old lab. He is going to love this video.

The lobster is dead <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> Have you ever tried to snag a lobster?

Surprised you did not recognize the lobsters are BVI born, raised, and trained leadership lobsters. They just need Trump to straighten them out and make them GREAT again.

I have only been to the USVI/BVI once before but i had great luck catching lobsters with just my bare hands. I was only using snorkeling gear. However, this time i will be bringing gloves to avoid the thousand paper cuts i received from the antennas.

It was not easy but years of free diving, spearfishing, and catching crayfish has to mean something.

Probably not if you "bahn hair" but a "rich foreigner" will end up in Balsum Ghut until he scrapes up a 5 figure fine.

An FYI for those interested. Voyage Charters has registered their boats for fishing.

Did they paint the required markings on them?
G

Have they reserved the cabin for the observer. Set up the necessary log book for fishing, and the reporting of said log book, painted the numbers on board that can be seen from the air. Briefed their guests on where to turn in the fisheries share of the catch. If you read the code all of that and more are in there. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

The folks at Voyage told me they had paid for the license and all was good. I got my license this week from the Conservation and Fisheries dept as usual. They did send an attachment with a "VI catch reporting form" that he said I could email back in.

My guess is the government just want some more money. I don't think they are going to arrest me because we haven't marked up the boat or complied with all the other requirements you guys have read. I will find out next week.

Im curious has anyone chartering in the BVI ever been checked? Ive been several times a year since 1999 and have always trolled as I sailed and have never seen any enforcement or heard of anyone getting stopped except for the guy from stt a few years ago but he wasn't chartering.

I always buy a license and have never been checked.
That said, I will not break the law to fish.

I called and ask and they said the boat license was only valid if the boat is properly marked like a 120 foot cannery ship.
G