Charter w/ just 2 people - good idea or not?

Here's the question - I charter every year usually with a crew of 6-8 people. This summer unfortunately the normal crew isn't available. Thinking about now booking a last minute charter w/ just the wife on a 30-something foot monohull.

Is this a good idea or a recipe for disaster? Spending quality time with the wife on the boat sounds nice. On the other hand, she hasn't really helped out in the past much outside of galley duty, and she's nervous about actually having to help out with the sails, anchoring, etc. I'm a little nervous about having to run the whole show myself, since I usually have plenty of help.

Curious about other folks experience chartering a smaller boat with just a couple people, and how things worked out. Thanks.

Sean

I introduced my non-sailor wife to BVI chartering with the two of us on a 32' monohull in 1991. Over the years we chartered 36', 37', 39', 40' and 47' monohulls together, and then graduated to cats when we started bringing friends along. She still gets nervous, and worries about how they will get the boat home is something happens to me.

I found a 36'-39' monohull is ideal for 2 persons. Reef early so you don't get into an uncomfortable situation - in-mast roller furler really helps since you're effectively shorthanded. With just the 2 of us, I also made a point of staying moored or docked on days when the winds were really blowing to reduce her stress level.

My wife and have done a few charters together (just the 2 of us), although now we also have 2 teenagers to lend a hand, and often another family.

Really depends on your wife's comfort level as far as helping out - my wife didn't have many concerns on our charters with just the 2 of us (usually on a 38' cat), but she has sailed with me on our boat on San Francisco Bay for some time.

You know the charter boats - they are pretty much laid out for basic handling - if she is comfortable with taking the helm while you work the halyards, etc., she could likely manage if she has some sailing knowledge. And, most of the charter companies will even offer (for a fee, of course) a skipper for the first day, if you want someone to help "show her the ropes," so to speak, get her comfortable with handling the boat.

Sean, you could always hire an instructional skipper for the first day or two to help both of you learn to work together to do things yourselves.

By having an instructor with you, it will take the stress out of the situation and give your wife much more confidence in herself.

Teaching somebody close to you (anything) is almost never a good idea. The wrong look at the wrong time or the wrong tone in your voice can create more stress.

Having an expert third party present will take the burden of teaching off you. You may even learn a thing or two yourself. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

An instructor is usually $200.00 per day plus meals. Cheap at twice the price if the goal is to have fun and save your marriage from undue stress.

Since this is your first time sailing with just the two of you, you may want to consider hiring an instructor for the whole time. By the end of a week, you will both be old pros.

It's a great idea and you will find you have a fantastic time that is virtually stress free. Everything is easier with just two people. Go for it and don't look back!
G

I would make sure the boat has an autopilot - it keeps the boat in the wind while you raise sails, holds a course while trimming sails, even does tacks while you're busy with sheets. Then hire a skipper for a day to show you how to do all that.

My wife was very nervous the first time we went as just a couple, but was quite happy by the end of the trip.

We found ourselved in a similar situation a few years ago and although a bit nervous, we went for it. I'd have have to say of our 15 charters, it was probably one of the best. Although we truly love showing others our "happy place", it sure was nice to be able to just go, or not go, when and where we wanted. GO FOR IT!

treat your wife to a nice catamaran, I just happen to have owners time available on a 3900, owners version. Sounds like it could be perfect for you as it's short notice time that I have available and you're talking last minute.

Well, I hate to be the lone dissenter here, but my concern would be handling the mooring pennant alone. It sure is helpful to have one person pick it up and a second to attach lines to it. During our first BVI visit, we helped a couple on a thirty some foot mono. The fellow's wife got a nasty rope burn while trying to moor at Marina Cay. Mooring in calm weather is one thing, but doing it single handed in high winds is another altogether.

When my wife and I decided to start chartering, I enrolled her in ASA classes so she would understand the basics of sailing. Since then we have chartered a 46 ft several times. We enjoy the pleasure of each other's company and the simplicity of sailing with just us. We did have a few frustrations with picking up a mooring in windy conditions but no other issues.

I have picked up moorings truly singlehanded many times. With two people it simply not difficult. The secret is have everything ready in advance and make it a two step process. Have the person picking up the mooring simply tie the mooring line directly to the boat. After that you sort out the bridal, release the mooring line and your all set. It's when you try and do it all at once things go south. Control the line first, then rig the bridal.
G

We've done this many times since I did sailing school in 2015. Sweet Christine took Learn to Sail in 2008, but did not enjoy classes. The two of us went out for our very first bareboat charter in 2013 with a skipper the first two days with CYOA's Mei Nu Jenneau 44i and she was very comfortable having the skipper on board. It gave her a chance to try mooring with an extra set of hands on the boat. After we dropped the skipper off she was a bit more anxious, but we were able to handle the boat safely. After three years, her favorite days are long sails with just the two of us. She is a prize hooker and anchor tender.

On a subsequent trip, we chartered a 36-foot monohull that was waiting on a part for the auto-pilot. The choice was to wait for the part to come in and the repair or head out. Sweet Christine wanted to get on the water. She got a lot of helm time that trip, including Anegada. But, I did miss Otto! She's a better sailor every trip.

Cheers, RickG

At the very least you should get her comfortable operating the helm under power, and agree on some hand signals. That way you can deal with the anchor and moorings.

Rick G --- you may want to type slower -- calling the lovely Christine a " prize Hooker" could result in a MOB drill with her waving 'see you later, honey"

setting up a bridle in advance will really help. We use a 30' dock line and a 6" Winchard carabiner. This making mooring very easy, no lines to tie, just snap the carabiner over the pennant. The $50 carabiner is a great investment.

Some boats are set up to be single handed better than others. If you want a cat, one of the Mahe 36s at CYOA would be really easy to sail alone. (I checked into it before we sailed with kids. I was thinking if it was just the two of us, there might be an instance where one of us might have to deal with the kids and leave the other person to handle the boat. Turns out that was never an issue.)

Go for the gusto. My wife and I have chartered alone for the past 11 years. We get a power cat, she drives the boat while I am in charge of securing lines, music and cocktails. Works out great! Enjoy!

Best to check with her lawyer to find out what he thinks. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

We have no issues with two person boat travel from St. Thomas to Martinique. The helmsman job is to put and keep the bow on the ball/pendant until the single crew working the bow gets the pendant secure. At the first hint of any load the standing order is the single person always ALWAYS lets the pendant go. You should never have more than one on the bow anyway. The helmsman should practice slowly approaching the mooring with no one on the bow until everyone on the crew is comfortable the helm can control the boat sufficiently for a single crew to walk forward and pick up the mooring with a hook. If one or more are ever wrestling or strained in any way on the bow during any anchoring, mooring, or docking the person at that wheel and controls is doing it wrong. The competent and prudent skipper will have a clear standing order to always release any line in the docking process that ever has any load on it. It is never worth it to risk injury to a crew member trying to overcome the errors of the person trying to drive the massive boat. The only reason to skip the two person trip is when one or more of the two do not have the passion to be on the boat. Have the crew working the bow stand just behind the helm. When the driver has the boat in control and in position the bow duty crew then walks forward to pick up the pendant just off one side of the bow. The helmsman drives and controls the heavy boat; never the person on the bow trying to use human strength to the horse the boat into position. Never try to hold a line under load ever! Never put yourself or any body part between the boat and dock. The boat is plastic. The human body and our hands are not.

I must be missing something. If your wife is game, do it.

My wife and I have done many charters together. We consider it the best way to spend a vacation.

As for mooring, it's pretty easy. You do the work that might require some strength, and she does the work that requires a delicate touch. Which means, she should be at the helm and you should be at the bow. Why so many couples do it the other way around is completely beyond me.

Do it.
Take sail2wind's advice and get the caribiner.

My husband and I are alone on our upcoming charter and we are really looking forward to it being just the two of us after 8 on a cat last year.

And yes - Don is right about the mooring - show her how to head up to the mooring slowly at the helm, into the wind, and develop some hand signals - <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> -- and above all, be patient with each other since you might not do anything perfectly <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

It's been way too long since we're done a two person charter. The last four trips we've taken other people. Hope to do one this winter. Whenever we've done it people always ask if we're on our honeymoon. Never had any problems, but we're pretty much always just the two of us on our boat here at home.

As for hand signals-we pretty much just stick to one...it's pretty universal! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL....Kirk...I don't think that one ever means "put it in neutral now" but it's just a guess <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

We started out doing double-handed charters back in the 1980's. My wife is game to help sail and pick up moorings though. That said, I knew that I could handle the boat by myself if need be. If you can sail the boat competently by yourself you can probably pull it off. A boat in the 35-foot range is pretty easy to sail by yourself, particularly if it's got an autopilot.

I'd suggest you only do it if your wife is ready to step up a little and help out.

We started as a two person crew 20 years ago. The captain was an experienced sailor, I was an experienced passenger.

After two charters in the BVI (yes we survived #1 and #2) I insisted that I learn how to start the engine, handle the boat under power and bring the boat back to the harbor single handed in case the captain was injured. After 20 years we are both comfortable with all aspects of boat handling,

Two rules. 1. The captain is always (well almost always) right. 2. We always do a man overboard drill.

Gin and tonics helped with our daily discussions on how things could have been handled better.

Even now we both prefer to be alone on the boat.

Good luck!

My thoughts exactly.

I'd love to charter with just us two, but we bring friends to help cover costs. I'd never again go without AC in the summer (we had a rainy week with closed hatches and a boat full of mosquitoes, covered in DEET head to toe) - NOT sexy.
We sail on the lake at home alone all the time, but I haven't spent enough time driving to feel comfortable doing it on a chartered boat. My husband must be pretty good at it though, cause I don't think I've ever missed a mooring ball. Good advice about having just one at the bow, as I recall the only time we struggled was when a friend tried to "help" me.
We've also never had much wind, so lots of days were motoring anyway. You could always just do that, and enjoy the peaceful boat to yourselves. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Sean, some good comments and thoughts posted. We own a Mahe 36 and have her in charter at HYC. The Mahe is a perfect example of solo, couple or 2 couple sailing vessel. We spend time with friends and also the two of us. The fist mate did a basic crew sailing course and gave her all the confidence required and terminology to feel comfortable with the two of us. I have instructed in multiple different sports and know it is a BAD idea to try and teach a partner or spouse! Don't try and teach her and you'll be all good. ( take a carabiner or snap shackle, you can do it all your self with a ball) K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid. Aloha.

This is too funny. We just returned from a fantastic charter on Saturday. Friday night at Cooper, we were tucked onto a mooring ball enjoying some rum drinks when a large powercat came up to take one of the northernmost balls. Husband at the helm, wife at the hook. What a mess that became. She was trying to pull up the mooring line and boat hook went flying. The flying boat hook was followed by her flying arms gesturing to her aloof husband at the helm. We quickly dropped our davit line and hopped in our dingy to retrieve their boat hook so they could complete their tie up. When we came along side, we got a very light and French "Thanks".

Like all others said, CAN she do it? Sure! but spend 30 minutes teaching her the proper ways to take the helm and stay married to the gal!

we have never had to use a second hook on mooring while single handed. But our little dingy got away a couple of times under sail. If you look below on Hallucinations, we have a back-up now.

this was done at the bequeath of the hooker.

Single handed balls are really not that hard, prepare everything first. Single handed anchors are so much easier .

I have a new "goal" where I enter the field, point/stall the boat, and see if i can lay up to the ball a few 10s of feet out. fun.

I chartered with my wife a few years ago on a Moorings 32 monohull. I was in a similar situation, it was our first charter as a couple It worked out great, even she agrees. We both prefer bigger boats, so probably won't repeat it, but it beats not going. I would just talk it through a lot before getting there and then doing some training of each other on sail raising and moorings. I'd keep it simple and stay on moorings only.

So, worst comes to worst and on the second day you are in North Sound and you want to strangle each other.

Take a ball at Leverick, dinghy in and beg to be taken to a slip for the rest of the week. Stay on the boat, rent a car, visit all of VG and ride the free water shuttle all around North Sound. When your time is up, key the Iron Jenny and motor back to base ( yes you can do this in one shot if you start early. We've motor- sailed from Leverick to CYOA on St Thomas and made a noon check-in, and that included a swim at Christmas Cove. ) Granted, that was a very early morning departure from NS, but everyone got their coffee with refills and their toast/cereal and no one complained.

There are always ways to work around an issue, and virtually no reason to beat yourself up. See it for an opportunity, not a potential disaster.

A couple of things to maybe make it easier to just two people with one not the best sailor. First get at least a 35' mono,IMHO anything smaller starts to get a little crowded. Next take the stress out of raising the sail, raise the main by yourself while still on the mooring and leave at least one reef in the sail. Its much easier to shake out a reef than to try to put one in. As for picking up a mooring,if it really becomes an issue, again do it yourself by reversing into it and picking up the pendent at the stern and with a dock line thru it walk it forward (make sure the dinghy is tied to the side of the boat out of the way). Just some thoughts. Good luck and most of all have fun.

I respectfully disagree in approaching a mooring from the stern, too many bad things could happen.

Moorings are approached with the bow into the wind and current. The retrieving and securing of the mooring pendant is a one person and only one person job, the others are just in the way under the guise of "helping".

Here is one demonstration on how the task is executed. Boat control is the key skill set and deliverable for success. The helm must have have the boat in control for the other tasks be successful. Slow, deliberate, into the wind stopping within easy reach of the pendant. If there is any doubt the helm should start over and repeat the approach.

https://youtu.be/m_B2SO4Af-o

Many years ago at Marina Cay I watched a charter captain in a monohull pick up a mooring by himself. He rigged the mooring line from the bow and ran it back to the helm. He then pulled up alongside the ball, grabbed the loop with the boat-hook and tied on. He popped it in reverse for a second and was soon hanging off the mooring from the bow.

I've thought about doing this with a big carabiner. Once you're hooked on you have all the time in the world to make it pretty or more permanent.

My wife and I have done it just the two of us a few times. We typically get something in the 32-36 foot range. The first time grabbing a ball is hard, but then it gets easier and easier. I always have a line run from the bow to the stern in case the boat hook goes in and I need to solo it. But we have never used it. It is a fantastic trip as a couple, just keep it simple and take it slow. When it is just the two of us I always raise the main on the ball before she breaks us free....then you just glide away...

We have been doing this for 5 or 6 years. My suggestion would be to go to Norman and pick a ball away from the crowd. This will reduce 'pressure' and give you a shot at a second ball if you miss. Make sure the person getting the ball hooks the pendent line and not the eye of the pendent. Practice the next day after everyone leaves. Worked for us!

My wife and I have done several solos, and while there can be a bit of nervousness, all has gone well. Similar past experience regarding her involvement in picking up the mooring, etc, but just go slowly and be patient -- once she grabs the pennant, go forward and help...

If you are very aware of the boat and the effects of wind and current on that boat you may get away with bringing the mooring anywhere past amidship. The less experienced with that boat, those currents and wind will end up with the mooring cable on the keel, rudder, skeg, or prop. For that reason only those that really understand where the mooring cable is and how each boat will perform to any throttle or rudder change in the sea and weather conditions of the day should ever attempt anything but a simple pick up of the pendant from the bow once the helmsman has stopped the bow in that place. The person driving the boat must stop the bow where the single crew tasked with lifting the pendant onto the boat can do that without effort. All the skill and work must be with the person at the wheel and throttle. The single person on the bow simply lifts and places nothing more.

If you have a speedometer onboard ..gps..or handheld the helms person can learn the approach speed INTO THE WIND that works. Most errors are related to too much speed. You want to end up near dead in the water...way too often the boat is going 2-3 kts when the hooker attempts snagging the ball. Always goes badly then.

Agree on the speed and the most common mistake of too much headway. Totally disagree on using anything like a "speedometer" or GPS to gauge the approach to a dock or mooring. Tape that stuff over and focus on your movement relevant to stationary object near by. Once you are within sight of land the only electronic tool that should be used is the depth sounder. Into the wind at the lowest headway possible to maintain steerage is the way to go. On a cat the dual engines allow control with no headway for those that master the concept.

Well indeed we disagree. Yes with lots of experience one can stop that boat on the ball and hold it there. Or pick it up from single handling ..did it many times. My spouse and I don't recall missing a ball for last several years we had the boat..suspect our memory erased failures. However for first few tries..and since it was a screen right handy..seeing 0.1 kts was quite comforting..big difference than 0.5 or 1 kt..which feels much the same. If it helps overcome the biggest error..to hot..why on earth not use it?

Why not use it? Because on an unfamiliar boat and on many boats that some are very familiar with the knot meter is not accurate or reliable for anything. Glad it worked out for you. I would never suggest coaching anyone to rely on that boat tool/toy. The better coaching is to get and keep the head and eyes out of the boat. Note the relative movement through the water, past other fixed objects, and the closing on the mooring. One other hint is to keep everyone off the bow until the very last minute. The body(s) waiving boathooks and arms can be very distracting to the young helmsman in an unfamiliar space. If you have any doubt stop the boat well away from the mooring and then go ahead at the lowest possible headway possible with infrequent touches of forward gear to get and keep the boat moving with steerageway. That velocity will be different for each boat and wind condition. Practice bringing the bow to a mooring can be done at any time with no one on the bow. It should be done by any helmsman until the helmsman has confidence on the boat of the day.

Whatever...if someone is going out for the first time I'd strongly suggest looking at the knot meter approaching a ball. You are not navigating into skerry shoals for gosh sakes. for the novice seeing boat speed drop to near zero approaching is crucial. "Slow" is not sufficient as many spouse over boards, lost boat hooks, rope burns and embarrassed crew and marital strife will attest. For a novice..gawking at the bank or boat next door while steering won't likely give as good a quick read of speed as the screen...is it necessary? Nope..is it helpful first few pickups? Absolutely. . There's a reason my buddy down there working for moor secure replaces so many pennants...not because they were going too slow in approach. I suggest they check speed on gauge if available..you tell em to tape over it. Now they have a choice.

So my wife and I ended up booking an Oceanis 38 through DYC. Looking forward to getting back to the BVI this summer. This will be probably my 7th or 8th charter in the BVI, but first time back since 2012 and first time in BVI using anyone other than Moorings (we have used DYC in La Paz).

Sean

Yep... all this does and will happen again. "spouse over boards, lost boat hooks, rope burns and embarrassed crew and marital strife". The most important family item here. A very clear standing order to all men, women, and children if there is ever any load pulling on a mooring or docking line in your hand you always let that go and step away. Step away to the mast if you do not know where to go. No one ever should be reaching for any mooring of dock lines from a multi ton moving boat. Yes, you will see individuals doing it all the time with the appearance of success. It is always dangerous. Just as stepping in front of a car in the garage thinking the driver will surely stop is reckless. The prudent mariner, husband, and father will bring the boat to the mooring or dock. Stop the boat within reach of the line(s) to be retrieved and placed securely. Only with the boat stopped and under control should the skipper give the order to reach for the line. There is never any harm in the helmsman observing the conditions and taking the boat back around to make a more controlled approach. If the crew notices the helmsman has his head down into the instruments. I suggest sitting down in the cockpit until the driver gets his end of the boat under control. If a mooring pendant ever pulls on you. Let it go! The boat weighs tons, the engine has the power of 10's of horses, the mooring is screwed to the bottom. A gorilla could not win that battle. When the dock or mooring line pulls the helmsman has created all the error never the crew. Release the line and give the helm the chance to correct the error on the next controlled approach. Step back and away to it is clear to the helm you are clear and the line released. This also gives the helm the visibility back to exit and make another approach.

The rigging of any bridle and pendent is different for each boat and mooring. No one can type that here. If you do not understand how you will attach the the line you retrieve do not go forward. Do you best to never be a part of group effort on the bow. The retrieving of a mooring line is a one person job. Maybe two if the person using the hook would like and specifically asks someone to take the boat hook from them.

Here is a simple picture of one man safely holding a dock line. The line is outside of everything, clear, all in one hand. At the first sign of any load that line can be released on let go with no risk of any injury to the person. The single person or the bow should keep themselves free and clear of any line they many need to release.

Try this - 1. Feel the strength and direction of the wind on your face. 2. Look over the side at the water to judge your speed. 3. Adjust throttle and helm accordingly. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />