Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/178954908878855/permalink/1415295251911475/
Unbelievable! Not sure how to post video? SV Seaduction

Just one of the many flaws of using a chart plotter to navigate once you are within sight of land. I certainly will get flamed but the prudent mariner knows how to use a paper chart and uses the paper and tools first any only uses the chart plotter out of sight of land to confirm the work on paper. The guy had no idea where he was in two or three dimensions. When you can see land cover the display and get your head out of the boat.

We bought a chart plotter when "Rush" came out of charter. Never installed it and just went with charts (which we learned on) and eyesight. Probably saved a lot of foul words.

They said the guy said the reef wasn't on the charts! Lol

The reef would be clearly visible from the helm station on a 5800. If you look!
G

That's insane. Somehow that guy was given command of a Moorings 58 and he has apparently never picked up a cruising guide, chart or even, out of curiosity, just zoomed in on White Bay via Google maps. The reef is clear and obvious in all of those mediums.

2 more great videos on his site if you click through the comments - including a power vessel going onto the reef from the inside!--- and Husky Towing trying to get Seaduction off.

The color changes of the water alone should be so obvious!!! any boater who drives onto that reef is blind, oblivious, incompetent and plain stupid.

Doesn't Moorings require one of their own captains on cats that big? Not that professional captains are much better when it comes to avoiding reefs. I frequently see them too close to Diamond Reef so their guests can snorkel off the back. Anything for a big tip!

A chart plotter zoomed at the incorrect level will make all kinds of things disappear. Reefs even entire large islands are removed from the display some mistake for a "chart". That is just one of the reasons electronic chart plotters are so dangerous. Even more dangerous when used as the primary tool for coastal navigation. Depending on the time of day, cloud cover, and sun angle the reef may or not be visible. There simply is no substitute for proper use of the paper charts and visiable navigation aids once you are insight of land.

And, on the video the prop wash appears to indicate the skipper (I use the term loosely) is trying to power FORWARD over the reef. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

NO! Moorings, Sunsail, Dream Yacht Charters, etc. don't require "captains" on their big catamarans, even up to and including 60 foot cats. No day sailor can be expected to understand these big cats unless they have significant sea time on the same model catamaran. But as long as the charter person has a credit card they can get a monster cat for a week! Just pay the deductible when you hit a reef <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

For the most part the insurance underwriters are in control of what can be bareboated. The tradional limit is a hull value of one million pounds. For years we have chartered the largest and newest boat we could get. The documents generally show a value of 999,999. Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

At the end of the day the Moorings and others are nothing more than Marketing and Sales organizations. They own few boats. The banks, owners credit, and the insurance companies take all the hull and damage risks.

Before you throw and typed spears. Go to your local Hertz or Avis and watch the checkout procedures to rent a Escalade, Lincoln, or even now very high performance vehicles capable of extreme speed.

The real checkout at Hertz or the Tortola dock. Can you get the machine out of the parking spot and put of the parking/docking area.

White Bay always shows ignorance or risk taker. Many on this forum once went into White Bay and have learned something along the way that lead them to stop that "fun" practice. Others blindly follow the chart plotter around swearing by them until they learn why that is a risk to the safety of the hull and passengers.

Short day visits to white Bay for us. No overnights anymore. Too much risk.

Brown, brown run aground... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Complete Idiots.. Ohh sorry the chart said there was no reef there .. You can clearly see the reef and there are two sets of markers to get in .. hope they get fined .. !!

Markers??? Like RED GREEN?

Why would you expect them to mean much

Left over from Christmas?

That is what happens when the helmsman goes heads down following the chart plotter around like the video toy chart plotters are near shore. Near shore the helmsman must keep his head out of the boat. If a chart plotter must be used a designated navigator should be tasked to use the screens well away and out of sight of the helmsman.

Truth is we will likely never know the details re how it happened.

We were in White Bay on Ohana yesterday when this happened. The "Captain" literally just drove on the reef between the two sets of channel markers. There were people on the front of the cat, a crunch was heard and they flew forward. Husky came and inflated bags under it and pulled them off. Apparently no serious hull damage and they then took a ball at Ivan's. The Moorings has two 58's that they bareboat charter. Wonder if he has a clue the internet sensation he has become.

But we will continue with speculation that makes us feel as superior as possible.

Really? Did you actually watch the video?

Moorings will bareboat the 58 with 2 experienced skippers. I have looked into chartering the 58 and that is what I was told in the last year or so.

I surely have no superior feelings, have made my share of errors over the years - but that is a very obvious REEF.

I think I would be way too embarrassed to take a White Bay mooring after that entrance - seriously.
I once sailed aground entering into Drakes Anchorage restaurant in North Sound - I canceled my dinner reservation and anchored way far away that night. Totally embarrassed! And I had only forgotten to lift the centerboard.

Unless the charter somehow got Husky out there on their own? I suspect The Moorings were and are involved taking command of the vessel for the remainder of the charter. The owner and the owners insurerer should be demanding a survey prior to any new stresses or loads being put on the boat. Depending on the twisting loads on that nub keel there could be some issues to address or rudder concerns.

You can clearly see the green channel marker in the first video...

When we go in there, I still have lookouts on the bow.

During the Moorings briefings that I've been in, there are a few areas on the map the briefer jokingly named as a Moorings "sales office"... I guess this is a new one. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

tonnage/weight. Huh?

More cut and paste from Ron. He has not left PA in the past 15 years. Call him Wiki Ron.

Looks like that may not have been the case this time.

We took the 58 out shortly after they were in charter - The size only played a role in docking so I'm sure they would have done this on any other boat as well.

A 50' mono with a single engine is much more difficult to handle than a 58' with twins.

And both are considerably more difficult after a day visiting beach bars. Just sayin'.

I was thinking the same thing, I was taught tonnage was a factor of the space available for cargo and has nothing to do with the actual weight of the boat.

When I try the link to the video, I get the message "Sorry, this content isn't available right now". I tried using both Edge and Firefox. It doesn't open on my ipad either.

I would disagree with this. I could easily singlehand a 50 foot mono and did it many times. I would not consider trying to singlehand a larger cat.

If you are irresponsible <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Yes that is the way it works. The underwriters put limits on the weight and value of the boats the underwriters will insure for use without a crew. No insurance no finance along with some other issues. You may not like it but the underwriters decided what boats are bareboat and what boats are not. The marketing companies would rent anything the owners would buy and the customers would pay for.

so sad! - no excuse at all. Was just there in June for the night on a ball. According to Moorings, I can charter anything up to the 58ft Catamaran. So I guess I don't have as much experience as that Captain. But I know enough to research harbour and bay entrances on the paper chart and cruising guide before I set sail! And I know the phrase "red right returning".... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

If you want a little more speculation since the skipper of the 5800 will not show up here for his trial. Same with the Mooring's Dock worker who "checked the two out". That boat may have been on autopilot. The boat hits the reef without slowing down and remains in gear well after impact.. There may have not been anybody near the helm with skills when the 5800 ground to a stop on the reef.

This theory makes lots of sense.

Thank you.

What trial?

I guess some people might think auto-pilot will avoid obstacles and pick up a mooring ball or drop anchor for you?

Auto pilot is for when the captain flunks the sobriety test. (Just kidding of course).

It is not unusual at all for some to just put the cursor in the middle of the area they generally want to go. Then head down to the head or deal with some other task. For that reason many of the charter companies would disable the early auto pilots, chart plotters ect.

Sorry, tonnage is a measure of VOLUME not WEIGHT. "You know nothing, Jon Snow!"

he knows how to copy and paste

... and plagiarize.

Believe what you want. In virtually all industries and markets he who has the gold makes the rules. In the charter fleet world that is the banks financing the owners boats and the insurance underwriters protecting the banks from losses.


Pick up the telephone and try to get an insurance quote to bareboat a hull with a value of $2 Million or a gross weight of 150,000lbs. You will not find any underwriters willing to cover boats of that weight or value without a licensed crew.

Keep the value under one million pounds sterling and you will find some takers for a bonafide charter operation.

The marketing companies will gladly make the commissions on anything anyone is will to buy for them and the insurance companies willing to insure.

yes, since so many people use pounds in the U.S. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I doubt you will find a charter boat weighing 150,000 lbs. for smaller charter boats insurance is about 2% of hull value, weight was never an issue

Yup... A Voyage 60 weighs in only around 40,000 lb.

I'm more confused why casailor is picking on his buddy, Ron. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

So, does anyone know how the boat did? Any major damage?

We saw the Moorings 58 take a ball at Ivan's after they were pulled off the reef. They stayed the night.

My understanding is that the stub keels on these boats are essentially sacrificial. If there was no other contact the damage may be relatively minor.

The keels on the Leopards are designed to be sacrificed. The can be unbolted and replaced. With the impact they had they are probably going to need replacement or a lot of glasswork. That area of the reef is shallow enough that it's possible there was some hull damage. If no hull damage there are no real issues staying out to the end of the charter.
G

surprised the props were not damaged

Likely the keels did some of their job and prevented the hull from traveling into water shallow enough to do real damage. Outside of single errant rock or coral head the rudders would be ripped from the boat before the props and struts would be damaged. Prudent naval architecture is a design that will handle a sudden grounding at hull speed with no threat to water integrity or the ability to sail to safe harbor. Not having a design capable of a sudden stop at hull speed puts the life of the passengers at risk with collisions of submerged containers and whatever else waits just below the surface at night.

water integrity?

That means the hull remains solid and intact and no water comes into the hull or hulls or the opposite of catastrophic hull failure. Properly designed boats are more than capable of slamming into the bottom or other hazard in the water without sinking. See the video of the 5800 hundred and all the boats with scratches on the keels in any BVI anchorage. The good ones just get scratch when they slam into the bottom under power or sail.

When the moorings people want to talk with you after the accident, all you gotta say is "this reef was not shown anywhere in the sailing guide on the approach to '--Cooper Island--'". You want to make sure you say this with a straight face.

Also, it's important to note on these big cats that all you have to do when approaching the dock is "straddle the pier". This means you don't have to put out fenders or use any lines. Its very simple.

I was on a ball in front of Ivan’s in White Bay. I watched a number of boats including Moorings boats which appeared to have Mooring captains motor over the reef on the east side. There are 2 channels one cleanly marked with red and green buoys in front of Soggy, the other towards the eastern end with one marker or what appeared to be a green buoy. No red buoy. The cruising guide shows a reef on the eastern end and boats appeared to be entering and exiting right over it with no attempts to use either marked channels. What am I missing?

Your not missing anything

Green Marker at Ivan's End is way off station....