Boatyball

How is this going to work?

sounds simple. Download app, reserve and pay.

https://boatyball.com/about.html

It will all end in tears.

Was just about to post about this. Would love to hear how this goes. I can imagine the first time somebody is told to get off the ball at sunset b/c its reserved for a late-comer.

How much of a premium? or is it a cost savings to Moor Secure not having to have a dingy collect fee? Monitoring could easily be by video monitoring.

Agree there may be some confusion by someone picking up "reserved" ball and when the "rightful" boat comes along, how will it be settled? (and crew may be gone from boat).

Will follow closely.

$35. How are you to know if a mooring has been reserved? Is someone going to go out and put a "RESERVED" card on the mooring? I can imagine some fireworks. $35 is the total cost, so an extra $5.

So...these are new balls in addition to the Moor Seacure ones?

From the website that what it sounds like...

In which case no issue.

A while back Moor Secure installed the moorings to belongers who had the seabed rights and they maintained them.
I’m curious if it’s the same today.
Possibly they prefer the new system due to haveing different mooring companies in some anchorage’s and eliminate the possibility of a competitor collecting the fee on one of theirs.

We absolutely hate this idea!

It's just a recipe for agro and fights as people have said, how will you know if a ball is reserved. What if you have no access to the app. Who is going to police it.

I don't understand what was wrong with the existing system! The earlier you get there...the better chance and choice of balls. That's fair. And if you want to sail longer and rock up late then use that heavy pointy thing connected to the chain on the bow of your boat...thats what it's for!

You’re right, its going to be a real fiasco especially since a lot of charterers today have a Jet Ski mentality.

According to Boatyball Facebook, "We are going to have bay managers in each of the bays we are working with to help enforce. The new moorings will be very different then what is currently in the BVI so it will be obvious to boaters." and "We are installing new moorings that will be a different shape, color, and size from the standard white and blue that you find in the BVI. They will also be marked "Reservation Only".

Ok. I have the story right from the Boatyball people. These will be newly-installed moorings, a different shape and color than the standard moorings. They will be numbered. Someone in the host harbor, presumably the collector of standard mooring fees, will settle disputes and misunderstandings. The charter companies are supposed to be educating charter captains. I don't know who will inform private captains. Actually, this may work after a period of adjustment, as long as the original moorings are still available first-come, first-serve. I suspect there may be some nasty encounters at first.

KF Quinn MD

"We are going to have bay managers in each of the bays we are working with to help enforce."

Yeah...that'll work

Ok...this is sounding better! I will tentatively take back some of my initial negativity!

If what is already there, stays there and stays on a first-come-first-serve basis...then this would be an enhancement. If balls are numbered and clearly marked...then should be fine.

Yes there will be some issues. But as it is you always see some clown moor up to the 'PRIVATE DIVE BOAT' balls that are there and then get chased away at sunset!

The one issue that has not been addressed is what happens if a reserved ball has no reservation? Is there going to be some way to release it for general first come, first served use?

KF Quinn MD

I don’t see how many more balls could be added at cooper.

I bet we lose some moorings.

You are correct. I believe they are planning to replace the mooring balls closest to Cooper Island Beach Club with the new reserved moorings, so no net increase.

KF Quinn MD

Is there a timeline?
We are there Dec17.

Cooper would be nice to book if it works as advertised.

Brian

Something like this has been my dream for several years. The concept is great...the execution may be challenging. I will support anything that reduces worry about full mooring fields while trying to enjoy more of the BVI. I look forward to learning more.

I keep looking for an April first dateline!

Let’s hope this is just a couple of web pages posted in jest.

my concern is that you will be able to book the balls weeks in advance.

Not knowing where you will be or what the weather will be will make this very challenging.

People will push to get to an mooring where they have reserved and paid for a ball even if its not prudent or safe to do so.

I like and support the idea of being able to reserve a ball in advance, as long as the anchorages are monitored. This lets us enjoy more of the day sailing the boat vs racing to catch the last mooring by noon. As for paying in advance, that's no different from making a reservation for a mooring or a slip elsewhere. We had to walk away from a "paid for" reservation this summer due to weather. What's key is that the policy is clear and easy to understand. Besides, after paying for the cost of flights and the boat, a $35 mooring fee is not going to make or break the vacation.

Hopefully the fee will remain $35 per night.

Also to Warren's point, Hope the cancellation policy allows for changes of itinerary (ie weather). Cancellation by night before allows planning while allowing cancellation to be utilized by others.

"The Devil is in the Details"

Guess I’m old school. There’s limited space for mooring balls. Still think first come first serve is best and most fair.

It should be first come first served and last in first out. This is going to be a nightmare. I can assure people that when they arrive at sunset for that premium ball at Cooper island someone will be on it.
G

they must be replacing the moor secure balls in Anegada with the new balls as they is 20 more going in by Belongers in January that will be closer in and towards the front of the present mooring field, these balls have nothing to do with Moor secure

I agree that getting kicked off of a ball at Cooper at sunset would be frustrating. (Are any other anchorages as contested as Cooper?) This is why it's so important to have a monitored anchorage. I would expect management to dinghy out and confirm whether or not a boat was rightfully on a mooring well before sunset, ideally as soon as the tie up is attempted. If I had a reservation that I had to enforce myself by kicking another boat off of a ball after they've been limin' all afternoon, then it's not really a reservation.

if the price is the same I dont see how it will work. If you are really going to pay for a ball in advance that you expect to be available for your use when you arrive at sunset then you should be prepared to pay a premium for it. If each bay will have a bay manager that will police the mooring for the paying customer and all these balls will be new for the purpose then why wouldn't you charge more... my guess is that this will flare out. First come first served is just fine. Anchoring for the latecomers is also just fine... and its free!

Anchoring outside the mooring field at Cooper is deep water and the charter boats don’t give you enough line.

I have boated in waters where mooring balls can be reserved in advance and it works well. You reserve, get your ball number and tie up. This allows you to enjoy your day and sights along the way to your next spot without worry. There were always "check in" and "check out" times no different than a hotel. On occasion you may need to inform someone that you have a certain ball reserved. This was never a problem as the balls were well marked and the boat knew they were in the wrong and just trying to get away with something (same boaters who tie up to private mooring balls or overnight on National Park balls.)

Having some balls available for reservation and some first-come first served caters to all interests and styles of boating.

I doubt there will be "bay monitors". Follow the money [- it doens't add up. If they charge $35 for this service and the first come first served balls are $30 and all the moorings are full there is simply not enough delta to add the cost/time/hassle of a "bay monitor" to collect maybe fifty bucks. So either the cost has to increase significantly or most if not all of the moorings have to use the new system. In any case I'm certain you will be on your own to try to enforce your reservation.

One small twist I would make to this reservation system.
If you're not on the ball by an hour before sunset you forfeit your reservation and your fee.

Indeed - Cooper is also largely pretty inappropriate for Anchoring anyway given the bottom grass. I saw a charter monohull drag halfway across the mouth of the bay a year or 2 back, no-one on board, and had to standby in the dinghy with a tow line waiting for the skipper to return from his snorkel trip!

That one seems pretty simple. If a ball has no reservation, you simply reserve it. The only negative aspect here is the need to have the app and be online - internet would be a requirement if you want to use any of these balls.

I think the next step will be "demand pricing" just like Uber. If you want the last ball in the anchorage, you will pay a premium for it. Five years from now, this is the way the BVI will operate. It will be a better experience for your money.

It is certainly an interesting concept, one that has worked in other places. Dockwa is available in other areas and essentially does the same thing.

One thing that I think could work great if it was part of it would be being able to make a reservation and cancel at anytime. The catch would be that if you cancel and no one else takes over your reservation, you still pay for it. But if you cancel and someone else books an otherwise full mooring field, they'd take the mooring you had reserved and you'd then get a refund. Would be great if there was a waitlist in a full mooring field as well - someone cancels, you get a notification..etc. Lots of potential. Only realy drawback I see is that it requires having an internet connection and not everyone will have it.

All of the TMM boats have an internet connection included at no extra charge.

In my experience in sailing the BVIs, enforcement of mooring balls would be a joke. I’ve seen countless boat overnighting on park balls, dive balls, and private balls. The BVI government officials are too lazy or incompetent to actually enforce their laws. I also think that having a reservation will lead to charterers coming into mooring field after dark and endangering those already on a ball. Charter companies usually require that charterers be moored by 4 or 5 pm.

25 years ago this would seem unnecessary but this is the world we all live in now. Dockwa is an app that I have used extensively in the Northeast for piece of mind to reserve a mooring ball at lets say Nantucket which has limited anchor room and once you arrive its too late to go anywhere else if the harbor is full. I been beaten out by too many Power Cats that I was a mile ahead of heading into say Diamond Cay that blew my whole vibe. Yes the romantic in me wants to imagine such technological intrusions take away from the spirit of cruising but those days have pasted a long time ago and once the kinks are worked out this new system while not without problems will probably be a net gain to our collective cruising experience.

With the decrease in BVI chartering traffic, I would just stick with the old way of picking whatever open ball you see. It also leaves you free to not moor somewhere you intended on staying when you find the mooring place is not what it once used to be or you just want to go somewhere else which we did several times a couple months ago. However I will be back next week and will let you know if anything changes.

From what I hear they are currently installing new moorings with Moorseacure that are to be used in conjunction with the Boaty Ball app. The other moorings will remain first come first serve. Its up to the mooring ball owner, but the app will allow them to enter their first come first serve moorings, allowing boaters to pay that way if they wish. The whole concept of the app was to make the payment process more secure for the boater, less labor intensive for the bay owner, and safer overall (all moorings entered into the app must be maintained, installed, and insured by Moorseacure).

May have seen Anegada Reef Hotel posted on their FB page support of BoatyBall coming their way.

I saw them inspecting the mooring balls in CGB last week but couldn't tell if they were different now. I don't think they changed them out yet.

I know that James Leonard had 10 mooring balls at Cooper, since his passing in May, 2017, not sure who owns those, or if they are even still there? I'm guessing no one has maintained them since his death?

The Boaty Ball moorings are going to be orange, conical shaped buoys that are marked with the a Boaty Ball logo and website name so they should be pretty easy to identify. I think they are planning on launching the app in mid December so the moorings should be installed by then.

Maybe they will issue a unique code to unlock the painter stored inside the mooring ball.

After your 50th booking you can become a gold member.

Gold members qualify for the upgraded mooring balls will have a remote control arm that lifts the painter up to your deck.

I think they are trying to install all the mooring balls and launch the app early to mid December so it might be up and running by then.

Platinum members have special moorings sporting a Chimp complete with Captains hat who salutes you and jumps aboard and ties you off

Orange mooring balls are going to be a problem on Anegada as the new 20 balls going in will be orange also

This is going to be sheer entertainment. We will be down next July. I am going to sit with a rum drink and some popcorn.
Just watch the show.

Take videos please!
G

Given the influx of power vessels in the BVIs, reserving in advance a good idea if monitored properly. Takes the stress out of rushing to an anchorage by noon to get a ball - coming from a sailing perspective.

Personally I’d rather anchor, not too many places left to anchor.

Looks like they have put more info on their web page.
Can reserve only on the same day (starting at Midnight)..Reserved balls $35.
First come: $33

Boatyball posted a pic of their mooring on facebook. Anyone used them yet?

https://www.facebook.com/1796466317074806/posts/1928549467199823/

No, but right now I'm enjoying looking at the picture, and imagining that I'm the one who just tied up to that ball.

Dan

So the open balls, not the reserved ones, are now $33?

Right now it doesn’t look like they have any first come first serve balls in the app. I think they’re making sure the reservation moorings work first before they start installing the first come first serve moorings.

Let the BoatyBallBattlesBegin

I do agree

I said I before, Let,s set the stage. Boat #1 arrives mid afternoon and picks up a ball.
they are hanging out enjoying the day and having a few drinks ect. Hours later boat #2 shows up and
states, hey that is our mooring, we have reserved it. Let the fun begin. I am sure boat #1 is happy to move.????
We will be down in july and I will have popcorn and a drink ready to enjoy the show.

So what happens when you are enjoying your popcorn and Boat #2 pulls up?!

What a great reason to sail the islands.....

Invite them for a drink?? Wait for the mooring ball police ??? Just a opinion . On a serious side we have been coming down as early as the mid 70s. This seems quite problematic

Many charters are so afraid of anchoring they will pick up a water jug tied to a cinderblock before they will anchor. If they see a open mooring near sunset they are going to take it, reservations will not be a consideration. I propose the skippers each get in their dinghy’s with boat hooks. The boat hooks will be used like lances in a joust. First one knocked out of the dinghy has to move to another anchorage for the night!!

I sent a message to the Boatyball owners on FB a couple of days ago, I mentioned this thread in that message. They responded that they were watching, maybe they can jump in here and make us all feel better about using this service? Just an idea.....give us an update on how it their system is working so far?

If your Boatyball mooring is occupied......

1. Grab another mooring or anchor. YES
2. Advice your new friend of the situation. YES
3. Wait for the mooring ball police. YES
4. Request refund from Boatyball. YES * (maybe not)
5. Invite them for a drink. NO **
6. Have a drink yourself. YES

* Within twenty-four (24) hours of the start of the Reservation, all Reservations are non-refundable, regardless of your use or non-use of the reservation and regardless of any circumstance surrounding the use or non-use of a Reservation.

** If in response to #2, your new friend relocates, the response to #5 is YES

Good news for us sailors and Cooper Island's mooring ball situation.

I emailed the good folks down at the Cooper Island Beach Club, via their web site.

Not to worry, it will be normal procedures for us sailing folk as to mooring availability..

We have 40 moorings , first come , first served.

There is a PILOT PROGRAM , for advance pmt, and reservations, but only there are only SIX orange mooring balls at the far south end of the bay in the program. . A wonderful lady at the Cooper Island Beach Club answered me back in less tan one hour. She even sent a photo of what those six new Reserved Pay Ahead mooring balls look like. cannot miss them, they are nothing like 'more seacure' . The Res. balls are ORANGE with a sort of blue wavy band, and they have Reserved printed on the top end.

I hate to confess this, but once we finish up with our boat systems check out at Conch Charters, we are going see if we can work with the wind to sail from Road Harbor to Cooper, but, if not, we will roll in the jib, and use the main as a steadying sail, and crank on the Iron Jenny. We will be able to pick up a mooring, be all squared away, and the good times are on.

Now, , we now are going to spend two days at Cooper , before actually sailing from Cooper, up the Sir Francis Drake Channel to Leverick Bay, north sound, VG.

Thank you all for the heads up, and getting me off my okole. Life is good !

I was down in the BVI this week helping the BoatyBall guys get up and running. They got moorings installed in Leverick, Anegada, and Cooper and have had the app launched for about three days now. So far it seems like the system has been working pretty well. The Moorings and some other charter companies have been talking about the app and the moorings in their briefings. Apparently they’ve had quite a few boaters sign up and for the most part their moorings have been close to full each night. From what I saw at Cooper, they haven’t had any problems with people “stealing” reservations. A couple boaters tied off to the moorings but relocated once they realized they were reservation only. I think the guys know that there are going to be some stubborn captains who disregard the whole reservation thing, and they’ve been working with the mooring owners at each of the bays to combat that, but for the most part they’re relying on the good nature of most sailors to follow the system.

Six at Cooper and ten at Leverick Bay.
and Looks like five at Anegada. (did not see those yesterday)

I think the Boaty Ball guys are planning on installing two more at Cooper as well. It’s important to note that some of the moorings at Cooper (the ten on the far right side towards Salt island) are owned by a family and aren’t in a regular maintenance system with Moore Seacure. The BoatyBall team is partnered with Moore Seacure and all of their Balls are maintained and insured by Moore Seacure.

can someone point me to the location of an iPhone app, if there is one, or is simply done via their web site?

It’s done through their website. You can open the boater “app” through the website and then save it to your home screen and it will function similarly to a downloadable app from the App Store. I belive they did it this way to provide compatibility on various devices.

Looks fairly simple...and a win, win for us all..

For those who want to reserve one of the boatyball moorings, super, it will be waiting for you. The six at Cooper are far off to the south end of the mooring field. Some distance away from the dink dock area..

For the rest of us, we can get there early and pick up a moor seacure ball upon arrival. No change in our normal procedure. Cash to the collector .

For years, the mooring field at Coooper starts filling up by late afternoon. Plus, our general rule is to get in to an anchorage before 3 pm, I think the bare boat companies reg is around 4 pm . We like a little earlier as the situation demands.

We like better visibility to see any coral heads, and shallows , without the setting sun's reflection bouncing back to reduce visibility for our bow watch.

So, .no we have no need to hassel with any of that app, eelctronic device, pay ahead to reserve a ball. We have moor seacure balls just like we have had for 16 previous BVI bareboat sailing vacations. Good stuff.

Staying with the positive, with the tech advance now, the tech boaters can reserve a boaty ball mooring. That is good for us since it will provide a few more open moor secure balls for us, with other boats choosing the reserved balls.
That is good for everyone.

It is a win - win situation. And , those orange balls have RESERVED painted on them, and it is very evident.

In Cooper's mooring field, the reserved balls are way further to the south from the Beach Club, moor seacure's mooring balls, are as normal, out front, or closer in to the dink docks.

For those who enjoy a confrontation, without exposing themselves to physical harm, looks like you need to pick up a moor seacure ball that is in the south end, next to the orange boatyball moorings. If you want company, we can dink over and
bring the rum and join in some sea chantys. Harggghhhh.

What the heck, you can run up the black flag, roll out the cannon with the bio degradeable nasties, fire off a broadside at the two contesting boats, and prepare to be boarded. After windups on Peter Island, drove off the Willy T, why not
resurect the pirate life . Hargghhh mates, you are beginning a new tradition.

Well, maybe no nasties in the cannon, but a few loud reports from the muzzle should work just fine.

.

At anegada. Moorings 1 and 5 were reserved and occupied. 2 3 and 4 were vacant.

I might have reserved one of those.

2 of the vacant were occupied.

Had I paid for one of them I would have demanded they move.

Boatyball is responsive to emails.

Warren

I think this can be a tremendous positive, especially at Cooper Island which has been off my overnight itinerary for several years simply because I prefer to be sailing at 2 pm and not racing for the last mooring ball. I would return to overnighting at Cooper Island if I knew I had a mooring ball waiting for me with a close-to-sunset arrival.

I'm interested to hear of any experience with boaters encountering a squatter on their reserved mooring ball and how it gets resolved, especially if the squatter is ashore.

This just in...a close-up of their buoys, looks like there can't be much mistaking the reserved markings.....unless english is your second.

And they paid Barry from the lobster trap $30 to use the red boaty ball


So, if I made a stink about it, they would have said that they paid for the ball

I really don't understand all of the negativity towards this new start-up company! Let me stipulate to the fact that I hate moorings - cuz I remember the days when there were none. Well there were a few, here and there. But they were 'maintained' by the same guy who served you your Mount Gay and tonic, and if you had any brains you wouldn't even consider hooking up to them. The only exception was BEYC, who really did maintain their moorings, and as I recall, they were free.

Are you suggesting that the typical sailor is retarded and doesn't comprehend the words 'Reservation Only'? It's the same as a private mooring, right? And there are many of those all over the BVI. Would you even consider using them? When we had our private mooring in Soper's Hole, over the many years, there were only two or three interlopers. And they were mortified when we showed up.

Furthermore, isn't this EXACTLY what you electronic generation wants? It seems that this is precisely what you kids love (and by kids, I mean anyone under the age of 50 who are inexorably tied to your chart plotters, your tablets, your e-charts, and all of the other silliness that you use to 'navigate' around the BVI,) In my day we 'navigated' using a souvenir placemat, but it seems that you kids call for a chaseboat if your chartplotter takes a dive.

I predict that this idea will catch on, and that in a couple of years, MOST moorings will be available in this format. Why not? It's better than two idiots racing towards the last mooring ball in a crowded anchorage.

Three things, I think people are being negative because they see these Moorings taking over from good Moorings that currently don’t require a reservation. As far as private Moorings charter boats take them all the time if there is no other option. The last point that I suspect will become a reality and I once wrote a April fools spoof about it is that boatyball will sell out to one of the larger charter companies and their boats will get first shot at the balls. I give it three years before this happens. Money talks!

I think George is on the right track. When I started sailing in the BVI 50 years ago, I considered The Bight to be crowded if there were as many as six boats anchored there (usually in the northeast corner) because it was pretty deep to anchor elsewhere. Planning my itinerary more recently has been part trying to avoid peak days for popular anchorages (e.g., Tuesday/Wednesday at Anegada) and part giving up other daytime activities to insure I arrive early enough for a ball. What a blessing to be assured a ball regardless of arrival time. And as an econ major, why shouldn't the cost be tied to supply and demand? Ever tried to book a hotel room on a holiday weekend?

We want to first say that it has been very beneficial for us to see the responses and feedback on this thread. We are happy to answer questions that you have but I thought I would start our first post with going over the goals of this project. Goal number one was to create a solution that would allow boaters to spend more time on the water. Goal number two was to make it easy for boaters to know which moorings are maintained and insured. We were surprised to learn about the number of moorings that are not in a maintenance program and have not been checked since Irma. Our third goal was to simplify the payment process for the mooring ball owners and boaters. There are limited banks in the islands which makes handling cash both difficult and dangerous for mooring ball owners. The mooring ball owners asked for a simple way to collect payments that did not involve cash. These were some of our top objectives when we started this project to improve the overall experience.

We installed our first reservable moorings last Friday at Cooper and as of this morning there has been 56 reservations. We know we are going to have issues but as of this morning all 56 reservations were able to stay on the mooring they reserved. You might never use the service we are providing but we hope you would support what we are trying to do which is allow boaters to spend more time on the water and less time worrying about where they are going to stay the night. We look forward to your questions and feedback.

Thanks, looking forward to using the system in March....

What do you recommend boaters to do if their reserved mooring ball is taken?

This has happened one time that we are aware of and the boat moved once confronted. So the first thing would be to politely ask them to move. The moorings are clearly marked reservation only so anyone moored without a reservation should know that they are in the wrong. However, this is a new program and not every captain will look at the mooring after tying up. If the boat refuses to move or if there is no one on the boat then we recommend notifying the establishment that collects moorings fees. At Cooper Island Beach Club and Anegada Reef Hotel I would call or go to the bar. At Leverick I would call into the dock and notify them that another boat is on your reserved mooring. These moorings are private property and the owners have the right to ask them to leave. We believe these two steps will address most issues.

So basically you’re saying to
Drop
Anchor
Near
Or
In
Mooring field and make a complaint by taking your dinghy to shore and make a complaint.
Great this takes the problem out of your hands.
Another words
Leave it up to charter

What would you suggest?

[/quote]
Drop
Anchor
Near
Or
In
Mooring field and make a complaint by taking your dinghy to shore and make a complaint.
Great this takes the problem out of your hands.
Another words
Leave it up to charter
[/quote]

Maybe RADIO the bar/ dock?
Or drop dingy in water and send 2 crew (Most charter boats have 6-8 people on board).

This is NOT the first reserved balls in BVI. I reserved one at The Last Resort in Trellis bay on Fullmoon Party. Got to ours and it was poorly marked. But dingy came by and pointed out reserve status to several boats who were attempting to pick up vacant/reserved balls.

I say this might be answer in accomplishing the 2 stated goals. Give them a try. Hopefully it will work with minimal issues. Maybe some issues will have to be addressed.

IF there is a base manager, hopefully they will keep an eye on the boats on the reserved balls and ask them to move.

I am looking forward to trying the BoatyBall System on my next trip.

Our next trip is in late February.
Will submit experience report at that time.
Hopefully, will be a positive adventure.
Will still have plan B just in case.

KFQ

The moorings collectors in Trellis Bay actually do their jobs correctly.
Try calling a busy dock or restaurant and you’ll be floating around for an hour.

It’s not my business, I don’t know what resources they have.

Can we ask who actually owns boatyball and will they give assurances that they will never give priority access to a specific charter company?

Leverick says they own those balls.

The bay owners own the sea floor rights and Moore Seacure owns the actual mooring hardware. BoatyBall is a company that offers a booking service to make payment easier for the boater and collection easier for the bay owners and Moore Seacure.

Each bay has assigned a bay manager who has visibility on the app to who has made reservations. There is contact information for each mooring ball so you could call and ask for the person who manages the moorings balls if you have an issue. You could also radio in like Deepcut suggested. We have discussed back up plans with bay managers for boaters that might be impacted by difficult boaters. The contingency plans are different in each bay.

There are potential consequences for boaters that moor illegally. Some of the bays can call the police. These are private moorings and owners have the right to ask them to move. We have also spoken with the major charter companies who want their boats to have access to the app. If a charter boat is the issue then the charter company will be contacted to take care of the issue or else their boats will be banned from the app. This is something that would impact future charters and we believe is a big enough motivator for them to correct the issue. This is less of a motivator for captains that own their own boat but we do believe it will be a bigger deterrent if this app becomes more popular.

Finally, this is a pilot program and we launched it to get feedback. So we appreciate all the feedback both positive and negative. We know this will not be a solution for everyone. We originally set up the app to just be an easier way to pay for first come first serve moorings. However, the resort owners and boaters we spoke with encouraged us to see if we could implement a reservations program first because it would have the biggest impact on the region. If we are successful then boaters will be able to spend more time on the water, decrease the stress on the national parks, and remove the anxiety around finding a mooring.

BoatyBall was founded by two neighbors and friends whose families have been vacationing together for quite some time in the BVI. We found that we were spending less and less time on the water in order to find a mooring in some of our favorite bays. We partnered with Moor Seacure and a few resorts early on to give us feedback on the app. We also solicited input from several of the large charter companies. We made the app free and web based so everybody would have access to the app.

BoatyBall.com "Reservable" mooring balls have been added to the Anchorages page on the BVI Mariner site to help promote their use.

Seems to me they are doing all the right things for all the right reasons. Thanks - Mark

I was an early skeptic of the first post. Even accused it as an April fool joke.

But with these excellent explanations it does appear to make sense. More time on the water sailing, less worrying about finding a spot for the night - sounds like a good options.

And I love capitalism.

Are these new moorings or are they taking existing moorings and replacing the ball?

As of now they’re just replacing the mooring ball not installing new moorings.

If they prove popular I suspect you will start seeing ball conversions. I rarely know where I am going for the night until noon so I will hate to see balls switched over. As I mentioned before I also suspect at some point you will see a preferential booking system for one or more charter companies.
G

I hear the 'benefits' and reasoning behind this new venture. And clearly the intentions of the people behind this are good. But personally we still don't see any benefits to us as frequent charterers, only negatives.

As GeorgeC1 says...sometimes you don't know where you're headed for the night until later in the day. Yes, there is always a mad rush for balls at a certain time in the afternoon, but doesnt this app just kick the can further down the road? You will have people sitting on the app and booking balls the second that reservations for that day are available. So then instead of relaxing and enjoying being on Island Time you're sitting making sure you're on the app at the right time to book the next day's mooring...a bit like online check-in for a flight that doesnt have seat-allocations! 'Click, refresh...click, refresh...click, refresh...click, refresh...frantic typing'!

Balls have always been first-come-first-serve. This is no different...it just takes the battle for balls into 'app-world' and 24hrs earlier.

Also, we enjoy arriving in a mooring field and then selecting which ball we want, based on the prevailing conditions in that moment...sometimes you want more breeze, sometimes you're trying to tuck in out of the wind or swell. Sometimes there is a powercat filled with young hooligans partying and enjoying themselves...which is absolutely fine, of course, the islands are for everyone to enjoy...but we might choose to moor further away from them, if we're looking for a more peaceful spot for the afternoon/night.

With respect to Anegada, the depth is tight getting into the mooring field on a 48ft mono. We approach very carefully and then select whichever empty ball we can actually get to without grounding! If we have reserved and paid for a boatyball...and then find that it happens to be too shallow for us then we're stuffed. A map/picture on an app is not going to be enough for me to make that assessment.

I'm sure this will work for some people. Just saying, for us...it doesnt.

Just witnessed a drama with ball 6 at Cooper Island.

A Dream Yacht crewed charter Ava Isabella is refusing to vacate ball 6 despite someone else claiming that they have reserved the ball. Hotel is refusing to assist and have told the person who booked to contact Moor Secure

That did not take long!
G

Still lots of arguing going on, we are on ball 5 just behind them.

Should be simple to solve. Which boat has a reservation!
G

They have finally got the message and have vacated the ball

What a nice way to end the day..... Now there’s going to be be two grumpy groups ashore for drinks and dinner.

A CREWED charter would be last that I would expect to be a violator. Will be interested to see if Dream Yacht Charters has been briefing their crews/charters on this new development.

Hopefully, the Boatyball people will contact Dream Yacht Charters to encourage them to educate captains of all their boats.
These encounters are potentially hazardous. Someone could get hurt. There needs to be a better method of solving disputes.

KFQ

In my experience crewed boats are sometimes the worst violators of sailing etiquette. I suspect they feel under pressure to deliver the perfect guest experience and as a result push things to much.

George, that has definitely been my observation, too. Overnighting on day boat moorings, anchoring just feet from the reef so guests can snorkel off the back, helping guests hike on private islands where they know darn well they are not allowed. They want to deliver the “perfect” experience in the name of a big tip.

Well we all know BELONGERS have more say and if the crewed charter Capt is a belonger he might feel Entitled..... No more needed to be said

Bernard, thanks for the update. We were in contact with both Cooper and Dream Yacht Charters. We have had over 40 reservations in the last two nights and reports of two boats that did not want to vacate once confronted. Ultimately, both boats vacated. The moorings are clearly marked “Reservations Only” so people know they are in the wrong if they are moored without a reservation. We are working with the charter companies so they can educate their boaters before they go out. The more awareness the better. Every charter company we have spoken to supports what we are trying to do. They want their boaters moored to maintained moorings and they like the idea of boaters being able the plan their day. What they do fear is having their boats banned from the app. We definitely anticipated issues with trying to change behavior but for the most part we have been very pleased with the initial response.

Just as an aside, the yacht that was on the mooring ball, should not have been on any mooring as it is 62’ long. Have a look at https://www.dreamyachtcharter.com/crewed-charter/ava-isabella/

I agree. I have seen crewed charter captain do many irresponsible things, like anchoring ina mooring field on coral no less. I’ve seen DYC crew overnight on National Park mooring balls many times. Seems like the rules don’t apply to them.

Have been following this thread for days now. It seems to me that Boatyball is an answer to years of posters asking why there was no way to reserve a mooring. I have seen arguments over balls “reserved” with PFDs or dinghies, this way at least there is a clear message on the ball.

Question.... how is payment made? Is a credit card used? If so this would eliminate the need to carry all that cash.

Trueblue, that was one of their motivations: eliminate the cash on both ends of the transaction.

I see a lot of positives. Moorseacure knows what their tackle is designed to handle. If the captain has to say what kind of boat is reserving, then the app can decline a reservation from a boat which doesn’t conform, thus protecting Moorseacure’s property.

If heavier moorings, separated further apart are needed, then Boaty Ball can charge accordingly. Why should a 38’ mono pay the same as a 65’ cat, when far more of the former can be accommodated?

There can also be high and low season rates, or different rates for different days of the week.

If the boatyball moorings are all going to be new moorings and they don’t give preferential bookings to some charter companies I agree the concept is a good thing. I hope I am wrong but I strongly suspect in the future certain charter companies will be granted earlier booking windows than other companies. BoatyBall does not promise this won’t happen. Money talks, if the Moorings/Sunsail or Dream Yachts offers a monthly fee to get their boats priority it’s probably going to happen. The smaller companies won’t be able to afford it.

I agree the concept is good. I think it does open the door to a lot of potential issues - only time will tell if any of them come true. But charging extra during busy times or holidays..etc would be annoying. It's always been the same price regardless of time of year. They could also charge more as the number of balls available decrease..etc.. stuff like that would be a major turnoff from using it.

So does that mean you don't use Uber? I think it is just a matter of time before this moves to "demand pricing". If my crew really wants to spend extra time at the Dogs, they would probably agree to pay more for a ball at Leverick.

Doesn’t take Uber, airplanes or stay in hotels! That is the way of the world. Boating is just catching up.

Apparently the balls are very different, bright orange and clearly marked RESERVATION ONLY. The usual first come, first serve white balls have not changed.

Do I understand the reservation is ‘day of’, therefore need to stay up to midnight in order to get first shot at reservations?

This is a wonderful idea. We will be there in June and I can’t wait to use Boatyball!

You do have to stay up until midnight. I would prefer they use 9pm as most of the time I am not up that late.
G

If reserved ball is not available when I am drinking my morning coffee, I will plan differently.I will not be staying up to midnight to fight for a reservation.

Never used Uber. A mooring ball is like parking. Parking prices (that I'm aware of anyway) don't change by demand - they may change based on weekend or weekday but that is due to businesses causing more weekday traffic. So I guess if it was like parking, perhaps they'd have a busy season/low season. Although hopefully they don't go too far, since there is a very good reason to have mooring balls - to keep people from having to anchor. Better for the seabed to have mooring balls then anchoring. If pricing goes too crazy or changes too frequently, it will likely prompt more to just anchor in the places it is possible.

I think its also important to note that this is done in other areas. Dockwa for example. And while prices can vary, I don't believe they change on demand. There are set prices for days/times - maybe higher prices for holidays..etc. but a price for a specific date today will be the same the day prior too.

Overall, I like the idea - hopefully it remains as it is now with minor adjustments and they don't get greedy.. that's my only concern.

Another incident of a boat taking a reserved ball. It was at Leverick bay and was again a crewed boat. The crewed boat refused to vacate the ball this time.
G

I think the problem is who will enforce and what is the penalty for using a reserved mooring? If there is no penalty and no one enforces it, that will be a problem.

GeorgeC1,

More information would help us understand. What time did crewed yacht(I assume charter) arrive? All other balls taken? What company was crewed yacht(And was it same crewed yacht as before?)?
What time did rightful boat arrive? How was issue settled?

I think matrix hit the nail on the head. A reservation that you have to enforce yourself isn’t a reservation. If I have a reservation, I expect the ball to be empty and I pick it up hassle free when I arrive. I’ll throw it out there to say that if I have to pay a premium for a reservation which is enforced by an agent, then I am willing to do so. That allows me to spend more time sailing my charter vessel for which I have already paid $$$$.

If the ultimate goal is to provide a cashless option, without having an attendant, then instructions with a web address on the ball will be sufficient. However, I hope the reservation idea succeeds and if it takes a premium rate to make it happen, then I’m supportive of that too. What I am not on board with is having to enforce my own reservation.

Details from the person involved at Leverick.

Well, beware of the details of the reservation process and implementation..
I just arrived in Leverick Bay where a snooty, dismissive captain on Excelsior (5800) informed me that he bypassed the reservation I had for tonight on Mooring Ball #1 by talking with the Dockmaster (who was unreachable by telephone on my arrival.) Instead of having the pre-paid Boatyball mooring, I was informed to “find another mooring” on my arrival – a rather unprofessional response by the Captain, in my opinion. The dockmaster could not be reached through Leverick Bay by telephone. Despite having my phone number in the reservation, I was never notified of the change of my reservation.

George C1

That Sucks.

Begs the question of whether or not DockMaster told Excelsior captain could have mooring ball #1.

If so, there needs to be education of dock master. If not, then we have crewed captains who need to be educated (Or disciplined by their employer if they are not going to follow the rules.). So first issue with DYC crew. This one by The Moorings crew.

I agree that we as customers should not be the ones enforcing our reservation.

Also disheartening to see the "professionals" disregarding the rules... but I have to admit I have seen these "professionals" violating rules of other balls (such as commercial dive boat moorings).

Just to be clear I was not the person involved. The report came from a private forum and I reposted it with permission here. Boatyball responded already to correct the issue and the response has been sent to the person involved.
G

George

Thank you for the posting a scenario of what can happen on the Boatyball reservations. Please update us on what the ultimate outcome was this evening.

Sunny

The snooty Capt is an accurate description of the guy.

So where are their so-called harbor "managers" who are supposed to be monitoring the reserved balls?

This needs to be corrected, otherwise the entire concept is at risk. If your "reservation" is actually only a "maybe", you better plan on getting there early, just as before Boatyball.
I own a boat in the Moorings program. I would have called the Moorings base and suggested that they call their captain and give him/her appropriate instructions.

Kevin

George, thank you for the update. This group is a great source of insight and information for us at BoatyBall. We contacted the owners at Leverick last night and they will be discussing the protocol with the guys on the dock. It is disappointing to hear about the behavior of the crew an Excelsior. This has been reported to the head of operations at The Moorings. We have found the charter companies to be very responsive when we contact them with concerns. If anyone in this group witnesses any issues and supports what we are trying to accomplish then please feel free to contact us directly at info@boatyball.com. It is really helpful if you can provide the boat name and charter company when reporting an issue.

Maybe you can somehow implement a fine of $500.00 for unauthorized use of the mooring.

These problems seem like growing pains. I think the reservation system is a great idea and will take hold. We are down January 26 and plan to use it.

I agree. It is also encouraging to see Boatyball take such an active approach and participate here as well. I at this early stage, people will see what they can get away with. If nothing happened, then they'd do it again. But if the charter companies address it with captains and discourage it, then they'll probably stop doing it. Hopefully they too just learn to use the app or anchor like the captained boats often do anyway.

First off, I like the concept but already there are two times of problems. Another issue I see could happen so I’m asking how would this be dealt with? You reserve a ball BUT someone else grabs it say at Leverick and leaves their boat, rents a Jeep, spends all day and evening ashore and doesn’t return to boat til dark. So there’s no one to even tell to move. As the person who reserved the ball and the place is full when you arrive,,, so then what? My question concerns at any place you reserve a ball, what happens when your ball has been taken and the guilty crew doesn’t return to their boat til dark? Banning them for life doesn’t get you a mooring ball that day. We’ve been coming down for 8 years now and I’ve seen too many nastycaptains either race for the last ball or drop anchor way too close to a moored boat and refuse to move. Til this system is fool proof, I’ll continue to arrive early enough to get a ball.

It’s like any new business, You plan it the best you can. You put it into operation and then you adjust it to fit the reality.

I think jagmansr raises a question that I’ve been wondering as well. How do you get violators to move their boat when they’re gone for the day/evening? It seems like the only sure way to ensure success of this program is to have the reserved balls monitored and checked/enforced when boaters arrive. I think Boatyball is a great idea and will see many reservations as long as it is found to be worth it and hassle-free. Why not create a few jobs for the locals and hire Boatyball attendants?

At what cost?

Boatyball have successfully identified an issue/problem for many sailors in the BVI, i.e. the fact that if you want to be guaranteed a mooring ball then you may have to adjust your end-of-day timings to be sure of getting one. Some sailors don’t want to adjust their timings…therefore problem.

Problem = opportunity & market

Problem + solution = profit

However, as I see it, they have not yet identified a genuine solution!

1.) As has been proven so far, there will always be an element that don’t follow the rules. So booking a ball doesn’t mean you get one. Come dusk…you may well be buggered if you don’t know how to use that sharp heavy thing attached to the chain at the pointy end.
a. Boat already on your ball won’t move…what next? Are you going to fight them?! So far it sounds like the ‘mooring managers’ are useless. On this thread alone (and we have seen it ourselves with other firms) it has been reported that Horizon Yacht Charter Captains will happily remain on national park moorings overnight…which is illegal and carries a fine. If that doesn’t stop them doing it…then what do Boatyball expect to do about them using their balls?
b. Boat on ball has gone ashore (maybe tactically timed) what next? Cut them loose?!

2.) Mooring balls have ALWAYS been first come first serve. Moorings with Boatyball are STILL first come first serve…the clock just begins at midnight the night before rather than mid-afternoon on the day. And that is assuming your reservation leads to you getting a ball…and some other Captain hasn’t snagged your ball / done a deal with the dockmaster / refuses to move.

3.) In the case of Anegada, some balls don’t have the depth for larger monohulls. Our experience is you choose a ball depending on what you can get to. When you get close to zero you hit reverse! What if you have reserved and pain for a ball you then find is too shallow for you?

4.) You arrive with a reservation into a nearly empty mooring field…the ball next to the one you have reserved and paid for is occupied by a 62 ft cat. Which clearly is too big for the mooring and may jeopardise the safety of your vessel in the night. What next? This thread alone has a report of such a vessel being on a Boatyball mooring. Does this mean they are not vetting which vessels are allowed to use them?

5.) You arrive with a reservation into a nearly empty mooring field…the ball next to the one you have reserved and paid for is occupied by a boat filled with fun-loving young hooligans playing loud music at all hours. You have no issue with them having their fun, but might otherwise have chosen a different ball…but, its already booked and paid for, so you’re stuck.

If the biggest aggro or hassle you encounter when sailing in the BVI is worrying about getting a ball at the end of the day, then you’re having a pretty good day. If however as a result of Boatyball your day begins at Midnight to reserve a ball and ends with a fight with some idiot captain who won’t vacate the ball you reserved then…suddenly you’re having a bad day.

This is the BVI, not London. We don’t need Uber, we don’t need a bigger runway, we don’t need more resorts, we don’t need more cruise-ships and we don’t need Boatyball.

And yes…this view stands in the way of capitalism and ‘progress’…but hell, that’s why we come to the BVI in the first place! To get away from all these things in our own frantic, hectic, over-developed, over-commercialised, over-cookied, non-stop lives!

...just our opinion!

Just exchanged text messages with a friend, who is at Cooper this evening with his crew. I had explained 'boatyball' to him several days ago and he opened an account. He signed-on at midnight last night while at the Bight on Norman, finding immediately four of the eight had beat him to the site. He reserved the fifth of the eight balls and arrived at Cooper this afternoon at about 3:00 pm. They found someone on the ball, although they were simply hoping nothing would happen (they did not have a reservation, and perhaps had no idea how to get one). They moved their boat without incident, once my friend explained they had a reservation for the ball.

You’re correct, the problem lies with and Ski mentality who disregard the rules

"And yes…this view stands in the way of capitalism and ‘progress’…but hell, that’s why we come to the BVI in the first place! To get away from all these things in our own frantic, hectic, over-developed, over-commercialised, over-cookied, non-stop lives!"

That's exactly how we feel! We like to turn our phones off and just enjoy the disconnect!!

I think the solution is genuine. Like anything though, it does take time before it will work without issue. Dockwa is used in the states and works well. The only significant difference that I'm aware of is that all the balls in the areas where dockwa is used are reservation only. And it also differs in that reservations are not just 24 hours in advance. I think once it is clear that the reserved balls will be enforced, the program will work well. Maybe all it will really take is a strong partnership with the charter companies so they can help ensure guests and captains don't use reserved balls without a reservation.

Main problem is there seems to be zero enforcement with anything in the BVI. Overnighting on NPT moorings..etc..etc.

I just don’t like the reserve after midnight thing. I see no reason why they can’t take reservations up to 30 days in advance. I can do that with most restaurants, why not Boatyball.

As for confrontations, man I am on vacation. I don’t want to argue with someone over a mooring ball. Hopefully time will fix issues. But as said earlier, how do you handle when the entire boat is ashore for the day?

All in all I like the concept. Just will require some tweaking over time.

BoatyBall

Thanks for being reactive to this group. I think many are just articulating circumstances they foresee/ have already seen. I believe many of these were anticipated by you and to what extent, we shall see.

I commend you for discussing with the various charter companies.

In regards to how long in advance reservations should be allowed, too far out and circumstances/weather may cause changes where balls are reserved but not used. I could also see those with no concern about $ reserving multiple balls in various anchorages.

Once reservations are made, can they be canceled/released?(especially if more than 24 hours reservation was allowed)

I have no plans to set alarm for midnight to be able to be first in line... If none available with my morning coffee, then I shall use FCFS. But if reservations opened at 6pm day before, I could foresee this altering dinner reservations and happy hours, and I don't think that would be good either.

Keep working on solutions! I think you are approaching this correctly.

While certainly as charter companies educating our guests will be helpful. But at the end of the day a small percentage of guests who are to good for the rules will be the problem children. In almost any part of the world with any kind of system for moorings with reservations there is ultimately a human being in charge of it. A harbormaster if you will.

Cooper will be an issue unless this is closely monitored. It is an increasingly popular spot with little to no room to safely anchor. The idea of being able to show up at four in the afternoon with a guaranteed spot is very appealing. Making an intoxicated absent captain vacate your reserved mooring will be difficult if not legally impossible. Cooper is unique because of the depth and bottom conditions. Frankly telling guests to pick up a ball by 2:00 in the afternoon has never set well withe me as it limits your sailing time. But in the busy season this is exactly the advice we give so the guests have time for plan B. It might actually be a better system if all of Coopers Moorings where run by a dock master/reservation. Either by the app or old school. Get in radio range call the harbor master give them the details and get assigned a ball. At least then you would know five or ten miles out if you have a spot. If not that gives you plenty of time to do something else.

Rules without enforcement are just recommendations.

Cooper was full before 2pm yesterday.

The threat to ban someone from boatieball is not much of a threat anyway.

Fines won't work, by what authority.

Given the number of balls at Cooper, Jay is spot on. A human has to run the harbor. Either fcfs or make the reservations knowing that there is human oversight

Actually instead of using the word “Fine” you could say it’s the price of an unreserved ball.

We’re sitting in Great Harbor Jost for the Old Year end party. We’ve watched a couple of locals “reserve” balls for boats using dinghys and sailboards, one had a board on it for 3 days. Don’t know if they were paying for the mooring or not. I’m not a fan of any reservation system but like even less that people that know people are able to do this.... especially since we don’t know anybody 🙂. So Boatyball is better than this.

We live aboard now and don’t spend that much time in the BVI and don’t pick up a mooring that often but I do hope they leave most balls at FCFS.

We appreciate boaters desire to disconnect while in the BVI. It is one of the reason we fell in love with it years ago. We know this is not a solution for everyone and we are not forcing it on anyone. We understand why boaters would not want to use the app. We also understand that for an experienced boater this might not have the same value as it would for a less experienced boater who is not comfortable anchoring. I would like to share some of the things we have learned in the last 10 days during this pilot.

1. There is a large number of boaters who want the ability to reserve mooring balls in the BVI.
2. Without enforcement at the local bay the system falls apart
3. The overwhelming majority of boaters have respected the rules
4. Charter companies support the program and will take action towards captains when made aware of bad behavior
5. The web based app is working as designed with no technical issues
6. The app has been intuitive for most users
7. Many boaters want a first come first serve option
8. The 11 am check out and 2 pm check in time has caused confusion
9. With same day reservations we have had limited requests for cancellations

I think I'd like the idea, if we all made reservations online. I'd much rather spend more time sailing and not have to worry about it as the sun starts sinking. Anyhoo, I took a look and it appears that, for every ball they have, you can only make same-day reservations. So, I guess now there's some kinda midnight scramble to make a reservation?

Either way, our first charter trip in the BVIs (we did a training trip there, once) is coming up next week and we are getting very excited!

I’m also thinking that a given mooring field, say Cooper, should be all Boatyball, no FCFS. That way, if there’s no room at the inn, you choose another location. It avoids the problem of people showing up, finding the unreserved balls full, and squatting on someone else’s reserved ball.

The balls at Cooper are used for many purposes. We often drop in for just lunch. We also go in and out several times a day swapping tanks. If they make all the balls reserved only they will not see my business.
On the subject of reservations. I do think it should be moved up to 9 PM the night before. No one wants to stay up till midnight. I don’t think it’s a good idea to make the reservations more than a day in advance. To many things can happen to cause no shows if booked well ahead. That will result in balls sitting empty.
The last thing that concerns me is priority given to specific companies. I really appreciate the effort the boatyball owners are putting into addressing issues. They have been extremely responsive except on this point even when I directly asked the question. Look for some charter companies to get priority in the not to distant future.
G

From the BVI Community Board 30 min. ago:
I did not realize that you were able to raft up together on a single morning ball down here in the BVI’s. I have seen this for the first time in Norman Island and now here in Levrick Bay tonight on the new “BoatyBall” reserves mooring balls. If this is the case, you can split the mooring fee:)

We’re the rafted boats flying the flag of Puerto Rico?

No idea, and not sure why it matters.

Rafting is common during regattas however the sailers involved are usually skilled at doing it correctly and in settled weather only.
G

I’ve used this twice this week and it’s pretty cool; first at Coopers island on 12/30 and again at Leverick bay on 1/1 (tonight).

The good: I know I have a ball that I’ve already paid for so I can take my time getting to the harbor. The payment is electronic so I don’t have to carry cash.

The bad: it’s a bit like buying concert tickets. You have to get online at midnight to get the balls. Most seem to be gone within a few minutes. Coopers’ balls were gone within seconds.

Also, at Leverick, someone took “my ball” when I moved over to the dock for fuel and water. But they moved to another ball when we explained that we had already paid for the ball. Most people don’t seem to know about it.

Here’s the text of the email you get after booking.

————————

Reservation Confirmation

Hi TVS, you have successfully booked a mooring ball. Please see details below.
Reservation
Dates: 2019 Jan 01 - 2019 Jan 02
Check in: 2 PM
Checkout: 11 AM
Price: $35.00
Payment method: MASTERCARD ****1234
Mooring ball
Location: BVI/Leverick Bay Resort Moorings
Ball number: 8
Coordinates: 18.498604, -64.388041
Mooring ball owner
Name: Leverick Bay Resort
Phone number: +12844957250
Email: becky@leverickbay.com
View Reservation
Follow Us:
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instagram

Contact Us: info@boatyball.com
© 2018 BoatyBall.com

So if checkout is 11am and check in 2pm, does that mean the balls can be used between 11 and 2 free of charge? Like for a lunch stop?

That was the intention but I think it’s been causing some complications. Boaters who have reserved moorings but show up before 2 o’clock to find someone on their ball have gotten frustrated and some people who who stay on the moorings during this time have been uncooperative when it comes time to leave. I think the BoatyBall guys were considering a switch to a fixed check in/check out at 12 or something but I’m sure they would love some input

Rafting is prohibited. This is a safety issue. The current BoatyBall moorings have a maximum weight of 20 tons and maximum length of 60 feet. The mooring fields are spaced out to keep boats from colliding. Rafting can damage the hardware and cause collisions. We appreciate your help in keeping the moorings safe for everyone.

Alec is correct. We are considering changing the 11 am check out and 2 pm check in time because it has caused confusion. We are looking to make a number of other changes based off of feedback that we have received during this pilot phase. One is reservation time. Regardless of the time we select we will not be able to please everyone but keeping boaters up to midnight to make reservations was never our intention. Another change we are considering is a mandatory check in time. If a boat does not moor up by a specific time they would lose their reservation. These are all recommendations that boaters on this thread have recommended and we appreciate the feedback.

Changing the reservation time and a mandatory checkin time would be excellent enhancements.

George

Doesn't that somewhat nullify the whole reason behind your service?

Just got back from a week in the BVI and used Boatyball twice-Once for Christmas day on Anegada and then on a repeat visit to Cooper at the end of the trip-Great experience both times and it was nice to know that we didn't have to rush to get a mooring and could enjoy where we were and not worry about rushing to get to where we needed to be.

Narwhal

Adding a mandatory check-in time is a good enhancement, which would benefit the charter companies. Last night I sat outside watching a half dozen boats, all sailing cats under power, come in looking for (unavailable) moorings after sunset. I would have photographed them, but it was too dark. I have never seen it this bad, and I don’t know the reason. It’s not safe for anyone involved, and it’s risky for the boats.

Which mooring field was this?

What would be a good mandatory check in though? Because I may want to reserve a ball so I can show up just before sunset. If the mandatory time was sunset or even an hour ahead of time, that wouldn't be good either because who else would be able to use the ball at that point anyway? Make it early enough so someone else could make use of the ball and then the whole purpose of it is defeated.

The Yacht Week has been sailing the BVI. Could explain the boats rafted together on a mooring ball. I have definitely seen The Yacht Week do this in the past.

I think the Moor Seacure piece of paper we sign has always prohibited rafting up.

I reserved #7 at Leverick Bay yesterday. Arrived to find abandoned 50’ cat on it. Dock guy said to take #6 then another car with several large guys kindly said they had it reserved. Marina made things right but told me to send complaint letter to their boss. Said it happens about every day.

But it’s all good in the islands. I made pain killers then sent crew to swim over at 3 am and cut their mooring lines. Not really, but if anyone sees Wonder Boy charter boat, give him a piece of my mind.

We’ll try again for Anagada tonight. Unless

I think Capt. D has just experienced the reality of "Boaty Ball" and the frustration that can ensue. In the past if we were having a good time and decided to stay another night somewhere then we just stayed put and paid the mooring fee again. Didn't have to stay up and try to reserve it and frankly didn't have to give it another thought. What if someone reserves for the next day right out from under you and now you have to leave???? It sounds good on the surface with a guaranteed mooring but what about the days of "deciding on a whim"? If you wanted to guarantee you a spot somewhere then you had to get your tail up and get over there.

So for Capt. D there was a boat on his mooring and nobody onboard. But what if they were on it? What if they simply say "I'm not moving" or "My crew isn't onboard with me" or whatever? Do you just hover around in the mooring field trying to find out what to do? Do the crews square off and just show a battle of wills? Is there someone monitoring and preventing boats from taking the moorings incorrectly? So much room for error....

Capt. D, I'm curious to know how the marina made things right? Did they make one of the boats that didn't have a reservation get off the Boaty Ball's mooring? Were there other moorings still available in the field or did someone end up spending the night on the dock?

You raise the pirate flag!

Wonder Boy or Wonder Boat?

Seems like the one constant in the issues with reserved balls are crewed boats.
G

And the absence of the so-called harbour managers who are supposed to be monitoring this.

While this seemed like a good idea on the surface, we are seeing the problems that result from this type of system. I guess time will tell if these things work themselves out as people get more familiar with the 'system', but it seems there will still be those that just don't care to follow the 'rules' and will cause problems for everyone.

On the surface this seems like a very good idea, with two (at least) fundamental problems: squatters and not being able to spontaneously decide to stay an additional night on your mooring. As for the latter issue, I don't know how to solve that one, other than, if you think you might want to stay another night, don't use a BoatyBall mooring.

As for squatters, I don't think it's realistic to expect harbour managers to be able to prevent bad behavior. So, I suggest implementing a fine system. The harbour manager can report the squatter boat to BoatyBall, who then fines the charter company $100, which they charge against the charterer's deposit. Rental car companies essentially do the same thing if you get a parking ticket in their car. Of course, the charter companies would have to be on board [no pun intended :-)] with this and warn charterers in their briefing. This wouldn't solve the problem that evening if somebody squats, but I imagine it would do a lot to prevent it.

If these squatters have not paid thru BoatyBall, who is collecting the mooring fee?
New sign on BoatyBall mooring....
<<< $35 night with reservation (paid online), $70 night w/o reservation. >>>

Or Carol can create a new forum... The BoatyBall forum of Shame. Pics of the violators to be downloaded!

I don’t see it being an issue if I want to spontaneously stay another night in the same harbor after reserving a Boatyball the first night. Unless it’s a NYE or Full Moon event, then there should be plenty of other balls open up in the morning for me to move the boat. So the situation presents a solution. Having folks that respect the BB reservation system and having folks to enforce it is the same as all of the other discussion points. But I personally wouldn’t use my last-minute decision to stay as an excuse on why I shouldn’t pull in the lines and move over to one of the other vacant balls.

Haven’t posted here in a while but I’m compelled to report a Boatyball fail for us today at Anegada. I was excited about this idea at first, but after getting up at 6:30 this morning to reserve a mooring only to find someone on it with no signs of leaving, I’m pretty pissed off right now. Plus we’re out $35.

Consider yourselves forwarned!

Charge it back

This is another argument for fining the squatter through their charter company. Otherwise, in this situation the squatter gets a free mooring, BoatyBall is out the $35 after the appropriate and inevitable chargeback, and the reservation holder has a frustrating experience.

BoatyBall will likely not survive if this keeps up.

What time did you arrive on your ball?

I would imagine that the time he arrived at the mooring would be irrelevant because he has paid an overnight fee.

FYI
Per the Boatyball website, "Reservations only moorings have a check in and out time. As a boater, you can reserve a mooring for that day from 7:00 am until 12:00 am (midnight). Check in and check out times for a reservable ball are 12:00 pm (noon)." "Update: please note that the time you can start to reserve the balls, check in and checkout times have changed as of Jan 18, 2019."

Because if he got there before his check in time (noon) the boat from the previous night could still be on the mooring.

Based off of feedback we did recently change the check in and check out times to noon. We also change the time that moorings become available for reservation to 7 am. We are continuing to make changes to improve the boaters overall experience. However, the number of reported issues has drastically been reduced over the past three weeks as more and more boaters are aware of the program. We did have an issue with a squatter the other night in Anegada that caused us some issues. We did communicate with the boat owner who was not on the boat but apologized for what happened. We are wrapping up the pilot phase of the app and we will be making some changes on Friday that we believe will help with enforcement. We appreciate the early adopters of BoatyBall and everyone that has provided us feedback to help us improve the app. Thanks to many of you we are much further along today then we were 6 weeks ago when we launched this new service.

Followup to my post yesterday: We arrived at the mooring around 2:00 p.m. All moorings taken and anchorage more packed than we've ever seen. As no one was on the boat on our mooring, we had no choice but to anchor far out. I probably should have just let it go but I was really pissed off. So we did manage to track to down the captain outside Anegada Reef Hotel around 5:00 p.m. and it was a local captain. He proceeded to talk in circles and act like he didn't understand what was happening but I don't really believe that. Although perhaps if the system is only six weeks old, it could be true. In the end he paid me $35, probably because he was worried we'd embarrass him in front of his guests, as they were booked for dinner. I should also note that Anegada Reef would have kicked them off for us, and the captain did offer to leave the ball when we talked to him around 5:00, but at that point we were already anchored and one Smoothie in so it was pointless by then.

So I'm less pissed off this morning (Anegada!) and I appreciate Boatyball chiming in here. We did successfully reserve a mooring at Cooper last week.

Same theme over and over. Crewed boats!
G

It was entertaining to watch the negotiations between two squatters and "owners" of the reserveable moorings last week at Leverick Bay.

Tried reserving a ball at Cooper Jan 25th at 7:01 am but all of the the balls were already taken. Lesson learned, hit that reserve button at 7:00 am, not 7:01 for Cooper on a Friday.

Soon you’ll have TSA inspections before allowed on a mooring

What is frustrating to me is that if you were at Anegada a year ago at this time it would have all been a non-event. You would have gotten up early, went to Anegada, and got what was available. Nobody to blame....what's there is there. It's just not adding up for me. Getting online at 7am but 7:01am is too late? LOL. I typically regard BVI as the land of loose schedules.....this seems counter to that.

Then don't use the boatyball system. There are still first come first serve balls available

It’s almost to the point where people can’t live without schedules

The problem with this is I suspect you will see current balls converted to the reservation system. So far the problem with taking a reserved ball seems 100% crewed boats or local skippers.
G

Next will be dynamic pricing like the hot lanes in DC...

For some reason Cooper, Leverick and Anegada are more packed than I have ever seen. It was a race from North Sound to Anegada with 15 boats underway at 10am. Boatyball is not the problem it’s too many boats in general in the available anchorages. The Bight was empty last night.

Well, if the Willie T were back at the bight, and Saba and bitter end open, occupancy would be better balanced.

Agreed. We were at Cooper before noon on Sunday and every ball except the reserved ones were taken. As we approached we saw two boats passing through the mooring field looking for a ball and coming up empty. As you said, Boatyball is not the problem... it is the crowds, a significant loss of balls in NS, and Norman being under utilized.

Your 100% correct, to many boats.
Now that the economy is starting to soar the sails of boats are on the rise..
The hurricanes have given us a look into the future where there will be just to many boats to anchor

Boatyball

Can ypu please clarify if you talking about 20 tons of weight/displacement or registered tonnage, which is a measure of volume?

Thanks

Carlos
s/v La Morocha

Received this email from the BoatyBall folks this morning. Anyone know what the "new" fee is?

"We wanted to thank you for being an early adopter of BoatyBall. We have taken your feedback and made a number of changes to improve the overall experience. During this 6 week pilot phase we have had over 900 boater accounts and over 900 reservations. Our number one request is to be able to reserve in advance and the biggest issue is boaters squatting. We are currently working on giving boaters the ability to make future reservations. We will also be introducing a number of changes that we believe will help with enforcement. One is giving boaters the ability to make their boat name visible in the app. This will allow other boaters the ability to see what boats have reserved moorings. In addition, we will also be increasing the BoatyBall service fee starting 2/1/2019 to help support enforcement in the bays. The initial adoption of BoatyBall has been very encouraging and has allowed us to continue to develop the app. We appreciate your willingness to try this new service and we look forward to continuing to update and improve the app. Cheers, from the BoatyBall Team"

It is $40 up from $35.

I am curious how they will increase enforcement.

I also wonder how elastic demand is.

Nothing wrong with using the hook on the bow, it’s free.

I know that there is no space at cooper to anchor, but there is at north sound and elsewhere.

This is all good. One issue was remote anchorages dealing with cash (there is no bank on Virgin Gorda); BoatyBall solves that. Enforcement costs money, in the form of staff on hand; extra revenue helps there. Boaters had to plan their day around arriving early at anchorages; now they can reserve. Yes, fees will go up during peak periods, but that’s due to a shortage of good spots for moorings. As Warren posits, maybe they will decrease during slack times.

Some of the pressure on Anegada is about people wanting that old BVI experience, without cruise ship hordes. The Tortola anchorages - Sopers, Trellis, CGB - don’t seem as popular anymore. Maybe some of that will change as they get cleaned up and rebuilt. Another factor may be that boats are so much larger: twenty 60’ cats take up more space than twenty 30’ monos. In my opinion, space is the real issue here, and there’s nothing BoatyBall can do about that, except make more remote bays viable as paid anchorages.

It still doesn't address the fact that most of the squatters are private crewed boats who don't even know about Boatyball, or don't care. The increased fee can't help support something that doesn't exist.

Another idea: charge more for bigger boats, on the basis that fewer of them fit in a given area.

A mooring field is a mooring field. If there are 40 balls, it should be able to fit 40 boats, regardless of their size.

Next will be dynamic pricing...higher pricing in busy season or at busy times.

Glad they pointed out "enforcement" as now they are clearly on the hook for enforcement

To be fair when the moorings were installed the primary charter boats in the BVI were 50’ monohulls. The moorings were designed to provide adequate sway with boats up to 60’ but with the added tonnage and beam of most modern cruising cats, there isn’t as much clearance as there was before.

Actually they were monohulls a lot smaller than 50’.

In any case, I would be surprised if the position of the hardware is the same as it was back then.

The moorings, chains, etc. have all been updated but in most cases the actual sea floor screws haven’t been. It’s pretty expensive and time consuming to install new sea screws and I doubt most bay owners would want to pay for it.

I’ve seen Moorsecure install new screws it’s done right from the their boat with a machine that drills the screws into the seabed

Is anyone familiar with the depths at the boaty ball moorings at Anegada?

What drat are you looking for?

I emailed them with that question. Here is the reply:

"All of our moorings are installed and maintained by Moor Seacure. At Anegada the BoatyBall moorings are on that first row and should have at least a minimum depth of 8feet. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. Cheers. "

Good info, thanks TWB. Would love to hear some first-hand info from people who have used them to confirm this...I'm not sure I believe that number. I don't recall having more than a few inches under the keel of the Sunsail 47 on any mooring in the Anegada field in the last 5 years...draft on the 47 according to spec-sheet is: 1.65m/5ft 5in.

If reports of crowded mooring fields on this forum continue, along with this Boatyball nonsense...with the exception of Cooper I think we're looking forward to saving some $ and using the hook-thing up at the pointy-end for the majority of places this year. Pomato Point has always been fab holding in the past.

Am I the only one wondering why Cooper Island doesn’t raise their rates, at least in high season? Boaters may not appreciate this, but where demand exceeds supply, why not? I’d make all the moorings BoatyBall and raise the price to $50. Those who don’t want to pay the price will skip Cooper, and everyone else will have a guaranteed mooring. Who can’t use more revenue these days?

The point of mooring balls is supposed to be about preserving the sea floor. The costs should be what is required to maintain the balls. Raise the costs and more people anchor. Another issue at Cooper is on occasion it’s not suitable for overnights due to weather. People with a expensive reservation may make a poor choice.
G

The depth has always concerned me at Anegada which prompted my inquiry. My boat's draft according to the manufacturer is 6'4." I've always used the out side moorings on the front two rows and have about a foot under the keel. Even though I've been told that any of the first two rows would be OK, I haven't tried them. If I can't get the outside ones, I anchor.

My next visit is on the 15th and I expect to anchor quite a bit this trip.

Keep in mind the BVI does have tides. Very small but can be 1 foot and that makes a difference in some anchorages. A foot under your keel at high tide might be zero at low tide.

Just got back from a 7 night charter in the BVI's. We used BoatyBall in Cooper, Leverick and Anegada. While getting up before 7am and refreshing the page to jump on a ball as soon as they become available was a bit reminiscent of buying TicketMaster concert tickets, the peace of mind knowing there should be a ball waiting for us gave us more time to enjoy getting there. We had no issues with squatters. The additional $5-10 was worth it to have a guaranteed ball.

What was the depth under the balls at Anegada?

[/quote]

According to the manufacturer is 6'4." I've always used the out side moorings on the front two rows and have about a foot under the keel. Even though I've been told that any of the first two rows would be OK, I haven't tried them. If I can't get the outside ones, I anchor.

My next visit is on the 15th and I expect to anchor quite a bit this trip.

[/quote]

I do the same thing in Anegada as I have hit the bottom twice on monohulls when I tried to head north up the rows of balls. If I cant get an outer ball I always drop the hook. Its easy to anchor there and we have never dragged even once.

I never thought we’d be THOSE people that used Boaty Ball, but this morning I successfully reserved one at Cooper. We want to backtrack from Peter to snorkel the Indians and the caves at Norman before mooring and don’t want to risk not having a ball for the night.

At 7:01, all were gone. But, at 7:04 2 opened up (because they give you 4 mins to pay for it). Then those were gone again immediately. By 7:05, all the balls but 2 in Leverick were gone. Just amazing.

Hope we find our ball free of another boat when we arrive early afternoon.

I still have very mixed feelings about this service.

I have mixed feelings as well. But given the challenges at Cooper and the demand they might as well make them all reservation only. At least then guests would know they have a place to go when they get there and could make other plans accordingly. Most people are not and should not be comfortable anchoring there. The show up way to early and sit all day doesn't work well. They show up late and hope is not really a good plan either as it can take an hour to get someplace else if it doesn't work out.

Dynamic pricing is likely next in a place like that with more demand than supply.

Jay

Dynamic pricing in a spot like Cooper will not solve anything and be just an outright money grab on the part of Boatyball since the moorings are all scooped up in a few minutes each morning.
Dynamic pricing works in a place like London or NYC to deter traffic in prime rush hours and is meant to solve a fluid problem, not a fixed supply and demand problem. When applied to a parking situation with fixed supply supply it doesn't deter parking it just makes it more expensive. No mixed feelings on my part about tactics that just make the BVI more expensive.

I predict you will see further price increases however it won’t be the big issue. I see certain charter companies receiving priority in booking the balls. I directly asked boatyball for assurances this would not happen and they would not commit to that. Book a charter with the Moorings and you might be allowed to reserve a ball at 6 pm the night prior but all others 7am the next morning. I hope I am wrong but as the saying goes follow the money!

Should a person operating a boat wish to arrive late afternoon, and wishes to reserve a boaty ball at midnight. Gof for it.

But , be prepared to go to plan B.

We have also witnessed boats laying to NP moorings over night and that is pure disrespect. What happens with boaty ball. Those moorings have RESERVED painted on the ball.

What part of RESERVED is difficult to understand.

So, reserve that boaty ball mooring, but have a plan B. Or, if possible, get the boaty ball rep out to the mooring and have them add their horse power to the situation.

Do not cut them loose in the dead of night, since that vessel adrift can cause damage to other innocent vessels, put that bare boat chartered vessel on the rocks, and it is not the owner of that boat who is the problem.

.

I agree that pricing won't be the issue. Most catamarans are are $1K ++ a night to rent. People wishing to travel during peak season pay comparable prices for airfare. The price of a mooring is irrelevant compared to the primary cost drivers of the vacation which are the vessel and airfare, with provisions/dining coming in third before mooring fees. Yes, all boats are equipped with anchors (or pointy things at the bow as described by the more salty and unforgiving forum members) but let's face it, I don't want to anchor on vacation. That's right, it's vacation. I have one week a year to enjoy in the Caribbean. I don't want to spend the evenings of that one week wondering if my anchor will hold. I can do that during summers at home from the comfort of my own sailboat. Yes, I own a sailboat but still don't want to anchor on vacation. I want to tie up, relax, enjoy sun-downers and dinner, and not think about whether or not I'm dragging. And while I could easily pass each day sitting on a beach, the Captain would prefer to spend more time at sail. Boaty Ball provides an answer to this - more time at sail without having to worry about anchoring. And I can be guaranteed a mooring in a location with a restaurant. (Did I mention I'm the one who arranges the vacations?)

Charterers who are confident and content with anchoring shouldn't be concerned at all with BoatyBall, since they have the pointy things at the bow of their boats that they can deploy at their pleasure. However I will throw in my support for the mooring reservation model since it will enhance the experience for my husband and I.

And when monopoly pricing pushes the price or boatyball to $100 per night, will you still feel the same way?

Unforgiving and salty? Well, I've been called worse over the journey!

But to be clear, the official unforgiving and salty terminology (or UST for short) is 'sharp hook thing at the pointy end'.

Pointy end - bow
Sharp hook thing - anchor
Blunt end - stern
Anti-scratch balloons - fenders
Nautical pitchfork - thing for hooking hideous 'Boatyball'
String - stuff to attach boat to hideous 'Boatyball'

No I will be in Culebra on my anchor having cheap lobster at the Dinghy Dock.

Jay

💤💤💤

I agree Jay, Culebra is still pretty much unspoiled

It's all about supply and demand. Would I pay $100 for a boatyball at Norman? No, and that's why they don't operate there. Cooper? Yes, especially if it meant I could show up at 3:00pm instead of 11:00am. If I didn't want to pay the $100, then I would either skip the destination or arrive early enough to ensure a FCFS ball. The premium charge over a FCFS ball pays for the service (attendant, harbor manager) to enforce the reservation.

Unless I'm missing something, folks who don't want to use the system, and who are comfortable anchoring, shouldn't be impacted at all. So I don't understand the negative energy for a business that is trying to provide a service that I would gladly use on my next trip.

But it seems the one with the fastest internet connection wins, not the most money.

Are they really that hideous haha? Maybe you just need to spend a little more time with them

Your quote:
Unless I'm missing something, folks who don't want to use the system, and who are comfortable anchoring, shouldn't be impacted at all. So I don't understand the negative energy for a business that is trying to provide a service that I would gladly use on my next trip.

Anchoring is very limited due to the fact the the anchorage is full of mooring balls.
Sure there’s going to be some negative energy towards Boatyball because they’re taking some of the first come first serve existing balls, and raising the prices.

In time, I expect that some anchorages will have no fcfs balls

Have sailed in several regions and will be back to the BVI this June. I signed up for Boaty Ball and have been monitoring availability. This winter reservations secured the 7am balls, but there have been balls available even in the afternoon. Cancellations maybe?

I fine departing early if needed to grab a first come ball. I am comfortable with my skills anchoring, but a ball provides a much better night sleep.

I plan to use Boaty Ball to secure a ball at Cooper and Anegada. Will allow for a casual departure. If at 7am a ball reservation isn't available, then no worries and go to Plan B or C.

It's the same number of boats using the same number of balls. To reserve or not is a personal choice.

As boating is a huge part of BVI tourism, it seems the real answer is to install more balls, and it's in the best interest of the BVI's to make it happen.

This will probably be a unpopular opinion but the real answer is a limit on the number of charterboat permits granted. Places like Cooper really don’t have room for additional balls. Popular anchorages are simply maxed out at peak times.
G

George, there is no limit to the number of cruise ship people or charter boats the BVI can accommodate, just ask the politicians and tourist board. If the Baths and White Bay get a little busy, just redirect folks to the mural on the ridge or the cultural stroll through Long Look.

Maybe when Saba and Bitter End get back to operating, it will take some pressure off the balls at Cooper. Also Willy T back at Norman would bring boats back to the Bight. West End not really operating, Trellis and Marina seem to be not as popular and the slips at Scrub now used by DYC.

It seems from trip reports itineraries go like this: Cooper, JVD, Leverick, Anegada.

I didn't think I would ever consider a land based trip to BVI but it is now becoming something I am seriously considering.

Reserved one on Cooper no problem this morning BUT Navigare's "Stella" was sitting on it at ~2:00 PM. We waited, circling for half an hour until they had the courtesy to come back from shore.

Got a Boatyball at Leverick last week. Got in about 3:30. All of the moorings were full except for two boatyballs - one of them mine. A boat came in shortly after us and took the second ball. I suspected they were not the reservation - something about how they drove through the mooring field. About an hour later a boat came out from Leverick and checked the balls and names on the boats. Chased off the squatter. Atleast at Leverick on that particular evening it appears they were out enforcing the reservations. Good job!

When Leverick is filled at 3:30pm the mooring ball situation has hit a tough level.

When Leverick is filled at 3:30pm the mooring ball situation has hit a tough level.

How late do you think you can arrive with a reservation without someone assuming you are not coming? I really don’t like the idea of having to get on my phone at 7:00 am to reserve a ball. If I were to do it, it would be because we planned to arrive pretty late (eg. after 5:30 pm).

Steve74,

If YOU arrive at dark, and I (having reserved and paid for ball) arrive 15 minutes later, would you feel the need to vacate, or declare "Squatter's rights"?

You do realize that most (all?) charter companies have it in your contract that you must be moored X hours before sunset.

Private boats can legally sail/move after dark and technically could be arriving at ball well after dark (Not a suggestion of a good plan, but....)

If the ball is paid for no one has the right to use it and if someone does they should vacate.

Many of us dive at night and arrive quite late to pick up a ball. That is the one advantage I see with Boatyball.
G

If you arrive and find a squatter with nobody aboard. What about digging some lines out, chucking out some fenders and rafting alongside, then tie to the ball.

When they come back, they can then FOQ. You may find they return a little quicker...

I recognise that the balls are not supposed to have more than a single 60ft yacht on. But assuming it's not blowing old boots...and it's for a short period of time...and you remain aboard until the offender returns...plus what is the actual load limit on the balls? An ocean going yacht like a Hallberg Rassy 55 weighs roughly twice what a Jeanneau 54 does...so if it can safely take one of the former, it can certainly take two of the latter.

*this post doesn't change my 100% negative view on BB btw!

Just curious why you’re so admantly against BoatyBall? Have you ever tried the service? And I believe the tonnage and rafting limits are set by the mooring company not BoatyBall. Most of the moorings there were designed to handle 60ft monohulls but in the current cruising scene where Cats around that size are the predominant charter boat in the BVI the swing is a little less generous than it used to be. Sure you could probably get away with rafting two monohulls, but trying that with catamarans is a terrible idea. At the least you’re breaking the rules, and at the worst you’re going to end up with two beached boats and no insurnace from the mooring company.

We were there last Monday. As I indicated our arrival was about 3:30. After us I think there were probably 30 more boats that arrived and sniffed for a mooring. Really need the moorings working at Bitter End and Saba. I don't really understand why they have not been checked and made available. Thirty bucks per mooring seems like a pretty nice income stream for doing nothing more than collecting it.

For all the reasons previously stated by myself and plenty of others...but here it is again.

The issue is not enough balls for current level of charter traffic...caused in no small part by the huge post-irma reduction of supply in places like North Sound. Boatyball doesnt solve the problem, it simply means that the early bird no longer gets the ball...the person with the better internet connection at 7am does. Plus of course all the agro that squatters are causing, which is frequently mentioned on here (doesnt happen with FCFS). If they were adding more balls then great, it would be helping to resolve the issue, I personally still wouldnt use it, but at least it wouldn't be negatively impacting me by taking away the FCFS moorings.

My previous comment was as a monohull sailor. I don't sail cats and my post didnt mention cats. It was quite specific on that point! If, as a monohull sailor, i'd booked and paid for a ball and someone was on it when I arrived, I would not motor around for hours while they finish their lunch/drinks, i'd raft, provided it was safe to do so. Then as skipper I would stay aboard until they return and FOQ. Meanwhile, my crew will be enjoying themselves snorkeling, exploring ashore etc, rather than having precious time wasted doing loops around the bay for hours waiting for some cretin who doesn't think the rules apply to him/her. Time in the BVI is too precious to be wasted.

As an aside, we have frequently seen cats rafted at Cooper and other places for most of the day until the fee collector comes around late afternoon and tells them to move. In every case these were idiots trying to save cash on the mooring fees.

I have on many occasions watched as Cooper Island gladly allowed rafting as long as both boats pay the Mooring fee.
G

I can understand why it might be the option of last resort upon late arrival. I've never done it, but admit, if my friends are on a mooring ball, and no balls available, and in calm conditions, I'd probably do it. I know I'd get a 'snake-eye' from the neighbors, and would certainly apologize for my predicament. I would not recommend it, just commenting if in a situation where my options were limited at the time. For sure, I'd take beers to the neighbors.

Pretty sure the Moor Seacure slip we all sign contains a prohibition against rafting up...

CHRISTO: Exactly why I like BoatyBall. My crew can enjoy coffee and breakfast and enjoy BVI without having to rush to next destination to be assured of getting a ball.

Alec-

Why dont you improve your app? As an example instead of clicking on a specific mooring ball why dont you let users pick a mooring site and then you can assign a ball?

That is not necessarily an improvement.

Warren-

Absent being able to choose your own ball I would be curious as to why you dont think that would be improvement...

That’s more or less how the app functions already. Once you pick the mooring site you’re able to see which moorings are available there and select which one you want to reserve.

I’ve been locked out of a ball as someone else clicked on the same one I did. It was available when I clicked it. And then by the time you pick another ball they are all gone. An option like “give me any free ball” makes a lot of sense.

I used Boatyball last week for one night at Leverick. While it worked for me it was a bit of a struggle as I lost my internet connection at 7:00 and by the time I got it back two minutes later there was one mooring still available which I snagged. In reality I think this process is a bit of a "lottery" to get a mooring. That being the case I wonder if that shouldn't just be embraced which would make the whole process easier. Here is what I think I would do if I ran the zoo:
* Don't allow user's to pick individual moorings. Only which bay.
* Allow users to submit a reservation request at any time. Even days ahead of time.
* 9pm the night before: If there are fewer signed up for a bay than available moorings just assign them. If there are more signed up than available then randomly select the "winners". Notify all of the outcome.
* If there are more moorings available after the lottery at 9pm the previous evening then of course people can keep signing up during the day until it's full (i.e., how it work now).

Advantages to this are:
* It's already random. Who has the fastest finger and the fastest internet is what we have now. And that's going to depend on where you are located and how fast your finger can twitch. So no real downside in my opinion to embrace the "lottery".
* You would know at 9:00 the previous evening if you have a reservation or not. And you can then make some plans with your crew what you might do the next day instead of the next morning.
* No need to be up and running at 7:00 in the morning

same issue exactly...

agrimsrud - I like your ideas. All make a lot of sense.

Is there a potential issue though with not being able to select a specific ball in terms of depth? Anegada for example...not all balls have enough depth for the larger monohulls...

I inquired to BoatyBall about this depth thing a couple of months ago.

To Ty at BoatyBall
On Jan 17, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Chuck wrote:
Hello,
Another suggestion... In areas where depth might be an issue (Anegada). You might list the MLW Mean Low Water depth when you select a ball to reserve.

From Ty at BoatyBall

Chuck,
That is a great idea and would be really helpful at Anegada. We will look into ways that we could potentially gather the information and make it available. Thanks, Ty

Some ball might be favoured for depth (anegada) or shelter from wind etc.

If I was to use boatyball I would like the ability to choose from available balls.

There may be other reasons too. Swing room is not necessarily the same for all balls. There is at least 1 ball at Cooper to close to fcfs balls.

In my view, the problem is not enough mooring balls. The problem was never the need for a reservation system that merely introduces new problems

Would BoatyBall be responsible if a non charterer reserved a ball and it was taken by a chartered boat and the non chartered boat who arrived after dark had to anchor and his anchor dragged and went aground?

The terms of use on the boatyball website would lead me to say no, as they address this exact situation in at least one area, and other areas have more blanket statements that I am sure their legal team crafted in case there was an issue as you describe. Of course this doesn't mean someone wouldn't try to bring such a suit.

*I am not an attorney, and my legal advise is worth exactly the amount that was paid for it!*

Maybe the solution is to allow booking a ball a week in advance? We all know Cooper is a hot spot with limited balls and limited nearby options. Imagine being able to book a night at cooper at the start of your trip. First night you want isn't available, you can simply adjust your plans and pick a night that is. The only problem with this would be how would you handle someone cancelling or not showing up. I imagine once you get within a certain timeframe, there's no refund for cancelling. But you also can't book a ball elsewhere unless you cancel maybe?

Anyway.. seems like it could help people get to destinations they want to get to without all the fuss at 7am? I'm not sure the system truly works well though unless all balls are by reservation.

Three things would get me more onboard with boatyball. First they need to change out the current balls for balls that are not going to damage the underside of cats and second you should be able to cancel a reservation up to say 3pm as long as someone else books the ball. Third and most important they need to pledge that they will not provide priority to individuals or charter companies that pay extra.
G

I don't chime in very often on the forum, but I read most everything posted - and you all have made our family trips so much more enjoyable and easier. This is one of those times I need to say something...

If this isn't the infancy stage of airline seat selection walking on water, I don't know what it is. I was heavily involved with that in the past, and this is exactly what we did at the start.

Begin with a small number of seats (mooring balls) and see what you could get for them. Look at that, they sold out quickly. You add more...and fast. Make some seats better than others and sell them for more. Eventually, make it a standard that if you don't pay extra for your seat ahead of time, you'll have to anchor in the back near the lav with no space for your legs.

But hey, if you are a Vibranium Member and opt-in for the special offer sent through email to your frequent mooring account, you and your flotilla can grab your balls 36 hours early. More revenue from external promotions.

Don't forget the add-ons such as wi-fi, garbage collection, liquor delivery, changing location to move where you really want, all-inclusive premium dinner reservations, air tank refills, SUP delivery, taxi to Hog Heaven, etc. You name it, it can happen and will. Because the number of seats (or balls) is finite, the services must increase to make it viable.

The timing of reservations will become irrelevant. There are third-party ways around trying to login at a specific time. There was the resourceful fellow that created a system to automate the seat selection program against Southwest Airlines exactly 24 hours prior to flight departure, and would then charge his customers a premium to receive a top line boarding priority (seats on Southwest). I wonder if any coders have tried that against Boatyball? Eventually, the timing is all revenue based.

I can sincerely appreciate the idea behind it, but I don't like what I see as unavoidable disruptions in the future. We are still BVI rookies, but my family has been fortunate enough to find our paradise and we would like to keep it that way as long as our extended family will allow. That, and my wife just can't sleep if we have to anchor.

Once the number of mooring balls normalizes with the return of BEYC and Saba Rock, and further improvements to Sopers Hole, Little Harbor, Trellis and Marina Cay, among other places, the frantic race for mooring balls will lessen and the appeal of Boatyball may wane. Right now there are too many boats competing for too few balls. This is creating panic in those charterers that can't or won't anchor. There is money to be made by the BEYC and Saba folks if they got some of their balls on line. Pre-Irma I don't recall the North Sound mooring fields ever being completely full.

The race is on to convert many more balls before beyc and Saba are back.
Convert to bb at white bay and great harbour too. It’s only a matter of time and we will all pay more for it.
I agree with MarkMN.

Speaking of North Sound moorings/anchorages. Looking at anchoring in Robins Bay or off Vixen Pt. However, doesn't Vixen Pt have moorings? Or are they in bad shape?

Along those lines, whats wrong with the Saba/BEYC moorings? Are the pennants removed, or just in a bad/unmaintained state?

We used the BEYC moorings last year. They had the pennants removed and the ring on the top taped up...neither of which was too hard to get around by encouraging Mrs Christo into the dinghy with a knife between her teeth and the dinghy tied to the bow cleat prior to approaching the ball. We subsequently helped out one of the guys we knew who was working on the rubble at BEYC by giving him a lift (Bacchus, i'm sure others on here know him well!)...he had no issues with us using the ball and didn't seem to understand why they were taped up.

...obviously we were aware that it was at our own risk. After carrying out our own inspection we were happy to use it.

A year later...I don't know. We will probably anchor in Prickly Bay.

Me too...

That's what I figured - thanks for the confirmation!

Anyone know the status of the 12-15 balls in front of The Fat Virgin in Biras Creek?

We understood that they had not been maintained for quite a while even pre-Irma (following the closure of Biras I think) and were risky to use even back in 2017...when we were last there in 2018 I recall one of them had an upside-down half sunken powerboat tied to it.

Unless anything has changed...our advice would be to stay clear of them!

Just back from the islands and thought I'd weigh in the BoatyBall thing (trip report at a later date). First, I'm not a fan of the idea. In my view the BoatyBalls have created an artificial demand for Cooper (you always want what you can't have?). I like Cooper fine, and it's always been a nice place for a sundowner and a quiet night aboard, but I don't count it a "must" stop or even necessarily in my top 50% - your mileage may vary. All the angst and hassle over getting a ball there seems misplaced to me.

Anyway, I got online one morning, had the BB site loaded and BINGO there were moorings available at Cooper! I clicked on one I thought would be in less demand (outside row) and got to the "Reserve" page. Clicked the "Reserve" button and... ugh, "This mooring had already been reserved"! He with the fastest internet wins, and that wasn't me!

Long story short, we had a beautiful sail that day, and a perfectly fine (better?) evening on the hook at Marina Cay. I would not have traded it for a mooring reservation at Cooper in a million years!

Cooper has been pretty popular post Irma before boatyball...I think the loss of North Sound moorings and other places have increased the demand for Cooper.

Your issue with trying to pick a mooring is the same one I mentioned earlier. If you click on an open ball then it should it lock out all others on that ball or be shaded already immediately. Its too much of a coincidence that you click on one and someone is doing it at the exact same split second instant even at 700. I believe there is a delay in graying the icon out which is why I recommended to BB that you pick the mooring field in general and then are assigned a ball. I do respect the dissenting view that some may want to choose a mooring but I would expect the majority of boaters would appreciate any ball with less hassle.

They are slated to add another 40 balls I read...

Add or convert existing balls??

Bad news. Another 40 where?

This could be the additional BoatyBalls. Taken from BoatyBall website:

"First Come First Serve
FCFS mooring balls are coming later in 2019.

These mooring balls will be white with our orange logo. FCFS moorings are exactly that - If you tie up to the mooring first, it is your mooring for as long as you wish to stay on it. This is the traditional method used throughout the BVI’s. The only difference is you can pay for each nights stay via the App. No need to carry cash or wait on a tender to arrive to collect money for the mooring.

Tip & Precautions: Not all mooring balls in the BVI’s are in the BoatyBall program. The ones that are in the program are properly maintained by Moore Seacure. In most locations, there are several different owners to the balls located in the mooring field. Not all moorings are on maintenance contracts. So, if you are going to use the APP to pay for a BoatyBall mooring, please ensure that you are tied up to one, you have the right bay selected in the App (easy to do with the locate me button) and it is a BoatyBall mooring BEFORE you pay for it. Failure to do so can result in the loss of your payment. Paying for a FCFS ball before tying up to it, DOES NOT RESERVE THE BALL FOR YOU."

Never had an issue with paying the chap in the tender!

...but I'll take a FCFS Boatyball over the other kind of Boatyball any day...

But is this existing FCFS balls being converted to Boatyball FCFS (pointless but not a bother, unless the price goes up)...or are they actually adding some new ones does anyone know?

Just the kind of 'progress' the BVI needs. Hopefully Soggy Dollar Bar will start accepting Bitcoin soon...though they will have to change their name...'Short-circuited iPhone Bar' has a good ring to it.

And how much will boaty ball fcfs cost?

The only advantage here seems to be not needing to use cash.

Who thinks this is useful?

No idea...

https://virgincharteryachts.com/news

I am sure Alec can give us more information

Another speed bump... A sailing vacation is supposed to be where you drop and forget the 9 to 5 routine.
It seem s the only ones who are going to enjoy Boaty Ball are the owners and the Blowhard overweight charterers with a paid Captain and crew.

Personally, I see no value in this except for boatyball. The current system works well. Can’t see any reason paying a higher fee just to pay though a credit card to boatyball. I plan on continuing as always until no other choice

Who owns boaty ball? Are there kickbacks? Follow the money. Something smells.

I hope that there are no long team contracts, else prices are going to jump a lot once they control the market.

Mooring balls were initially installed to help protect the environment in the BVI. The US Virgin islands installed them in the National Parks for the same reason. However, maintaining and insuring mooring balls comes at a cost and many of the moorings in the BVI have not been maintained properly. If boats cannot trust moorings then this will have a negative impact on both the environment and local establishments. One of our goals at BoatyBall was to help promote maintained and insured moorings.

BoatyBall is simply a service to help simplify the payment process for moorings. BoaytBall does not own the moorings. The app was designed to support both first come first serve moorings as well as reservation only moorings. The resorts, mooring ball owners, and many boaters wanted to start with the reservation feature. We never expected this feature to have the demand that it has had. We have had over 2100 reservations in the last three months. I understand that there are many boaters that will never use the app or the reservations feature but no one is forcing anyone to use the app. There are plenty of unmaintained an uninsured moorings in the BVI that will never be in the app. There are also plenty of suitable anchorage sites for those who choose to anchor.

Finally, like many of you we feel there needs to be additional moorings installed in the BVI. Up until now there has not been a good way of tracking usage and demand. BoatyBall makes it easy for mooring ball owners to track the usage and we believe this data will justify the need for additional moorings to be installed in the BVI. We appreciate the support and feedback that we have received from this group.

Many places already advertise that their balls are maintained by moor secure..

I was not aware that boatyball is responsible if your mooring fails. I think that the standard moor secure mooring receipt says use at own risk. Had anyone read the terms recently?

If boaty ball installs more balls instead of higher priced converted balls, and if the balls are not too high for a cat, then I would consider using the fcfs version of boaty ball.

Personally I dont have any issue with boatyball conceptually...I just would hope they get the app more user friendly. I recognize they are running a business and like any business will have the goal of making a profit. I believe BB's clients are the establishments (as opposed to the captains) that pay BB to collect their fees like "Paypal" and like Paypal provides a "cashless" way to exchange funds. I dont believe BB will guarantee a mooring but please correct me if I am wrong, Alec.

I do see dynamic pricing in the future like the toll roads around Washington DC where pricing is based upon demand. I would point out that the demand right now isnt for BB per se as much as a general demand for mooring/anchoring space in general. This demand I would submit is actually based upon the decrease in supply of mooring space during the first meaningful high season since Irma.

Most of the balls in use at the normal anchorages are installed and maintained by moor secure. Those that are not generally are marked private. There were some exceptions like BEYC who did their own maintenance. I have had two balls fail on me at night. One failed at the seabed and the other under the ball. Both were corrosion induced. I would not touch any of the BEYC balls now as corrision at the shackles on the seabed is a issue.
The current style ball chosen by boatyball is to tall for most cats and will damage the underside of the cat as well as keeping you up all night if you don’t have a steady breeze to keep the boat downwind of the ball. You can prevent this by bringing the ball up short and trapping it near the front crossbar so it can’t get under the bridge deck. If you don’t control the ball you could be hit with a rather large repair bill by the charter company. That big steel ring on top of the ball will do a job on the bridge deck.
G

I don't think it's useful at all really. Everyone knows the program with FCFS and it's worked forever....if you want a guaranteed mooring then get up earlier and get there. I've never planned on a stop and couldn't get a mooring. Also, let's face it.....I don't think having $300 cash for moorings is a real issue with people that are spending $15k on a vacation. It's just a very easy thing that gets planned for.

Cheers to that!

This is a much more logical approach than reserving a specific ball due to the problems mentioned here.

Moor Seacure has installed and maintained moorings in most of the popular bays. However, there are multiple mooring ball owners in each bay and there are just as many moorings balls in the BVI that are not maintained and insured as there are maintained ones. There are several popular bays that do not have a single mooring ball in a maintenance program. Maintaining and insuring moorings balls is expensive and the ones that choose to have their moorings in a maintenance program pay a significant amount for this service. BoatyBall hopes to make it easy for boaters to select moorings that are maintained and insured. Mooring to a ball that is maintained and insured does not mean you will never have an issue but it does greatly reduce the odds. One of our goals is to promote moorings that are maintained and insured and we believe boaters want that peace of mind. If mooring ball owners can continue to charge the same as a maintained and insured moorings in the BVI then there is no incentive for them to change their behavior.

To answer your other question. BoatyBall does not install, own, maintain, or insure mooring balls. We simply are providing a service to those that do to make it easier to collect payments and track usage. We believe having more maintained moorings in the BVI will be good for boaters and tourism. BoatyBall was started by two friends whose families vacation together in the BVI. We both have day jobs and we decided to create BoatyBall for fun. Like many of you we love the BVI and wanted to create a solution that would allow us to spend more time on the water with our families. We also wanted to create a solution that would help out the local establishments after Irma. After talking with different resort and restaurant owners we found that a lot of the help left the islands and dealing with cash was an issue. BoatyBall allows restaurants and other establishments to plan for how many boats they will have in their bay each night and call in extra staff if needed. Based off of the early feedback and the overwhelming response we believe we have created a service that boaters want. It is not perfect but we have only been live for three months now and we continue to make changes based off of feedback.

I’ve never had or know of anyone who has had a problem with a moorsecure mooring ball, they do say its at your own risk the same as Boaty Ball. The only ones who benefit are the mooring owners and some restaurants as for the charterers they’re screwed with red tape that shouldn’t be part of a Caribbean sailing vacation

Not based on the feedback on this forum!

Maybe not based on the feedback on this forum but with over 2K reservations over the last three months, it's safe to say that someone likes the service.

I'm game to keep stirring this pot. Why is it ok to have to get up early on vacation to physically sail to and secure a FCFS ball at Cooper or Anegada but not ok to get up early to log into an app to secure a reservation? And then make a leisurely departure and take more time on the water en route?

Because in the world of 100% FCFS everyone has the ability to get to a mooring field in time to get a ball...its a choice and its a level playing field. Not just those with a good internet connection at 7am and fast fingers. Some people may like to still be asleep at that time, personally we are usually gone by then, so would have to find a signal whilst underway.

I'm not at all suprised about the 2k reservations and it doesn't prove the popularity of the idea at all...BB have taken FCFS balls away, so of course they're going to get used! There are more boats than balls...people won't just leave them vacant because they think BB is a s### idea! how many of the 2k reservations would have preferred or been just as happy with a FCFS? No way to know.

The more that are converted, the more people are forced to move over to BB, whether they want to or not. And the EARLIER everyone else has to get to the mooring field to pick up one of the remaining FCFS balls.

Its the very definition of a nil sum game. Some people win by having the best internet connection at 7am...the rest have to get to the mooring field even earlier than they otherwise would have...to get a FCFS ball.

None of it solves the problem...which is undersupply! If BB added some more balls then they would be helping the problem. As it is...the "two friends" who started it have just thrown a spanner in the works of a machine that was working just fine without their input.

It wasn't broken...it didn't need 'fixing'!

(and that's without listing all the other negatives of BB that have been mentioned on this forum...squatter issues/balls that damage cats/staying two nights etc etc etc)

What a CF.....anchors away.......

Christo, I agree!!!

Also interested in the “insured” statement....what does that mean???

Part of the benefit of Moor Seacure moorings is that they have some sort of liability insurnace associated with them. I don’t know how much they are insured for, but from what I understand they will reimburse a Boater x amount for damages if their boat becomes unattached from one of their moorings due to a fault on their part (ie. Penant damage, broken shackle, corrosion, etc.)

Keep in mind, there's 32 pages of posts here and how many individual users? How many people charter in the BVI? TTOL is popular, but I wouldn't say it is representative of all those chartering in the BVI - might not even be representative of the majority.

Personally, I like the concept of BB, but I'm not sure I like the implementation. I don't want to be concerned with getting online right at 7am to reserve a ball. No more then I want to rush to get a ball at 2pm though. Although prior to Irma (since I haven't been back since) there were only a few spots where this was necessary. Cooper as one example. We've ended up arriving too late to get a ball before and just moved on.

Rather then reserving a ball for that night at 7am, I'd much rather see the ability to reserve a ball a week in advance. At a spot like Cooper where all moorings might be taken many nights, it could make it easier for those planning to pick their night at cooper and adjust the rest of their plans around it. No ball available Mon, you try Tue.. Wed..etc. There are plenty of other issues this could cause though so it would certainly need a fair amount of thought. But this also isn't some new idea. Dockwa is in use around us in New England and seems to work well allowing you to book well in advance. I think the major difference though is that with dockwa, the area you are mooring in owns the mooring balls vs the BVI where that isn't always the case.

Change is hard for most people though, but I think if given a chance, those that are against it might not find it so bad - aside from the 7am rush to reserve a mooring.

Christo, with all due respect you don't exactly represent the average charterer in the BVI. The BVI is a great place for beginner sailors and credit card captains who get their feet wet once or twice a year. I'd bet a great deal of money that the overwhelming majority of charterers in the BVI don't have half the experience as yourself or many of the members of this forum. There's a reason the BVI government, locals, and resorts have invested in mooring balls and Mooring companies urge their boaters to tie up to them; its because the average boater down there just doesn't have the experience to safely and securely anchor every night. For you it may not seem like a big deal to use that pointy thing on the bow, but for the rest of us, showing up to a full mooring field and having to leave to find a new ball or keep someone on anchor duty all night isn't exactly relaxing or fun. Granted, the alternative option is to wake up at the crack of dawn and race to a mooring field, but then you've just lost valuable time that could be spent on the water or enjoying some other part of the BVI. BoatyBall was created to offer those who use (or need) mooring balls to spend more time on the water enjoying the BVI and less time worrying about where or how they are going to spend the night.

I understand that BoatyBall isn't a perfect system or solution and that many of you won't even use the service, because to be frank, most of you are incredibly experienced sailors. I, on the other hand am not. I'm a 19 year old college student, and while I'm perfectly capable sailing and tying up to moorings, I don't exactly enjoy anchoring or staying up all night hoping I won't have to shell out my college tuition if I end up drifting. I also hate having to come off the water at noon to find a ball when I could be diving or sailing around.

Again, I understand that BoatyBall just may not be your cup of tea. But I hope you can realize and respect that the guys at BoatyBall aren't some money hungry corporate goons that are trying to wreck the BV, because the reality is they're sailors just like all of us who enjoy the BVI and want to make it more enjoyable for all involved. I mean follow the money if you don't believe me; the guys at BoatyBall aren't exactly making a fortune from charging a processing fee for a reservation.

I get that the system isn't perfect and there has been and will continue to be growing pains, but overall feedback from boaters (even on this forum), locals, and business owners has largely been positive. I'm not trying to convince you to use BoatyBall, but I hope I've at least given you a little bit better perspective on why the system was created in the first place. And if not, its always nice to get some good practice in with the pointy thing at the front part of the boat. Cheers

The guys at BoatyBall are currently developing the ability to make reservations further in advance. The system has really only been implemented for about three months now and I know there is still a lot of stuff that they've been working on in the app to make it more user friendly. The 7am reservation time was a compromise from the original 12am reservation time. Its not ideal, and they're working on a solution, but 7am is much more doable for most people instead of midnight.

I dont think you can make the connection because people use the service they necessarily like the service...I use Parkmobile and EZ Pass to navigate and park in DC and spend a lot of money per year. I dont necessarily "like" the service but it makes my life easier. Most importantly, the apps are easy to use. The BB app/experience isnt there (yet).

The real reason people are using BB is the lack of supply of anchorage/mooring space post Irma which requires people to use boatyball moorings.

I dont have an issue with the BB concept as I have mentioned. I just want the app to be easier to use and when I click on a nongrayed mooring that it is available or if someone else choses it then it is grayed out immediately. Too much of a coincidence to indicate "faster internet" at captains end. I bet issue at server or program at BB end. If this cant be done then offer any ball in the harbor as opposed to having to pick a specific mooring hoping someone else isnt using it.

Part of the problem is the somewhat disingenuous promotion/description of boatyball by the founders to be something it really isnt...its simply PayPal for moorings.

This is just like when the government is looking for revenue and they impose taxes on their citizens.
They feel they know how to fool the people and believe the people are ignorant enough to believe them.
Once BB get enough of the mooring balls they’ll have a captive audience and they’ll raise the rates because you can be sure the politicians will get their fingers in the cookie jar

You seem to be forgetting the fact that BoatyBall doesn’t own the Moorings and at the end of the day they don’t really control the prices either. Sure they could raise the booking fee to an astronomical rate but if it negatively impacts the number of boaters that are able to stay in a bay and the amount of money they spend onshore, the mooring owners don’t have any incentive to keep the system. Sure BoatyBall is trying to make a profit; that’s how a business works. But at the end of the day they’re boaters too and they don’t want to see chartering in the BVI become prohibitively expensive either. If the added $10 is really too much to pay for the convenience of having a guaranteed mooring where you want it then anchoring works pretty well too.

Everyone knows all businesses need to make a profit, and you know like most of the mooring ball owners know there is hardly anywhere to anchor because the mooring balls have taken all the shallow water spots.
This new venture is just another unnecessary restriction on the free spirit of the charterers

I think we can both agree that BoatyBall being an “unnecessary restriction on the free spirit of the charterers” is a bit of an overstatement. It’s more like an optional service that people can use on their own volition if they see its benefit.

When the FCFS are converted to FCFS Boatyball moorings, will paying through the app be optional and can we still pay cash?

I see that BB and mooring ball owners will be the only beneficiaries once you monopolize the majority of the balls and charterers are forced to go online to reserve a ball or ruin their vacation.
But anyway it is what it is and it won’t affect me.

Anything that discourages anchoring is a positive for the health of the Coral.

Boatyball encourages anchoring.

What's wrong with the incentive?

As far as I know boatyball has not installed a single mooring. How does that discourage anchoring?
G

Anyone who’s chartered in the BVI knows that anchoring is very limited due to the amount of moorings in the preferred anchorages.

Couldn't it be looked at discouraging anchoring? If the majority of charters have no desire to anchor and will only moor and use BB to ensure they get a mooring, then they'll just pick another location for the night to avoid having to anchor. Without BB, they'd show up for FCFS and if there were no balls available, maybe they'd be forced to anchor?

As far as the issue with picking a ball and then finding its not available, maybe a ball needs to be held each time someone gets to the reservation screen. Then you are ensured a ball and then you can then choose which one you want. Still might not get the one you want, but at least you'd have a ball?

When Boatyball was announced, I thought it might be a good idea. But when I heard about the squatters on balls that had been bought and payed for, I lost interest. Even if they have this problem fixed for the most part, I can assure you I'll have a squatter on my ball when I show up late afternoon/evening. Alex, you said yesterday, "If the added $10 is really too much to pay for the convenience of having a guaranteed mooring where you want it ". So, for me, it doesn't really sound like they can guarantee my ball will be sitting there waiting with no squatters on it. I'm down there for the fun and relaxation, not worrying about availability the parking spot I just rented for the night . Thanks

BB may encourage anchoring amongst those that don't want to be forced into using it. The problem was not enough mooring balls. The solution was not a reservation system that merely introduced new problems without increasing the number of balls.

I expect most negative comments would not exist had new balls been introduced and no balls converted from tried and true fcfs.

Sorry but your response doesn't make any sense! Until you add some balls...you have not made any difference to the amount of people who need to anchor. You've just stirred things up so different people get to use the ones available.

As for people being legally in charge of a vessel and crew and not knowing how to anchor...well that is a very different issue, for another day.

The voice of reason.

Haven't been down to use Boatyball yet, but are squatters really a problem? Do they have a procedure for dealing with it?

If not, then I see that as a HUGE problem! I am going to be pretty darned annoyed if I pay extra to reserve a ball, and then when I get there I am forced to deal with a squatter on my own. For the money I paid, Boatyball should be the ones who deal with squatters. I'm paying them so that I don't have to deal with that sort of aggravation.

I haven't been yet either. My understanding is that boatyball now has people who better enforce the reservations and tell the "squatters" the mooring is reserved. Also, I think it is becoming less of a problem now that more people are becoming more aware of BB.

Having just returned from the islands, my experience is that not only will I never again attempt to use BoatyBall, I also have scratched Cooper from my itineraries (and I love a good rum bar!). Who wants to show up at 4:00 in a harbor and not have a place to spend the night? Unless you are one of the lucky dozen who wins the BoatyBall lottery at 7:00:01, is the alternative showing up at 11:00, or even 2:00? When do we get to sail/dive/snorkel, whatever? Honestly, on my recent visit, it felt like boats were almost racing from harbor to harbor in order to get on a mooring. Different strokes for different folks, but that's exactly what I'm trying to get away from when I'm down there. And as to anyone who does not now how to or is not comfortable setting an anchor for the night, I understand the BVI is an entry-level cruising ground but that doesn't excuse the person responsible for the safety of a boat and crew from knowing basic seamanship.

For Cooper, this really isn't anything new. You typically had to get there early or get lucky. On a few occasions in the past, we've been there between 3 and 4 and no balls were free so we moved on. At least with Cooper though it is a fine spot to get to early. Plenty to do there with snorkeling and diving available close enough to just dinghy to it.

I have used BB several times, in February, when fairly new. I do think squatters are less of issue.

Resolved easily on 2 occasions by politely asking "Do you have a reservation for that ball?" (Knowing that they do not, because I did). They promptly moved. Biggest potential issue is if the captain is off boat.

I like to be on water, not hurrying to next ball.

During our last trip in late February we visited Leverick and saw no issues arise with BB. We anchored at the far end of the mooring field opposite the fuel dock so probably wouldn't have noticed in any event.

We went to Anegada the next day and spent two nights. We had the closest FCFS ball near Anegada Reef and Potters, so we had the BB's all around us. There were squatters each day. On the first day the crews were off the two squatting boats (traveling together) and it took a couple of hours to get sorted, but I don't think there were any harsh words - just frustration.

On the second day there were two squatters again (different boats than on the first day). One boat moved immediately after being told they were on a reserved BB, no drama. The second boat initially refused to move as the folks with the reservation circled through the mooring field 6+ times. There were many harsh words going both ways before long. Eventually a young lady came out on a dinghy, spent several minutes talking to the crew of the squatting boat, and finally the boat moved to allow the reserved boat to take the ball. The bigger problem was the squatting boat moved to our port side and anchored (after numerous failed attempts) in an untenable position. A couple of Sunsail captains that were leading a flotilla finally convinced the skipper to move, again after lots of back and forth. It became quite a spectacle, with folks riding by and hovering around in their dinghies to watch.

The incident on the second day kept us on our boat a couple of extra hours that we would have normally spent ashore. However, the entire situation left us feeling very uncomfortable about leaving our boat. Once again, everything was eventually sorted out. The second incident was all the talk at the bars that evening and caused quite a few folks to voice their frustrations. I don't think BB is to blame, it was the antics of the skipper and crew of the squatting boat. In February, at least, it didn't seem many people understood the rules.

I haven't used BB yet, but I still might consider it. However, if I have a choice I will try to avoid taking a FCFS mooring or anchoring near the BB's.

We are going to be chartering this May on our first visit since 2015. I have been following this thread to try to understand the Boatyball option and I have a question about reserving for multiple nights. If you know that you want to spend multiple consecutive days at a location does Boatyball allow you to reserve more than one night on the same ball, or do you need to try and re-reserve every day? I have not been able to find an answer to this on their website and I'm hoping someone on this forum may know. Thanks.

No...each day you need to reserve that day starting at 700 am trying to get reservations. My advice is to avoid BB wherever you can for reasons stated over the last 9 pages. It was a complete pain in February screwing around with their primitive website at 700 3 different days and fortunately we didn't need it. We will be down in May as well and it isn't as crowded so that should help. The only real place it comes into play is Cooper.

Leverick has plenty of other options and Anegada does as well to include anchoring.

Akflyer and bailau, We'll be down first 10 days of May. When is your trip? We're on a Sunsail 38 mono flying a red Jolly Roger! Stop and say hello if you see us!!!

We will be there from the 10th to the 24th. Chartering with Moorings on a 382.

Land Based on the East End of Jost May 4-12. Look for us at one of our neighborhood bars.

We are May 12th - May 20th on a moorings Powercat 514PC. We will be flying Kenny Chesney's Love for Love City Flag and Operation Sail it Forward flag. 3 adults and 6 college kids...

It would be great to catch up with any TTOLer...

Ski2Play-I look forward doing that one day. Being responsible for a boat and crew isnt always as fun as sitting still. My buddy owns the Pink House on Jost and have thought of staying there or Anegada for 1 week. I would actually look forward to your trip report...

Akflyer-You have a powercat. Get to Cooper by 930, Leverick by 1030 and Anegada by 1030 and you will be fine. If you choose a weekend any of those 3 should be pretty clear in May, especially Anegada

That pretty much kills the Boatyball idea for us. We have been down enough that we prefer to spend at least two nights and relax at our favorite spots. Not knowing if we can stay more than one night without playing "Boatyball roulette" seems like the anithesis of relaxing.

The Moorings 38.2 (382 was a typo on my part) that we have is actually a monohull sailboat, so we will be traveling a bit slower than a powercat.

Akflyer-

My mistake...I would just plan your trip to Cooper early and then plan to be in Anegada over the weekend when it is less crowded. Maybe plan to go up there on a Friday for the weekend. At Leverick/North Sound there are plenty of other options to moor or anchor or even dock at Leverick Bay which we did last trip.

I have been down the last 2 Mays and it isnt nearly as bad as Feb was in terms of boats. And by May 2019 we will have more mooring/docking choices to include Oil Nut Bay.

I dont know if Moorings can upgrade monohulls (I do cats and powercats through Moorings) but I usually check within 2 weeks of departure and have been successful in getting boat upgrades in terms of a newer vintage boat.

Agree as to ignoring boaty ball roulette...

You could always book boatyball for the first night and then grab a regular mooring when available the next day. I do think they need to make a lot more changes to the way it works, such as being able to book further in advance and multiple nights.

Akflyer & bailau, My wife and I will be on Anegada May 11-18. We spend most of our time at Cow Wreck. Look for the old guy wearing a Notre Dame bucket hat. I will gladly buy drinks!

You are my hero...where are you staying? Sitting still on that island for a week is on my bucket list...

Current flight plan is to be at Anegada May 15 & 16 and will look for you on the 16th and it would be an honor to buy you a drink. I have a group of college kids bringing their college pennants up to hang at CW but no Irishmen...

You know, just the fact that the term "Boatyball roulette" has become a commonly-understood thing, should be a clear indication to them that they have issues with their system.

We are staying at D&H Sunshine villas. The last houses before you take the hard right going towards Cow Wreck. We will look for you on the 16th. No worries. I am very used to being the only Irish fan.

So is this a condemnation of BB or encouragement of BB to expand?

In regards to spending a second night in an anchorage, the easy solution is to move next morning. I have never been in a BVI mooring anchorage where there were not at least 1 boat leaving by the time I finish my first cup of coffee.

BB draw to me is to allow me to spend more time on water and get to anchorage knowing that I have a reserved BB(perhaps with a squatter). BB has no advantage to those arriving early in day as moorings are plentiful. The "first" to arrive in anchorage is one who slept there the night before. It really is not much of a chore to change balls if you are spending multiple nights.

Moving balls in the morning is easy unless they are all on a reservation system.
G

Akflyer-

Per our conversation as you can see from the hopefully attached webcam shot Cooper is pretty open on a Saturday morning

Very true!

It would be interesting to know if there are enough moorings to support every boat out on charter any given night. If there were, it would seem having them all be by reservation and allowing the reservation to be made a week or so in advance could allow one to plan out all their stops. If the first stop wasn't available, just change the itinerary. We tend to have a plan and usually stick to it so I would find this appealing. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't bother. I think the only real issue with this is how to deal with someone changing plans, cancelling or not showing up?

The other is weather making a anchorage unusable. Reservations a week out will encourage people to overnight where they should not be for a given set of weather conditions.
G

If you could reserve a mooring ball linked to your dinner reservation would this be a viable system?

Now there is one great idea..book the ball..book the table..one low stress day and great evening meal..and good night's sleep..and one bill to pay..I see bright orange balls in front of the "WD" soon!

We reserved a boaty ball at Anegada this past Tuesday. This was our first experience using boaty ball. Got up at 6:30am and was able to reserve ball #3. Left Leverick and took our time knowing that we had our mooring reserved for the night. We arrived around 1:00pm to find a Moorings boat on our ball. We told the people on the boat that we had reserved the ball and could they please leave. They replied that they had the ball and they were trying to reserve it. I again told them that we had already reserved it. They did not respond but the captain got up and walked back to the helm. We proceeded to circle back around so we could pick up the ball once they released it. When we arrived at their stern everyone on their boat except one person went below. I asked them again to leave and that we had reserved the ball. He said he was sitting on our ball hoping and waiting for another FCFS ball to open up so he could move. We again asked him to leave and he just stared at us. We then threatened to cut their mooring lines so we could take our reserved ball, we would not had done that but we felt that was the only way to get them to leave. They then proceeded to release the ball and we were able to tie up. Unfortunately I did not get the name of the boat. Hopefully the Moorings will read this post and have a better discussion with their charter groups on how Boaty Ball works.

I think Boatyball are the ones that need to monitor and enforce their moorings since you're paying a premium for the reserved ball. Thankfully, anchoring is an option at Anegada if no moorings are available. Seems like Boatyball has increased the blood pressure of many captains since its start.

I would have told the skipper that when he chartered the boat he told the Moorings that he was competent to anchor the boat when needed. Since he clearly was not comfortable doing that the in the easiest place to anchor in the BVI he needed to call the Moorings and have a skipper placed on board.
G

We are planning to arrive in Anegada on the 17th, so we will look out for the Notre Dame hat.

I agree....at this point, it seems like the “boaty ball” founders are sitting in front of a computer in a land far away from the BVI, watching their bank accounts grow and eating popcorn while everyone bitches, but keeps using them....

I'd like to know if "Boatyball" has a trade license to be operating a business in the BVI.

....wondered the same thing....particularly since they seem to be working some restaurants?

Quite! Not really the island-vibe we are all seeking. The kind of encounter Islandtimebill enjoyed could bring a very different mood to the rest of the day...and that's assuming that the 'conversation' with the squatter doesn't continue in the bar in the evening. Anegada-agro...its a no from me.

...and these are the times I really miss Saildoggie....he would have been all over this one....lol

Bring on the Abacos.....

Boatyball sent an email justifying the increase in prices as increased cost of "enforcement" as that is on them and not Moorings or charter companies. I will ask Moorings how they are doing the "education" piece in May.

Does anybody know who "owns" which balls? I would like to get the contact numbers so if I have to pay the Boatyball tax and have an issue I can speak directly to the owner?

I would suggest taking any issues you have to the restaurants/bars that are getting the fees as boatyball doesn't seem to be interested in fixing their mess.

It seems the BoatyBall entrepreneurs must have had some money to throw around and decided to embark on a business that they thought would follow the rules of a text book.

Port and starboard poop deck, roll out the guns, give em a broadside !

This old sailor is a wee bit overwhelmed......boaty ball has erupted into a bloody war. I really do not think that their idea of reserving their specific moorings was going to result in all this mayhem.

What will us long time , happy hour rum loving, sail trimming sailors do ?

KEEP IT SIMPLE AND JUST KEEP ON SAILING THE BVI LIKE WE ALWAYS HAVE..

We are not going to get involved in boaty ball. There are FCFS moorings, and sometimes slips are available. we like the easy feeling that moorings and slips will allow confidence that our boat is secure..
If anchoring, for additional safe feelings, we would anchor away from the masses, using a bahamian moor.

We do not plan to use boaty ball, The boaty balls have reserved written on them and they look totally different from the More Secure moorings. For what is worth, back on Kauai, we stay off posted lands that say Kapu.
Simply put, PRIVATE LAND , STAY OUT ! We respect that. We respect those who have reservations with boat ball.

After reading most of the above posts we just plan to sail our 36 ft. monohull, just the two of us, normal procedure, and yes we will leave or previous mooring early, but that gives us more time to pick up a FCFS mooring, and get in our snorkeling early,

However, I also realize that many bare boaters are sailing the fanastic BVI, for only ONE WEEK......That time is going to pass at warp speed. .

Just our observations, we all on the mainland live or have lived at the speed of light.....tooooo faaaast. If ti is possible, and sometimes the demands of businesss, etc, preclude that TWO WEEK OPTION. ....but lordy, two weeks would
make the BVI sailing vacation, more on ...well, ISLAND TIME, and not a rapid sea world experience on a floating light speed sea going hotel. Is that possible, probably not for most folks until retirement kicks in. .

We all have to enjoy the BVI, as best we can, may your sailing vacation be the best ever.

Denny, had they added moorings for reservations instead of taking some of the limited FCFS moorings with "said" intentions of taking more, this would probably not even be an issue and probably even welcomed.

Xrayman67, I agree completely. It would have been a big addition to the cruising grounds if they had increased the number of moorings. . As boatyball has been implemented, reducing the number of FCFS moorings,I wish it would pack up and get out of town. Otherwise watch the prices continue to creep up on their moorings and watch more FCFS moorings go to the dark side.

I started watching this thread when it started in November, made a couple of comments and in March had a lovely two weeks in the amazing BVI. I had the BB app loaded and was prepared to reserve at 0700, what really happened was that it did not affect our experience one iota!

There was one day that we had Cooper as a goal, got there about 3p.m. no moorings, ok on to Marina Cay, it was a beautiful day, aren't they all, and we were really enjoying the sail NBD, change the plan.

The owners/managers @ BoatyB have responded to questions in this thread. In fact "we" have helped them refine and improve (maybe) the product. I bet they have some other ideas to make the whole process better for those that choose to use it.

I don’t see where you helped them, according to this thread it has been getting worse,more costly and annoying a lot of charterers who come down to enjoy there vacation.

I didn't say I helped, I said the group here on TTOL has been providing feedback since November. I chose not to use the service, though I won't judge the product, and I understand that it isn't for everyone just as it wasn't for me.

To be fair this thread has 21 authors and about 4 people that have actually used the app. That’s hardly a fair representation of all of the boaters in the BVI and those that have used the system.

Well said......

I was optimistic at first. Boatyball said they were installing new mooring balls. Then came the real news, FCFS balls were being replaced with "reserved balls". Alec, without someone in the mooring field being proactive, this is just someone getting paid for nothing. Having someone prepay, only to find somebody else on the mooring, is very risky and potentially dangerous.

There is someone in the mooring field though. There are bay managers in each of the locations that are trained on the system and serve to prevent people from tying off to moorings without a reservation and facilitate the remediation of conflicts. That’s partly why less than 1% of reservations have had this issue. Look, the system is 3 months old; it’s not perfect. But the guys at BoatyBall aren’t just sitting on their butts and collecting a paycheck (collecting a $10 service fee and covering credit card transactions doesn’t exactly line your pockets). Getting stuff right takes time and money, and believe it or not, BoatyBall actually does read this thread quite a bit as well as emails from clients and are constantly working on tweaks to make the system better. I get how converting FCFS moorings is frustrating too. But installing completely new moorings in a lot of the locations just isn’t feasible. And even if it was, the mooring company is hesitant to install more because they have no way of tracking the occupancy rates on the moorings. I’m not saying that your concerns aren’t valid, I’m just saying that maybe you should give it some time and recognize that they are actively trying to make the system better for everyone involved.

Alec-

I am fine with this in theory and very used to similar apps in the parking/driving world in DC. It is the execution and app that are flawed. I must say however you and your family and business partners are starting to lose me with your "deceptive" PR for your business.

There are 23 unique authors on the 1st page of this 10 page blog alone. I have used the app and although I didn't look through 10 pages I am highly confidant there are more than 3 others who have used the app. I would be curious as to how you can make the statement you did.

I have a lot of respect for you as an early college student for being involved in this business and for tangling with a bunch of "old salts" on this board. Please fix or at least attempt to fix the issues outlined and stop trying to minimize or marginalize them

Fair enough.

Your kidding right? Moorings is going to "educate" charterers. Moorings and for that matter all of us in the charter industry have nothing to do with Boatyball. This intrusion into the industry and the market is an attempt to solve a problem that doesn't exist. It is just that an intrusion. It is not the charter companies problem. This desire to schedule and plan to the last minute is simply not needed. A web page that makes you get up and compete for a mooring at 7:00 AM every day so you can make it to the "promised land" only to compete with someone not playing by the same rules adds no value to your vacation or sailing experience. Frankly at this point I would completely ignore Boatyball and their moorings. Sail where and when you want to sail, have a back up plan if their is no room at the inn and turn off your internet.

Do I get credit for trying to use the app but didn't get a reservation because my internet connection was too slow?

Regarding enforcement, do the bay/harbour managers only involve themselves when an issue of a squatter is brought to them? This is already too late in my opinion. Seems like a potentially easy fix would be for them to verify the boat name matches the reservation as soon as they observe someone hooking up to a Boatyball. If not, they are told to move and a conflict between captains will be avoided when the reserved boat arrives.

We just got back from 3 weeks on our boat. We anchored about half the time and used FCFS balls the rest of the days. We tried the Boaty ball option for a day that we were headed to Cooper but our internet was in a dead zone that morning so it did not work out. When we were at Leverick we noticed that most of the BB moorings were empty while the FCFS balls were all in use and a few boats were anchored. I suspect that once the Saba and Bitter End balls are back in play the only BB spot that will remain viable will be Cooper.

I agree. With demand so high I don't understand why Saba and BEYC don't put some of their balls back into service. They are missing a chance to make some easy money.

Regardless it has annoyed charterers at the end of the day when they should have been in a positive mood.
Turned a 7 day vacation to 6.

We just got back from 3 weeks on our boat. We anchored about half the time and used FCFS balls the rest of the days. We tried the Boaty ball option for a day that we were headed to Cooper but our internet was in a dead zone that morning so it did not work out. When we were at Leverick we noticed that most of the BB moorings were empty while the FCFS balls were all in use and a few boats were anchored. I suspect that once the Saba and Bitter End balls are back in play the only BB spot that will remain viable will be Cooper. - henryv
________________________________________________

Well said henvyv:

I think one by-product of Irma is that "for the most part", many people had to skip a year of chartering, have returned this season (abstinence makes the heart grow fonder), and have endured the "cost increases". The BVI hierarchy has gone from "fleecing" people to maybe "skinning" them. The demand may exceed the product, but the BVI is taking a risk. As an example, we use to head down to the islands once or twice a year. This year, after a post-Irma hiatus, we charted "a big cat", paid the increasing arrival-departure fees, the increasing BVI cruise tax fees, etc and had a good time. However, our plan for next year, if we get to go, is to charter a fifty year old 32' mono-hull or maybe a bamboo raft and anchor everywhere.

+1 to Jay's post.

Quite simply Boatyball (what an awful name btw!) Has created so many new problems whilst not addressing in any way the fundamental issue of under-supply.

This and several other points made repeatedly by other veterans of this forum continue to go unanswered by BB.

I note also that this thread appears to be one of the most popular in recent history on this forum...second to the post-Irma thread...maybe BB might recognise that this is not necessarily a good thing...

We have made use of BoatyBall five times this trip (we are on one now). Mostly the app works well (one day it seemed to have trouble but ultimately revived) but of course you need luck to actually secure a ball because they often sell out quickly.

Another +1 to Captain Jay’s post.

Looks like Leverick Bay may have removed themselves from BB? Don’t see them on the map this morning.

They’re using the boatyballs to hold their docked boats because of the poker run today. They should be back online tomorrow.

What happens when I want to arrive to a mooring field early?

With FCFS I can get to a field at 8 or 9am and pick up a ball. What if I reserve a BB, arrive and the previous tenant is on it? Circle around for a few hours? many bareboat charters are likely running at over $50 per hour if you apportion the weekly cost.

...and that is again ignoring the fact that people come to the BVI to CHILL OUT! Not fight over some out-of-towner's poorly conceived basement project.

Our experience is that the charter companies are against BB (Moorings/Sunsail certainly).

For anyone else like us who are against this nonsense, you may be reassured to hear that after 11 days in the BVI we have completely avoided BB and had no issues. We have though used our anchor a lot more than we would have. If they are allowed to get more of a foothold however, it will be to the detriment of all.

Once BB get more than a foothold, demand for boaty ball will skyrocket. Not because of a love affair between the cruiser and BB, actually quite the opposite, because valuable long standing choices that kept people coming to the BVI will be gone. For decades we had choices and flexibility. Sadly this may be destroyed out of BB misguided quest to make it better.


In response to some of my postings on BB, I have been told “so don’t use BB”. You can’t anchor everywhere. If BB did not convert fcfs to BB, them I would not be impacted and would view BB as a positive for the BVI. My opportunity to use fcfs are being reduced. as such, I am being pushed to use BB by the change they introduced.

I have been in the BVI 3 weeks since the introduction of BB. So far, I have not had to use BB even once. I had no issue getting a fcfs ball anywhere including Cooper. This will no doubt change with the continued conversion of fcfs balls.

BB has stated that the benefit to BB is that you can sail all day. I don’t get this. It’s typically not more than a couple of hours of sheltered sailing until the next beautiful destination. What’s wrong with spending quality time at the next destination snorkeling, walking the beach, visit locals beach bars etc.

If I want to sail all day, I would head down island to get longer open water passages. I would not go to the beautiful BVI.

+1

+1

Well said. Seriously, how many times have you done 3 tacks in the SFDC and your crew starts asking when we're gonna get to your destination for the day.

That happens almost every time.

I have been chartering in the BVI's for the past 30 years, and this was my first trip with the BoatyBall option. I'm a believer!!!! Racing for moorings in popular harbors had become a major distraction in recent years. While the 7AM check-in is a bit early, it makes the rest of the day MUCH more relaxing knowing we can spend the day sailing and still have a spot. In addition, the folks at BoatyBall were extremely helpful and friendly in my correspondence with them. I can't say enough good things about them!!!!

You will still be racing at the busy times unless you pay the 436 dollar fee to jump to the head of the line.
G

We liked having Boaty Ball as an option on our last trip. We sometimes have dives booked from specific anchorages and it's nice to not have to arrive at some of them (Cooper especially!) by noon to make sure we have a ball for that night.

The day we sailed to Anegada we left around 1:30 pm because we dove that morning. There was no anxiety because we knew we had a ball waiting for us when we arrived late in the afternoon.

No system is perfect and I wish they'd add more balls for everyone - BB and FCFS!

It’s my understanding there is a premium fee for a very limited number of users. Maybe 6.

So that still allows plenty of BB for the rest of us to reserve at 7am.

We are also a fan of BB because our day isn’t rushed.

Premium users are for the moment limited to six plus everyone who books a charter through boatyball. That has no limit. 6 is a test. I can assure you that if they have more demand they will sell more. In addition your chances of getting a ball at Cooper or Great Harbor during busy times are virtually nil on a cellular internet hookup. As boatyball gains a greater percentage of the mooring balls expect the costs to go higher. Your chances of getting a FCFS ball also will be lower.
Boatyball is about taking your charter dollars that normally went to the BVI economy and diverting the money to a small group of people in the US. In addition instead of spreading the balls throughout a anchorage they have taken the best balls in each location. Where are the promised FCFS boatyballs?
G

How did they take the best balls in each location? Everyone is complaining that at Cooper they have the closest balls but here in CGB they have the balls in the middle of the mooring field and none of the balls in the SE corner which is closest to the dinghy dock and most protect in swells. Exactly which are the best balls? Does it vary by anchorage?

Boatyball will keep growing and will keep raising prices and the government can’t do a thing about it because the Belongers who have the seabed rights are the ones profiting and the overweight charterers will pay anything for comfort. The restaurants don’t really have a say unless they own the seabed.
The few ruin things for the many.

I completely agree. I have chartered in the BVI many, many times and also the Grenadines. I just don't like the concept of Boaty Ball at all. It is eventually going to be a monopoly, which will cause all kinds of problems. If there isn't a ball available, then just anchor. It's amazing to me the number of people who are afraid to have to do this. If you can't comfortably drop a hook, even in a crowded anchorage then you don't need to be chartering a yacht. I do realize that there are some places, specifically Cooper Island/Manchioneel Bay, that you are not supposed to anchor because of the depth, grass beds, etc. Just plan your day to arrive there earlier and get a fee ball. My experience is that even if you're there by 3pm and all the balls are taken, there is always someone leaving a ball late. I've never not been able to get a ball there, even in the middle of the high season. Another option, and one I quite like, is to anchor overnight at Salt Island. Obviously, you have to carefully check the wind/weather and swell forecast, but it's 10-15 feet of water on a sand bottom, and we've been there overnight in a 30 kt blow with no problems whatsoever. If you're nervous, put out two anchors.

I posted this reply on a much older page, but thought it might be worth reposting if I may:


I completely agree. I have chartered in the BVI many, many times and also the Grenadines. I just don't like the concept of Boaty Ball at all. It is eventually going to be a monopoly, which will cause all kinds of problems. If there isn't a ball available, then just anchor. It's amazing to me the number of people who are afraid to have to do this. If you can't comfortably drop a hook, even in a crowded anchorage then you don't need to be chartering a yacht. I do realize that there are some places, specifically Cooper Island/Manchioneel Bay, that you are not supposed to anchor because of the depth, grass beds, etc. Just plan your day to arrive there earlier and get a fee ball. My experience is that even if you're there by 3pm and all the balls are taken, there is always someone leaving a ball late. I've never not been able to get a ball there, even in the middle of the high season. Another option, and one I quite like, is to anchor overnight at Salt Island. Obviously, you have to carefully check the wind/weather and swell forecast, but it's 10-15 feet of water on a sand bottom, and we've been there overnight in a 30 kt blow with no problems whatsoever. If you're nervous, put out two anchors.

Without the proper ground tackle it becomes very difficult To anchor in a crowded mooring field

I guess best in each location is up to individual preferences. The balls they took in CDB are my first choice. They are near the best swimming beach. The most scenic, Close to the dinghy dock and most important where kids want to be. I don’t overnight often in CGB with a North swell but my experience is even the E corner is impacted. The balls they took in CDB used to be the first balls taken. Now they sit empty. Last trip we came into CDB late and they were 2 being used. The rest were empty. The balls are not out in the middle.

Just came back into Pirates Bight and there are thirty or so orange mooring balls just like the boaty balls, but they do not have the "reservation only" sticker. We assumed this was a transition, but the fellow who collected the mooring fee seemed to think these were not going to be BBs... Time will tell.

Did anybody use those balls?

Agree. The few ruin things for the many, as someone stated.

They are absolutely in the middle. I am looking at them as I type this. There are FCFS balls closer to shore, closer to the reef, farther to the SE, farther to the NW, and closer to the dinghy dock. I don't know how they could be more in the middle.

Currently in CGB...from the pussercam

There is no bigger buzz kill then opening this Forum and seeing the the topic "boatyball" up top...

Fortunately Kirk's beautiful picture made it at least bearable

We picked one up. Figured they didn't say reservation only and did not appear on the website. Most had been avoided though. We thought this was just a transition, but the guy who came to collect denied that these would be boaty balls and seemed annoyed at the situation.

I think that those balls say pirates.

We had a reserved Boaty Ball today at Cooper Island we arrive at 3:30 and there is a Moorings 45 Cat on our reserved ball. We get there attention and tell them that we have reserved that ball for the night. The response from the “captain” on the boat was “I’m an experienced captain and the Moorings told us this morning at our chart briefing that the Boaty Ball system is not in use anymore.

What happened after the captain advised that boatyball is not in use anymore?

We told him that the staff from Cooper Island could come out and inform him that Boaty Ball is still in use. He said they didn’t need to do that but the Moorings told him it wasn’t and that is why he was on the ball. After some condescending remarks from him he moved off of our ball.

Just the sort of fun you don’t need on vacation.

Boatyball created a mess. Sorry you had to deal with it.

Probably best to avoid boatyball for the rest of your holiday.

Boycotball..

I wonder how many unreported similar situations there have been

still a buzzkill...until the business's get boycotted or bad reviews nothing will change. Cooper isnt even on our list anymore due to their bad service and bad "parking"...

Moorings needs to tell captains that boatyball is only open for squatting if no one reserves the ball which is easy to determine online...:)

I suspect that once Peter Island adds their 60+ balls and once Saba and Bitter End balls are back in service boaters will relax and trust that reservations will generally not be needed. With so many more options coming on line it is hard to see the need.
We did three weeks in Nov/ Dec with no need for boaty balls and are on board again now. I simply refuse to spoil my holiday with the frantic 7 am on line reservation scramble.

Boycotball,

I noticed a FCFS ball showed up on Btyball tonight, maybe they could redeem themselves by showing all available (open) FCFS balls in the areas that they have moorings, it would require some on-site effort, but the way this is now is just bad juju

We’re heading down there next week. I’ll see what Moorings says about boatyball during the chart briefing!

Looks like Cooper is starting to get hit courtesy of BB and their own bad service

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...land_British_Virgin_Islands.html#REVIEWS

Feb 2 review

I hate to keep this thread going but...

I’m a full time cruiser now and only occasionally come back to the BVI when we have visitors on the boat. After pulling into Great Harbor on Jost today and seeing 7 or maybe 8 FCFS ball with everything else converted to boatyball it drove home the point to me that this is such a bad idea and it certainly makes me not want to spend a ton of time in the BVI anymore.

I understand all the pro arguments for boatyball and anchoring instead, although in places like great harbor the holding is bad and in many other places there is not a lot of room anymore. I also know I’m nott the target audience but this nonsense will convince me to spend less time and money than I normally would. We loved the BVI for 20+ years and it’s too bad something like ruins it for some of us.

I think the only way to make this go away is to convince the owners of the mooring balls that this is costing them and other merchants money. Anyone knows who owns these balls in great harbor?

Click on the mooring on their site and it tells you the owner. I’m not sure how this costs them money.

Because I won’t spend a dime there if it’s a restaurant or shop.

The merchants in Cooper complained that the boatyball people show up late and don’t get ashore to spend money. In the past most of the balls at Cooper would be taken by 2. Now at 5 pm most boatyballs are still empty.
G

I hadnt considered George's point...the other issue is if the boatyballs in the off season are the last used (donut hole) then BB owners lose that revenue to businesses that dont use BB.

At some point they will turn almost all over to FCFS which they should have done in the first place.

Here are todays BB adventures:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/192...62799931712&notif_t=group_highlights

I just returned from a week in the BVI and I have to say, the whole "getting a mooring ball" ruined the trip for me. I tried to anchor a few tim but no chain counter or markings so no idea on scope and didn't want to trust the anchor. I did reserve a boaty ball a couple of times just to allow me to take my time to get to my destination and know I had a place. One day I had reserved a ball at Anegada and arrived to find someone on my reserved ball. They told me they had reserved another ball for another night and would have to move so I took the one they reserved. After this trip, I have decided that I won't go in high season again. It's good to see all the people of the BVI getting all the customers but worrying about if I have a place to stay and then have to divert late in the day caused me more stress than I care to deal with.

Important to verify with charter company PRIOR to booking, amount of chain and how marked. Chain counter nice as well. Should also have a pretty good idea of scope based on angle of anchor rode.

I completely agree with Dennis - s/v Toes in the Water. We too are cruisers now and this whole boatyball fiasco is very off putting.

We do not mind taking a mooring when needed, even though we would rather anchor, however we do not wish to feel stressed reserving a mooring early in the morning, only to find a squatter on our reserved mooring later that day, then having to have words with the occupant. Nor do I wish to race to a mooring field hoping for a FCFS ball early in the day versus taking our time with a lunch or snorkel stop before arriving at our overnight destination. How to ruin a vacation.

With all this said, I'm having to convince my husband to return to the BVI as its not his favorite place to sail, but I wish to return. I have not shared the contents of this thread with him, but it has me worried. I have a feeling we will end up cutting our trip to the BVIs short and moving on. Very sad.

How about Bty Ball splits the day - 11-2 for lunch/snorkel stops, 2-11 for over night. It would increase Cooper's business and spread out the demand

It would also double the number of times per day the reservation holder & a squatter could be arguing over a ball. George C called it right months ago: these guys have been gradually and steadily increasing their money grab. Their business model has given boaters the choice between the 7:00 am stress they created, competing for the fewer FCFS balls when they arrive at their destination, or now paying $400+ a week for an "upgraded" membership fee to avoid the stress & FCFS shortage they also created.

In 18 years and a few hundred nights on board, I rarely was concerned about racing to get a ball, other than at Cooper, and i just planned my Copper stops to get there early. The only way this is going to get solved is for boaters to express their views in person to the ball owners & vote with their shore-side dollars.

I will not go down in high season until North Harbor is back to normal capacity. That will likely mean I skip the BVI this year.

And one more point, Jost is my favorite place to check in but it’s a lot tougher with only a handful of fcfs balls now. We usually grab a ball, check in, and move on. Unless you’re willing to squat on a boatyball that’s a bit tougher now.

I’ve make it a point to thank the merchants with fcfs balls and to go have a brief civil chat with the owners of the boatyball balls that I won’t be spending my money at their bar.

Tom trying to communicate the problems to BB is useless, they have a business and an agenda and they really don’t care about anyone’s opinion.
The charterers have to let the Moorings/Sunsail, Dream Yacht, Conch chowder, TMM etc or whomever you charter with.

We were just down there last week, and it's a mess. We were at Cooper Island at 12:30 on Friday, and there are only about 8 first come first serve balls and they were all taken. They're in the far north and south ends of the anchorage. The rest of the anchorage is covered with Boaty Ball moorings, and there were only a handful of boats on them of course at that time of day. I talked to several people who had half of their crew on their phones at 6:58 in the morning and the balls at Cooper were gone by about 30 seconds after 7. Now that's a hell of a way to spend a relaxing vacation, isn't it? Besides costing Cooper Island a bunch of money in lunch business, the whole concept is offensive to me. They should absolutely not be allowed at all in a bay where the is no anchoring like Manchioneel. I've been going to BV I since 1980. This past week was my 22nd trip. There have been a lot of bad changes there over the last decade, and Boaty Ball is one of them.

Us too, and agree completely.

I didn’t mean communicate with BB, they don’t own the balls, the local businesses in each anchorage do. And, I doubt the charter companies would have much influence.

Who has the BB concession at Great Harbour, JVD (i.e. who to radio or call for help from when the inevitable squatter is on your reserved ball at 5 pm with daylight fading and their crew somewhere ashore?).

You can find this info on the site under each ball -

just to grind your gears, yesterday guy asked me if he would be charged as he had taken a FCFS ball because he was waiting on his booked boatyball to become free, now 2 balls in use

This was exactly my feelings and I had the same experience. I was leaving cooper when a couple of young men told me I could have a yellow ball. I got lucky

Cooper's a mess. No fun witnessing the dog eat dog mentality as we watched the cats racing through the mooring field trying to secure the last fcfs mooring..let alone the hazard the racers pose to swimmers, boats, etc. and this was at 11 am! So sad.

As long as they are making money, they are not going to care what everyone writes on here...

I cant see how Cooper is doing well out of this. I was on a FCFS ball at Cooper by 1130am yesterday (2/12) as I was avoiding a few squalls that were passing down the channel... 1) there were more than a few FCFS balls open at that time, and more importantly 2) a good 75% of the Boaty Ball moorings were also open, and remained open till well into the late afternoon. So - I am thinking that Coopers lunch trade at least is taking a beating as a result of people just not showing up! Sooner or later someone will figure this out.

We’re here now and I don’t understand the point of BB. We got very lucky once to snag a ball at 7 am. But BB is only available in a few locations. It seems better to me to plan the trip carefully and get up early each morning to snag a non-BB. Also, the orange balls at Norman are not BB.

In full agreement. Boatyball is pointless and cause stress and aggravation for their own benefit.

We are at Cooper this morning— we were very lucky to grab a non-BB early this morning while someone was leaving. Right now all of the non-BBs seem to be taken, and all but 3 BBs are empty. I’ve watched 5 boats come through looking for a ball and then depart. It appears to me that the only way to snag a BB reliably is to ante up the $400 advance reservation fee. Whole thing seems like a racket and it’s a shame to see half the bay at Cooper empty, with plenty of BB’s open, while people come in unsuccessfully looking for a mooring.

Scenario: You are on a BoatyBall mooring overnight and the wind the next day is more than 30 kts. According to many charter agreements, you are not supposed to leave the mooring with wind > 30 kts, but you are unable to book a BootyBall at 7am when you try...

We were in Jost Great Harbour 3 weeks ago, and although the wind wasn't predicted to go above 30 kts, it was close, so we decided to stay but we were unable to reserve a BoatyBall at 7am. However, we were very lucky to snag a FCFS ball at about 9am -- only 3 FCFS balls freed up that day, and the other 2 were taken by dingies before the boat left the mooring.

At Cooper, all the FCFS balls were gone before we got there (very early in the day), and all of the BoatBalls were reserved, so we were forced to anchor in less than ideal conditions.

I don't like the BoatyBall system.

I agree

I don't like BB either but I am not familiar with the 30 kt provision you mention. What companies have this in their contract? The Moorings does not.

If you have an old Moor Secure receipt? I have one and it says "These moorings are NOT designed for storm conditions and if surface winds exceed 40 knots all vessels must vacate their respective mooring."

BB is getting torn up on Facebook now...at some point the BVI business's that own/lease the specific moorings will recognize they are negatively impacted financially and reputationally through reviews and this silliness will end.

BB is destroying the Tourism product, it’s a nuisance and it goes against all the ads promoting BVI tourism
Personally I don’t give a dam because it doesn’t affect me and in a way it makes laugh the way the BVI government can’t see through this facade

I'm not following... the BVI govt has nothing to do with boatyball as far as I know. Are you suggesting otherwise?

BVI is a small country with most people related to someone in the government, they must know that BB is ruining their tourism package by irritating charterers.

Negative sentiment towards boatyball is rising. I wish boatyball would forever leave the bvi. The fcfs system was far better. I don’t recall reading posts online about problems with the fcfs system.

At some point the government has to realize that boatyball is taking BVI tourist money straight out of the BVI to the US. Perhaps a simple change to seabed licenses. “All income collected via a seabed license must be retained in the BVI.”

My charter was through Navigare, and they have a 30 kt limit in the charter agreement. I do realize that the balls usually have a 40 kt limit, so I guess the idea would be that we would return to Road Town if the forecast was more than 40 kts.

George, while BB keeps a percentage, the mooring ball fees go to the mooring ball owners, who are BVI families or businesses. The government collects taxes on seabed licenses. And it’s not very different from someone who rents out a property with a dock and gets paid outside the BVI.

I continue to hold out hope that once North Sound is restored along Sopers Hole and Trellis Bay improving their onshore offerings BB will die a natural death. I understand the mooring owners preference for a credit card payment system instead of daily cash collection. That could be solved by a FCFS app where sailors pay on line for a numbered mooring - like parking lots in the US. Some computer programmer here on TTOL should develop that app. There is a market.

Except now with the "special pricing" ball owners still get $30 while BB get $71

That’s the part I can’t fathom: why doesn’t the Tourist Board take a fraction of their substantial subvention and develop an app for mooring field owners to get paid by credit card? They could tie it to mooring maintenance. BB stepped in because there was a vacuum. Can’t really blame them.

Please keep up the fight. We will visit you every trip because you recognize that there is a right way to do business.

Just back from a 10 day charter. As has been reported numerous times-Cooper was a problem. We did eventually luck out and snag a FCFS ball when somebody left. Leverick was another problem. It seemed as FCFS balls were open, but pulling up on them 3 were missing a proper painter. We ended up tying to a ball with no painter. They did knock off $10 bucks both nights for that LOL. Great Harbor on Jost seemed like it was all BB. One of the crew did snag the last remaining BB when we got there mid-day. Crew was also told one more than once that a certain big charter company was reserving BB for clients. FWIW

We had our first experiences with boatyball last weekend. Wo do not expect to ever use them. We anchored at Leverick. No boatyballs at Norman, we used one of the new orange moorings in the Bight. I dove the mooring and it looked new. We are headed to Diamond Cay and Great Harbor this weekend.

Kirk, we just wanted to address your last comment. We check the logs on a regular basis and there is not a "large" charter company making reservations for all their clients. We limit each user account to one reservation per day. This prevents one user from making multiple reservations.

We have been averaging 350 users per day on the application. We know this can make it difficult to get a reservable mooring. We are hopeful as places like Saba, BEYC, Marina Cay, Peter Island Resort, etc.. start opening back up that this will help elevate the current demand for mooring balls in the BVI.

The number of boats on the water are at pre Irma levels but the number of maintained moorings and dock slips are significantly less. Boats have fewer places to go and this is increasing demand. We are excited for new bays to open up!

That's why I said FWIW. Simply stated what people told us while we were there.

One more than once is 2. So, they were told twice? Doesn't seem so credible. Most likely people upset they didn't get a BB first.

I guess it's follow me around and disagree with my posts day. Did I kick your dog or something?

If you did, you'd not hear from me online.

Lost the boatyball lottery today for Cooper. Logged on and ready to hit enter at 7 am. No luck. Went to Cooper early to make sure I could get a ball. Arrrived at 12:30. For the first time in 30 years could not get a ball arriving at that time. At least 12 empty boatyballs. 5 boats waiting. No happy people. Found out people are creating multiple boatyball accounts and everyone on the boat tries at 7 AM. The entire thing is a sad mess.
G

I can not confirm this, but I also heard that people are having their family/friends, in the states with fast internet, book the ball for them. Much better chance of getting one with a fast internet connection.

I can confirm it. I have done it myself for friends in the BVI. With a fast fiber optic connection I had good success.
G

That would really suck if you were the friend and lived West Coast. 3am during high season....

BB gets their money either way.

Wow this is great, maybe they should have toll booths put in all harbors just so you can enter. That would add to the BVI experience.
From Nature’s Little Secrets to Headaches.

I'm guessing they wouldn't be a friend for long....LOL

We met some folks who ponied up the $400 to BB for advance reservations. Split between the 4 couples on their boat it was $100 per couple. They said that reservations at every spot were wide open the day before and they thought it was worth it, especially at Cooper and Great Harbour.

Ok John Wayne....

Sheesh, lighten up Francis

At the end of January we had no problem getting a ball anywhere except Cooper and Jost Great Harbour. That's only 2 nights out of a week that we could have used the advanced reservation feature. $100/couple is very steep for just 2 nights. Plus you'll probably wind up using BoatyBall at other islands when there would have been available FCFS balls, so you spend an extra $10/night unnecessarily. Yes, I get it, you get some peace of mind from having a reservation, but for me this would be more than offset by the haunting knowledge that BoatyBall swindled me out of yet another $10.

Great advise. Thanks for your input.

All righty then, addressed to no one in particular, this one is done.