The Moorings Boats Seized

I hear something is going on with Moorings charter boats been seized by BVI customs and everyone who hasn't left base being stuck there until further notice.

Failure to obtain proper permits licenses etc....

Anyone hearing the same/different?

That is unfortunate, if true, for those heading out.

Also all sunsail boats have been seized by customs. No boats are leaving the base. Many unhappy customers!!

This is very bad for public relations with tourists and especially those that booked boats that cannot be used.

Saw that on BVI Abroad FB page. Crazy how The Moorings let it get to that point.

Yes, Moorings but also curious how BVI customs can do this. Unless The Moorings has been warned for a while and this was a last resort. Does seem very helpful to a region still reeling from hurricanes and covid.

It’s the same issue DYC had two days ago. They are going around to all the charter companies and inspecting. I am not sure the specific issue. It is not for non payment of customs money. It’s safety gear. Might and I say that because it’s a rumor at this point deal with propane systems.

Apparently safety and documentation issues...Moorings wont take new charters between now and April 15

Much of it is safety related. Requirements shared in October. TMM was on it asap - we ended up with some outlays but everything was completed well in advance of deadlines.

MIDiver - Your boat? Can you share about what sort of things needed to be addressed?

I called Sunsail and they assured me none of their boats have been seized however a few have been "tagged" and all the documentation has been submitted to the BVI Govt.

Sounds like lax paperwork combined with typical BVI government jackboots.

I get my Cat May 9 so hopefully all will be well by then.

Husker - There were new safety requirements. We had a brand new boat but TMM added the new items - would need to get out the list - was charged to our account months ago. TMM’s entire fleet is in compliance.

This is very concerning. I have chartered a Cat for 8 of us which starts on April 2nd through Sunsail. Does anyone know if this type of situation is resolved quickly?

Mhdonohue, I’m guessing that not much gets resolved quickly in the BVI. Some of the locals here may have a view.

The SS agent I spoke with made it sound like they are just waiting on the Govt to approve the paperwork. I would hope this process is done in the 3 weeks before your charter begins.

I'm on a new 454P with the flying bridge and water maker. Pretty excited about being able to take Hollywood Showers and not worry about getting water 1/2 through the charter like usual.

The parts the Moorings needs are awaiting clearance from BVI customs. They are putting out the majority of boats were in compliance. I don’t know what a majority means from a percentage basis.

I'm hearing the same as George. Should be resolved in the next couple days. There are charter guests currently stuck at base so hopefully the "island time" factor can be bypassed under the circumstances. Also heard that while crew on yellow tagged crewed boats were being forced to find other quarters, there was an agreement reached to allow them to stay aboard. Don't know the details of that yet.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did talk to Sunsail today who said only a few boats on their fleet were subjected to this seize. I feel bad for the charterers where caught in the middle of this. I bet a few pain killers will be thrown back tonight.

This is exactly why longtime sailors avoid the BVI's now! Sad.

The government does seem to have run amok and a better solution might have been a fine for non compliant boats but let them go out. Ruining someone’s vacation is not smart on a island where tourism is a major part of the economy. On the flip side I understand the requirements were made known last October. It’s possible they were unable to comply with a 400 boat fleet but there certainly was advance notice.
This whole thing reminds me of the ridiculous fishing rules they now have for charterboats. It should be quite simple. A extra block on the cruising permit. Fishing, yes or no. If yes you pay an additional 75.00. The government would rake in the money.

I recently had to renew the TIP for my boat. It use to be the the marina could do it for you and it was a easy simple process. Now they insist that the owner does it not a representative.. After over a month of the rules changing such as different documents needed than what are currently listed then requiring some of them to be notarized. All must be attached to the renewal request in a single PDF file. After 10 documents I finally got the renewal. I have owned a boat there for over 20 years and never was it such a difficult process.

News article. Take it for what it's worth... The comments are the real reason to read any BVI news article.

Utterly disgusted..just the best way to show "BVI Love" after Irma and Covid...

It sure isn't a way to help get toursim back on its feet. Kudos to Conch, BYIYC, TMM, Voyage and others for complying on time. Fining The Moorings, Sunsail & Dream would have driven home the point and penalized the culprits without screwing up 100's of people's vacations and creating the risk of some seriously bad word of mouth.

Too late for the bad word of mouth....cue " Send in the clowns"...

Recent post by a BVI news channel: https://www.facebook.com/jtv55/videos/1123922171766200

184 boats unable to be hired. 46 DYC, balance Moorings.

Funny part is that the propane detectors are on island awaiting release from BVI customs.

Watching the press conference https://www.facebook.com/BVIGovernment/videos/336867768257013 I think I'm starting to get a picture of how this happened. This is IMO of course.

* A number of BVI paperwork and safety requirements have gone unenforced for years.
* A UK shipping audit highlighted enforcement gaps.
* VISR committed to closing these gaps by now demanding compliance.
* Customs/VISR set a deadline for completion.
* Some charter operators took the tack of "we're doing this as quickly as possible, supply chain, labor, etc." and gambled that authorities were bluffing.

George, I'm gathering pretty much the same thing. I would add cost-cutting which reduced the staff available for compliance, and then Covid staff shortages. Basically they gambled and lost.

Moorings has posted an update on their website: https://hub.moorings.com/operations-update

"Mutual respect".."longstanding trust and partnership"...not quite what I am hearing down here!!!

I noted from the 90 minute press conference a few days ago that it appeared that the top Moorings guy didn’t previously know the government leadership in charge of customs and registry. It seems they just met as they are trying to work through the issue. Seems like they should have known each other…

The mean spiritedness of the BVI government to people trying to charter in the BVI is beyond belief. Why visit the BVI if your holiday can be completely ruined by capricious bureaucrats?

One wonders whether BVI officials read this board or any others?

I suspect (speculation!) part of the issue is that some of the shipping regulations aren't really readily applicable to pleasure boats in the charter fleet. Classifying them as "commercial vessels" brings a lot of largely irrelevant and onerous paperwork and regulations that has been tacitly ignored by both sides until the UK audit.

As far as Moorings being slow in "complying", it is also very possible that the rate at which they can get these boats' licenses sorted out involves submitting paperwork applications to BVI agencies which may not turn them around in the expeditious manner that the situation requires.

With so little known, I for one am not rushing to judgment on any side.

I just received a call from Moorings. 5000 not available and asking to swap to a 4500. Said they were only getting 5 boats licensed per day. Said they would offer a refund of $3,750. Boat we had reserved was 0-1 year old. Does this seem like a reasonable offer?

Only if 4500 is same age.

4500 is a nice model. I think the bareboat versions of both are 4-cabin. How many people will be going? Seems like a fair trade off if you don't need the extra common space.

We have 7 people total. Four teens and two parents + we hired a skipper.

So you guys in 3 cabins and the skipper in the 4th? Could be a little snug, but workable if the teens are cool sharing cabins. Did you look into a crewed 5000? That would give you 4 cabins and more space in general....plus a captain AND cook (in the 5th). More expensive, yes, but maybe you could negotiate a good deal under the circumstances.

According to Moorings website, the skipper will sleep in the forepeak so that should leave 4 cabins for the family. When we originally booked, the crewed 5000 wasn't available. Good point that it could be available now with all of the disruptions.

Pretty rough putting the skipper in the forepeak, but I guess its done although I think that is something one would want to make the skipper has agreed to in advance. When is your trip?

Yeah, it's all over their website about where the skipper will sleep. Our first time so no idea how big it is, just following Moorings directions. We're scheduled for Saturday at noon.

It is called the coffin for a reason. Small.

I have stayed in the coffins many times. It’s not great but all you do is sleep there. The newer boats have AC up there which is a big help if you have a rainy night.

They are offering you about the rack rate difference in price. I would tell them that’s acceptable however you want a 2000 dollar credit toward your next charter. Is this a 4500 or 4500L? What are your dates?

It's a 4500 they are offering. We go out Saturday for 7 nights

If you were on a zero to 1 year old boat and they are putting you on a older 4500 I would definitely ask for the credit.

Well, at least you get to go sailing. Others have not been quite as fortunate.

WHY Credit which locks you into the company for another trip? (Do you really want to repeat with Moorings after this management issue? If answer is "yes" , then credit okay... If ""maybe" or "No", then credit is bad deal).

You should get a refund.... 3750 that they offer is not equal to the difference in older 4500 model and a newer 5000. I would ask for $5000 cash refund.

If you settle for a "Credit" , demand that the credit is transferrable to other individual.

Called them back today. Said the boat is a 4600L 0-1 yr old. Couldn't find this on their website and then the rep said it's actually a 4500L. Told me the refund would be $2,813 and no other boats were available. I told him that the rep that called yesterday left in their msg that they were offering a $3,750 refund. Told me I would have to talk to the head of sales who wasn't available or he could just cancel the booking right now. We paid $28,500 base price for the boat originally.

$28,500! for how long? I just did a search on the Moorings web site for a 1-3 year old 4500 and was quoted app. 15k for 7 nights. admittedly did not include captain but that should run 300-400/day?

That's just the price for the boat. Skipper is additional. It's a 7 night trip.
I'm on hold right now. No one ever called me back.

After being hung up on 3 times and an hour on hold finally got ahold of the rep who called yesterday. Tried to again say the refund would be $2,813. I let her know that yesterday she left a message saying $3,750 was the refund. She agreed to that but wouldn't give any additional refund. Said that only the VP in the UK could authorize that and it was 9pm there. She said she would try him tomorrow and call us back. Tried to give a future credit of 15% instead of the refund. I told her this might be our first and last Moorings trip based on our experience so far and would only take a refund.

Noncrewed?

For that, you could get 2 newer boats (2022) in the 45-46 ft range from several boutique companies(30-40 boat fleet size) which are equipped nicer and maintained much better.

maybe a new thread for this??

We paid $28,500 base price for the boat originally.

Will they give you a 100% refund since they can't provide what you contracted for? I'd call around and see if anyone else happens to have a boat available, maybe an independent crewed charter.

It doesn't sound like you're being treated fairly. Their need to conserve cash shouldn't be at your expense.

I believe $28 K likely get a fully crewed cat in 45-50 ft range..... possibly including gratuity (But I haven't checked pricing recently)

I am trying to figure the price out myself. A brand new boat which is what he booked is generally about 21k this time of year. Generally there are discounts and 15% is the norm so 18k. That might not apply this spring since bookings are beyond good. Call it 20k. Add 360 in cruising taxes, 50 for a park permit, 650 for insurance. Call it 21 to 22 without discounts. Add in s sleepaboard and maybe 24.

I agree with some of the other suggestions here - Maybe go through a broker Like Virgin Island Sailing and ask them if there are any crewed charters for your dates,or at least boats with a captain. Take the money and run if you an secure something else for your dates. There must be a significant price premium for a 50' compared to a 45' and moorings doesn't seem to be crediting you back that premium in good faith. Disappointing to say the least. Good luck - let us know how it goes!

I think some of you have not priced fully crewed 50 foot cats this time of year. I tried to help someone get a trip booked and the numbers were astounding unless it was a very dodgy boat.

Thanks for everyone that commented.

Finalized things with Moorings. They originally offered $3750, then $2800, then $3750+15% off future trip. I asked for $5500 cash refund no future credit. They came back with Total cash refund of $7400. Told me they now have plenty of boats now just not the one we paid for.

For those that commented about the price. It was over $30k with the skipper. This is spring break week and with kids in school we don't have a choice when to travel. From my recollection, there weren't many choices of boats when I booked in February.

Wow. With charter rates escalating I am increasingly glad that we took a leap of faith last year and purchased. Then again we don’t need a crewed boat, but still…..

Fair point Rgensler - depends on dates and availability. Glade you were able to get the issue resolved to your satisfaction! hope you and your family have a great trip!

I was a guest on KSVY today and talked about this situation on the air. This was a rat$uck that no one needed brought on at the worst time possible....that punished tourists who had invested $$$ to come to the BVI's. I have seen some horrific Gov moves over many decaded as a journalist..but this takes the (Johnny ) cake..

Glad you are able to get things worked out. You will have a great time.

I see a lot of comments laying blame on the BVI government for ruining people's vacations. Please realize that the Moorings definitely should receive at least 1/2 of the blame if not more. Skirting of safety requirements has been going on in the BVI for more than a decade (since the time that the BVI government decided that all charter boats should follow the MCA small commercial vessel code.)

Specifically, safety gear is purchased for one vessel, inspectors board, look around and the vessel passes inspection. The following day, all the safety gear from vessel number #1 is taken from vessel #1 and placed on vessel #2. Vessel #2 then passes inspection, but vessel #2 has no safety gear when you show up for your charter.

They choose on a regular basis to put your safety in jeopardy to save a few bucks, then blame the BVI government for their unsafe business practices.

And this is not just a BVI issue. I just chartered with the Moorings in the Exumas and the boat was presented to me with 2 type 1 PFD's for 6 people. They told us that they didn't have any more... It should be embarrassing for them, but it's not. When I asked why the didn't have life jackets, they just stared blankly. Luckily I was able to borrow 4 from a friend who is cruising the Bahamas.

I hope you all are able to get on a boat when you show up for your charter. I hope you get the boat you reserved. I hope it has safety gear and is in good working order.

Please know if it isn't, the Moorings chose to do this to you. And they will give you the old bait and switch when you are standing on the dock wondering what happened to your dream vacation.

I have been associated with the Moorings for a long time as a owner. I am sorry that your experience was poor in the Bahamas. I have probably done over 100 chaters or owners weeks with them. I have never not had life preservers or any other normal safety gear. The issues the Moorings had were specific to a few things. They certainly need to take blame but in there defense they had certified more boats under the new rules at the deadline than almost all the other charter companies combined. The specific issues they had were propane detectors on older boats and registration documentation on the boats. Owners are responsible for renewing yearly registrations and forwarding those documents to the Moorings each year. A lot of owners did not bother forwarding the registrations and the Moorings was lax in pushing those owners to supply the documents. Without those the boats could not be registered. The last big batch of propane detectors sat in BVI customs for a extended period of time before being released.
The process of presenting the documents to the BVI government and getting a boat inspection scheduled was very slow. Lots of fault to spread around and the Moorings does not deserve absolution however certifying 400 boats on what is basically a hand delivered 1 boat at a time process verses 30 boats is quite a different level of complication.

I am not a conspiracy theory guy..but..the propane detectors sat in customs "for an extended period of time" and then the boats got seized because they didnt have the propane detectors that the BVI Gov was tying up in customs?? Am I the only one that smells a rather large rodent that's feasting on the golden goose?

IMO nobody knows enough about the situation to pass judgement, doesn't seem to keep people from speculating and blaming who they would like to see blamed.

We have chartered from Moorings at least 5 times (4 in BVI, 1 in Antigua) and never been short of life preservers. On the last charter two weeks ago, all the life preservers were brand new and they also supplied several blow up flotation jackets for snorkeling.

We bring our own inflatable PFDs because they are more comfortable for extended use. Our experience is that American Airlines is cool about this.

Inflatable PFD’s are allowed as carry on luggage however it’s best to go to the TSA sight and print out the rules as many TSA agents don’t understand their own regulations.

You may bring a life vest with up to two CO2 cartridges inside, plus two spare cartridges in your carry-on or checked bag.
Even if an item is generally permitted, it may be subject to additional screening or not allowed through the checkpoint if it triggers an alarm during the screening process, appears to have been tampered with, or poses other security concerns. The final decision rests with TSA on whether to allow any items on the plane.
You may not transport CO2 cartridges without the associated lifejacket.

Have chartered with Moorings countless times in BVI and never had any issue with audit of safety equipment which I need to do as licensed captain...

Echo posts regarding safety equipment on Moorings boats. Been chartering regularly since 2008 and never had issues with missing safety equipment.

I think some are missing the noise about "safety equipment"? Part of the process just like any hull in commercial use in US waters. First the boats registration, documentation, and paperwork must all be in order and submitted. Only then can a visit be scheduled with USCG be scheduled for an on boat inspection. The BVI is simply catching up to where Florida and rest of the US has been for many decades. Not an expert on the full set of BVI safety inspection rules. But, I have only been on a few BVI charter boats where the PFD's where actually labeled with the boat name. Many of the boats are equipped with PFD's for recreational use and not the type most authorities require for commercial open water operation. Then where are the PFD's stored. Stuffed down below out of the way is usually a fail. But the real issue is many of the large fleets did not or could not get their paperwork and fees in order to even schedule the onboard safety inspection. Yep, there is some local job creation in there. Some protectionist regulation to keep some of the none BVI boats away. But, America has enforced those type of rules with no forgiveness since before most of us were born.

PA-Ron. - This is incorrect and misleading.

The USCG inspection requirement only applies to Passenger Vessels over 100 GRT carrying more than 12 passengers, and Small Passenger Vessels less than 100 GRT carrying more than 6 passengers.

There is NO USCG inspection required for vessels to operate as a Charter Vessel (no crew, with up to 12 passengers) in the USVI, Florida or elsewhere in the US.

The Charter Vessel needs a USCG Certificate of Documentation, which just establishes that vessel is 100% owned by a US citizen or a corporation/LLC that has majority US ownership. The USCG has a basic list of safety equipment that must be onboard depending on boat size, but this list of safety equipment also applies to ALL recreational vessels operating in US waters. Of course the USCG can choose to board and inspect any vessel for compliance at any time.

The USCG safety equipment requirements for Charter Vessels & Recreational vessels do not include the items that have been recently mandated by the BVI government, such as propane detectors or high water bilge alarms.

I would be interested to see the full list of BVI safety requirements for charter vessels. I'm presuming they reference or mirror the USCG safety requirements. At a minimum I would expect any BVI charter company, such as Moorings/Sunsail, that allows its vessels to visit USVI (at least in pre-Covid days) would confirm they meet minimum USCG requirements in case of an inspection.

I can say that CYOA Yacht Charters significantly exceeded the USCG safety requirements when they managed my boat. We had 15 readily accessible Type 1 jacket-style offshore PFD (not flimsy Type 2 PFD best used on a small lake), a Type IV throwable horseshoe float as well as a separate offshore MOB pole, 5 fire extinguishers (one in every living compartment). They also met the other USCG requirements which I didn't always find on my 30 some pre-2015 BVI charters (such as unexpired flares, functioning nav lights, functioning air horn or whistle, book of International Navigation Rules, pollution placards).

Slightly off topic, but what is the extent of USCG authority in BVI waters? I've always been curious about this. I know they handle distress calls throughout VI waters from their Puerto Rico base, but maybe its just comms coordinating local response. I don't recall ever seeing a USCG vessel in BVI waters. Do they patrol all the VIs? Can they stop and inspect vessels in the BVI?

They have no authority in the BVI.

Here is the USCG Cutter Joseph Doyle (WPC 1133) anchored in Cane Garden Bay for the night 9 April 2021.

The USCG and BVI do cooperate on drug interdiction (and I think human smuggling). USCG has over 2 dozen counterdrug bilateral agreements and operational procedures with partner nations including the UK and many Latin American, South American and Caribbean countries. Quoting from a USCG annual report "These agreements enable the Coast Guard to: board suspect vessels, facilitate interdictions in underpatrolled territorial waters of partner nations, deter illicit activity in the littoral regions, and coordinate interdiction and apprehension operations in the Western Hemisphere Transit Zone."

This story describes a USG cutter seizing 1700 kg of cocaine tossed off a go-fast boat near Anegada.
https://www.bvibeacon.com/tag/drug-bust/

This story describes USCG contacting BVI police for permission to follow a suspected drug smuggler from US to BVI waters. https://www.284media.com/local/2021...s-on-the-run-says-commissioner-matthews/

Thanks Jason and BaardJ! Gotta love TTOL.