Cane Garden Bay Dinghy Dock...

The thread on the breakwall reminded me of something I wanted to put to the forum... Any of us who have frequented the dinghy dock there recently must be aware of how quickly its condition is degrading. What is it going to take to get this dock back into reasonable condition so that it can once again be considered non-destructive to the dinghy's that we so depend on for our source of travel?

I've been going to Cane Garden Bay and tying to that dock for 4 years and never had a single problem even when there was swell... this year my dinghy has been damaged in both my most recent visits, and I'm sorry but if I have to fix my dinghy every time I go there because the dock is falling apart, it's going to end up off my list. I would really hate for that to happen.

It seems like the local community has no interest in repairing it... I guess they get enough business from the cruise ships so we don't make enough difference... I'm not entirely sure, I just know there is a problem, and it seems to me like it should be fairly easy to fix if someone actually addressed it.

Personally, I would even volunteer my own time and possibly some funds to the cause if we could put together a team to nail some new boards onto it and give it some proper cleats... how hard can this be?

The last time I had guests there, I had another boat load of friends that wanted to go ashore for the Happy Hour party, but said they wouldn't chance it because the dock had screws sticking out everywhere from where boards had broken off, and nobody wanted to have to pay the charter companies for dinghy loss or repair... that was only one boat, I can only imagine there are many others of the same opinion.

I'd be interested to know of others experiences and opinions, and I'm certainly willing to put my hand in first to help if there is any kind of interest at all in helping put this dock back in shape enough to keep Cane Garden Bay on our travel list. At least we're coming up on a good season to do it with calmer seas... if we could gather some local volunteers, maybe even the local bars who benefit from the charter boats would help with the cost of materials... Just an idea... Thoughts?

Rick,
The swells in January took out those lower protective rails. My son and I pulled them out of the water and pulled them up the beach. They were destroyed by dinks tied to the dock when they shouldn't have been. The trough between swells was low enough to allow dinks under the rails, followed by swells breaking over the top, you get the picture. We were amazed that people were using the dock in those swells, even after being waved off. The 2 typical responses we got were 'It's not ours" or "it's insured". Pulled 2 dinks out from under Quito's. The last set of rails put on there were done by Conservation and Fisheries Dept,(it was a slooooow process).
I think realistically, the dock should have at least another leg if not a "tee" put on for both added room but also for those who insist on tying up during swells. (Other option during swells is fuel dock.)

I'd love to see it fixed. We had a friend fall through a missing plank this past Nov. She's lucky to not break anything but she had a huge bruise.The plank was still missing when we came back in Feb. but was replaced while we were there... don't know who fixed it. It would be nice if the government maintained some of these "public" docks.

I agree, there are times when you just shouldn't tie up to the dock, problem is you will never stop someone inexperienced from doing it if they don't know any better.

Point is, now the damage is done, and now the dock wreaks havoc on dinghy's even in not so bad conditions. It definitely needs some lower boards replaced to prevent dinghy's from getting locked under it between swells, that will prevent a lot of damage potential on it's own... and putting lots of good cleats out near the end will at least give people something to tie up to that keeps the dinghy's further from where the swells peak into waves about mid-dock. Banging into a dock that has soft sides on it is no problem, but the way it is now is definitely destructive in all but the calmest conditions.

I just don't think it would be that difficult to go in at low tide and screw some new boards down the sides to prevent dinghy's from riding under it, and reinforcing some good cleats topsides so people don't tie to the side boards which in effect rips the boards off whenever the dinghy's pull too hard on them.

I'm no dock expert, but am I wrong in thinking that this could be rectified fairly easily?

We're talking the islands here!

Maybe a letter to the Editor at the BVI Beacon would stir some interest. Especially pointing out A: The cost of a dinghy and B: How much $$$ the passengers in the dink spend.

Last week there where at least 3 blanks missing from the dock. Pretty scary at night walking back from Quito's, everyone was very aware and walked with caution, but I can see that potentially causing someone a major injury.

There are now two planks missing on the dock. Be careful where you step. It needs repair however as mentioned I think the focus is on pleasing the cruise ship crowd and money from yachts is not a priority.

George

Rick,
If you are back in CGB, it would be worthwhile to have a chat with Quito and Val at Myetts. Neither get out on the dock very often, but they both certainly know who to contact and would probably thank you for letting them know.

I think that's a good idea, and I'm in touch with Val on a regular basis... I'm sure if she knew she would probably be able to help in some fashion. But like you said, waiting on any type of governmental red tape to pass judgement, let alone the repairs once approved, would be unbelievably and brutally painfully sloooooooooow!

I bet this job could be done by a small crew of volunteers in 1 or 2 afternoons, certainly well enough to make a substantial improvement... And again, I wouldn't be suggesting if I weren't willing to be part of that crew! I love Cane Garden Bay, but how safe my dinghy is has a huge effect on my comfort zone in how long I stay there... just ask Malcolm, he knows I had to miss out on a great invitation last time he was there because one dinghy had already sunk! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

I'd give you a hand myself, but can't get away until October at the earliest!! Quito even had some lumber off to the side of the deck in March and I'm sure it hasn't gone anywhere.

I'm willing to help with labour Rick.

I always use a stern anchor now to keep my dinghy from going under but I know that isn't an option for most. Anyway, using a stern anchor also has its problems as someone has run over my painter with their outboard and nearly severed it!

Well I can't contribute any labor until May but I do have about a dozen 10" galvanized dock cleats to contribute. Been sitting in the shop for about 20 years but they don't spoil. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Aren't you using those to secure Rutu to the building? SOMETHING is certainly keeping her tied up!

We'll be on island first two weeks in June. If you need manpower, let me know. Hubby always looking for projects that make a difference.

Tortola Lola

P.S. Lucky need pellets or toys? If so, let me know by May 28.

All this uproar about the music fest and now the dinghy dock is for what? Only time I go to CGB is to surf and even then not even for the night... Someone tried to steal our dinghy TWICE from the dock (even when it was locked up!).

Fixing the dinghy dock will only encourage people to tie up to it, which will only lead to more dock damage and more injured dinghies. I can't believe how many people still try to tie up to that dock during the BIG swell events we've had this year and then are surprised to return to find their dinghy upside down on top of the dock or on top of someone else's dinghy!

I saw both things occur this winter, it amazed me, you'd think the waves exploding through the dock floor throwing spray and wood 6' into the air would be enough of a dis-incentive to tie up (or even be near the dock) but I guess if waves breaking across the channel mouth of the bay doesn't deter you, nothing will trigger that instinct of self-preservation!!! Why do people even bother going there when the forecast is calling for 10-12 foot swells out of the NW???

True enough, but just because damage is caused by persons conducting themselves beyond their limit of personal experience... does that mean the rest of us have to suffer the ongoing consequences long after the fact just because the damage has been done and nobody else feels like fixing it? Personally, I'd rather sacrifice a little time and effort and help correct the problem so that we can still frequent some very worthy local establishments, just as we always have... when the weather allows.

And thanks for the offer Mike, stay in touch and I'm sure we'll figure something out. Thanks to the forum for suggestions so far, look forward to hearing anything others!

Good point Rick, I agree completely. If I had a few days off this season I would come down and help bolt some boards to the side of the dock and nail some new planks to the top. But until then I guess people will have to watch where they step! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />

And thanks to you too Lola... so far Lucky is ok, I brought down a 12lb bag of pellets and a new swing and toy for her when I was in Canada last... now I'm still just working on finding a new cage! lol

Not sure I understood what Abouis was saying. Bottom line is that CGB's dinghy dock is dangerous and needs repair. It really doesn't matter what the sea conditions are, the dock must remain safe. CGB is a wonderful place to visit, be it by land or sea, it is very desirable to many visitors. There should be no debate over the repairs. Good on ya Rick for wanting to do something about it. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

This Saturday night is the first of the benefit concerts by Michael Beans, and it's going to be at Myett's in Cane Garden Bay. Don't know who else might be coming, but I'm planning on being there to video the event. Mike, if you or anyone else is there, maybe we can get a few of us together and round up Quito and Val to show them what the problem is and see if they can help find a simple and speedy solution.

Probably be there Rick. Going to St Thomas on Friday to pick up Jean after her flight back from the UK but we should make it back by Saturday evening.

I thought all the businesses in CGB hated the cruise ships because the people don't buy anything?

Why wouldn't (or shouldn't) the charter companies take on maintaining the dinghy dock?

That's a good question, I didn't really think the local area got much from the ships either... but the fact remains that as far as I know, we here are the only ones talking about it, and if anyone there does know of the condition of the dock, they haven't made any move to do anything about it. They always say if you want something done... do it yourself. So I guess, we'll see if somehow we can make a difference here. I'll continue to try and generate interest this weekend if possible, but there's always more strength in numbers.

I'll be down next week - will mention it to anyone who will listen - assuming it is safe to tie my dink on there long enough to go ashore for a drink.. It should be repaired by the stakeholders in the charter industry in CGB ideally - and/or those that end up paying for the damaged dinks. If I owned a bar/restaurant there and I thought I would lose 2 customers a week due to the dock I would be out with a hammer as soon as I found out.

I guess I am the only one that thinks it is ridiculous that Rick has to go to this extreme. CGB is hardly some third world remote area with limited resources. If the area merchants and residents want the charter folks business then they should maintain the flippin' dock. The "not my problem" attitude of this village is exactly why it is in the shape it is in now. I stopped staying there a couple of years ago after a "minor" incident on the beach one evening, yet still continued to visit when on charter. Well, no more, if they can't even maintain the dock then I will take my business somewhere more welcoimng.

CGB has become a paradise lost to me.

I am willing to help in any way I can. I will bring down a box of SS screws. I don't think I can fit the boards into my carry on. Anyone know where we can get some wood and a saw? An electric drill would be nice but I will do it by hand if necessary. I will be in CGB on the 3rd of May with a crew of 6. Let's do it!

Hi Susan

I don't think it's gotten to that extreme just yet... I think it may just be like others pointed out, that the bar owners may in fact not be aware of its condition. Most people aren't aware of their dinghy damage until they return to the dinghy dock, and then they get the heck out of there before anything else happens, so they probably don't go back in and alert anyone to the problem... even I'm guilty of that. I think we just need to give them the benefit of the doubt and mention it to them and see what happens. If they agree that something needs to be done but find that it will be difficult to do in a timely fashion for some reason... then I'm sure it wouldn't take many of us too long to get together and bring some hammers and saws and help things along... maybe even over beers! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

ok then... I'm in.

That was easy ! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Banana.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

With the BVI Tourism Board trying to find "new markets", it is a shame they don't look into their existing clientele and do whatever is necessary to maintain important facilities AND they clients they serve. More spendable dollars per person cross that dinghy dock than the cruise pier. Maybe Mr Walwyn will drop by and take a look one day.

The bridge from the money in my wallet to the pockets of the CGB merchants is that dock. Completely ridiculous to allow it to fall into disrepair.

This dock is the perfect metaphor for the whole of CGB.

Excellent metaphor... I like it! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" /> Well, who knows, maybe somebody will start listening, and realize that if I have to keep one eye on the dinghy at the dock all night, I'm not likely going to recommend to my guests to stay too long if it risks losing our ride home! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Exactly. Crew of 4-8 off a charter boat ashore for dinner and drinks via that dock = a good chunk of change for a business there. It is the access point for that business.

Yes, and my last guests were really partiers... don't even want to know what they spent in CGB that night! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> But having said that, that was the also the night I filmed Kapeye's last performance as seen here...

Happy Hour Video

And also the last time I was there and when my dinghy got punctured again, and why I started this thread! Not only that, there was a lot of TTOL'ers there and I'm sure some of them walked their wallets down that dock too! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

I know someone fell and injured humself on Sunday night as a reslult of missing planks.
There is a new Music fest comittee this year as the govt is now running the fest. There are representatives of all the cgb businesses and government involved and this is the best hope for getting it fixed..I would be very surprisd if something wasnt done before the fest

We meet a guy in Little Harbor, on Tuesday I believe, with a broken leg, said he did it dancing at Quito's on Saturday or Sunday. Wonder if that is the same guy your talking about? He said he did lots of shots of Jaegermister and fell dancing???

Just a thought...

Sounds like one of the main sources of the problem is negligent and/or incompetent charterers tying up their dinghies when they shouldn't. If local businesses, government, and/or volunteers fix the dock now, how long before the next round of knuckleheads cause it to be damaged again? Seems to me that the charter companies should be involved and ought to be given an incentive (positive or negative) to do a better job at screening and/or training charterers.

The charter companies have the most to gain from the BVI being a safe, comfortable, and fun place to charter a boat. They shouldn't get a free ride.

Hmm...wasn't the dock damaged by storm waves? Water is a much stronger force of nature than an inflated bit of vinyl. Maybe dinghies pried the boards loose, but if the dock was maintained properly, the dock would have just shredded the dinks instead.

yes, well good luck with that one... the charter companies still seem to follow the philosphy of "got a credit card?... ok cool, here's your boat!" and "call us when you have problems!"

I don't know how much substance there is to their briefings, but I'm guessing not much since they don't even seem to bother telling them they don't monitor VHF 16... If I had a dollar for every time I had to listen to "Moorings monitors channel 12 and channel 12 only!" <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

You would think the charter companies would be more accountable, especially when someone rips planks off the dock and sinks a dinghy, but doesn't care because "it's insured". Maybe the companies need to hold more of a cash damage deposit instead of just making a sale on extra insurance... I would think that would tend to make people more cautious since you'd think they'd want to get their deposit refunded... which of course wouldn't happen if they damaged something along the way... seems pretty simple...

You'd be surprised how much pressure a dinghy can exert upwards when trapped under something... and I've been there when dinghy's tied too for down the dock close to shore would ride the crest of a wave and literally flex the wood on the dock as the painter tightened up and pulled it back. It's not so much the dinghy itself, it's the shockloads.

On another note... I just noticed the new thread on the BVI Music Fest... didn't want to step on someone else's thread, but maybe if someone went to the website and send a message with pictures of recently damaged dinghy's, someone might pay attention that it is a valid concern if they want visiting yachts to attend.

Had to go back and look, but it was January 3rd that the 2 rail sections on Quito's side came off completely and some damage to the opposite side too http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/s...true#Post935252

I could not possibly disagree with you more. The residents of the BVI have THE MOST to gain from providing a safe and comfortable place for me to charter. This is their home, their livlihood. There are presently plenty of other anchorages in the BVI that welcome charters with well maintained facilities without financial assistance from the charter companies. Frankly, I would bet the "big three", The Moorings, Sunsail, and Voyage, could care less if any of their boats ever sailed into CGB again. No skin off their nose.

Been to many Moorings briefings and 2 things they always tell everyone (but not everyone listens) is:
1. Moorings only monitors channel 12
2. Always used your dinghy anchor when you dock your dinghy to keep it off the dock.

I was thinking more generally, but I believe my point holds for CGB specifically. I'd be willing to bet that more charter boats spend more nights in CGB than any other anchorage in the BVI. They go there for a reason and taking it away may affect how people feel about chartering in the BVI.

Not all residents of the BVI are dependent on the charter industry for their livelihoods. The charter companies are the only businesses in the BVI that are exclusively dependent on charter business, which leads me to believe that they have the most to gain from making chartering safe, comfortable, and fun.

But back to my first point... The charter companies are in the best position to prevent negligent and incompetent charterers from continuing to damage the dinghy dock in CGB. They ought to take some responsibility.

Wow, y'all have me seriously questioning our itinerary. We added and subtracted numerous times to fit in a CGB stop for the express purpose of a visit to Callwood's, a taxi ride up to Bomba's and some fine music at Quito's. Previously we had excluded CGB because of the bad press regarding dinghy theft, etc.

I find it interesting and a bit disturbing that "unregistered" does not seem to get the impact of charter tourism. Sure, charter companies are exclusively dependant on charter business but they hire folks, no? The provisioners, taxis, restaurants, marinas, etc. would disagree with the poster I'm sure. Maybe we should send him GlennA's survey of the amount of $$ spent by tourists!

Not to get argumentative here but I'd be willing to bet that CGB is NOT the most used anchorage in the BVI if trip reports are any indication.

Just my .02.

Go to GGB ! Go to the distillery ! You'll be glad you did. Do all the things you want, and don't let the negative thoughts of one "Unreg" screw things up. It's kinda nice having someone knock CGB cause it saves it for us folks that appreciate the true charm of the BVI and CGB is a jewel. It defines Ilon Time.

Just for the record, when I stay on Tortola, it's almost always in CGB -- one of my favorite places on Earth!

Creating jobs isn't necessarily all it's cracked up to be in a place like the BVI. One of the really big problems that the BVI is dealing with is explosive population growth over the past 15 years or so. Yes, the charter industry has hired lots of people, but mostly new residents for whom the BVI were not prepared with infrastructure, affordable housing, etc. Many decry the increasing crime rate in the BVI -- one of the biggest factors in this, in my opinion, is the too rapid population growth. People don't know each other like they used.

Don't get me wrong. I have made many good friends among new residents in the BVI for whom I am very happy that they've come to the BVI. The bad apples are a very very small proportion. I'm just saying that I think the BVI has grown too fast and that just creating jobs is not always a good thing.

All I said was that the charter companies have the most to gain from making chartering safe, comfortable, and fun. I do understand what the charter companies have done for the BVI in a positive way, but I also think that they should take more responsibility for certain things. Chief among these, making sure that their charterers know what they're doing and are safe, considerate, and non-destructive. There's another big one, too, but I know discussion of it is discouraged here.

What anchorages do you think get more charter traffic than CGB? Perhaps The Bight, but I can't think of anywhere else.

North Sound gets more traffic - in total - than CGB. But, I don't disagree. It is the diversity of anchorages that holds such appeal for the BVI.

I would say the Bight, Cooper, Marina Key, Leverick, Bitter End all get more overall charter activity then Cane Garden Bay. I have never had a issue getting a Ball in CGB.
I do see charterers doing dumb things however in terms of common sense and consideration the locals followed by crewed charterboats are usually worse then bareboats. Watch the locals blasting through a anchorage in the dark in a go fast boat drunk leaving the WillyT and you get a idea of really bad behavior. A fatel accident is simply a matter of time. The crewed boats I think feel enormous pressure to put their clients into specific locations even if they are full so sometimes anchor or do things they should not.
George

The North Sound as a whole would probably get the most of charter traffic in it's anchorages.

Yes, you are correct that it is the resposibility of the charter Companies to insure proper handling and safety while sailing the BVI. I feel that their excuse at this time is the economy and they're having to charter to less capible sailors just to stay afloat. This is not a healthy solution.

I have seen the population explosion, especially on Tortola, and do realize the need for jobs and affordable housing, however Imigration seems to be doing a good job of discouraging this with some of their policies, per some recent posts from people with desires of living the life in the Ilons, I see that this is now very difficult. Better to discourage new residents than to try to create more jobs. HMMMM....Maybe the US should look in to this policy.

As much as I love the Ilons and remark about staying there, I really wouldn't want to make my permenant home there. I lived and worked in Hawaii in the 70s and once I lived there the magic deminished. I think I'll just keep the Ilons as my little secret getaway !!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]There is currently a request into Government for the repair of the Dinghy Dock in Cane Garden Bay. If all goes as planned the dock should be repaired by the end of May. We in the BVI are aware of the pivotal role this dock plays, and many persons are pushing for this much needed repair. Fingers Crossed.. May <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />[/color]

Dare I ask who built the dock in the first place and when it was built?

And why the original builder is not maintaining the dock so it can continue to be used for the original reason it was built?

(edit)"I think you just answered my questions 411. Thanks."

I was under the impression the Gov. built it, and not too long ago. 3 - 4 years ago ? Most of the damage accured this winter with the unusually persistant swell.

So Rick, what happens if you do the repares before the Gov. gets around to it ??? Maybe then thsy would put a T on the end, or perhaps that would make too much sense.

The Government built it in - I'm guessing - around 1998? or so?? For years, we landed our dingy in the sand in proximity to Quito's, we were swamped many times going in. On a number occasions, our dink was underwater - due to high tides - when we emerged from Quito's. I was always amazed that the engine would start after dragging it out of the water and bailing out the dinigy. Those were the experiences that kept us coming back.

We have passed our limit and so we will close this one please feel free to start a CGB Dingy Dock II. I also am distressed that this would be the case...Safety is paramount and with the swim line and north shore location the dock is the only safe access...My home took the Eye Wall of a cat II Hurricane and had my dock repaired about the same size within 30 days....Its not that hard.

I don't know what the charter companies themselves have been saying, but others have excused them in the same way even when times were good -- "Taking responsibility for ___ will directly cost them business or cause them to have to raise their prices which will also cost them business -- either way, they can't afford to lose business." As you say, not a healthy solution. In my opinion, if they can't take responsibility for certain things and stay in business, then perhaps they shouldn't be in business.