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USVI grounding

Posted By: LocalSailor

USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 05:12 PM

The operator of a vessel which destroyed endangered elk horn coral colonies and other sensitive natural resources off the north shore of St. John almost got away.

A vessel, a 43-foot power boat called Heartbeat, grounded on the well-marked Johnson Reef on Thursday evening, July 25, yet was on its way to St. Thomas before V.I. National Park officials caught up with it.

“The incident was reported to us by a concerned citizen who saw it from shore on Thursday evening, July 25,” said VINP Superintendent Brion FitzGerald. “The vessel was trying to get off the reef and someone saw it and called a VINP protection officer.”

VINP officials launched a park boat and caught up with the operator of the vessel which had managed to get off Johnson Reef by that time, FitzGerald explained.

“We were able to get out there as he was heading to St. Thomas,” said the VINP Superintendent. “We stopped him, made contact and brought the boat back here. We had him leave it here tied up to the park dock to do an underwater survey to match any damage to the reef to damage on the vessel.”

While VINP’s investigation into the grounding is ongoing, officials have determined some of the damage caused by the late July grounding, according to FitzGerald.

“Basically the vessel ran about 400 feet across the reef damaging underlying reef structures, and eight elk horn coral colonies — which are listed as threatened on the endangered species list — were broken or pulverized and a number of other species of corals were damaged, broken or torn from the bottom,” he said.

VINP officials have not yet decided whether to charge the vessel operator with criminal or civil charges, FitzGerald added.

“The next step is to decide if we are going to go criminally or civilly yet,” he said. “We are still conducting the investigation but we’ll certainly go after the cost for resource mitigation.”

While it is impossible to repair the reef, VINP officials will try to recoup the cost they will spend on assessing the reef damage, explained FitzGerald.

“You obviously can’t put this reef back together but we’ve had other groundings before where we used the process which allowed us to have the owners pay for the damages and pay for measuring those damages and pay for monitoring and recovery efforts,” he said.

It will be at least a few weeks to a month before VINP officials determine the exact extent of the damage to Johnson Reef from the grounding, FitzGerald added.

Johnson Reef is located off-shore of the Peter Bay point area on the island’s north shore and is marked with at least four bright yellow buoys that display yellow lights at night.

This is from the STJ newspaper 'Tradewinds'
.
I post it only for the information of BVI charterers who may be headed to Cruz Bay STJ to clear into the USVI which seems to be a question that pops up on occasion. Also for charterers who are coming out of STT headed to the BVI.
Johnson Reef is a serious hazard to be aware of and vessels pass inside as well as outside of it and over the years I have seen more than a few vessels hit it, including commercial vessels.
Posted By: LocalSailor

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 05:19 PM

http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/virgin-islands/download/file.php?id=623&mode=view

Not the best chart but a good guideline.
Posted By: Zanshin

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 05:35 PM

I'm wondering how his hull and prop(s) survived 400 feet of reef and perhaps the report might have exaggerated that aspect of the story.
Posted By: Twanger

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 05:53 PM

Quote
Zanshin said:
I'm wondering how his hull and prop(s) survived 400 feet of reef and perhaps the report might have exaggerated that aspect of the story.


It does sound odd.
Perhaps a glancing blow?
Posted By: woodycooper

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 06:36 PM

How anyone could hit Johnson Reef is beyond me. It is well charted and surrounded by yellow markers. My money is on credit card captain. I hope they throw the book at this idiot.
Posted By: Twanger

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 06:45 PM

Perhaps it was dark? The OP article says Thursday evening.

At any rate, I agree with you... it's pretty difficult to miss seeing all the yellow markers and it's on the charts of course.

Of course, remember that a professional operator ran a ferry into the island of St. Thomas a year or two ago. You'd think he woulda seen the island...

And I watched a dingy full of patrons run right into the reef between Neptunes and ARH in broad daylight, and there were little waves breaking on the reef at the time.

Some folk shouldn't be allowed to drive boats... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/titanic.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: woodycooper

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 07:14 PM

Quote
Twanger said:
Perhaps it was dark? The OP article says Thursday evening.

At any rate, I agree with you... it's pretty difficult to miss seeing all the yellow markers and it's on the charts of course.

Of course, remember that a professional operator ran a ferry into the island of St. Thomas a year or two ago. You'd think he woulda seen the island...

Some folk shouldn't be allowed to drive boats... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/titanic.gif" alt="" />


I assume since someone on shore first reported the incident that it wasn't completely dark.

I've heard of many professional / commercial drivers run into objects or other boats, and the reason is they were texting or otherwise not paying attention and letting the auto-pilot drive. That's why you should never get in their way in mid transit.
Posted By: Winterstale

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 07:16 PM

Quote
woodycooper said:
How anyone could hit Johnson Reef is beyond me. It is well charted and surrounded by yellow markers. My money is on credit card captain. I hope they throw the book at this idiot.


<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> Agree.
Posted By: Nutmeg

Re: USVI grounding - 08/22/2013 08:57 PM

Quote
woodycooper said:
How anyone could hit Johnson Reef is beyond me. It is well charted and surrounded by yellow markers.


Someone who was well-lubricated from a day of fun in the sun and probably didn't need no steenkin' charts and markers to show him the way home...
Posted By: camelot

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 02:15 PM

Really? WOW, I can only imagine the credit limit the "CCC" must have had that ran his container ship aground at the Rhone site, and holed his cruise ship in Europe.....

My hat is off to anyone who has never had a careless moment and had something untoward happen -- And to those who can afford to pay cash to rent and/or own their own boat to enjoy the islands...
Posted By: sail445

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 03:12 PM

In 2006 or 7 one of the ferries going to West End grounded itself on the reef at full speed.
Posted By: woodycooper

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 03:19 PM

Quote
camelot said:
Really? WOW, I can only imagine the credit limit the "CCC" must have had that ran his container ship aground at the Rhone site, and holed his cruise ship in Europe.....

My hat is off to anyone who has never had a careless moment and had something untoward happen -- And to those who can afford to pay cash to rent and/or own their own boat to enjoy the islands...


Yes "Credit Card Captain" is a derogatory term. But the term doesn't refer to how a charter was paid for, but rather to the captain's qualifications. As in, what are your qualifications? "I have a credit card"

And does comparing some schmo in a 42' boat to a professional captain on a container or cruise ship mean that everyone makes mistakes? Certainly everyone does!

But I still think it is a bone-headed move to drive over Johnson Reef, and it is the kind of move that could easily have been made by someone whose only qualifications for driving a boat is that they have a credit card. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MissinStT

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 04:37 PM

From reading the article I think this was a private boat not a charter. If I am mistaken then my apologies. But if this is indeed a private craft then the CCC designation doesn't fit. I suspect that Nutmeg is most likely correct. A "local" that had to much fun in the sun.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 07:22 PM

Big misconception, just because you own a boat doesn't mean your qualified or know how to handle the boat, "CCC" are everywhere they own, charter, and are out on the water. Even some "trained" Captains still shouldn't be allowed to be a master of a vessel, just because you got a course cert on bareboating or a USCG 6pack doesn't in any way qualify you to operate safely and efficiently out on the water.
Posted By: capttom

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 07:31 PM

I think part of the problem are the yellow buoys themselves, not a lot of casual captains understand what they signify and steer between them. All a yellow buoy means is that there is something special going on, pay attention. There is a lot of sea room between the buoys and the reef, so someone could well do this for years and not hit anything. Ferry captains run inside there all the time.
In respect to CCCs and relative skill, experience is important but common sense continues to reign supreme. I have watched licensed experienced captains sail trimarans full tilt into the side of Tortola, in one incident in front of my house colliding with a parked car! I don't know whether he had a credit card or not.
Posted By: sail2wind

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 07:50 PM

"All a yellow buoy means is that there is something special going on, pay attention"

A yellow buoy is a cautionary buoy. While I agree with anon about taking a bareboating course, not being an indicator of competence, the USCG 6 pac test is quite encompassing. Being alcohol impaired is not going is not going to help the situation. Perhaps the breaking waves might give the operator a clue to shallow water.
Posted By: capttom

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 08:29 PM

I think that pay attention would fall under the category of caution. There are some countries that use the cardinal system where yellow buoys are marked with black to indicate better passage, where the hazard is, etc, and if coming from one of those places the yellow buoys might confuse. In the BVI for instance there is a cardinal buoy up by the airport, and I know that a lot of captains from the us don't know what it means, they just pass it to port going west and forget about it.
There used to be a yellow buoy outside Cruz bay, and people from all over would go around it , regardless of where they were coming from or going to. It was there simply to indicate that you were entering a national park and would be fined for groundings. But people rounded it just the same.
Posted By: SeaSeaRider

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 08:34 PM

Quote
Anonymous said:
Big misconception, just because you own a boat doesn't mean you're qualified or know how to handle the boat, "CCC" are everywhere they own, charter, and are out on the water.


True statement. Note the privately owned new Lagoon 450 that was run up on the Sandy Spit reef recently by the owner.



Quote
Anonymous said:
a USCG 6pack doesn't in any way qualify you to operate safely and efficiently out on the water.


Not true at all.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 09:02 PM

I should have been more clear about the USCG 6pack, anyone can take and pass a test. Experience counts for a lot.
Posted By: casailor53

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 09:38 PM

Quote
Anonymous said:
I should have been more clear about the USCG 6pack, anyone can take and pass a test. Experience counts for a lot.


And if you own a boat, you can lie all you want about your sea-time. And if you have a friend who owns a boat, you can ask him to lie for you.

There is no practical exam, whatever.
Posted By: sail2wind

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 10:10 PM

Quote
Anonymous said:
I should have been more clear about the USCG 6pack, anyone can take and pass a test. Experience counts for a lot.


seriously, obviously you have not taken the 6 hour exam, yes experience does mean a lot, but you can take an ASA course and even come close to passing the exam
Posted By: sail2wind

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 10:15 PM

Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
Anonymous said:
I should have been more clear about the USCG 6pack, anyone can take and pass a test. Experience counts for a lot.


And if you own a boat, you can lie all you want about your sea-time. And if you have a friend who owns a boat, you can ask him to lie for you.

There is no practical exam, whatever.



see my last post, no practical exam? sailing is not even a part of the exam, after you take your exam you then need a sailing addendum. Do you expect the Coast Guard to go out with each individual applicant? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: casailor53

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 10:32 PM

Quote
sail2wind said:
Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
Anonymous said:
I should have been more clear about the USCG 6pack, anyone can take and pass a test. Experience counts for a lot.


And if you own a boat, you can lie all you want about your sea-time. And if you have a friend who owns a boat, you can ask him to lie for you.

There is no practical exam, whatever.



see my last post, no practical exam? sailing is not even a part of the exam, after you take your exam you then need a sailing addendum. Do you expect the Coast Guard to go out with each individual applicant? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />


And that is part of the problem. I believe that in the UK, with the RYA Yachtmaster license, there is a practical. All you gotta do is charge for it.
Posted By: 706jim

Re: USVI grounding - 08/23/2013 11:10 PM

I wrote up a resume for my boating esperience and sent it off to Moorings before our charter. While listening to our boat orientation at Moorings, I asked the girl doing it if she had read my resume.

"No!" was all she said.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 12:04 AM

Im not about to disclose what my profession is but, I work closely with the USCG and many other international governing maritime agencys. My whole point is that a small test with limited experience will not make everyone fit on the water in all capacities. Time and experience with different situations is invauluable. In no way do I want to undermine the hard work people do to obtain licensing and certifications they are a great and can only encourage and make our waters safer with more knowlegable sailors/boater. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: sail2wind

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 12:07 AM

The STCW is a practical application and necessary for crossing international waters. Any U.S. Capt. who takes guests to BVI is required to have their STCW.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 12:18 AM

The STCW will not show you how to moor, anchor, reef your main. It is basic water survival, fire fighting, CPR/First aid. In what way is that practical in regards to what this original thread started off as someone colliding with a marked reef? The more stamps and certs you obtain won't make you a better sailor. This is the biggest misconception out there. I see it all the time people want a boat they go take a couple week classroom, or even a weekend safety boaters class then they believe they know what they are doing, next thing you know they are the ones taking out reefs or damaging boats. Take actual lessons, put the time in to sail/boat with your buddys that are more experienced.
Posted By: sail2wind

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 12:41 AM

True, however it is a practical, on the water class. The USCG Captain's test also does not include moor, anchor, or anything to do with a sail boat. Johnson Reef is huge, well marked, well colored, and sometimes breaking water. If you don't see it, you are either not paying attention, or not at the helm.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 02:04 AM

Quote
sail2wind said:
True, however it is a practical, on the water class. The USCG Captain's test also does not include moor, anchor, or anything to do with a sail boat. Johnson Reef is huge, well marked, well colored, and sometimes breaking water. If you don't see it, you are either not paying attention, or not at the helm.


Not alway true in poor light later in the day headed away from the beach when the swell is down. If you do not know the reef is there and you think very wrongly that you are headed "out" into deeper water.

There is also a shallow spot just to the south of the reef that motivates some to turn away from shore into the reef.
Posted By: maytrix

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 04:11 AM

Quote
706jim said:
I wrote up a resume for my boating esperience and sent it off to Moorings before our charter. While listening to our boat orientation at Moorings, I asked the girl doing it if she had read my resume.

"No!" was all she said.


what did you expect? The local base probably doesn't ever see any resume.
Posted By: casailor53

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 01:21 PM

Quote
sail2wind said:
Quote
Anonymous said:
I should have been more clear about the USCG 6pack, anyone can take and pass a test. Experience counts for a lot.


seriously, obviously you have not taken the 6 hour exam, yes experience does mean a lot, but you can take an ASA course and even come close to passing the exam


ASA course teaches COLREGs? I've done lots of first day check-outs (mostly asked for by the client), and I don't think I ever met anyone who knew what NUC, RAM, CBD, etc, meant.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 01:36 PM

Quote
maytrix said:
Quote
706jim said:
I wrote up a resume for my boating esperience and sent it off to Moorings before our charter. While listening to our boat orientation at Moorings, I asked the girl doing it if she had read my resume.

"No!" was all she said.


what did you expect? The local base probably doesn't ever see any resume.


My experience is the managers know who is coming. One or two go over the paperwork and everyone else is just going through the motions. The more reliable the resume the less chance you will find anyone observing your skills. The truly weak(or B.S.) captain and crew will struggle getting away from the dock and out of the harbor. For many charters the most difficult set of tasks is getting the boat loaded and away from the dock.
Posted By: camelot

Re: USVI grounding - 08/24/2013 04:22 PM

Maytrix - I agree.
We have bareboated 11 trips with 4 different companies in 3 different oceans and have never been asked to see our resume once on-site -- Our resume is, however, reviewed before our deposit is accepted and the boat confirmed to ensure we are experienced enough to take that boat in those waters. This is done by the main office not always where we take the boat, and by someone other than the briefer.
I think it is obvious to most experienced chart briefers/boat briefers very quickly whether the skipper (technically not a captain) and mate (usually a second person with some on-water experience required to rent the boat)know anything about boats in general and sailboats in particular (which way do you wrap a winch, what questions do you ask during the chart briefing, can you start the engines when asked, etc)so that, in my experience, I have always felt they do all they can to ensure the safety of their boat, my crew and others on the waters.
We have only been asked to go out, raise the sails, tack, jibe, return to dock once as part of the checkout -- this was with TMM (2 weeks ago) and they asked would we like to or not -- Was time well spent -- I learned a lot about the rigging and some of the quirks of that particular boat, made sure no problems existed before we took out the boat ourselves, had a guided tour out/into the marina (Quite tight and a reef at the entrance not marked) so that while it took a little over an hour it was time well spent. This combined with my experience on many occasions seeing chartered boats with "local" captains do things like anchor at Monkey point, spend all day on one of the NPT balls at "the chimney", outrace "CCC's" to the last mooring obviously being approached by other boat shows me it is more than # years of experience or "credentials" that deserves respect on the water -- Experience, respect, common sense in equal doses seem to me to be the best combination. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/dine.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jorgen

Re: USVI grounding - 08/25/2013 08:28 PM

Quote
camelot said:
which way do you wrap a winch, what questions do you ask during the chart briefing, can you start the engines when asked

After 40 years of sailing, I still have problems in remembering which way to wrap the winch. I think it is clockwise on the starboard side and anticlockwise on the port, but I have to check it every time. As how to start the engine, I know my boat, but every new boat has a special system, with or without the key. I need instructions in how to start and stop. Never be afraid to ask.
Posted By: NotquiteCapnRon

Re: USVI grounding - 08/25/2013 09:37 PM

Oh come on Jorgen, everyone knows they go clockwise unless you are in the southern hemisphere. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Jorgen

Re: USVI grounding - 08/25/2013 09:53 PM

Like I said: I have to check them each year.
Posted By: sail445

Re: USVI grounding - 08/25/2013 10:16 PM

Clockwise all the time unless you're on Bizzaro world. :-))
It's very tuff to fool a wEnch <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Capnmike

Re: USVI grounding - 08/25/2013 10:25 PM

That's why I never let my crew wear digital watches.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 12:40 AM

Quote
sail445 said:
Clockwise all the time unless you're on Bizzaro world. :-))
It's very tuff to fool a wEnch <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


When you are motor sailing on a bareboat it is easier to just luff up and take up some sheet... That can work in both directions.
Posted By: hallucination

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 01:43 AM

Funny to think that the whole...

Clockwise/Anti/Counter-Clockwise will soon go the way of the DO-DO.

What does it mean to "keep your watch winded or is that wound"

The toilets on my boat must have been made down-below, since when I hit the electric button, the water goes the other way.

I suspect that my birthday present will be the last mechanical device that I will wear. UN-Marine....

and all this 6-PAX/ASA/USCG/NUC/RAM shi...uff would be MUCH more fun to watch on "sail-anarchy" or "sail net"
Posted By: rhans

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 01:52 AM

Quote
hallucination said:
Funny to think that the whole...

Clockwise/Anti/Counter-Clockwise will soon go the way of the DO-DO.

What does it mean to "keep your watch winded or is that wound"

The toilets on my boat must have been made down-below, since when I hit the electric button, the water goes the other way.

I suspect that my birthday present will be the last mechanical device that I will wear. UN-Marine....

and all this 6-PAX/ASA/USCG/NUC/RAM shi...uff would be MUCH more fun to watch on "sail-anarchy" or "sail net"


Ditto - Where's Glen when you need him.
Posted By: Benny_Toe

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 05:44 AM

All this dialogue and no one ever asked if the offender? had an explanation or even a story.

This is pretty one sided without their input.

I'm assuming all here have extensive sailing experience and if that is so you all know that a mistake only takes an instant to happen, sometimes with disastrous results.
Posted By: Twanger

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 02:02 PM

Now Benny, we just love to engage in rash speculation!

It's for the same reason that the press stays up half the night trying to call the Presidential Election, when they could all just hit the hay and get the results the next morning. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: capttom

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 03:07 PM

...I was wondering when this would get interesting...back in the day...1986...it was a part of every conversation at the Bridge bar in ramada yacht haven.. As in Been sailing around here long? Yep ...hit Johnson reef yet? Nope. Well, not very long then...
Posted By: stevemac

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 08:53 PM

Quote
capttom said:
...I was wondering when this would get interesting...back in the day...1986...it was a part of every conversation at the Bridge bar in ramada yacht haven.. As in Been sailing around here long? Yep ...hit Johnson reef yet? Nope. Well, not very long then...


My mind automatically went into a Maine accent!
Posted By: Nutmeg

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 09:36 PM

"If you haven't been aground, you haven't been around" was the saying I've heard. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Twanger

Re: USVI grounding - 08/26/2013 09:41 PM

We would just about always run aground sailing in the Potomac River.

Sail until the centerboard hits and then tack. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> If we got stuck, we'd crank it up!

In the Caribbean, not once in 30 years.

I'm knocking on wood at this very moment. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Blush.gif" alt="" />

Not for one minute do I think I am immune... but maybe that's why I've had such a long streak of not grounding out.

I'm a big chicken with somebody else's very expensive boat.
Posted By: TomC

Re: USVI grounding - 08/27/2013 12:31 PM

I recall being told in a briefing at VIP years ago that departing Compass Point marina with a deep draft Hylas we should expect to "touch the sand" on the way out. We did; but, fortunately, there was no further "touching" for the remainder of the charter. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: woodycooper

Re: USVI grounding - 08/27/2013 02:17 PM

Quote
Nutmeg said:
"If you haven't been aground, you haven't been around" was the saying I've heard. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Recently we ran aground briefly with my wife at the helm, going where I told her to go. She kept apologizing, and finally I told her "I'm proud of you, now you are a real boater..."
Posted By: Pvgreg

Re: USVI grounding - 08/27/2013 03:01 PM

I recall one of the ASA books stating that there are two types of sailors; one type has run aground and other type just hasn't yet.
Posted By: Kimber

Re: USVI grounding - 08/27/2013 05:14 PM

I've seen their Hylas get drug in and out a few times with dinghy towboats and VIP employees at the helm. It's nice of them to dredge for the rest of us. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: capttom

Re: USVI grounding - 08/28/2013 07:55 PM

Back in 93 I had just bought an old wooden boat and took pay dad for a sail to white bay from red hook. My dad was an old salt, two circumnavigation s, a lot of water under his feet,
And he was enjoying a boat ride with his thirty something kid. I sailed into Ivan's cut in white bay and headed west and dad was like "you sure this boat can do this?" and I'm like "oh yeah, I know white bay like the back
Of my hand " just before we bounce along the bottom for about twenty yards, and then sail out down by the Soggy Dollar.
That is when I finally learned that the 'back of hand' isn't the palm with all those neat lines, but the other side, with the hair on it. And that 3 inches of draft over the last boat really does make a difference in white bay.
The old man was really quite diplomatic about the whole thing, never told a soul.
Posted By: agrimsrud

Re: USVI grounding - 08/28/2013 08:13 PM

Quote
Pvgreg said:
I recall one of the ASA books stating that there are two types of sailors; one type has run aground and other type just hasn't yet.


My ASA instructor said it a little bit differently - "there are those that have run aground and then there are those that lie"
Posted By: BostonDavid

Re: USVI grounding - 09/23/2013 06:02 AM

Since we're doing true confessions: During my 1st BVI bareboat charter many years ago, I forgot to shorten the dinghy painter going into Cam Bay, wrapped the prop, stalled the engine, and drifted sideways to the sandy beach. I'm not sure if this really constituted a grounding, since the keel was just resting against the sloping sand in still water, but I suppose it technically was a grounding. I had to dive and cut the painter in the middle to free it from the prop, then we pulled ourselves off using the dink to set two anchors. I tied the painter back together and simply told Sunsail, when we returned the boat, "The painter is shorter than it was." They looked at it, said "Yeah, we'll replace it," and asked no further questions! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

What were they thinking?
Posted By: saildoggie

Re: USVI grounding - 09/23/2013 01:44 PM

Quote
agrimsrud said:
Quote
Pvgreg said:
I recall one of the ASA books stating that there are two types of sailors; one type has run aground and other type just hasn't yet.


My ASA instructor said it a little bit differently - "there are those that have run aground and then there are those that lie"


Roger that! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: casailor53

Re: USVI grounding - 09/24/2013 10:12 PM

Quote
BostonDavid said:
Since we're doing true confessions: During my 1st BVI bareboat charter many years ago, I forgot to shorten the dinghy painter going into Cam Bay, wrapped the prop, stalled the engine, and drifted sideways to the sandy beach. I'm not sure if this really constituted a grounding, since the keel was just resting against the sloping sand in still water, but I suppose it technically was a grounding. I had to dive and cut the painter in the middle to free it from the prop, then we pulled ourselves off using the dink to set two anchors. I tied the painter back together and simply told Sunsail, when we returned the boat, "The painter is shorter than it was." They looked at it, said "Yeah, we'll replace it," and asked no further questions! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

What were they thinking?


What were you thinking? Wrapping the dinghy painter on the prop sometimes will break a motor mount and even bend the shaft. Always be straight with the charter company when you return your boat. If nothing else, you're not being fair to the next charterer, who inherits your problem, and may lose a day of their vacation. How would you feel if that was you?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 09/25/2013 12:09 AM

If this particular coral is so important, endangered and rare that criminal charges need to be filed against someone who accidentally damages it, they might want to use more than a few yellow markers to protect it! I can see the day coming when a person goes to prison in the USA for " environmental terrorism ". Dam coral murderers!!!!
Posted By: NCSailor

Re: USVI grounding - 09/25/2013 11:43 AM

Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
BostonDavid said:
Since we're doing true confessions: During my 1st BVI bareboat charter many years ago, I forgot to shorten the dinghy painter going into Cam Bay, wrapped the prop, stalled the engine, and drifted sideways to the sandy beach. I'm not sure if this really constituted a grounding, since the keel was just resting against the sloping sand in still water, but I suppose it technically was a grounding. I had to dive and cut the painter in the middle to free it from the prop, then we pulled ourselves off using the dink to set two anchors. I tied the painter back together and simply told Sunsail, when we returned the boat, "The painter is shorter than it was." They looked at it, said "Yeah, we'll replace it," and asked no further questions! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

What were they thinking?


What were you thinking? Wrapping the dinghy painter on the prop sometimes will break a motor mount and even bend the shaft. Always be straight with the charter company when you return your boat. If nothing else, you're not being fair to the next charterer, who inherits your problem, and may lose a day of their vacation. How would you feel if that was you?


Get off your high horse. If I wrap the painter on the prop, cut it off and there is no vibration under way with engine on then why would I report the so called problem? This is boating, things happen. If I damage the boat I will tell the owner. If I screw up a bit with no damage I don't need to spill my guts.
Posted By: Zanshin

Re: USVI grounding - 09/25/2013 12:50 PM

The dangers of dinghy painter prop-wraps aren't to be underestimated, this past season a charter Beneteau came very close to sinking due to what at first seemed a minor prop-wrap.

[Linked Image]
Grand Case Prop-Wap
Posted By: casailor53

Re: USVI grounding - 09/25/2013 02:14 PM

Quote
NCSailor said:
Get off your high horse. If I wrap the painter on the prop, cut it off and there is no vibration under way with engine on then why would I report the so called problem? This is boating, things happen. If I damage the boat I will tell the owner. If I screw up a bit with no damage I don't need to spill my guts.

Sorry to be on my high horse. I guess my concern is how many people are unaware of the damage they have done.
Posted By: woodycooper

Re: USVI grounding - 09/25/2013 06:25 PM

Quote
Zanshin said:
The dangers of dinghy painter prop-wraps aren't to be underestimated, this past season a charter Beneteau came very close to sinking due to what at first seemed a minor prop-wrap.

[Linked Image]
Grand Case Prop-Wap


That epoxy putty is good sh*t! Always keep it aboard our boat.

I must admit I wrapped a dink painter, as did my father before me. It is one of those lessons you never forget. Someone suggested putting the painter through a fun noodle, although I bring the dink fully abeam before I anchor, dock, or moor.
Posted By: BostonDavid

Re: USVI grounding - 09/29/2013 06:41 AM

It's okay, all. My adventure happened at about idle speed, early in our charter. No leaks, no vibration in the aftermath. I do try to be thoughtful.
Posted By: loony

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 01:06 PM

Sorry to disagree with many here but I do NOT think that this reef is well marked at all! They can and should do better so as to protect the reef. No one wants to run into a reef and I've always been surprised that at how it is marked. It should be marked so that in inclement weather and in calm weather (I have often seen it without any breaking water) the markers are well visible. By the way we live in the USVI on our sailboat so we are not casual or inexperienced boaters.
Posted By: woodycooper

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 04:37 PM

My chart shows an orange/white buoy, 4 yellow buoys, a lit green buoy, and a lit yellow buoy to the north. If you see a buoy through your binoculars (you do have them, right?) and you don't reference them on your chart (you do carry a chart, right?) then you deserve to run aground. This is well marked in my experience.
Posted By: maytrix

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 05:25 PM

I agree, I think its adequately marked and since you should be looking at a chart, shouldn't be difficult to avoid.

It's not foolproof, but unlike in the rest of society (where we have to have labels for a bus exhaust stating its hot!) the only way to fool proof boating is to keep the fools off the water!
Posted By: sailbynight

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 07:53 PM

Hello?

People make mistakes. Qualified or not, things happen. How and why do people here love to overstate their own qualifications, while belittling anyone that has a mishap?

Sailing a few weeks in the summer, and a week or two, each or every other winter, in the world's mellowest waters don't make any of us qualified to judge how someone ended up on the reef.

Look at the incident and learn from it. Anything else is worthless chatter.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 08:03 PM

Quote
loony said:
Sorry to disagree with many here but I do NOT think that this reef is well marked at all! They can and should do better so as to protect the reef. No one wants to run into a reef and I've always been surprised that at how it is marked. It should be marked so that in inclement weather and in calm weather (I have often seen it without any breaking water) the markers are well visible. By the way we live in the USVI on our sailboat so we are not casual or inexperienced boaters.


That is why you are supposed to have a paper chart, know how to use it and actually use it. If you do not, it is only a matter of time before you slam the boat aground. The GPS toys, that so many play like a video game are a major factor here.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 08:05 PM

Quote
sailbynight said:
Hello?

People make mistakes. Qualified or not, things happen. How and why do people here love to overstate their own qualifications, while belittling anyone that has a mishap?

Sailing a few weeks in the summer, and a week or two, each or every other winter, in the world's mellowest waters don't make any of us qualified to judge how someone ended up on the reef.

Look at the incident and learn from it. Anything else is worthless chatter.


Not paying attention and loss of situational awareness are major issues on the water and more so in the air.
Posted By: LocalSailor

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 09:49 PM

Quote
loony said:
Sorry to disagree with many here but I do NOT think that this reef is well marked at all! They can and should do better so as to protect the reef. No one wants to run into a reef and I've always been surprised that at how it is marked. It should be marked so that in inclement weather and in calm weather (I have often seen it without any breaking water) the markers are well visible. By the way we live in the USVI on our sailboat so we are not casual or inexperienced boaters.


I started this thread over a month ago with the article from the STJ paper and a small diagram so " casual or inexperienced boaters" might get a heads up awareness before sailing this side of STJ and also because of the many posts from sailors of all levels who are familiar with the BVI that ask about clearing in to Cruz Bay from the BVI - anytime some one is sailing in waters that are new to them all information - from forums like this, paper charts, cruising guides,radar, GPS, depthsounders,vigilant visual observation and local lore can only help them enjoy a safe trip and visiting new cruising areas.
Posted By: sailbynight

Re: USVI grounding - 09/30/2013 10:01 PM

Thanks Local!
Posted By: oldCGQM

Re: USVI grounding - 11/18/2016 08:58 AM

In the summer of 1980 I was a QM2 aboard the USCGC Sagebrush (WLB-399) out of San Juan, PR. The USVI was part of our OP-AREA and both Johnson Reef '1JR' and Johnson Reef 'JC' were maintained by the Sagebrush. During our ATON run I was detailed to do position checks on both of these buoys. Prior to departure I provided a navigation brief to the coxswain and the boat crew; after the brief I gave the coxswain, a BM3, a corrected 25641 chart sealed in a clear plastic bag for reference. Shortly there-after the Sagebrush launched our motor cargo boat 'SAG 1' in the Windward Passage and we were en route to Johnson Reef. Upon arrival at the north side of '1JR' the boat crewman tied the boat off to the buoy and I climbed up to the top of it with a boxed USN Mark II sextant in my backpack and strapped myself to the buoy and unloaded the sextant. I took four rounds of angles repacked the sextant and returned to the boat. I wedged myself onto the deck in the bow and transcribed the angles I recorded onto the positioning record form. Within a minute, the boat crew man took in the mooring line and we were drifting with the engine at idle, waves lapping at the hull, suddenly the coxswain gunned the engine and I yelled up to him 'hey this is a big reef, which way are you going?' Within seconds, the banging and scrapping noise was deafening - we were hard aground on Johnson Reef. The coxswain shutdown the engine, the boat crew man and boat engineer checked for any breech on the hull. I secured my gear and asked the coxswain for the chart - said he left it on the Sagebrush. I knew we needed an inspection of the exterior of the hull and an assessment of how we could get free; I put on my mask and snorkel and went over the side in my blues and low cuts. We were aground in a field of elk horn coral - the hull was deeply scored from the reef and coral, but the rudder and prop were not damaged so we waited for about 90 minutes for high tide (all of about a foot) and I was able to guide the boat out to deeper water. The coxswain tried to explain the grounding away by saying he was making a 'beeline' for 'JC' - and that he did not have chart to guide him...

The coxswains carelessness, lack of preparation and mindset that he didn't need any charts and markers to show him the way to the objective had very high costs.

(My) Moral - just because you're USCG certified coxswain doesn't mean you're qualified to handle the boat, until proven otherwise I view everyone as a "CCC" because they are everywhere.

REF: U.S. Coast Pilot 5, Chapter 14: Johnson Reef, a coral formation 0.4 mile NE of Perkins Cay, is 500 yards long and over 0.2 mile wide; it breaks except in very smooth weather. A ledge, over which is a 20-foot passage, connects this reef with the mainland to the SE. The reef is marked by a lighted buoy at its N end and by an unlighted buoy at its S end.

REF: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/25641.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Sagebrush_(WLB-399)
https://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/sagebrush1944.asp
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ...h_(WLB-399).jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjI2WDcyMA==/z/OUgAAOSwWTRWzxAu/$_57.jpg
Posted By: RickG

Re: USVI grounding - 11/18/2016 02:54 PM

Thanks for the story oldCGQM and welcome to TTOL! The reef is very clearly marked, but we still cats and power boats inside the Johnson Reef markers pretty routinely. In early November we saw a small private power boat crossing the reef at speed in calm conditions. We stay outside and avoide the inside passage unless we are going to (rarely) Trunk Bay.

Cheers, RickG
Posted By: YachtReprise

Re: USVI grounding - 11/19/2016 03:51 AM

Quote
capttom said:
...I was wondering when this would get interesting...back in the day...1986...it was a part of every conversation at the Bridge bar in ramada yacht haven.. As in Been sailing around here long? Yep ...hit Johnson reef yet? Nope. Well, not very long then...


HaHa! Now there's a blast from the past! The Bridge Bar was the absolute best...all sailors and lots of shaggy dog stories and sailor lies. Gosh, I miss that place.

But no. We all knew about Johnson's Reef, even before it was marked. And if one were to hit it...one would be an idiot. We all had charts and local knowledge.
Posted By: StormJib

Re: USVI grounding - 11/19/2016 02:12 PM

Here is the reality of Johnson's Reef and the heavily traveled waters around Johnson's Reef. When the sea is calm, the light conditions poor(or just right) it can be hard to notice for some helmsmen. Johnson's Reef is one situation where using a real chart and dead reckoning will keep you safe. Without a proper chart the sailor new to area can easily get confused along the shore of St. John with the thinking safe deep water is to the north away from the sand and beach. In the some light or weather conditions Johnson's Reef can be deceiving from any direction to the skipper without a chart and and poor situational awareness. Sure a chart plotter may help, a chart plotter that is zoomed in to the incorrect level can lead to disaster. My point in the right conditions you cannot miss Johnson's Reef and only an "idiot" would end up on it. In the wrong conditions a boat not using a proper chart can end up in disaster on Johnson's Reef. Here is a picture that shows dangerous Johnson's Reef and the deep water all around it. Someone in each crew should be always be tasked to maintain situational awareness with an actual chart. That person should not be the person with his or her hands driving and maintaining the lookout.

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000CusTgpWOWbg/s/860/860/Aerial-IMG-5475.jpg

What that does translate to. In many cases on the charter boats. The skipper should be delegating the steering to others while the most senior person on the boat provides greater focus on the navigation and safe passage. The moment there is any doubt where you are? Or "what is that mark for"? The vessel should stop until the situation is determined.
Posted By: Deepcut

Re: USVI grounding - 11/19/2016 08:13 PM

Nice photo StormJib...

I am glad to report that passing through the area several times I did NOT hit Johnson's Reef!
Posted By: NCSailor

Re: USVI grounding - 11/19/2016 09:02 PM

Quote
Deepcut said:
Nice photo StormJib...

I am glad to report that passing through the area several times I did NOT hit Johnson's Reef!


Ok, but isn't this true of almost all reefs? Use a chart, know where you are, etc? I sailed from the BVI to St John in 1990 using a wrinkled old chart that came with the boat. It showed Johnson's reef. We sailed around it. end of story.
Posted By: StormJib

Re: USVI grounding - 11/19/2016 09:48 PM

Quote
NCSailor said:
Quote
Deepcut said:
Nice photo StormJib...

I am glad to report that passing through the area several times I did NOT hit Johnson's Reef!


Ok, but isn't this true of almost all reefs? Use a chart, know where you are, etc? I sailed from the BVI to St John in 1990 using a wrinkled old chart that came with the boat. It showed Johnson's reef. We sailed around it. end of story.


So very true. Unless you are accustomed to navigating on waters without reefs and obstructions. There are many lakes and coastal communities where if you are just careful adjacent to the shore you are fine. In fact in most cases in the BVI you will be fine once you maneuver away from shore. One place even large crewed yachts have found themselves in trouble would be the area north of Beef Island. There are several spots where the marks are of little value without a proper chart and situational awareness. A wrinkled chart is great. A chart in a tube somewhere on the boat not so much.
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