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Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: sail445] #53369
05/07/2015 05:27 PM
05/07/2015 05:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 120
Tortola, BVI
mess Offline
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mess  Offline
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Posts: 120
Tortola, BVI
Quote
sail445 said:
I'm not being stereotypical, most Europeans won't leave a 20% tip with excellent service, it goes against their grain.


Different from saying most don't do their homework.

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Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: sail445] #53370
05/07/2015 06:34 PM
05/07/2015 06:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 189
Eastern MA
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tothedogs Offline
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Posts: 189
Eastern MA
I think that as a whole, the average European or other foreigner does infinitely more homework before visiting a foreign country than the average American. Having traveled extensively I have seen this time and time again.

My guess is that the typical European coming to the BVI has likely been to the UK numerous times for business or pleasure. In that context, would one not think that when they are coming to the British Virgin Islands, that they should have similar expectations?

Restaurants in the BVI do themselves a disservice as there is no uniformity. Some do not charge for service and get stiffed, some add a line to the bill for service, and some add a line for a nonexistent tax and get tipped on top of that.

Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: maytrix] #53371
05/07/2015 06:42 PM
05/07/2015 06:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,530
Ya never know...
HillsideView Offline OP
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HillsideView  Offline OP
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Ya never know...
I think a line printed on the menu and the bill saying "service NOT included" should be enough to address all potential customers.


My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...
Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: HillsideView] #53372
05/07/2015 07:01 PM
05/07/2015 07:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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They could always do the reverse and simply charge more and pay more so tipping wasn't an issue - any tips are a bonus.

But I think we all know what this means for service.


Matt
Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: maytrix] #53373
05/07/2015 07:18 PM
05/07/2015 07:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 237
Amityville, NY
RonP Offline
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RonP  Offline
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Posts: 237
Amityville, NY
I agree that the lack of consistency is a problem.

It's hard enough to read a check in dim light with 50+ year old eyeballs. Discerning what charges are there or not, when everyone does something different can be a problem. So they can do whatever they think is best, but need to spell it out, and give us the large type edition please.

Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: RonP] #53374
05/07/2015 07:51 PM
05/07/2015 07:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,470
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Well, I certainly agree with you there, especially when you often add in alcohol in the mix! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Crazy.gif" alt="" /> My feeling is that many people on vacation from the US and elsewhere, if there is a tip already included on the bill, they still tip an additional 15% or whatever, on top, because they simply don't pay attention. Restaurant owners know that, so to ME, adding an auto tip, they HOPE to deceive the customer into tipping twice, or at least, they know it's a real good possibility and they're perfectly fine with that. Just sayin'..


Carol Hill
Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: Carol_Hill] #53375
05/08/2015 05:26 PM
05/08/2015 05:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,421
New Jersey, USA
DanS Offline
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DanS  Offline
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Posts: 1,421
New Jersey, USA
Quote
It is not that they are stingy tippers, it is because in their native countries service is included in the price. To them, tipping as we know it is the US is a foreign concept. A normal "tip" in most European countries would be to round up a $97 check to $100 for example.

Quote
Agreed. But servers in Europe also make a much higher wage, so that basically they get paid by their employer a working wage to begin with. I find it a much more rational way to do business than the way we Americans do it, but whatever.


Which points out a way to test the concept that the only way to get good service is to incentivize the servers with tips. Over the last couple of years I have been to Germany, Italy, and France (for business, business, and pleasure, respectively). I was in tourist-oriented restaurants, and off-the-beaten-path restaurants that were mainly frequented by locals. I found the waiters and waitresses to be uniformly attentive, friendly, and competent.

So maybe there's more than one way to skin a cat, or run a business.

Dan <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: DanS] #53376
05/08/2015 07:17 PM
05/08/2015 07:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,901
Maine
Breeze Offline
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Breeze  Offline
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Maine
Put 1000 restaurant owners in one convention hall and they'll all say the same thing-- the easy part is creating an attractive and functional physical space where people can find food, drink and companionship. All that takes is money.

The difficult-to-impossible part is convincing the employees that THEIR attitude and competence WITHIN THAT SPACE is what makes the food drink and companionship dream possible and profitable.

A space is a space. An empty table is a space. 4 empty chairs around an empty table is space. A silent kitchen is a space. PEOPLE doing the right things with committment and drive and attentiveness and humor and skill and frequent sprints of < omg I can't believe I'm doing this but I gotta make it happen> are really what make it happen.

GOOD service staff can make even a sub-prime restaurant space rock. BAD service staff will cause the best of planned and decorated venues to roll over in their grave.

Getting it right is a highwire act, and like any highwire act, it can slip off the wire with disastrous consequences.

IMHO, Auto Grat only belongs in private establishments where money does not change hands at the Point of Service. Membership only, private clubs where members are billed monthly and a Grat % is added for service staff based on a member approved and membership ratified expectation. Only in a very well defined and " closed" system of expectations and well defined and managed employee job standards can it work as intended, and when a member of such an establishment is badly treated, the consequences are swift and unequivocal. Employee gets blackballed by the House Committee and see-ya-bubbye.

If one is going to work as a server, or manage or employ servers, in a public venue--- it is all out there in the public view. There will be winners and there will be losers.

Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: Breeze] #53377
05/08/2015 07:31 PM
05/08/2015 07:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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sail2wind  Offline
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Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
Well said, as one of those 1000 owners I completely agree. Every staff meeting we praise the staff for their great and attentive service. As breeze says you can have terrific food, but lousy service will kill you. We always say our job is to bring people in, your job (servers) is to get them to return. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: sail2wind] #53378
05/08/2015 09:11 PM
05/08/2015 09:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,450
Napa, California
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Teammac Offline
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Posts: 1,450
Napa, California
What many service businesses in the BVI are missing is the skills of how to treat their employees. I have seen how some of the management speaks to workers, especially in the food industry, and it does not surprise me that the workers have a poor attitude at many places. They have not learned that every worker is important and must be treated with respect and appreciation. Pay rate has much less to do with the equation than most think. If they feel appreciated and have a sense of ownership and accomplishment, they will show up to work with a great attitude. The money then will take care of itself.


It's not what you've got, it's what you give, it's not the life you choose, it's the life you live.
Re: Pussers makes a good move [Re: Teammac] #53379
05/08/2015 11:32 PM
05/08/2015 11:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 50
Austin
Jaustex Offline
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Jaustex  Offline
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Posts: 50
Austin
Very well said, Breeze, I also am one of those 1000 owners. Service is as big a part of the dining experience as the food and atmosphere and can make or break a restaurant.

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