Willy T...denied

Not sure if anyone has seen this

http://www.virginislandsnewsonline....ly-t-govt-denies-anchorage-norman-island

Is this for legit reasons or just trying to get rid of riff raff / reasonably priced drinks?

oh yeah just saw this now on FB holy wow!!!... "He further explained that the seabed does not belong to anybody, while pointing out that the Willy T has a seabed lease at its usual location...." really, how can they stop them???

Also, if the seabed doesn't belong to anyone, who do you lease it from?

Also, if the seabed doesn't belong to anyone, who do you lease it from?

The seabed is owned by The Crown and is leased from the Crown

Dr. J has wanted to get rid of the Willy T sence he bought Norman Island. It is a major drawback to his plans for turning Norman Island into a 5 star eco resort. Irma gave him his chance and the Jereckis have lots lof clout with the NDP.

Unfortunately coming on top of the loss of the Bomba Shack, loosing the Willy T will end any reputation the BVI ever had for "debauchery".

A government statement I saw on FB says that the Willy T's seabed lease expired in February, 2018 and that they've been talking to the Willy T owners since early 2017 about their needing to relocate because of the Norman Is. development plans. If the lease did in fact expire and was not renewed, I think they'll be looking for a new home. Seems very odd, though, that the two parties wouldn't have gotten ahead of this and dealt with it before the new boat was about to be placed.

Shame on you Orlando and the NDP Government for bowing to the mighty $$ of Dr J..how many more attractions are you going to take away from the bread and butter visitors. Nor everyone is Oprah ar Branson..we survive on the folks who come back every year for that dream vacation.I am very sad to see this happen and surprised that Orlando and his boys are behind it and backing the big bucks ( quick profit) again. SHAME ON YOU.

Remember this a boat not a land based restaurant/bar therefore easy to relocate. Does it really matter where they end up. We will all certainty cruise there assuming still in BVI. Question is where? I can imagine it in a more remote harbor/cove as to not tread on other existing businesses.

Seems like the best place to relocate to would be North Sound near BEYC. But seriously, when will any large development on Norman be up and running - 4-5 years if they start immediately?

Dr. J does not want the Willy T in the Bight, period. Money talks.

North sound is to murky for diving into the waters at night.

The corrupt part of this is the sale of a BVI National Park to Dr J... The government sold the peoples National Park Norman island for personal gain.

Norman Island was never a National Park and was not owned by the Government. It was privately owned by the USVI branch of the Creque family and was up for sale for ages before being sold to Jarecki 20 years ago or so. At the time there was a lot of talk that the government should have blocked the sale because Jarecki already owned Guana Island, which he has always kept off-limits to the public. There were fears at the time that Norman would go the same way...

I was told otherwise.
If that’s the case then I retract what I said.

You need a large number of Moorings and easy safe transit to and from the WillyT to make the concept work. I don’t believe there are any other locations that are viable.
G

How about Robins Bay - North Sound?

Close proximity to loads of moorings, space for all the go-fast boats to raft out. Far enough away from other businesses / people to not be a nuisance. Sheltered and flat in most weather. Shallow enough to be nice for swimming. Deep enough to be good for people hurling themselves off the top deck.

I was thinking Soper’s Hole would work and people could nurse their hangovers at Omar’s the next morning

I say run it up the beach in Apple Bay where Bomba's used to be!

As Ewan and Heather already own the ( remains) of Fish N Lime they could anchor it right there...fix the Fish N Lime kitchen up for cooking and folks could party on the boat..

Is it realistic to think it could maybe move around? i.e. start in Soper’s for now, which is in definite need of some attraction for boater and then move elsewhere?

Shame on them is right, Malcolm.....SO many charterers were excited to see this return.....But they just don’t seem to care about their bread and butter.....meanwhile....it is the CHARTER folks who are posting all the positive reviews and the “come on back” encouragement......while many “luxury resorts” still sit in ruins.....gee.....is Disney involved in this somehow?

As has been the case for this season and even last season, before the hurricane damage - the BVI government has not been friendly to sailors, whatsoever. High C/I fees, mooring fields everywhere that limit anchoring as well as unfriendliness of the government toward tourism in general, including yachting, paints a dismal picture for any quick recovery of the BVI 100% based tourist economy. Why deny one of the most popular attractions in the BVI's, the Willy T, a place to anchor at Norman Island where it brings in sailors and significant island revenue?

The BVI government continues to shoot themselves in their feet, so to speak.

Well I think location does matter for the financial benefit of the owners of Willy T. 1) Being close to West End is handy to get the USVI crowd that can check in there and return to the USVI in a short haul not burning much fuel. 2) Has to be a well protected Anchorage with a lot of moorings. Could not have anything like the north shore Tortola to be feasible.
3) Has to be acceptable to “new neighbors” who have any political clout. They are as welcome to businesses catering to tourists as the Clampetts were in Beverly Hills.

That really limits selection.

Sopers when back to normal would not likely welcome the Willy T ..busy harbor with already a full complement of moorings. Ferry traffic..lots of business and restaurants. Would be perfect for distance and ease of checking in for us I traffic. Doubt government would allow.

North Sound I think is never going to be okayed. Too many land based venues that would not welcome the competition.

Diamond Cay or Little Harbor Jost would be suitable. Again local business and if I owned property at Sandy Ground Estates I would not be happy.

Little Harbor Peter would likely be able to add balls and be suitable, but I don’t know what the resort or the local who runs the Ocean Sevens place in Great Harbor, has a huge grip on cruise ship day trips and is well connected, would say about that.

So the Willy T is likely pleading their case to have their mooring spot reconsidered. When is the next election?

I am in agreement with Will that the Bight is about the only place that can accomodate the Willy T without severly effecting existing establishments. It has to be in a reasonably isolated area to avoid noise complaints and traffic problems and in an anchorage protected from all but the worst weather and have sufficient moorings to serve the patrons.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I think the bight is the only viable option also. Let’s hope they get the government to reconsider. They are certainly sending a message that tourists and sailors are not wanted in the BVI. I am thinking my fall sailing trip will be in the Bahamas.

North Sound would eliminate the day trippers from the USVI which is big part of the Willy T business. West End was already at capacity before Irma. The North Shore anchorages don't work because of the swells. Little Harbor on JVD would work in Abe agreed to the noise.


The Willy T was successful in the Bight because of the location. Great first and last night anchorage. Close to the USVI. Location will be the key to success if they are forced to move.

Tortolian check this site. Norman was a National Park

https://bestmapsever.com/pages/british-virgin-islands-national-parks-list

https://stthomassource.com/content/1999/05/10/creques-sell-norman-island/

One more nail.... Are in the process of replacing yacht lost in Irma and considering her 'home'. Hate to see this sort of thing and will look more towards other islands as home port.. Willy T was one of the reasons we spent a couple of nights per trip in the Bight. We might or might not have gone to WT's ' - all depended on our mood but loved to just watch the activity. We would usually split between WT and Pirates but without the draw will just likely avoid the bay. I think where ever they end up the added charter yacht traffic will boost local bar/restaurant traffic. Like it or not, Willy T's was famous ( or infamous !) and someone will want the draw.

Creque is an old prominent name in the VI and BVI but part of the island was designated as a national park.
A couple of years after Mr J purchased the island he hired a hunter to shoot all the wild goats and leave their carcasses where they fell so as to add nutrients to the soil.
This caused a bit of an uproar because some of the Belongers said that they should have trapped them and sold or gave them to the island goat herders

Probably not feasible for a number of reasons and maybe not the best business decision - but i think it would be a great compliment to Pizza Pi in Christmas Cove. It would certainly make for easy access for the St. John and St. Thomas crowds and maybe drum up a bit more charter business for the USVI.

Dig a canal from Smuggler's and put her right smack in the middle of Belmont Pond! lol

Christmas Cove would be out of the question because of the red tape,they’d have to be US Coast Guard inspected for the boat along with safety equipment.

In the VINO article, Ewan said "The businessman mentioned that he has had calls from 'the United States Virgin Islands (USVI) to come there and operate as it could be for me an easy move, as my new vessel meets all US standards, including the US Coast Guard'."

Forget Soper's Hole. All the reasons already mentioned. It has none of the attraction that Norman has. It would be like partying in a marina, just not the same vibe. It would be at the end of the "counter clockwise circuit" most charters take. I for one am ready to tone it down on the last night or two! No way I'm able to hit the Willy T at the end of charter and make it back for check in the next morning! This is so much more than just the loss of an icon. This is the nail in the coffin. We ALL know the government has been picking away at the average tourist for at least the past two years at an accelerated pace. Everything from fees, to fishing license, to rude customs. I work so hard and save every penny to make this trip every year. It's never become more obvious to me, the BVI government just doesn't want my kind. They want an island nation of exclusive resorts and private homes for the rich to hide their taxes. It's sad. The BVI were my favorite and I've made many great friends. After the storms I donated money and without hesitation, made plans to make it back this year no matter the conditions to do my part to help the tourist industry. I already have flights booked and deposits on a charter otherwise I'd cancel. This will be my 7th and last trip. I'm done. My BVI VIP card, the joke that it is, will just be a souvenir on my wall.

If they did move it to the USVI the atmosphere woul probably be mostly local instead of partying charter boaters.
It would probably get as crowded as the Bight during off season.

Looks like there is a movement to boycott Pirates. Have not had time to look at who owns what but hearing they are behind trying to run off the WillyT. I know the closing of Billy Bones had some political intrigue behind it also.
G

I believe Pirates and the "Club" next door are both owned by Dr J. I got "conned" into buying a $20 glass of red wine that retails for $6 a bottle there after I asked for a glass of their "house red". Easy to see why they want the Willy T out of there with their reasonable prices and great staff. I would definitely join that boycott club. Think about this..the "T" was tucked away in the corner of The Bight and not annoying anyone. Now imagine if some of those who like to party decide to raft up in front of " Pirates" , crank up music and party " Willy T " style..now that would be interesting..

How did Dr J make all his money?

Nix that post,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jarecki

Benures Bay? Garner Bay?

You need a anchorage with lots of Moorings. Benures bay would be destroyed if they put the WillyT there.

Benures Bay is out. Dr. J doesn't want the Willy T anywhere near Norman Island.

Just spitballing a little. The only place the Willt T could move to with similar protection and maintain the traffic volume would be Christmas Cove. It would also be an additional incentive to charter out of the USVI. That would also make Dr. Smith question his actions even more. Already I suspect he is finding that, from a PR standpoint at lease, the tail he has grabbed has teeth on the other end.

I still think Soper's Hole is an option..just outside the mouth of the harbour. The added bonus would be if Ewan ran a boat shuttle from the old Fish N Lime dock for landlubbers..could get a lot of land business as well as boats that way..and God knows we need something else on the West End of Tortola..

That would be great for West End and would be a short run for USVI folks and from Tortola generally. I wonder, though, if the ferry wakes and wind gusts would make it untenable.

Diamond Cay would be another good option. There’s good holding, it’s close to Tortola and C&I, he could run water taxis from Fish & Lime to there too, and along with B-Line and Foxy’s Taboo would make the E end of JVD quite a hot spot.

I think anywhere the Willy T goes there would be some NIMBY opposition, either from home owners or existing business owners, so this is going to be a tough puzzle to solve.

Just wondering .... Did the owner of the Willy T show poor judgement in leaving the wreckage of the former boat laying on shore and debris on the sea floor. It has been approximately 9 months since the hurricane destroyed the old Willy T, and I haven't read anything regarding the clean-up. If the owner of the Willy T was only interested in replacing his former boat, and perhaps showed little interest in the mess he left on someone else's property .... that property owner might have little sympathy or motivation in the matter. I don't know, perhaps someone could comment.

I did see a video of a barge crane trying to remove the old Willy T a few months back. The crane collapsed backwards on to a cat sitting on the deck of the barge.

My understanding is that they have cleaned up all the minor pieces but the hull is still on the beach awaiting a replacement crane. The Willy T was close to maximum capacity for the crane that attempted the first lift. It had to be brought in very close attempting to improve leverage and keep the barge stable. The boom was only a few degrees off vertical and when a choker broke the rebound flipped the boom over backwards. Unfortunately for the only lightly damaged cat on the barge deck there nothing to hold a boom once it goes over vertical.

That has nothing to do with the current situation however. This is simply that Dr. Jarecki has wanted the Willy T gone for the last 19 years and saw irma as an opportunity to call in some chips.

For us, Pirate's prices after the rebuild already amounted to a de facto boycott. We still visit, but eat and drink aboard.

I'll be boycotting Pirates, but will NOT be avoiding the Bight on my next trip. Nope - I'll be the obnoxious PIRATE blasting inappropriate music and dancing naked in the bay. Take THAT, Dr J.

This thread is hilarious
Y'all realize there is 5 sides to every story... true?

Yeah... plunk the new "ting" (LOL- sorry Mal) in Apple Bay.. in front of Manpot's place.....
His place will be full into perpetuity

and... I'll finally have a way of getting to WillyT's... w/o a seafaring raft

All is not lost yet …. a friend of mine sent me this today:


"Looks like the Willie T will be stationed at Great harbor Peter Island. Permits are being finalized today. So.....looks like you can still "jump naked with a painkiller “!!"

More to come .......

There has to be a great back story here.

Cheers, RickG

I would love to see the Willy T and all it's debauchery anchor in the bay at Peter Island's harbor. :-)

Read today that the Willy-T will be in Great Harbor on Peter Island now. Hopefully they will have their own mooring balls since Peter Island balls are $60.

We just stayed in Great Harbor Peter Island, ball was $30 for the night. Those balls are owned by Oceans 7. Same price as they were everywhere else.

Ok great! We are headed down in July and looking to try there then. Thanks for the info!

So I *say* I will overnight in the Bight next time, but I guess if HE gets what he wants, there soon won't be affordable balls, and anchoring will be banned?

Are we staying abreast of this proposed "arrangement" between Dr J and government that will affect the public's use of the waters and shore up to the vegetation line around Norman?

Am I the only one that's really sick of the Uber rich taking away our rights to use GOD given natural spaces?

Am I afraid my name will be put on some "list" for a cavity search by customs next time I visit?

Would love to see a new "Ting" in Apple Bay...still hoping to have our summer beach party..more to come! Maybe we can get the " T" to anchor in front of CRC for a few hours..Ewan??

I am hoping that, with the government’s involvement, Dr. J’s new development will be every bit as successful as Prospect Reef.

It would be just as successful if the Willy T was in the harbor.
A lot of celebrities and Mega yachts have visited the T.
I even saw Michael Douglas and Zeta there in 2006.
Only a minority of the guests would be too stuffy to complain.

Interesting to think about the status of the various traditional resorts in the BVI right now. Peter Island, Biras Creek, Little Dix, Bitter End... Guana appears to be open on their website and Facebook, but not per BVI Traveller. Sailing has been the core tourist attraction for 50+ years. Biras Creek closes and no one seems to care. If I were running the BVI government, I would put the emphasis on attracting more sailors (but reduce the racing for mooring balls). They have a great competitive advantage against the other Caribbean islands.

Not much remote left in the BVI.

"They paved paradise to put up a parking lot."

I wasn't even a big fan of Willie T, per se. Just not my or my wife's style, really. Our favorites were more along the lines of the peace and serenity of Cow Wreck. But we enjoyed going there, and definitely enjoyed watching the revellers move to and fro and enjoy themselves. They weren't hurting anyone, except for maybe themselves on occasion. The loss of Willie T, in and of itself, isn't really that big of a deal to me, personally. But it means a lot to many, and more particularly, the how and why of the loss (or moving) of the Willie T is a strong statement of the priorities of the BVI Gov't. It's got me feeling very sad.

I'm relatively new here, so please forgive me if I offend anyone...

I've only chartered in the BVI three times, the last one with my kids, both in their twenties. They're joining my wife and me this July when we return for our fourth trip. When I told them that the Willie T would be absent from the Bight, their response was "oh well, we'll still have a great time."

The Willie T was iconic, to be sure. Watching drunken revelers toss themselves naked off the top deck was amusing, if only for a moment. And while its loss is sad and painful to some, I don't think the BVI economy is going to collapse without the Willie T.

On the other hand, two massive hurricanes that obliterate the businesses and infrastructure of the islands would crash the economy.

I love the BVI and return there to spend my money, even while having wonderful sailing options like Nantucket, Block Island, Martha's Vineyard and Narragansett Bay. My history with the BVI is far less extensive than many folks here and my experience with the government is equally less established.

But if I were managing the BVI economy, I'd ask, is the Willie T going to employ all those people whose jobs were lost when the businesses in which they were working were washed away? Is the Willie T going to pay for all of the medical treatment for injuries sustained during the storms? Will it pay to clean up the landscape, pave the roads, rebuild businesses and homes? Will it provide enough tax revenue for the government to pay for adequate law enforcement, emergency services, transportation hubs, or schools for the children of residents? Honestly, the owners of the Willie T were unable to find an effective solution for getting its carcass off the beach (I know they tried, but they failed and it seems like they gave up). Is that attractive to sailors spending tens of thousands of dollars on vacations?

Having small, quaint businesses within an economic eco-system is a necessary and desirable thing. But, despite being distasteful to many, the long-term health and sustainability of the islands will be built on large capital investment, job creation and tax revenues.
That's capitalism. Let's face it, the sailing destinations of New England are doing quite well with a mix of small and large businesses, but without their version of the Willie T. I think the BVI will live without it too. Maybe the thing to do is take a deep breath, relax, remember the Willie T with fondness and move on.

I suppose, those who are truly repulsed by this can exercise their right to avoid the BVI and sail elsewhere. I respect that. I also appreciate the vacant mooring ball that will produce.

The Willy T is one of many businesses in the BVI and yes it pays taxes and produces jobs like many other small businesses it also supports plenty of small satellite businesses that supply them with inventory, maintenance Etc.
To downplay the importance of a small successful business is detrimental to health of the economy

I don't disagree and I'm not downplaying it. As I said, small business are necessary. Combined, they contribute to the overall economy.

But losing one small business has far less of an impact than losing a larger resort, like the BEYC, for example, who employs far more people, supports far more ancillary businesses and pays significantly more taxes. Without these properties and, come to think of it, charter companies, which are larger entities, small businesses could not sustain the economy of the BVI.

If the government is looking to bolster the economy through the development of similar properties, it's hard to question that thinking.

It’s obvious that larger businesses employ and pay more taxes, but to deliberately prevent a previously successful smaller business from operating sets a negative precedent

Possibly. Or it opens the door for large capital investment, which may result in substantially greater sustained overall benefit.

It will be interesting to see how things develop over time.

The first year I visited the BVI's, 2000, there were plans in the works for a big resort at Norman Island, you see where that is today?

Does that mean that nothing will ever happen there?

Probably not in my lifetime, 19 years later, nothing has happened.

Well, my first visit to the Bight was 1992. There was an old restaurant there, pretty run down, I think. The Jarecki's changed it to Pirates's Bight in 1999 after purchasing the island, subsequently sinking over $1.5MM into it.

People may not care for the restaurant or the land lord, I'm not judging, but, something clearly has happened since 1992.

That is a precedent.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see what happens. In the meantime, I'll continue to support the BVI economy by spending my money there.

It will probably happen in the next two or three years because the economy is on its way to booming once again and things will be going full speed ahead and in the next twenty years it will convert the BVI from a tropical paradise to an urban upscale PC jungle

Our first, and last, vist to the Bight was in 1995. There was one boat there - ours - and more goats on the hills than we had ever seen or heard in one place. Roosters have nothing on goats as alarm clocks. We skipped the place on every BVI charter since, as the Willie T was not our cup of tea. We really like Great Harbor, and walking the path to the PIR for painkillers at the Beach Club. Something tells me those days are probably over. Too much non-resort traffic, goodbye path.

The issue is not whether capital investment is good or bad. Rather, its that the politically connected owner of Norman Island exerted pressure to prevent the Willy T from reopening in the Bight because it did not fit with his planned development. There is also the anti competitive aspect. Jarecki used his political influence to eliminate the only competition for his restaurant. The Bight is not owned by Jarecki. This may be the way things work in the real world but that doesn't mean people should just accept it.

There haven’t been any goats on Norman island since the early 2000’s the developers felt the same as you and they hired a hunter to shoot them all and left them where the fell to enriches the soil.
Your dream seems to be comimg true as the resorts move in the “non-resort traffic” will disappear.

I agree completely, they’re turning the the history and lore of the islands into a commercial venture.
Soon you’ll see millennium women trying to walk in the sand with high heels and complaining its to soft

Any entrepreneur knows, competition is actually a good thing, but...

People don't have to accept it. Freedom of choice allows everyone to decide how to comport themselves. If you don't want to support what's going on there, then simply sail somewhere else. That's how consumers exert their pressure. Otherwise, it's the golden rule: he who holds the gold, makes the rules.

Change is inevitable. First, I hope that in twenty years I can still operate a yacht in the BVI. That alone will be noteworthy. Second, I hope those who push for change will read this post and consider those whose passions beckon for a simpler, greener, and more compassionate evolution. Who knows, stranger things have happened.

In the meantime, I'll still sail with unbridled joy and passion, because for me, it's the journey that matters, not the destination.

Cheers.

The old restaurant was called Billy Bones, it closed in April of 2002, we happen to be there on their last night in business.

The WillyT has absolutely nothing to do with land based future development on Norman Island. It was about removing a competitor to Pirates via the government.
G

I remember "swearing" I would never go back to Saba Rock after they tore down old Pirates and built what I proclaimed a monstrosity on the rock. I probably boycotted for a year or so but then checked it out and while I missed the old place, I learned to enjoy the new place and went back every year. I think the same thing about Billy Bones, old Cooper etc. Truth is the BVI is paradise compared to almost most other places I sail and I am on vacation, on a boat generally with my best friends and/or closest loved ones, it is ALL awesome!!! So while we will lament what just happened and I am in agreement with you, I suspect in a few years "most - sailors are a stubborn lot" we will learn to love in all in a new way Cheers!

Not me. I have never cared for the beach in front of Billy Bones/Pirates. Too still and too many flies. We ate and drank there until the price of a Bushwacker went to $15. Painkillers at $12! Come on. I don't mind paying a premium when in paradise but I don't like getting ripped off. We will skip the Bight except as a day trip for snorkeling.