Caravanseri owners win??

Daily Herald story

Interesting....and fantastic if THIS decision holds up

It will be a fiasco (again) though for present renters and TS owners BUT, again, fantastic

...PLUS $27k per owner???? Over $60 million...plus legal fees....plus losing the rentals... Alegria will walk away

I am one of the members of TOCA, and I am very excited about this decision! I do not think, however, that the individual $27000 awards for individual owners applies to the Toca membership. I think that might be for some owners who had units in some of the unfinished buildings. But I could be wrong. I am sure we will hear the details from our attorneys. In any event, I am happy that those of us who chose to fight this matter have seen a victory today. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/circle.gif" alt="" />

The way I read it it, the case was awarded to the seventeen owners. Nothing is said about the others so not sure where you are getting the 60 mil from.
And if what you said is true and Alegria walks away, that resort will be in worse shape than it was before Alegria bought it.

Would agree with your response.

...and the $60 mill was the number of mentioned timeshare owners (2200) times the awarded amount. Probably incorrect interpretation of the ruling but I thought the math to explain was not needed...sorry

Not questioning your math. It's just that the article didn't state that the court awarded to all 2200 timeshare owners. Just the seventeen that filed.

You know they are not going to give up that easily...they are still going after Marty, it's good though they would be fined for not allowing access though.

I see this as an ongoing problem for many years! I feel very sorry for Marty and all the TS people as this has been an upsetting event in their lives.

Ok...I get your interpretation..but...the article states the court ruled in favor of those 17 owners and the TOCA members. Out of the 2200 TS owners it states that only 62 are members of the organization represented in the suit



Does the ruling only apply to those 62?

Does the ruling only applied to those 62 in the association to get their unit usage back?
Looks like those 62 can have there units back if they pay the FM for their week. No big pay out for them. The 27,000 only was for the 17 individual owners as I read it.

Still not over till the "Fat Lady Sings".

This was just an injunction hearing! The injunction was to prevent them from denying us access to our units. The great thing is that even if he appeals this, he has to allow access while the appeal is pending. And there are members who will either be allowed to use their units or will be given money for each day he denies access. There is still an underlying case that is due to be heard in 2016. This will address a lot of other issues including damages. At least we are not rolling over. At least he has to answer for what he did to people. It's not over yet, but at least now we have a victory that shows we were not foolish in pursuing this. I really just want to get back to drinking pina coladas and buying jewelry and having fun on my favorite island. Hopefully this ruling is an indication that I will either have a place to stay, or get my money back so that I can pay to stay elsewhere.

The other nice thing is that he has to pay the court costs/legal fees incurred for obtaining this injunction..

Mecs, do you know if the ruling applies to all timeshare owners, or just to those who joined TOCA?

Good luck Mecs and all the others that are part of this, we all wish you the best. Well, almost all of us are rooting for you. But I certainly am.

Cheers,
Todd

We have not been specifically informed of all the ramifications by our lawyers, but when we originally took this on we were told that decisions would apply only to those who joined the litigation because we put up the legal fees to fight this. But I really don't know. A lot of people never got notice of their timeshares being nullified. And notice that was given was through emails that looked like spam. The way this article and its headline is worded looks like all owners get their units back, but people may assume that and then find out it is only TOCA members. I would personally be thrilled on one level if it applies to everyone even though we put up legal fees because i did not fight the battle just for me I fought it to right an injustice. And Alegria would have to start dealing with owners right away instead of dealing only with the next TOCA member to show up. The damage to timeshare owners was hurting my friends on the island year round and if I could be part of restoring some faith in the island I was happy to do it. This decision at a minimum shows that we were heard and up to now many people had not felt that way and it was affecting their view of the whole island. But I also can see that some people might be upset if it applies to everyone when only a few of us were willing to foot the bill. We need to think about the costs and legal fees moving forward, and I think there would be a concern by Toca members that why should they foot the legal bill if they could sit back and reap the benefits while somebody else paid the lawyers.So it's a double edge sword here for the people who are brave enough to take on this risky challenge and willing to put their hard-earned money into the litigation.

When I find out the ramifications of this decision and who it applies to I will post. I wish the decision had come down a month ago! We were on the island during our timeshare weeks at caravanserai, but we were staying at Simpson bay beach resort due to not being allowed in Algeria. You can bet we would have been over at Algeria everyday asking to get into our unit of this decision had been in place. If they turned us down every day it would have paid for our vacation...or some really nice jewelry! Haha! But the decision was pending while we were there so we have a year to wait until we personally can see how this plays out and there may be appeals and the underlying merits case between now and then. So a lot can happen.

Alegria doesn't have to pay the legal fees?

Carol, for this victory Alegria has to pay our legal fees and costs. But there were a lot of setbacks along the way, including an earlier loss where we had to pay Alegrias fees. So I am talking about the overall cost of taking the risk moving forward. We have had to contribute to a legal fund a couple of times to have money to pay the lawyers in place. Those who did not contribute to the fund were then removed from the TOCA litigation. We have all been giving retainer money which is fine if we win but expensive if we lose. I was just expressing a concern that if this victory applies to all timeshare owners that some TOCA members might decide to stop contributing to the retainer fund because they figure they will still benefit even if they drop out of TOCA. And without the retainer money we can't continue to litigate, so the smaller the group the more advance funds each member has to put up. And we may have a long way to go before this is over.

OK, I understand.

How many are still active in the TOCA group and if you don't mind saying how much every individual has put into the legal funds so far?

Personally, I wouldn't answer the question about how much money was put in by each person, as I don't really think that's your business..

Wasn't asking you and not yours to decide whether to answer the question. I asked if they didn't mind saying so it's up to them to.

I have owned since 2005 pre construction. I never received any notice or email that I no longer owed my Unit which was a 2bedroom 3rd floor end unit ocean front.When I was reading that we lost our unit on this board I called and was given a run around.I would be happy to get some money back as I have lost all feeling for this resort. I paid 16,500. Good luck to all of those who lost on this deal DJ <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif" alt="" />

As far as I know there are 62 active members of TOCA. As for legal fees I don't feel comfortable discussing that just because it involves so many people. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for the feed back. I understand your reluctance about the legal fees and respect that.

According to a story in today's Daily Herald, it appears that the lawyer for TOCA believes that the current ruling applies only to the members taking part in the lawsuit. "Could set a precedent" is a whole different thing than "is legally binding upon"..

Wow! It doesn't make sense to me that the law would apply differently to one group of timeshare owners than to another. Timeshare ownership is timeshare ownership, you would think.

The issue with this lawsuit is that only the people who were part of the group who sued Alegria and the owner would benefit if they won. Their laws are quite different than North American. You have to hope there is no time limit on filing a lawsuit. I am part of the group but some of us individuals did not have complete contract documentation therefore only 17 people were originally listed in this suit.

So, only 10 out of the 17 are getting a settlement?

That makes sense to me Georgia. Why should those who were not part of the lawsuit be rewarded for their lack of interest and unwilling attitude to put up the funds to fight Alegria?This was not a class action lawsuit.

Not sure why we are discussing who will get paid yet or who will regain ownership, still a long ways to go. I choose to root for those that are part of the suit against Alegria and leave it at that.

As for "unwilling attitude" I am not sure how I feel about the way that is stated. I decided that I no longer wanted to work to keep my ownership there, I had a solution that fit what we wanted and moved on. I am not concerned if the ruling will apply to me, or any of the future rulings. But I again state that I am very much rooting for the others that have skin in the game regardless of if they were part of the suit or not.

To those that took part and paid into the legal fee's, best of luck and I am hoping for the best, for you.

Cheers,

The suit is not a class action so only the plaintiffs are affected by the outcome. No different than in the States. However, it seems like those owners not involved would get the same outcome if they initiated their own lawsuit using the same pleadings and arguments.

I feel it is important to share with you that there were some Caravanserai timeshare owners who were not welcomed into the TOCA group due to the owner signing 'the agreeement" which was emailed by Alegria. Undoubtedly, there were some who had little choice as their friends and relatives had already purchased air fare and made family travel arrangements and those Caravanserai timeshare owners just did not feel it appropriate to cancel those travel plans/vacations. TOCA was not interested in having anyone in their group who felt compelled to sign the agreement. So, your statement that those Caravanersai owners did not "care" is not a fair statement. We would have joined if we could. What a mess.

Editing this because the president of TOCA has cleared the matter up below.

Hello there everyone,
As president of TOCA, I have been viewing the open conversations on both this social media site and the Facebook page set up by Jeff Berger (Timeshare Owners Association of SXM) and would like to clarify some information. TOCA was formed last October, after some of us received Alegria's letter, and on the advise of two legal firms (both Bermon Law & Lexwell) we advised any enquiries regarding joining our group NOT to sign Alegria's letter. Many folks followed this legal advice and made alternate accommodation arrangements which are now being claimed as damages in our legal battle. On the advice of our attorneys, inclusion of timeshare owners into our association, that had signed Alegria's letter could have potentially complicated our legal strategy and we are fully sympathetic to the duress under which they had to make difficult decisions at the time. It has been clear all along that only TOCA members (and those who are suing privately under their own individual circumstances) will be covered by the latest injunction verdict. It is unclear how this will impact the other ~2000 timeshare owners at the resort unless they band together on their own privately, form their own association and/or hope that the SXM government steps up and enforces the laws & regulations that are already on the books. We are currently asking our attorney if it is possible to accept new members to our group (those who have not signed Alegria's letter) and he will consult with his colleagues. For those of you who would like to contact me with more questions, please email us at tocagroup@gmail.com

Best regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

Hello there everyone,
As president of TOCA, I have been viewing the open conversations on both this social media site and the Facebook page set up by Jeff Berger (Timeshare Owners Association of SXM) and would like to clarify some information. TOCA was formed last October, after some of us received Alegria's letter, and on the advice of two legal firms (both Bermon Law & Lexwell) we advised any enquiries regarding joining our group NOT to sign Alegria's letter. Many folks followed this legal advice and made alternate accommodation arrangements which are now being claimed as damages in our legal battle. Those members who later advised us that they had indeed signed Alegria's letter were then categorized as "non active" members and paid no further installments towards legal fees. Our ongoing list of damages does include reimbursement of legal fees and if indeed the court continues to uphold this win (waiting to hear if Alegria will appeal) then ALL legal fees of both active and nonactive TOCA members may be reimbursed. On the advice of our attorneys, inclusion of timeshare owners into our association, that had signed Alegria's letter could have potentially complicated our legal case and we are fully sympathetic to the duress under which they had to make difficult decisions at the time. There is no problem with members who feel that they were forced to sign Alegria's letter under duress to retain legal counsel. It has been clear all along that only TOCA members (and those who are suing privately under their own individual circumstances) will be covered by the latest injunction verdict. It is unclear how this will impact the other ~2000 timeshare owners at the resort unless they band together on their own privately, form their own association and/or hope that the SXM government steps up and enforces the laws & regulations that are already on the books. We are currently asking our attorney if it is possible to accept new members to our group (those who have not signed Alegria's letter) and he will consult with his colleagues. For those of you who would like to contact me with more questions, please email us at tocagroup@gmail.com

Best regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

Thank you for clearing that up. I have received alot of mixed communication from different people about this matter and I am just a sympathetic to those who signed the letter so I did not want anyone to think that we were deliberately excluding peoplefor no reason. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

i want to confirm what January said, meaning Dutch law is not USA law, and class action suits are not recognized on the island. I also remember getting that incoherent email last October and wondering what in the world was going on. I am truly sorry for any timeshare owner who signed and returned the letter because once that took place, the right of use of your unit was forfeited according to the court of law. There are numerous owners who neither returned a signed letter nor joined TOCA but just walked away in total disgust, vowing never to return to St.Maarten again.

Sandy

Hi there Sandy,

I am wondering if the folks who signed Alegria's letter could argue, before the court, that they did so under duress & could now argue that the whole mess initiated by Alegria was illegal in the first place. Would be another interesting court case huh? Lexwell would know the answer to that one.

Carol Anne

We finally got a bullet point summary of the decision and it looks like Alegria has to pay court costs (filing and service) for us because they lost. But it does not say they pay our legal fees.

Sure is. This will be a big deal if it holds up on appeal!

As a member of TOCA, these people are the only individuals who will receive the benefit of their condo usage and any monetary penalties given to the group. Too bad but it was broadcast to every person to join the group but most indicated that it was a lost cause.

BUT ... If the verdict holds up on appeal -- others can get counsel and go to court since a precedent will have been set! Highly likely they (new litigants) will succeed, at lower cost...

I am just curious when all the court litigation is finished and the court rules for the Caravanseri owners. What is the expectation of service the owners will receive? The Alegria owner has been sued ( and probably ain't happy)and now has let Caravanseri owners stay in the now hotel. I am guessing the Caravanseri owners will now have to start paying MF'S. So will the Caravanseri owners get top notch service? Will the MF's stay the same? Will there be no special assessment fee's? I am just finding it hard to see any pluses for the Caravanseri owners winning. The only thing I see would be a plus would be Algeria returning the purchase price that the Caravanseri owners paid. And Algeria loosing this round would set a president to keep them in litigation for years.

Just my $.02

SXM??? Wendell

"Service" or lack thereof is a good question, but you raise an even more interesting question to me----what's to keep Alegria from tripling the AMF???

I was thinking the same thing. Increased MF's and a special assessment for all the improvements they have done sounds like something that will probably happen. Not a great situation to look forward to. Winning this might not be a winning thing.

Wendell, the same thing went through my mind when I first read the verdict.
Who's to say they will keep the rooms up? Towels, paint, kitchens, appliances, mattresses? Service(s) to them vs the hotel guests? I can see them wanting to make your life miserable.

Sort of like "be very careful what you wish for" All good points Wendell and highly likely IMHO. Just sayin

Will be visiting SXM and Alegria at end of the month.

I will let you all know....

Hello again all,

Just a few points for further clarification. TOCA has 2 petitions percolating before the SXM court system. The injunction petition, heard and "won" by TOCA last week addresses the issues of the ongoing denial of access to our units & requests damages caused by this continuing denial (alternate accommodation/lodging costs, legal fees, etc.). Last weeks "win", if not appealed by Alegria, must grant us immediate access to our units UNTIL our merits petition (the main case) is heard before the court in early 2016. The TOCA membership fully understands the consequences/ramifications of returning to a resort where we are not welcome and social media sites have already informed audiences that current "winners" (Marty & the Dream Bar) continue to be harassed. As well, it is reported that owners in the A building (not timeshare owners) have received notice by Alegria that their fees will be substantially increased. All of these serious concerns have been expressed by our membership as we move towards the main case procedure & are clearly addressed/dealt with in the upcoming main case. In the meantime, we wait to hear if Alegria will appeal the decision and the Board will formulate a plan of action, in collaboration with our attorneys, to grant our owners access to their units as per the injunction ruling. Even in the event of an appeal by Alegria, the injunction ruling must stand (or Alegria faces hefty fines for its violation) until their appeal is heard before the court.

Regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

So, now it's low season and how many that are affected by this will show up before 2016. 2016 MF's will be due before then along with back MF's up to that point to keep current as in the contracts. All I see is more bad money and emotions going towards a bad end result. I have no dog in this fight but looking in I see nothing good for the owners in the end.

However, that's making the assumption that Alegria accepts the fact that they are servicing timeshares, and are ready and able to handle the accounting, billing, etc.
Did they bill for 2015, or keep track of who paid or didn't? Would they have records that you were in arrears, if their position is that they aren't timeshares any longer?

I would assume that the people that signed the letter sent money in and they kept track of it. I would also assume that since this has been in the courts they also kept up on these timeshare owners records in case a decision went against them. If I was Alegria I would have all records at my disposal and up to date until everything is settled and put to bed. Just make sense for a business in this situation to do.

One of the things I learned a long time ago is never, ever assume anything. The facts speak for themselves.

If Alegria had good business sense, it would have settled with the TOCA members outside of court before it got to this point. And, newspapers, not only on the island but in the States, and social media throughout the world would not be reporting negatively against Alegria. Unfortunately, Alegria is now faced with the probability that, if TOCA wins the final case, they will be in court for many, many years to come.

It takes two opposing parties to negotiate, and it's not too late to do that. But, it takes both sides willing to talk ... if settled out of court, no precedent has been set.

Sandy

Good evening,

For those enquiring as to whether or not they can now join the TOCA association, the advice of our lawyer is NOT to accept new members. For those who wish to retain legal counsel, either privately or forming an association of their own, we highly recommend Lexwell legal firm. We have been extremely satisfied with the level of professional legal service that we have received.

We wish you all the best of luck in whatever you choose to do!

Warmest regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

Of course he would want that. Starting over with a new case, more dollars. But then again new members might muddy the field.

I am going to make a wag and say that Aleriga is not happy and will make life miserable for the people who won the suit. It might be in their best interest to propose to Alerigia that they will accept a return of the money that they paid for their condo perhaps with interest, and they will walk away. Both sides are at each others' throats and I can never see them kissing and making-up. This way the owners can go elsewhere or no place at all and not have to fear reprisals by Alegria and Alegria will be rid of this monkey on their back and treat the property as they see fit.
I'd be interested to see what the owners think about this proposal.

January - I like the idea. All I have ever wanted since this rediculious saga began was the money back that I paid for the unit so I can go elsewhere. It is unjust to have had so many people who bought into a promise (many of us pre-construction) just have to walk away with nothing. Had they done this from the beginning I probably would have even considered buying again somewhere else on the island....now, not so much......

Good afternoon,

The members of the Board for TOCA will host a conference call over the weekend and will make a final decision as to whether or not to accept new members at that time. If YOU HAVE NOT SIGNED ALEGRIA'S LETTER and wish to join our association please contact me as soon as possible at our email address: [email]tocagroup@gmail.[/email] com

Best regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

Good evening everyone,

It is with pleasure that the members of the Board for TOCA (Timeshare Owners at Caravanserai Resort) will be accepting new members. If you have NOT signed Alegria's letter, you may contact me at tocagroup@gmail.com and I will provide you with the necessary information.

Best regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

Good afternoon,

TOCA (Timeshare Owners at Caravanserai Association) is continuing to accept new members (those who have NOT signed Alegria's letter) until October 15th at the latest. If you are interested in joining our group who are fighting this travesty before the SXM court, please do not hesitate to contact me at: tocagroup@gmail.com and I will respond to your enquiry within 24 hours.

Best regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA)

Does this mean no fines for Alegria (for now anyway)?

Alegria fines suspended

Good afternoon,

TOCA is the association that was formed one year ago by owners at the Caravanserai resort who have had their long lease agreements illegally nullified by the new owner Alegria.

We have been advised that we may continue to accept new members who have NOT signed Alegria's letter. For those who have signed the letter, we are referring you to our legal firm (Lexwell in SXM). Any enquiries to our email address will be responded to within 24 hours and you many contact us at:

tocagroup@gmail.com

We look forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,
Carol Anne Lee-Desmarais
(president of TOCA-Timeshare Owners at Caravanserai Association

The link didn't work for me?

Yup, The Daily Herald did some web changes. Carol's link (1st post) to McD's robbery suffers from the same fate.

Well, crap, any link to a story in the DH no longer works. New domain name as of yesterday, I guess.

Are any of their stories still there? Could we go back and fix and re-link? Oh, I guess not, as our ability to edit our own posts disappears after a while doesn't it......bummer! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" />

Weird..I edited the post to give the new link but the edit vaporized....

Let's try again

Alegria

The old stories are still there, I think, but you have to go in and manually search for them. It would have been a lot more work for the DH to do, but they could have automatically linked it to the new address, I think.