15% Service Charge on French side

I know we go through this all the time but I was surfing and saw this on L'Auberge Gourmande website.

http://www.laubergegourmande.com/menu.html



It's just so aggravating knowing that they all add it in.

Mbrott

Sorry, I think you're reading it wrong. It says that it will NOT be added to your bill. Of course, 15% service charge is NOT traditional in France, which to me means that you can leave a small amount if you wish. But if you quoted it correctly, they do NOT add any service charge.

I think what is being implied by the poster is that in France the menu price is supposed to be including the SC to begin with. It is quite obvious by the wording is that the restaurant is trying to get the patron to add 15% more. In France the SC is supposed to be included in the menu pricing and the place is targeting patrons that don't know that. Shame on them.

It is my understanding that servers in France and in French SXM are adequately compensated in their salaries and therefore should not be dependant on tips as are servers in North America.
This establishment's attempt to straddle the border is bending centuries of French custom......IMHO.
Having said that, I always tip Willie....so yes...my attitude is inconsistent <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

This one has gotten lots of commentary on this board. Personally, I do not agree with the automatic 15% add on and will usually choose a restaurant that does not tack on this charge. It preys on the uninformed patron and I view that as an unethical business practice. If the food and or service was unacceptable, it is unlikely that a dissatisfied customer will get that charge removed. Just my opinion, I doubt we will see anything change.

Doesn't matter what you agree with or not,
in France (and I believe it is French law) the Service Charge is already included in the prices on the menu.

In France, the French do not tip in the american sense of the word. If so inclined they do leave a "pourboire" in cash, but this is never 15% or more. Try maybe a few euros or maybe 5%

So the restaurant mentioning a 15% service charge is being very misleading to Americans, the French would just ignore it.

So if asked if Service Charge or Tip is included they will almost always so no, for in their translation you are asking about the "pourboire" being included, which it never is. There is a big difference ($) between an American tip and a French pourboire.

Correct and I have found it best just not to ask and open the door for more confusion.

I think that the comments on their web site are an insult and of course completely wrong. By law all restaurants on French soil have to include a 15% charge for service that is automatically included in all bills. Of course it's the norm for Americans not to be clued into their culture and laws, and this is simply trying to take unfair advantage of the people who don't know better.

Too bad we can't form a TTOL picket line.

This is a requirement of French law as tips are assessed for taxation. The bill is supposed to have an itemization line called service compris ( tip included ). There is however no requirement that the restaurant distribute the tips to the wait staff.Makes no sense to me but that's how they do it.

Agreed that makes no sense, but I saw that bit of info doing a web search. Also there is nothing wrong (and indeed good) to leave something for the server.

I never heard that there was a set 15% rate to be included. SC is supposed to be included but not as a set rate.

My friends from Paris tell me the rate is 15, regardless of the service charge issue we always tip 20 in cash for good service, 10 on the card for so so service and nothing for poor. The only place on the island we have stiffed the server was at the Flamboyant and that was totally deserved.

The last time we went to L'Auberge Gourmande, we found this printed on their English language menus. In spite of the fact that it was, at the time, our favorite Grand Case restaurant, we never went back. It's the only way we can express our disgust at these deceptive practices.

No one from France would leave a 20% tip, it would be considered outlandish and possibly even obnoxious, something only an American would do.
So many American have been doing it on French St. Martin for so long I guess they have come to expect it from Americans, but such an expectation for a Frenchman to leave such a tip would be absurd and insulting.

This may just be another case of Americans thinking the rest of the world should do things the same way they do. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />

All I can say to that is anytime we have left a tip the staff is always gratefull and on our return we are treated very well.We certainly don't expect to " force " our way of doing things on anyone. FYI we are a Canadian /American couple.

We don't leave a 20% tip on the French side, usually $5 or so for a $100 check. We are also warmly welcomed upon our return. It's not always about money.

This again?

Just the way I was raised. To each their own. The issue here as I understand it is certain establishments deceiving patrons for financial gain.

I hope you didn't mean to direct your comment to me, as I didn't bring it up. I'm simply responding, as others also have, to the original post.

JulieandKarl said: This again?

I for one feel it's necessary to let us know which restaurants are ripping us off thinking we are stupid americans.

Like GaKay, we too loved Auberge but have not returned due to there deceptive practices. There are too many great and honest places to eat in SXM, especially Grand Case.

Once at a restaurant in P'Burg the waitress followed us out to complain we hadn't "tipped' enough, that it didn't even cover the mandatory 15% service charge. We stated that the service given by her didn't warrant much of a tip and if she wanted a bigger tip to act better toward patrons. Besides, we didn't think the Dutch places had a mandatory "service charge" . We never returned to that place either.

I'm not sure I believe that is the "norm." And if it is, it certainly should not be.

It doesn't take that much effort (especially now, in the internet age), to learn a little bit about the culture and laws of anyplace that you might want to visit. As such, I have no tolerance, and very little sympathy, for anyone who is too lazy to make that effort.

This subject has been beat to death, which doesn't take much, since it is really quite simple: In French territories service is included. If the service is average then you pay your bill and go. If it is above average then you "round up" the bill, or add a Euro or two. If it is really exceptional then give a little more if you want, but no one will be insulted if you don't.

Is that really so complicated?

No it is not complicated and people SHOULD educate themselves but a lot of times they go on opinion rather than fact. When unsure they will often ask the server (and are often misled) and that opens another can of worms and the next thing you know confusion and fear of offending take over and more is paid than necessary.

To each their own when it comes to this but it really is not that difficult.

Yes it was directed to you as was yours directed to me and not the original as you claim. The 20 percent was not mentioned by anyone but me. However if you are offended by what I said to you, I do sincerely apologize.

The comment to which I was referring wasn't yours, as I did understand that you directed it to me, and I also understood why. The comment that I referred to was from JulieandKarl. If you look at the [Re:] in the header of each post, it shows who to whom the post is directed. As you can see, my comment was directed to JulieandKarl. I was not at all offended by your comment! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

I know it's been beaten to death it's just aggravating they try to screw the americans by putting vague and confusing wording on the french side.

I completely agree, which is why I don't patronize places that do that.

I feel that same way with some of the Dutch side restaurants that do that along with adding the TOT. If I want to leave a tip it's my choice. Not the restaurants dictating it.

I feel a bit differently about the Dutch side adding a service charge, because it's clearly a separate item on the check, and not a deceptive practice. I've never had service so bad that I wouldn't leave at least 15% on the Dutch side, but I don't add more if they add it on. As far as the TOT is concerned, I've never seen that added to a restaurant check, but it's such a small amount it wouldn't bother me to see it, especially on vacation. Life's too short.....

Here in the US tips are discretionary; in other countries they are not.

Jimbo's adds the 15% along with the 5% TOT. When questioned he just says he does it because he can and refuses to take off the TOT. Pineapple Pete includes the TOT on the 15%. When I asked the server I was told it was 10% SC and 5% TOT.
Because of that I tend to shy away from those two.

I don't bother to ask; it's easy enough to see what's added, and I make my decision of whether or not to return based on what I see. If it's a place I enjoy, I'm certainly not going to let 5% keep me from returning.

And of course the server told you that; he or she wants you to leave an additional 5% in cash!

Not to worry, I was generalizing about North American Canadians along with United States North Americans. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

How is the weather in Russia? You are an elusive one!

To address the service charge issue on the Dutch side. When 15% is added (they can call it what they want) we usually leave another 5% IF service is good, it not we go with what is on the bill.

Regarding having had BAD service when the 15% is added. Several years ago at Taloula Mango, I did ask to have the entire 15% removed due to the total lack of service. It finally was removed and I despise going back to that place.

I stand corrected; we did have horrible service also at Taloula Mango, and have never been back for that very reason. I honestly don't recall if a tip was added or not, but the experience was so terrible that I just wanted to get out of there, and if it was added I wasn't likely to complain. The lousy service was surpassed only by the lousy food.

i do like Julie and karls statement as this comes up all the time but i also like to know who is ripping people off so keep it coming as long as we are all respectful. But carol will shut it down if it comes to that! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

Every web site I found had the same info:
France:
Cafes and restaurants include a 15% service charge in the bill, as required by French law for tax assessment. Service compris indicates that the tip has been added to the bill, but sometimes the wait staff do not receive any of it.[26] Tipping is better received in venues accustomed to tourists, but can be treated with disdain in smaller food establishments and those in more rural areas. The amount of the tip is also critical. A 5% tip will do nicely for good service. For superior service in higher-end eating establishments, a more generous tip would not be out of place.[27] However, the rare waiter/waitress accustomed to more generous foreign customers have no problem receiving a tip of up to 10% or more.

web page

"Service compris indicates that the tip has been added to the bill,"
First time I've ever heard it as referred to as a "tip".

Location and cruise ships has to be the only things that keeps that place in business. I have been there since and the food was mediocre at best but with so many other good places, I prefer to pass. The 15% s/c has been added there for quite a while now.

Hoping to do lunch at Chesterfield's this trip.

What you posted seems to be pretty much in agreement with what I posted earlier.

Yours states "the amount of the tip is also critical. A 5% tip will do nicely for good service."

What many do not understand is the part it of where it says ( a larger "tip") can "be treated with disdain". = "ugly American".

If one is not in North America maybe one should do as the locals do. Not what one is accustomed to at home.

As I said earlier, the French do not tip in the American sense of the word, they leave a "pourpoire" which is a much smaller amount.

That happens all the time. The French do not "tip" in the American sense of the word.

Exactly!

Will you be wearing a Russian Fur hat in SXM?

Only if I am beating a dead horse.

Hmmmm. I gave up a long time ago on the 'tipping - gratuity - service' issue but I'm still laughing at the mosquito comment. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

so what I've seen on some international Sat. TV, it looks like you may be getting a little snow tomorrow?

Will keep the deer ticks away along with the Lyme disease that comes with them. My advice is not to have any sex with deer ticks either! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />



_{Yes, J.D. I've changed my IP address again. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />}

Are you already down there? If so, I'm very jealous!!

And re the deer ticks - that sounds like a good plan to me. You're getting to be quite the source of useless but humorous info these days but I'm lovin' your suggestions. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I'll send you a PM

I shake my head in despair that this even has to be said.

I will add, though, that it is not JUST North Americans. Here in Florida we see tourists from all around the world. I have seen people from every continent demonstrating the very same sort of arrogance; demonstrating annoyance that we don't do everything just the same way they do back home.

It is a real shame that this whole subject can't be simply summarized into a good two paragraphs that could be posted under FAQ's. As this thread attests, most SXM visitors have real lack of understanding on proper tipping practices there.

DandM
But then a lot of people will be spending a lot of time with nothing to do.

Never a good idea to generalize or assume sir. Even Rasputin knows that.Cheers.

What a great idea!!! Don't know if many people would actually visit that forum, but I like this suggestion. Include both sides of the island.

The OP didn't have a problem understanding the concept of service charge being included IN the price of a meal.

The problem was that this specific establishment was trying to scam those are used to leaving a tip by making it seem normal to leave that 15% (or more).

Informed visitors should feel free to leave whatever they want (or nothing) and not be criticized (by Nationality) for either choice...but the key word is "informed" and this does not refer to a menu statement.

So we should keep reporting such establishments but the thread could be shortened by a cut and paste statement saying:

"There is no requirement to add any additional fee, tip, service charge to ANY establishment on the French side. A small addition will be appreciated but is not required."

Great page, but now I'm a bit confused regarding the Dutch side. If you look at The Netherlands section of this same website, it states that tipping isn't customary there; yet many Dutch side establishments are now adding 15% to their checks, and if they don't we always tip in the 20% range. I guess Sint Maarten isn't a part of the Netherlands like St. Martin is a part of France?

Just a question of curiosity; not wanting to stir anything up, although it probably will.

Tipping as we North Americans know and understand it is not a custom on either side of the island or in the Netherlands or France. The fact that some establishments and their employees on both sides try and obfuscate this fact for personal gain should not surprise anyone. It is absurd to allege that those of us who tip according to our own customs and consience are doing so to insult or force our ways on someone else.Let your conscience be your guide.Cheers everyone.

Thanks Boucharda.....I only commented on a specific restaurant! 4 weeks and counting.

Mbrott

Well, in that case, add Sol e Luna to your list. I haven't returned since the time I had a discussion with (can't remember her name ... the owner's daughter). I told one of my companions that evening that a 20% tip was not necessary, since the SC is included. (She knew my friend, from frequent visits in the past, to be a big tipper.) Even the printed check stated "service compris". I pointed this out to her in our (French) conversation and she had the nerve to tell me that it's what the printer automatically puts on their checks, but that it's not true at their restaurant ... she was willing to blatantly lie in order to retain my friend's "tips".
Needless to say, I've never returned.

We asked the owner of Le piment in orient beach Saturday night as we had a wonderful meal. Great spot. She said they need and expect a 10-15% tip. She feels none of her workers would last more than one months with tips rounded up by a few euros.

She could not be nicer and prices with tipping were very reasonable.

We tipped 15 and 10%!on the bottle of wine, even in the USA 10% on the alcohol portion is perfectly fine

'Compris" past participle of "comprendre" which means "to understand" or in this case "to comprise" or "to include" therefore it means that the bill has "service included". Kapish.

"We tipped 15 and 10%!on the bottle of wine, even in the USA 10% on the alcohol portion is perfectly fine"

in my 40 years in the restaurant business, I never heard this one. You actually separate your bill by alcohol and food?

I've never heard that one either, although frankly I do reduce the tip a bit overall when it's a bottle of wine, that all the server does is just put the bottle on the table and then I have to serve the wine myself. Mostly that doesn't happen in SXM though.

Perhaps it is a localized thing. Way back when, I do recall the "suggested" tip for a bartender was 10% and food service 15%. We mostly eat at the bar at most restaurants we go to and just roll the drinks and food together.

I will also say again, in all my trips to St. Maarten/St. Martin, I have ONLY had one restaurant owner or server (when asked) be honest when it came to the service charge on the French side. That was Bruno from La Petite Auberge des Iles.

Based on the comments written previously, I have taken some of these restaurants off our to-go list. I'm one of those stupid Americans who hates being taken advantage of. Thanks for mentioning your experience with Bruno's place. Added to my list!

Sadly, Bruno and his wife/chef no longer own the restaurant. It is still in business from what I understand (Marina Port Royale Marigot) but I have no idea the policy of the current owners. It was one of our favorite places for many years.

You have hit the nail on the head! After 17 years of visiting St Martin all at the same Orient Beach location we have made quite a few friends who are full time residents and severs in many different restaurants. They need the tips that the Americans leave for them. Remember they pay the same for food, drinks, and recreation as we do. The so called living wage that they make may be OK in France but it is not enough to live in a island resort area. Now we can say maybe they should live and work elsewhere if we want to be flippant but if they did St Martin would not have the charm it does now.
Some here called us obnoxious for tipping 15 to 20% but i know that is very much appreciated. So I will continue to tip because the money i save would not change my life in any way and it may help a now or future friend.

I love how the tipping thing comes up every 6 months or so. Have watched this discussion go on and on and on since i joined the old Travel Talk Board