Still confused on tips

I know this subject has been discussed a hundred times, but during our recent visit, while we were eating at Sun Clubber someone asked who I believe was the owner if tips were included and she bluntly said no, then in Grand Case at one the restaurants they wrote in the line above total, tips in dark ink, now looking at the Club O Facebook in there photos of their St Patrick's day and Valentine's Day menu they both say gratuity not included, I don't understand how they can get away with this? Are there some cases that they are not included, such as buffets and beach bars?

"Are there some cases that they are not included, such as buffets and beach bars?"
Nope. Just a way to get unsuspecting tourists to give them more.

We were on the french side from March 11-18th and we basically added 5-6% on the french side. We went back to the same place a few times and always got a very welcoming greeting.

They try to get more and it's dishonest but you just need to go in knowing what you want to do.

There are two different terms in France. Service is included on the French side; tips are not. They are two different things. Service is what we Americans equate to a 15% tip. The tip is anything over 15% that you'd like to give. If you ask if tips are included the answer will always be no, and that's true. Better just to know the custom and not ask <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

101, how wonderful. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Dutch side- No- unless it's stated that service charge is included. Don't ask if tip is included. If you see 15% service charge on the bill then it's been charged and no more money is needed.

French side-- Service charge is always included in the menu price. It may feel weird not leaving 15% or so but as I said service charge is included in the price ALWAYS. You may leave an extra $5 or so if you think the service was outstanding. Don't ask if the tip is included.

TY!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Service charge is one thing, a tip is another. Personally, I find it best to go with what you know to be facts, laws and common and acceptable practices on each side of the island and never ask. Once you ask, you open to door to be misled, lied to and sometimes almost coerced to make a poor decision.

Thanks for clarifying. We eat 90 percent of the time on the French side and learned not to tip, but we do leave a little extra if they were really good. Thanks to TTOL. I just couldn't understand how they could get away with writing it on the menu or saying it's not included, Now I understand better.

Tipping can be a bit tricky to tourists. That's because there is nothing called "tipping" in France. It is called "service". And service is included usually in your hotel rate and in your restaurant prices.

In regards to restaurants, if the service is included the menu will have clearly written on it "Service compris" meaning that service is included and it's usually 15% of the tab. But local custom is that if you are very satisfied with your waiter's service then you may leave a few spare change in addition.

The tricky part is when a patron asks the waiter if the tip is included in the total and the waiter will say "no". That's because it's true, there is no tip so he will say "no". Then upon hearing that the patron will leave a tip of 15%.
Recall that the service of 15% is included already in the total so the service plus additional tip will have come up to 30%!

So don't ask if the "tip" is included-ask instead if "service" is included. If yes, then no need to leave anything unless you are very happy and satisified with your server; in that case leave some loose change or so in addition.
Over on the Dutch side if there is a service charge it is added as a line item to the check . Not all restaurants include a service charge.

Every time you ask "are tips included" you'll get the answer "NO" because in France, a tip is something a little extra like a couple of Euros, not 15 or 20% like USA because France workers get a very good wage unlike USA wait people.

What you should be asking is "Is Service Charge Included?" (not tip).
Actually, you should NOT have to ask this at all because, unless it states on MENU "Service non comprise" it's understood the 15% SERVICE CHARGE (not tip) is already in the price of a plate. example $27 for rack of lamb.

Service charge is divided for ALL help at the establishment. Tip is that little bit extra you give a waiter that was exceptional.

So when I eat that $27 rack of lamb, a $45 bottle of wine that's all I pay. If I really liked the server I'd give in cash a few bucks.

Dutch side usually adds on 15%
If not add a tip.

French side only give a little extra than the total bill
if you feel the service was worth more. 5% to 10%.

I wish I knew this before all the 20% we added to dinners in Grand Case (and Italy). <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Many restaurant menus on the French side do not state "Service compris" even though service is included.




I wouldn't ask if either the tip or service is included. In France, service is included despite what the menu, bill, waiter, or manager say.

Exactly.

I don't understand why this is so hard for so many to understand.

My approach to tipping these days is:

Dutch side - look at the check for an unaccounted 10 to 15% charge and if none, tip as you feel comfortable based on the service given.

French side - don't ask and they won't tell anything that might confuse you. IMHO, this is one time when, based on related French laws and customs, it is okay to ASSUME the bottom line menu price is all inclusive, and if service merits, a pour bois (sp?) is okay, too. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

That's my story.....you know the rest!

Pat - You are right of course - Dutch side is straight forward and out in the open - French side people normally will ask if unsure of the custom and practice, perhaps it is better not to ask but that can also lead to problems.

Restaurants on the French side should follow the law and clearly indicate the service charge is included but they often do not and enforcement is nil.

When on the Dutch side, if they don't have an extra fee added I usually add 20%. If they have a 10-15%, then I just give them that and that's what they get, unless I really liked the service, then I can add more if I want to. If they wouldn't add the charge I am a good tipper, (if I get decent service).
We don't eat a lot on the French side but have decided this time we are going to eat many more meals over there. So, what everyone is saying is that the fee is already added and I don't have to to tip, but if I really like the service I can add some more if I so choose. This sounds fair enough for me.
Really, it sounds like the French and Dutch sides are the same at most places. They just do it a little differently is all.