Sunsail 444

Tried once before, with no response - anybody sail one of these yet? I have one for July, just curious.

I would think someone would have by now - I know we've seen a few our last two trips.

I imagine it will be very similiar to the 46, with some aspects being closer to the 38 since you lose some space due to the forward cockpit. All lines led to the helm though is a nice plus.

We crawled all over it at the Annapolis show when we chartered it, just curious as to how it actually functions in real life.

Anybody actually chartered out the 444 and compared it to the 4600 (which I liked)? The fwd patio seems like a great idea (for chartering in calm coastal waters). Any idea how many 444s are down in Tortola?

I can't speak to it under sail, but we did go on one in annapolis and I like the layout. Having the forward cockpit does reduce the trampoline and stern cockpit, but not so much in a bad way. I don't think I'd choose it over the 46 to live on, but for a week long charter, I'd love to try it.

We have one the first week in July, just trying to get some first impressions?

You actually maybe the first to provide a report . I hear that she has electric winches on the davits so it seems like they really loaded her up with features. Looking forward to your report.

the davits are the same as the sunsail 384, which are electric.

the major new features are all lines led to the helm, electric winches at the helm and the forward cockpit.

7 weeks.............going to have to find some other way to exercise the crew - the electric winches will take that joy away!

I have one for 2 weeks in jan, let me know your thoughts after the July trip. Thx

Skylark is on one right now in BVI's.

I anonymously enjoyed (and shamelessly used the information from) many of the postings in the BVI forum as I prepared for another trip to the BVI, and thought I would “payback” by giving a boat report on the Sunsail 444 in response to some of the inquiries.


We had the boat for a week and thoroughly enjoyed it – overall this is a great boat for a large group – we had 2 families of 4 with the kids in their late teens and early twenties. There was plenty of room to spread out. For background, I have extensive monohull experience but this was my first experience with a sailing catamaran, so some of my comments may seem variously obvious or odd to those more familiar with catamarans. In any case, here are my impressions:

Cabin space: The accommodations were ideal for 8 and the smallish appearing forepeak bunk in the forward cabin was very usable for a “full size” teenager (although you had to crawl over the forward double berth to get to it). The aft cabins were comfortable with plenty of cabinet and storage space (not that one needs much). The cabins all had 110 outlets so everyone could charge electronics overnight as necessary. The only “gripe” here was that the A/C made the forward cabins ice cold leaving the aft cabins relatively warm (though bearable). We went so far as to tape a piece of paper over the vent in the forward cabin (after closing the vent didn’t work) and that made it better but still not perfect. Next time, I would try closing or taping the vents in the saloon.

Living space: Here the boat really shines. You just can’t beat the front cockpit which was a favorite hangout for the crew. The speakers up front provided music and it was a great place to enjoy the sailing while staying in the shade. There is a ledge on each side of the cockpit that turned out to be the perfect place to sit and enjoy the day while sailing or at anchor. The tramp is obviously smaller than many similar cats due to the front cockpit, but still ample for those that want to lounge there. At anchor, opening the door to the front cockpit created a virtual windtunnel providing great breeze and comfort through the saloon – you do have to close the door to do any cooking on the stove. There is plenty of storage space for food and other essentials (drinks) – we didn’t come close to filling up the storage space with the large Riteway order. Our boat came with a coffee maker, blender and toaster – not sure if that is standard (wasn’t on the last monohull we chartered from Sunsail). Note that there is an icebox on the port side (outboard) of the sink under the dish drying rack – we didn’t find it until halfway through the cruise, but it would make a good place to store additional drinks if needed. We used an outdoor cooler for drinks as we have in the past. The fridge is a two drawer model which has plenty of space – the top drawer gets cold enough to be a freezer and the bottom drawer is just cold enough for lunch meats, vegetables etc. Again, we barely put a dent in the available room after stowing our groceries. However, the fridge drawers are a problem and I was surprised to see them rusted pretty extensively already – the boat had been in service about 6-8 months. The bottom drawer repeatedly jammed when trying to close it and about halfway through our cruise the top drawer broke completely. I suspect that they will need to eventually re-spec this hardware.

Another gripe, that I have heard mentioned before, is the sliding door between the saloon and rear cockpit. The door consists of three parts, a fixed panel to port, a semi-fixed center panel, and the sliding door itself. You can lock all the pieces in their open position (this takes some time and effort but it can be done) – but this is not really ideal. You can also lock the door shut (and unlock it everytime you go through – and you must use a key from the outside), which is also not ideal. There is no designed way to hold the sliding door itself open, which is how we at least wanted it during the day while sailing or at anchor without the A/C running (we are here for tropical breezes after all). Any motion of the boat would cause the door to (quite violently) slide back and forth – unnerving at best and a good way to lose a finger at worst. We first tried tying the door open with some paracord, which worked but was not ideal (hard to adjust, not convenient to tie and untie the cord etc.) We ultimately tied a loop of paracord around the counter and then used a large velcro strap around that cord and through the door handle to hold the door open – this worked perfectly (you need a Velcro strap that is at least 16” long or so to make this work well) and was easy to adjust and undo.

Deck / Sailing gear: The electric dinghy davits worked without a hitch and were very convenient – also a great place to hang a hammock. The cockpit was large and perfect for dining with the whole gang. The hardtop has a large hatch that opens and brings a breeze down right on the cockpit table – perfect when needed, which is not often. The helm station had great visibility (not having much to compare it to, but I was expecting far worse) – you could “almost” see all four points of the boat – the only exception (for me at 6’) was the port forward hull, but I could see the rail and seat on the port bow, which is really enough to be able to gauge where you are in relation to other hard things that go bump. All the lines are led to the helm which made sail handling a breeze. The starboard winch that controlled the starboard jib sheet and main halyard was electric, which was very nice to have (as you cat sailors know, the two part main halyards seem to keep going on and on forever) – even more so because the positioning of the starboard winch is not well suited for hand grinding. The handle comes within less than an inch of the hard bimini support stanchion – if you grip the handle through a full turn you WILL smash your fingers. Again, with the electric winch this is really not a problem (I also spoke with a Moorings captain one afternoon and he said that the R/C folks had come out and looked at the problem and were working on a revised layout for later boats.). You do need to be careful to get the main up between the lazy jacks (the battens seemed to be magnetically attracted to the lines), but going slow with the winch was easy. The overall layout of the helmstation seemed to me to be quite ideal and could easily be singlehanded from start to finish.
The only real gripe I had about the sail handling was the main sheet setup, which I can only describe as bizarre. I cannot imagine what the thought process was behind it – maybe it’s a “cat thing”. The main sheet system consists of two main sheets, each independently led from a block on the end of the boom to their respective corners on the aft outboard edges of the hard bimini – from there the two sheets go through jammers and to a single winch – thankfully conveniently located. Tacking, jibing and general sail trim was infinitely more complicated than with a single main and traveler setup. Nothing that can’t be dealt with, but an unnecessary irritation – I assume the layout was cost driven but to me a poor trade. (Again, I heard that R/C was working to correct this.) Seems to me a simple (traditional) traveler and mainsheet would be an easy fix and there is certainly room to mount it on the hardtop.

Engines/handling: The engines and generator performed flawlessly. The generator is on the starboard side forward of the bow cockpit. It was audible in the starboard forward cabin but (I am told) not a bother. In the port aft cabin, you had to focus on it to know it was running. The starboard fuel gauge never moved off its peg and the port barely did (they told us in the boat briefing that the Genset pulled from the starboard tank but I doubt it). I think that the gauges must be “optimistic” because we ran the generator every night, and motored quite a bit (wind often on the nose), so I figure we must have used around 80 gals (forgot to check the hours)(of the 185 available) so they should have registered lower (I assume .5 gph for the genset and 1gph per engine, which I suspect is pessimistic – but I like to assume on the side of caution). At about 2,300 rpm the boat easily made about 6 to 6.5 knots (depending on conditions). Close quarters boat handling was excellent – cats, despite their size, really are nice in this regard with the twin screws set far apart.

The boat also has 1,000 liters of water in three tanks (2x400 and 1x200), each separately valved to the pump, which is nice to track consumption. No gauges, but the tanks are also visible in the forward lockers so you can see the water levels if you look carefully.
Sailing: Here my monohull past haunts me. I simply could not get the boat to point well – but recognize that it was probably my inexperience with cats that contributed to the problem. This was compounded by the fact that we had plenty of wind – 15 to 25 knots and being unfamiliar with cats I reefed early and often (I used the reefing chart provided – better safe than sorry) – it seemed to me that the minute the jib was furled in the least, all hope of pointing was lost. Reefing the main compounded the problem – I could barely get 50 degrees AWA with any boat speed at all. After reaching back and forth making about .3 knots vmg, we told ourselves that sailing a condo was bound to involve compromise and when going to weather simply hoisted the iron mainsail(s) and settled back. Off the wind, of course, was a dream. Easily clicking off 9+ knots reefed or not. I will surely need some practice to get the most out of this boat – as I still feel we should have been able to do better.

Overall: Can’t imagine a better boat for a group of 8 or so unless they are all die hard sailors. (I listed quite a few gripes, but really there were none that were mission critical). For a leisurely cruise with regular folks this boat is great – maybe all cats are this good, but for me the front cockpit and high helm station really made it bearable to make the switch from a monohull (it still took me a couple of days to get used to the fact that from the helm I could not actually SEE everyone on deck).
Would I go back to a monohull? You bet: if I was with a smaller group and they were people that want to sail – but I also wouldn’t hesitate to grab this boat again (and again and again) for larger groups or those for whom sailing is secondary to the overall island hopping experience.

Fair winds and following seas!

Thanks for the nice review.. Few things I can comment one.

1. I'm surprised you had issues with the door. If its like the 38 or 46, you can lock it open or closed and locking it doesn't involve the key. There's a (for lack of a better word) bolt type lock that locks it in the closed or open position at the top of the door. This was for both the main door and the smaller sliding door on the 46.

2. It seems all the Cat's we've been on had 2 main sheets. I'm not exactly sure the reasoning behind it but we simply just used one regardless of what tack we were on.

3. Pointing. Generally speaking from what I've heard (haven't really done enough comparison sailing myself) Cats are faster, Mono's point better. In the end, that might mean two boats going to the same place can get there the same time with the Cat going faster but taking a longer route.

4. We've found the A/C to be imbalanced as well on the 46 - if you leave all the cabin doors open, it helps.

5. I'd guess the fuel gauges may not have been working 100%. Running the generator each night, you should have shown the guage drop. I know on the 46, it pulled from the port tank. If you had a transfer button, which ever tank you could transfer to is clearly where it draws from - might be the reverse on the 44.

We love the dinghy davits too - the electric winch for that makes it a breeze! I'm hoping we'll get to try the 44 out in the future - it sounds perfect for the BVI.

We sailed "Shazam" from Sunsail first week in July, and pretty much agree with all your thoughts. I too was a mono sailor, this was the first time on the dark side - and I loved it, already making plans for next year. The sliding door on our's stayed open, had a latch mechanism, possibly your was not working right? As to the fridge, the upper drawer on our's FELL OUT once - that was loud! It was a lot of fun to cruise around in, the whole crew enjoyed having all the extra room. As to fuel usage, it was not you - we too used very little, even with the genset and AC running every night. Talked to the dock guys, and it really just does not use much. Overall, can't wait to get back on one next summer.

Our boat was Shazam - I guess the freezer drawer was designed for one fall only <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

Odd about the door though - even the boat briefer couldn't find the hole for the latch at the top unless the door was fully open (including the second panel). Would be an easy fix to drill a hole for the latch, but I left the Makita at home. Was there another latch that the we missed?

I've just been looking at the brochure pictures of the 44. Looks nice, but on the 46 you get a better sailing boat with a much bigger cockpit, larger salon and dining table, larger galley, fridge/freezer doors not drawers, wider helm seat for more people, larger trampoline for star gazing, yada, yada. I happen to know of a 46 that will be available starting this November at a charter company with much lower rates than Sunsail's 444!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry - misread your first - we latched it full-open. As to the other post about moving to a 46 - yeah, it has all that, but no "front porch". Adding that area really was a big deal to our crew. And with only 6, the 444 fits just fine. We'll be locking one in at the Annapolis boat show in October. I'd be perfectly fine with ol' Shazam again!

The front porch is a key feature! A great place to hang out, and the forward speakers were great. Even with 8 the boat had plenty of room.

and feedback on this boat would be appreciated... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

crewedcajun

The new moorings 4800 also has the front porch. Entering the fleet in the next few weeks I think.

For those of you who chartered this 444 from Sunsail, what were the names of your boats?

We had Shazam, and have requested her again this year.

How many does Sunsail have in the BVI Fleet now? We leave in three weeks and I can't wait!

Saw this in Annapolis and it is very similar to the 444 (chartered Shazam last summer) - main difference is that the forward berths are accessed from a bow hatch rather than through the forward cabin - still pretty small. Also, the fridge drawers open fore/aft so maybe that will keep them from flying out.
Otherwise, not a whole lot of difference. I am sure that it will be thoroughly enjoyed.

Saw them in the BVI Fleet... that is one BIG boat!

Not nearly as big as the 58 - Now THAT is a big boat!