Help a reluctant charter coordinator!

The largest sailing group I've ever organized was 4 people, it was our first charter. It was a disaster mostly because the guest couple thought they were going on a luxury cruiseliner. Since then, it's been just my wife and me and we have it mostly down to a science. Now my wife has told her nephew and niece if they both graduate we will take them sailing as our graduation gift. Simple enough, but you know it never is...

So the nephew is a US citizen but the niece is Greek. They attend college in England/Wales so will be coming from London. Oh, and now the nephew wants to bring his girlfriend - ok but we aren't paying for that plane ticket! At least the niece and nephew are certified to charter and she has raced small boats competitively since she was around 10.

So we'll be coordinating 5 people and dealing with transportation, provisioning, boat size and cruising ground restrictions due to visa requirements if we take the boat from the BVI to USVI.

So, for those of you who have been in the position of setting things up for a group how do you go about it? To start I'm thinking either a largish (50'+) mono with 4 cabins or a 40'+ cat just for space and privacy and storage space but our budget is not unlimited and I usually find discounted boats. We usually do almost all our provisioning the first day and except for a few things along the way we are fine for two (and we eat on the boat almost exclusively) but I don't think we'll get away with that with 5 of us.

How do you communicate between two parties? Is it helpful to have cell phones? Should we try to meet up in STT or just have everyone meet at the boat?

How do you do provisioning - account for different tastes and such. I think my wife has a good idea about the niece/nephew but we have no idea about the GF.

What about assigning chores and duties. Is it better to ask, take a vote or what? With just the two of us she picks up balls and works the anchor and cooks. I handle the boat and do dishes.

I think she has sort of promised that we will try to take them to Vieques in the SVI to see the bioluminescent bay, we've sailed there before. Would it make sense to just get one of the big monohulls from Island Yachts (the 485's have 3 cabins and we've chartered with them twice before) and skip any immigration issues and the ferry/taxi issues to the BVI's?

Oh, and we just returned from the BVI's on Dec 9 and three days later my sister-in-law and sister got together and decided they wanted to do a charter with us. So, after this one they seem to think I'll be coordinating three couples! I need help...

Well the Greek niece needs to get herself a B1/B2 U.S. visa or you can forget about USVI and SVI. She needs to start now because if she doesn't get one, the plans change massively. If Nephew's girlfriend doesn't hold a US passport then the same applies to her.

Personally, I wouldn't be worrying about any of your other concerns. Yes, it can be difficult dealing with another mature couple and their needs as you've already found out. Organising a good time for 3 late teens, early 20's is really easy... just show them enough sun, sea, sand and alcohol and they'll have a great time.

I too think you are worried too much. If you get a boat in stt, it's easy to await everyone's arrival and it eliminates the ferry issues of going to bvi.

Take everyone to do the provisions.

Maybe someone likes cooking.

Thr boat should hold enough provisions for the week.

If most of the guests are coming from Europe, they are unlikely to come to St Thomas. Most likely will arrive Beef Island via Antigua, although other routes are available.. Flying via the States generally works out a little cheaper but takes considerably longer - unless they are staying with you or other friends/relatives en route. Very, very easy to collect from Trellis Bay.
The most important thing is to talk about it all in advance so everyone knows what to expect : they should be aware of cabin size, number of heads, fact that noise travels easily, maybe you like to make the most of daylight and don't appreciate people lying in til mid day, sharing washing up (no dishwasher) and maybe couples take turns to prepare and cook meals. Stuff like that can make a lot of difference if they aren't sure what to expect.
You will have a great time if everyone is relaxed and easy going.

If your going to the Spanish Virgins, then yes rent on STT. Flights for the Americans will be cheaper and the logistics of getting people together will be easier.

Get the visa for the European passenger. You already know Skip does a good job so if you want the mono that will get the job done. If you want a cat we have a 40 Footer at CYOA with four cabins and four heads as well as generator and air conditioning that's only a year old.

Sail Pending

Jay

The OP says the younger guests are in college in UK and will be flying from London.

Personally, I would fly everyone into Tortola so you don't have to worry about clearing in and out with all those different nationalities. Especially since the niece is Greek and the girlfriend possibly British. My college age kid and cousins far prefer BVI to USVI and SVI.

I also agree you are over thinking things. More often than not, our trips have been large groups. We've had at least 3 trips where we've had between 8 and 9 of us on the boat.

For provisioning, I email the group and ask if there are any requests and let everyone know what we are thinking for meals. We also provision online so I share the order and everyone is free to make requests/suggestions.

As far as helping out on the boat, as captain I let everyone know when help is needed and direct them. We've fortunately never had an issue with everyone pitching in for some task. That may be cooking, cleaning the dishes...etc. Everyone is usually very good at helping out.

Probably the biggest challenge is getting everyone there, but I always leave that up to everyone to do themselves and just give them guidelines on options of when and where they arrive.

And finally, I usually send out a rough itinerary so if there's any requests there they can get some input as well.

In over a dozen trips, this had worked very well for us.

And try not to sweat the little stuff...

Last trip there were 8 of us. I emailed people about any provisioning needs letting them know I get the big stuff ahead of time. I asked about soda as I know more than a couple of them drink diet soda and also use it as a mixer. So the question was diet coke or diet pepsi. Nobody had a preference so I got got a few cases of diet pepsi. Well damned if they didn't buy six-packs of diet coke every chance they got all along the trip! The diet pepsi just took up space. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Before hand I would communicate about any serious food issues, allergies, gluten free, vegan etc.
I do think staying in the one country will ease your citizenship concerns.With different arrival times I would suggest everyone meets up at the charter base or your 1st night accommodations.
3 young people will have little problem enjoying themselves without much input - well maybe a little advice and oversight!
If they are arriving in STT - their Immigration issues will be taken care of before they leave the airport terminal and shouldn't present any difficulty clearing in to BVI. Leaving from the USVI would not be a problem then, however if you do plan a visit the SVI you will still have to clear C&I there FYI.

Regarding Visa's,there are single entry and multi entry visas make sure they have multi entry visas if you plan to enter the US go to BVI and go back to the US.

And remember that the Visa Vaiver program, that most Europeans can use, is only good for entry by plane or ferry. If you enter by yacht, you need a proper visa.

[color:"blue"]The largest sailing group I've ever organized was 4 people, it was our first charter. It was a disaster mostly because the guest couple thought they were going on a luxury cruiseliner.[/color]

Completed a charter for 6 aboard a Beneteau 43, 4C, 2H, with crew members coming from 4 US cites and one from Switzerland.

The make up of your crew as you described it sounds like a good mix compared to the one above. The fact that the GF has some sailing experience helps a ton. She will be able to anticipate once she gets the lay of the boat, its rigging and sail handling equipment.

[color:"blue"]So the nephew is a US citizen but the niece is Greek.[/color]

The advice above about basing in the USVI is spot on.

[color:"blue"]I'm thinking either a largish (50'+) mono with 4 cabins or a 40'+ cat[/color]

You are thinking correctly. You'll get a mono for a bit less than a cat I would think and if you are more comfortable with a mono (like I would be) than a cat that's your best bet. 4C and 2h and there are plenty of nice offerings out there in that range. I got a lot of advise here that 6 on a 43 was too many. Worked OK except a little tight in the cockpit or salon for meals otherwise no problems. I should point out that my 4 kids and one son-in-law have all sailed extensively, independently and with me so we are familiar with tight quarters and potential issues when 6 people get inside of what amounts to a small U-Haul.

[color:"blue"]We usually do almost all our provisioning the first day and except for a few things along the way we are fine for two (and we eat on the boat almost exclusively) but I don't think we'll get away with that with 5 of us.[/color]

Split provision segments of your charter. After your first segment,think about having stores in Cruz Bay (for St. John's) and Riteway (most mooring areas around Tortola)deliver to you. Buck's in Spanish Town VG will also deliver. You can place phone orders on the fly so you don't get locked into a particular schedule. Beer, wine and liquor are considerably less expensive in Tortola than elsewhere. USVI refreshment prices are going to be higher. Go light for those provisions and load up in Tortola environs.

[color:"blue"]How do you communicate between two parties?[/color]

Three options: (1) Make sure everyone has an international dialing plan. In the USVI there is fairly good cell and 3G/4G coverage from ATT (and others) but watch roaming charges if you are ATT and pick-up a Verizon tower. Just shut off roaming on your phone to prevent that.(2) Everyone buys sim-cards or preloaded phones locally for local service. Plenty of well priced options there. This may be cheaper than international calling plans for US residents. (3) There are several free VOIP phone Apps that if you have an internet connection (not 3/4G) you can communicate enroute/as you gather. We used Viber. Easy to use. Google it.

[color:"blue"] ......meet up in STT or just have everyone meet at the boat?[/color]

I favor your second option. Our group of 6 came from 4 cites in the US and one from Switzerland. We had three others staying in a Condo at Leverick. The logistics were complicated. Everyone was on their own to get there. The deal for me was I paid for the charter (and the condo). I kept track of everyone's flight arrangements, we used Viber to communicate progress or announce delays (there were none). I flew into EIS a day before the charter and stayed at Nanny Cay Hotel. My son arranged for a water taxi for 5 from STT (where everyone else flew into) right to Nanny Cay/the dock where the boat was. The VG Condo group made thier own way to Leverick via Tortola Ferry and got the usual great service from Nick who helped arrange pick-ups, reservations and stuff. Smooth as silk.

[color:"blue"]How do you do provisioning - account for different tastes and such. I think my wife has a good idea about the niece/nephew but we have no idea about the GF.[/color]

We had one "galley wench" (my daughter who loves to cook aboard and is very good at it) as the chief planner (suspect your wife might do well at that). She developed a meal plan (2 meals a day, the rest were off the cuff or left overs) upon which we based the provisioning list. She asked for input from all of us and a deadline for that. After that, you don't like it?, too bad.

My son was the bar tender. He did all the beverage planning asking us for inputs along the way. We used the rule, "less is more" and still ended up with too much Gin, Vodka and Tonic and not enough wine/beer and Club Soda .... consumed at an alarming rate because it is an excellent elixir after too much to eat and drink the night before. One size does not fit all and your mileage will vary.

[color:"blue"]What about assigning chores and duties.[/color]

Your going to get a ton of different input on this. Here's what I did:

We had a purser (handled all the money for mooring balls, ice, grab something provisioning and extras). For a 7d charter each person kicked in $75 The $450 covered most everything although "Dad" probably paid more than his share. It covered one $200 lunch out at the Baths.

We had a Captain (me). I did NAV, safety and general commanding of the sails and rigging. My kids have sailed with me extensively and know who is in charge. That's going to be a different dynamic for you. My recommendation is that you subtly let people know that there are certain things you will be in charge of and we're not voting on those things.

Pilot (my daughter who knows how to read charts). Her job was to point out visual land marks and channel markers as we made an approach to a mooring area or docks, keep a sharp watch on the depth and, when necessary, go forward and look for coral heads.

Foredeck crew (my son and my daughter's husband). direct the Captain to the mooring ball and handle the hook up/make the boat secure in a slip with appropriate dock lines. Both know how a boat is properly tied up. Recommend you don't assign this role to someone who has no clue but DO let people learn by assigning a novice with someone who is experienced.

I also downloaded the operating manual for the boat we chartered in .pdf format and sent it to everyone in advance. My son-in-law, a good mechanic in his own right, was responsible for learning power plants and fuels. Every morning he checked belts, fluids, cooling before we cranked the engines to charge the batteries. My son had Electrics, refrigeration (AC and coolers) and Plumbing.

What all this tended to do was make the boat briefing go really quickly because the guy doing it at the charter base realized immediately we knew the boat pretty much cold before we got on it. It also led to a very smooth, trouble free operation of all systems as well as quick trouble shooting and repairs when needed.

I also asked everyone to know how to put a reef in the mainsail and sent them pictures of how to do this. We never did put a reef in but that is something all crew should understand how to do it.

As we approached Norman Island on our first day in calm seas and little wind. I threw a seat cushion over board, climbed up on the cabin top and announced I just fell overboard. My kids have experienced this with me before. It took them about 5 minutes to organize themselves, drop sails, get the boat around and pick up the seat cushion from the stern platform. Very impressed! I'd recommend you walk your crew through this. It can be fun.

Final comment on this: My kids all laughed at me when I assigned duties. After the charter they told me it was the best thing I did (except for pay for the charter of course!).


PM me or drop an email to [email]jbuch002@gmail.com.[/email] I'll be glad to help out with any questions you might have.

and you have only one charter under your belt?

Thanks everyone for your answers, it's amazing the wealth of knowledge here. I hear loud and clear I really should chill out a bit, not sweat the small stuff. Usually good at that but I got burned pretty bad on the first try!

As much as my wife would like to take them to see mosquito bay and to see the bioluminescent bay again herself, we are both starting to think that since they are coming from London and Virgin and British Airways have nonstop flights to Antigua it might be a better choice this time. We haven't made up our minds yet but we have sailed there twice and enjoyed it. None of your advice is in vain, we still have the three couples trip coming up and although the girls will be fine I have a brother and a brother-in-law that could be hard to please. Also, my wife's sister and husband will probably sail with us in the near future and they are from Greece so all of the visa waiver/visa advice is very helpful.

As for the provisioning, communications and chores/duties I think there was some very good advice. Finally, special thanks to jburch for taking the time to post so much information! I have all of this bookmarked and will be referring to it before each big trip.

Again, thanks to all and anyone feel free to add more tips.

If you have people that are hard to please, make sure they understand what things will be like upfront. Personally, hard to please people don't get invites on our trips, but since it seems you don't have a choice I think that's the best way to deal with them - setting the right expectations.

and don't "promise" anything, that is tempting Murphy's Law. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> We sketch out a very loose itinerary ahead which is fun to plan but everyone is very clear that these are just guidelines.

Glad you brought that up, it's only been 13 years and I still want to get it off my chest - you are absolutely correct about expectations. After the first fiasco we always tell anybody interested that it's more like camping on the water. We mention we are cheap and usually don't eat out so there is cooking and cleaning to do, that it might sprinkle at night and you might have to wake up and close all the hatches and then wake up again when it stops and that might repeat more than once. It can be rocky, hot, humid...

My "friend" who's sum total boating experience is waterskiing, behind my boat, was always questioning my movements usually at the point of highest stress, like when docking. His girlfriend who played the primadonna came from below, plopped down in the cockpit, turned and said "can someone hand me my coke". At the time my wife was slaving in the galley trying to get ready to go and I was fighting with something, exhausted and covered sweat on deck; no one had offered to help. Funny thing is they begged us a year later to do it again? They broke up, she soon married and guess where their honeymoon was? Bires Creek Resort on VG! That was probably her expectation for a Caribbean vacation. I have 100 other stories like this. Anyway, somehow we failed to set expectations and a few rules - after knowing them for some time I didn't know he needed to feel in control and she wanted to be pampered. I think you're right, I'm going to send and email to both my brother-in-law and brother and make darn sure they know what to expect (in a nice way and maybe even exaggerate a little). Thanks maytrix

The hatch dance can be avoided with genset and A/C. And if some people in the group want to eat out more - I'd say let them. Just be sure to work it out ahead of time so you don't under provision.

Regarding the hand me a coke, that sounds like an expectation issue I guess it would be good to remind them - this is not a cruise. This is a sailing trip - everyone on the boat is crew. Everyone will need to pitch in from grabbing a mooring, taking trash ashore, cleaning dishes, cooking and even cleaning the boat a little.. I'd say its more like renting a cabin in a remote area than camping. There isn't a maid or chef.

When at the helm, if someone starts making suggestions on how to do it better - ask them if they want to do it. And let them know that once they take over, they are then responsible for the deductible on the boat if they damage it. That might shut them up.

I guess we've been really lucky or perhaps I just know everyone we've invited well enough to know they're a good match. Only once did we have someone I didn't know at all and he wasn't demanding or anything, he just didn't help out much.

Good luck with the planning!

Thanks for the good luck.

We only had a boat with a genset once and it was Sept and a hurricane passed about 75 miles south. We hid out in CGB for two days all closed up due to rain and the AC came in really handy but we were in the forward cabin. What do people think about sleeping in the rear cabins of a mono or the rear cabin on the charging engine side of a cat? I thought it was a little too noisy to be considered white noise.

Last trip, my brother thought it would be neat to bring his GF who he already knew was not a fan of boating. Well we found out not only does she not like boating, she doesn't like flying or people or heat or swimming or snorkeling or food of any sort unless it's slathered in ketchup. You can pick your friends but you can't pick your relative's girlfriends.

Our cruise club allows RCI guests to trade in for a week on a catamaran. While the members are old hands at the comforts of a 40 FT boat, with 10 people on board, it's always a crap shoot with the new guests. A good crew usually figures out how to manage it without too much hassle, but expectations are important. Camping on the water is a good level set, but on the nicer boats it's like a really nice RV on the water. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

What was she thinking? I totally understand different personalities/likes I just don't understand why the have to hide it from us ahead of time. If only ketchup would have solved my problems I would have bought gallons!

lauraandrex,



What was she thinking? I totally understand different personalities/likes I just don't understand why they have to hide it from us ahead of time. If only the lack of heat, sun, people, flying and some ketchup would have solved my problems I would have bought gallons! I feel your pain. Bet that won't happen again!

Yes that's how I feel but I admit people skills are not my forte and I hope that a nicer yacht will make up for some of my shortfalls. I like the analogy but I might be better served to portray it as hell on water with my my brother. Hopefully, he will either be scared off of enjoy it since his expectations were set so low. I don't completely understand it but I do accept it for what it is and I'm not going to feel responsible if someone don't like it, I just hope they don't mess it up for me!

Yes... it only happened a few times where I have gotten close to my line. I fight very hard not for other people to disrupt my vacation mindset. I practice avoidance...I grab a Carib and go sit on one of the dolphin seats. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

In my boat the noise of the air conditioning units was more intrusive than the sound of the generator. That will usually be the case as generators are normally in sound-deadening enclosures whereas the ac units are inside the boat with no sound deadening.

My brother and his wife have joined us on 5-6 BVI charters. I love them both dearly and my SIL and I travel together without much fuss. She and my hubby start to grate on each other after about a week of a ten day charter.

Whenever we have had people with us Tim has felt like he was in charge and everyone else was on vacation. Even though people want to help if you are not a sailor it is not an instinctive thing. Like tying up the dingy. Tim would always check the knot after someone else ties it up.. Drove my SIL crazy, she had learned how to tie knots and was mildly insulted that he did not trust her ability. He told her after you have tied it correctly 20 times I might skip a time or 2 checking, but my name is on the contract and I am responsible for making sure it is right.

We find it more relaxing just the two of us. We have been married 35 years and pretty much know what the other is thinking..

Never stayed in an aft cabin on a mono as we always stay in the forward cabin on ours.

One a cat though, we always stay aft. Although all the cats we've been on have had a genset so we haven't had to charge with the engine. Things are pretty well insulated though. As said above, the A/C is louder than the genset in MOST cases. We did have one cat once where the genset mounts must have been loose - it was noisy and shook a lot of things.

The other thing I would add is that a lot of people have said they wanted to go on a trip with us. Even had started making plans with a few of them. When the rubber hits the road and monies are due for deposits the pool suddenly empties. Make sure you have a clear policy on canceling. Especially with young people. They have no clue how much time and energy goes into selecting a boat and procuring it or how hard it can be to change a boat once you have a deposit on it.

I think I'll make rule number two "don't cover up all my caribs with your soft drinks". Rule number one being about the head.

[/quote] In my boat the noise of the air conditioning units was more intrusive than the sound of the generator. That will usually be the case as generators are normally in sound-deadening enclosures whereas the ac units are inside the boat with no sound deadening. [/quote]

Hum, the only boat we had with a genset was an older Hunter and I can't remember if it was in an enclosure or not. If it was there is a good chance the cover wasn't put back on right or some of the seals/insulation weren't in good shape. I don't recall the blowers being that noisy but I can see how they could be. Next boat is probably going to be a cat with A/C so I'll pay attention.

As my wife has gained experience I find it harder to check her work. Sometimes I wait till after dark to fix something.

We too find it's best with just the two of us. Once in Francis Bay I watched an old couple come in on their own small boat just as the sun was setting. Neither spoke a word they had the routine down. Once the boat was taken care of each came out of the cabin with a cushion and a book and read till dark. Then the cabin lights were on just long enough to make and eat a meal and then lights out. Next morning they were gone. It was a surreal experience for me.

not all aft cabins on monos are alike, on a center cockpit boat, the cabin is huge. The center cockpit also allows for the A/C and generator to be in the large engine room.

My wife and I usually take at least six other people with us, relatives and/or friends. We've had as many as 10. Most of the people we take have been with us before, but they know that I am serious about safety and will refer them every time to safety tips I put together from comments made on this forum... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AfTmhz9wGZyxGm98-FVAOYqVO7OZa-6HEAeFyjVo6vU/edit?usp=sharing

That kind of sets the tone for the voyage.

I ask everyone if there is anything they won't eat and what their beverages preferences are, then order provisions through Riteway... http://www.rtwbvi.com/ on Tortola and have everything delivered. Beverages are usually ordered from Tico... http://ticobvi.com/

An evening start helps deal with late arrivals and allows everyone to easily stow their stuff into their berth, get used to climbing around the boat.

The first meal together that night is at a restaurant, so we can relax, get to know each other and talk about what to expect.

After a boat briefing, I leave the dock with as few people as possible involved, especially newbies. I just tell them to relax and watch for the first day or so. After that, I will allow them to help sail if they are so inclined. I let everyone handle the helm while making sure they don't do something they shouldn't.

I always charter a 50' or larger monohull with a generator and A/C. Just makes things more pleasant for everyone.

Sometimes I have to deal with a recalcitrant crew member, so I just take them aside privately and help them understand that we are all on vacation and to wait until the trip is over to express any negative feelings about anyone or anything.

I have had kids as young as five-years-old and grandparents on the boat. I give everyone several options so they feel like they have some say about what to do (snorkeling, manning the helm, reading quietly, playing games, a ride to shore in the dinghy so they can go exploring, etc.)

I enjoy cooking, so I begin the trip by doing that myself and asking if someone can cuts some vegetables or whatever. If someone else wants to cook, I let them. I make sure everyone has a chance to do the dishes afterwards.

I usually wake up before the sun broaches the horizon, make some coffee, check the weather, and plan the day. Often, as soon as there is daylight, I will start the motor, cast off the mooring and head for a destination. Everyone on the boat usually knows I don't need assistance, that they can take their time getting out of bed, and that the boat will rock a little bit. (If there is much chop, I will ease off the throttle.)

Most of the crew usually feels like this is the best vacation they have ever taken, even though they were uncomfortable at times. For me, it is the only vacation I will ever take.

My word of warning: make sure everybody being invited actually likes water and the ocean.

We have lots of friends where one half of the couple really, really wants to come and says they'd love to come. Then you question the other half of the couple and you discover that that person is so afraid of water they won't take a bath or hates immersing themselves in water or gets seasick very easily.

I'm not joking. This has happened to us many times. So I always talk to everyone who wants to come and never take their partner's word for it that they'll enjoy it.

(We did take one couple where the woman was not crazy about sailing, boats nor swimming but she'd done it a number of times and was willing to go. She was a real trooper.)

You might also want to find out if anybody is on any medication that you might need to know about....and if necessary where it's kept, any side-effects, should they be drinking alcohol while they're taking it....uggg.

I mentioned on another thread we explored doing a crewed cat charter twice and the above is a reason we decided not to do it.

Our best friends are great travelers. Three of the four in the group used to live together, we really know each other. I think they came up with the charter idea but when it came time to commit, the wife half said sorry, but she liked her 20 minute, scalding hot showers, icy AC and king-sized bed (often alone) too much to give them up for vacation and she would be happier on land, in a villa. I appreciated her honesty.

The next time, it was my husband who "bailed" on me, the same husband who was 100% on board the first time. He just didn't like the idea of a small cabin (he thinks a queen bed is roughing it and referred to the owner's side of a large cat as a "casket") and having limited choices as it related to meals.

The charters we were considering started well above $12,000 so I didn't push it.

Maybe some day......

Good note about medications. Two years ago one of our crew was a young man who was diabetic. He was careful to keep his medicine cold, but discovered that it had frozen. Not sure if it would be ok to use, we had to make a quick trip to a pharmacy who gave him what needed without a prescription. Pharmacists are different in Tortola.

Thanks rstevens,

That's a good idea to send them the Sailing Crew Safety Tips ahead of time. I liked the one about not laughing at the captain the best.

Were people able to sleep in the rear cabins with the AC/genset going?

Thanks stormster,

The second trip I mentioned, with the sister and sister in-law, was probably a creation of the girls. I'll need to ascertain what the boys think about it and start working on expectations.

beerMe... I heard no complaints about sleeping in the rear cabins with the AC/genset going. The crew is usually pretty tired at the end of the day and sleep through almost anything.

Thanks man. Good to know.

Put kids in the back. Mine are around 20 and will sleep through anything

ear plugs work very well

Yep, my wife has been an ear plug wearer for for years now (while sleeping on the boat).

I just reread all of your posts and wanted to make sure I said thank you all very much! I jotted down notes from almost every post.

I would like to add updates as things unfold to aid others in the near future and ask everyone to let me know if you see any omissions or errors in the plan. Oh, and of course tell me when I'm getting OCD!

The plan is forming - we'll try to go to Vieques to see the bioluminescent bay at Mosquito Bay, conditions permitting. So I'll need to find an outfit that allows SVI and see if they will get the boat usage fee decal ahead of time. If we have the decal I'm hoping we can call to clear into PR but if not we will do the walk to the airport. I'll try to contact C&I in Culebra ahead of time to see if having non-US aboard requires we report in person. I've seen conflicting answers and know it is always up to their discretion. My old 2001-2002 Scott's cruising guide says non-us vessels and vessels with non-resident aliens must check into PR at official ports of entry. If we have to buy the decal in Culebra we will need exact change.

It looks like there will be 5 and we have narrowed down the dates to June 27 - July 11 (14 days) so there is some progress. One US citizen, me, one Greek citizen with resident status in US, my wife, one nephew US citizen, Greek resident student in England, one niece Greek citizen, student in Wales, one nephew's girlfriend, Greek citizen now working in England. I assume I need to get the Greek niece and Greek girlfriend busy on obtaining multi-entry visas and that the US citizen nephew is ok. I am going to leave this job up to them but I want to make sure they have what they need so that we don't get any surprises. I assume those visas will solve any issues of starting from the USVI or BVI or crossing between the two. If there is time we might include a little of the BVIs for 3-4 days at least to the Baths and Anagada but we won't push it.

It looks like I will be looking for a larger monohull. The niece had a strong preference against my advice of a cat. So far I know that Island Yachts, CYOA and Sunsail allow SVIs, with conditions for the last two. If anyone knows of others in the BVI's please let me know. I know IYC is closed Sundays. Frankly, I don't think we can afford a big boat from Sail Caribe or Moorings for two weeks; we usually find discounts when we go.

All three guests will be flying from London and we are not sure if they will take the US route to STT or the island route to EIS as of yet.

My fears of their comfort won't be an issue for the niece and nephew - beyond competitive sailing for the niece, they both hold Greek sailing certificates (not international) and have been racing crew on a 36 footer in the Aegean. They are used to sleeping anywhere they can find a spot - I think they will find their accommodations luxurious. The girlfriend has no boating experience so she will be the great unknown.

That is where we stand today. There is also a restriction from the SIL that they both actually graduate. We think they will both know for sure by the end of January. Once I know that I will continue with progress reports.

Again, thanks for all of the information so far!

Why is the niece against a cat? If she's the only one against it, I don't think its worth accommodating her request.

If Sunsail allows SVI, Moorings should as well. Check www.sailonline.com to see if you can find owners time.

I agree with Maytrix, although I understand if niece is a racer the desire for a monohull, but the cockpit area and front tramp on a cat are so much better for relaxing, dining etc. my 2c is two weeks with 5 people, that mono is going to get small quick. I look at it this way, the cockpit of a 40 or so foot cat is like that of a 70 ft mono, this is vacation after all...but that is just my opinion. Add on the longer sail to and from the SVI possibilty, that added comfort and space is really nice.

beerme, I'm afraid only the owner, can apply for a decal. I get a letter in November every year asking me to renew. The boat also must be U.S. registered with U.S. owners to comply. Even with the sticker, the foreign guests must check in, in person.

Thanks Laura and Matt. Your comments have made me rethink the mono vs cat decision. In the end price and availability may be the deciding factor but my instincts were the same as yours. The SIL said she could already see alliances forming. The niece and I like to go for the gusto but my wife and nephew enjoy being on a boat the most once the anchor is down.

My niece didn't think sailing a cat was "real" sailing and said something about the higher price. I thought that too until I actually sailed one. I think that once she takes a look at the speed log she'll be hooked!

Sail2wind you're always there when I need you! I was planning on getting the charter outfit to work with the owner to get a decal for the boat if it didn't have one already. The boat being US registered makes sense and explains who some boats can and some can't. Good to know ahead of time that foreign guests will need to present in person. So my next question is how do I find the C&I office in Culebra? I know the area and where the airport is but can somebody tell me where the building is? Which side of the airport, what color the building is, coordinates something like that? If there is a "closest" place to dock or beach a dingy to reduce the walk? I've done a few walks on land and know how hot it can be.

Call the c&i by phone. They are very helpful.

There is a public dock not far from the lift bridge.

They both get powered by sails, so I count them both as real sailing. Sailing a mono can be more exciting due to the heeling, but when a cat gets moving, that's fun too. At the end of the day though, the cat is more luxurious for living on.

While we own a mono in Moorings, we typically take advantage of being able to upgrade to a cat. I figure if we wanted to sail, we could do that at home (and we do) so sailing isn't our primary goal for traveling to the BVI - its everything else and sailing is the means to go from place to place, so the type of sailing ends up being less important and comfort more important.

That is good advice to call. I think we have been on the public dingy dock you mentioned. We met a little girl that we think wanted to watch our dingy, for a price. Very persistent! I still think of her. I figure she is probably the head of marketing for some fortune 500 company by now. Is the dock about as close as we'll get to the airport? We are fine on the water but it's always amazed me how much hotter it feels on land.

Last time I was there, customs called me back on the phone and said, don't take a cab. Walking is good for you. They were surprising pleasant.

All CYOA boats have US Customs decal stickers on them already. Just sayin'...
The customs office at Culebra is at the airport. Ask when you get there if you don't see the sign. From the public dock it's less then a 10 minute walk. Calling them is a good idea. They have been very helpful friendly whenever I've called. The number is (787) 742-3531. If you are concerned with the walk, tie up at the Dinghy Dock bar and ask the bartender to call you a cab.

I think the only exception is Canadian registered vessel and Canadian citizens. We have checked in once in person when the vessel did not have a customs decal, had to pay the per check-in fee (customs user fee) rather than the decal fee as we were not the vessel owner.
The next year we requested the owner apply for the decal ahead of our arrival (I think the entire fleet now has decals) and were able to call in on arrival at Culebra. All Canadians onboard a US flagged vessel.
Customs office was easy to find from the arrivals/departure area at the airport in Culebra.
Our Canadian owned vessel will have a US Customs User Decal this summer on the Great Lakes. US Customs officers really insist on it for vessels checking in along Lake Ontario, otherwise they tend to give a fairly firm lecture that you will have one prior to your next arrival or you may be turned around. Never had that lecture from the staff at the SVI office but on the Great Lakes, they expect Canadian vessels to have one prior to entry. Makes check-in fairly easy for all involved anyway

Thanks Warren, somewhere I got the impression is was a longer walk than it actually is (more below). After 30 minutes hiking in the tropical heat I don't look presentable. Yeah, the C&I guy I cleared in with over the phone was very nice.

Thanks Kimber,

Good to know CYOA boats already have the decal. If it's only 10 minutes no problem!

Just want to give a special mention to bviboater and Jorgen for the info about multi entry visas and that the fact that the Visa Waiver Program does not apply to non-bonded carriers.
Funny, this link at noonsite which was last updated October 2014 Puerto Rico Formalities claims the VWP applies to international crew arriving "for the first time". They say it has been confirmed to be perfectly legal if they first take a ferry from BVI to USVI then they can enter the USVI again or SVI by yacht, as long as they have a valid ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization). I don't think we'll try that but I'll mention it so if other international travelers are interested they can research.