End Sea Turtle Hunting Season in the BVI

As many of you have been following, Gumption has been leading an initiative to end the legal hunting of turtles in the BVIs. Some time ago, he and other advocates started a petition form on moveon.org. The goal was to collect over 5,000 signatures, and they are at 4,613 as of right now. Just today, the Branson family also signed it, so it should get more traction.

Wouldn't it be nice to see more of these beautiful creatures on our charters? Don't they really make the whole trip for our kids (and us)?

Please join the list by clicking here to sign the petition.

As you can see on their Facebook page, they have been working on this signature goal for some time. I trust that the TTOL community can help blow past the number by spreading this to your friends and family.

Once the petition is signed, additional help may be requested from the TTOL community to put this into action. Stay tuned. Any thoughts you have on how to enact this change are also GREATLY appreciated.

--

PETITION BACKGROUND The British Virgin Islands has a Sea Turtle Hunting season December 1st through March 31st.

They are legally allowed to harvest Hawksbill and Green Sea Turtles, both endangered animals.

Hawksbill turtles (must be 15+inches carapace length) and Green turtles (24 +inches carapace length) but these sizes still put them in the late juvenile / sub-adult age and the fact they do not have a size limit is even worse since those are the ones probably nesting here but live elsewhere.

There is a moratorium on loggerhead turtles, leatherback turtles, & all sea turtle eggs.

Thanks for posting this! Gumption and the team are working hard on this important initiative. You can also monitor activities on our website:
http://www.savetheturtlesbvi.com/
Thank you!!!
Diana

Done

Me too.

Done <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Done. Looks like quite a few people have signed on 3/1/15

Sea turtle stew is yummy. Made by locals its a renewable resource.

Not funny

I see that the petition is addressed to "Ralph T. O'Neal, Premier of the British Virgin Islands" which is a bit out of date.

Done and shared with my FB friends.
Hopefully this comes into fruition.

I understand local culture, but these beautiful animals are ENDANGERED.
I still have the vision of a local in Carrot Bay beheading a Sea Turtle that he had harvested burned in my memory.

Thanks Tarroc. Yes the person who started the petition has been notified that the directive needs to be updated to the new Premier. Thanks for spotting it though!!

Signed! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Just Signed!

I understand and do not like it any more than you guys do, BUT, it is going to be very hard to end a practice by locals that has been going on since before the islands had names. While you are at it, add [censored] fighting to that list. I think at least they use the turtles for food, the [censored] fighting that goes on has no social redeeming value whatsoever.

Add dog fighting to that, too.

I would presume that dog fighting is illegal in BVI though, no?

just signed

Thanks for posting this.
I sign every petition I can on this subject.
These turtles are soooooo critically endangered... when they are gone, they are gone forever.

Done..and thanks..

accomplished and thanks for posting this

Signed

Dog fighting goes on all over the BVI...whether its illegal or not makes little difference..

Signed.

underatood and thanks for the reply Mal. My question was for real and two foldm one to ask if it was indeed against the law, dog fighting that is, and two if it was common practice. I was also making the point that outlawing something does not necessarily end its practice.

No doubt, cockfighting and dog fighting are barbaric practices that should be against the law and should be eliminated. Endangered species should be proteced. The politics of achieving that are tremendously complicated.

Signed

Signed

Signed!

Just signed

I signed the petition.
The sea turtles are not endangered but I like them and would not eat one and that's why I signed the petition.

sail445 - wiki has hawksbill sea turtles listed as "CR" which is critically endangered.

Is this incorrect? I'd love to learn that they are not critically endangered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawksbill_sea_turtle

They have no way of checking the populations of sea turtles except maybe in certain bays.
There has always been an abundance in the Caribbean at least for the last fifty years.
People thought they could eradicate the Lion fish which turned out to be impossible they are in all the bay's and all sides of the islands and in all the corals between.

Done

signed

Done.

Twanger- Just to touch on your question, a recent National Geographic article lists the Hawksbill as Critically Endangered. The below article details the Hawksbill Turtles amazing plight, along with detailing it's endangered status.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/reptiles/hawksbill-turtle/

I hope this helps!

You'll notice NG states they're endangered but they don't tell you any statistics.
The turtle is and has been a food source for centuries.

Hawksbill = yummy

Always love the argument that something has been a food source for centuries. Look around. Some things have changed in the last 300 years. If you're hungry, order a pizza from your phone and have it delivered to your home in 20 minutes.

Thanks for posting and supporting the ban. I signed it and shared the link with others to consider signing it.

Tony

Wrong answer, enjoy your pizza.

Wouldn't it be nice if people did not come down here, fall in love with the place, and then start trying to push their own agenda.

Turtles have been a food source here for hundreds of years. Turtles are not exported. They are simply a food source for local people.

Maybe some BVIslanders should come to your country and tell you how to manage it.

Over and out.

I said the same thing sorta but got shot down by someone with a better moral compass than me.

Well said Mangum. I thought, I hope the people, mostly in the US are bright enough to keep their opinions about turtles to online polls and not share their zealotry with belongers who have been harvesting turtles their entire lives. While thinking "we are the enlightened" sharing our vast knowledge of the universe with the great unwashed...it makes those indigenous to the islands who have welcomed you as a guest view you as at least tone deaf if not brain dead.

It is not all that different than some coastal elitists coming to my neck of the woods and trying to enlighten the hunters of deer, Turkey or migratory waterfowl to cease and desist. They would likely smile a bit after your speel and nod and if you are lucky say "that's nice"...,instead of BS punk where do you get off coming to my country and telling me what to eat?

Like quail in our area, far more turtles in the bvi likely succumb to natural causes than becoming turtle soup.

How about this? Out of concern for turtles, the bvi pass an ordinance that says no anchoring in the territory. See what those anchors do to the sea grass? A turtles lunchbox? Maybe decrease the number of charter boats by half and double the price with some proceeds going to turtle restoration?

gumption is making his living off off tourists wanting to see Turtles, and because Branson is his benefactor. He certaintly is not a policy spokesman for the BVI citizens anymore than code pink speaks for all US citizens.

Do I and most other visitors want to see the wildlife harmed ? Nope, but I am bright enough to keep my mouth shut when in someone else's country dealing with their heritage.

I don't think anyone is not going to vacation in the BVI if they don't listen to a bunch of tourists about their turtle season. Btw if ever had turtle soup at Brennan's in NO, it doesn't taste like chicken... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I would much rather they make poisoning dogs a crime and eat a few
turtles..so do our two pups. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

WWF has a different view.

"Nearly all species of sea turtle are classified as Endangered. Slaughtered for their eggs, meat, skin and shells, sea turtles suffer from poaching and over-exploitation. They also face habitat destruction and accidental capture in fishing gear. Climate change has an impact on turtle nesting sites."
https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/sea-turtle

How has Climate change affected turtles?

It is a native of Virgin Gorda, Gumption, who is leading this effort.

I'd bet that Gumpton and his family eat turtles.

I'm sorry, but are quail, deer, ducks or any of the other migratory fowl you refer to endangered species? Or even close to endangered species? I do agree with you though, people that poison dogs are lowere than low.

I agree with everything stated (actually "Over and out" is not correct). Culture is culture and I think that it should be respected up to a certain line.

For example, what I have recently read about rape in India is abhorrent.

But the BVI tradition of taking turtles for food, the number that are realistically taken and the fact that none are exported makes this a no-brainer.

Lively conversation. Thank you for all of the opinions, as we all have one. It was great hearing from a number of Non-Belongers who object to this petition. Please note that, as a fellow Non-Belonger, this is not my cause and I am not pushing my own agenda. I simply wanted to bring awareness to a Belonger who is trying to make change within his own culture. I also observed from the petition that many other BVI residents also support this cause. So I'm a little lost on the recent posts that this is an outsider's agenda to push an unwanted change on the locals. Again, I simply wanted to raise awareness of someone else's efforts to make change within his own culture. While there have been a few who have objected in this thread, it seems that the petition gathered another 1,500 signatures in the past week (both BVI residents and tourists) who think otherwise. <out>

I would't compare it with the rape in India it's more like the consumption of Albino humans in Africa.

How do you know that Karl Pytlik is a belonger?

But gumption is

and Gumption who's picture got a local on Anegada fined for bringing in a 10/11ft Hammerhead e missed the 11ft Black Tip that was also taken out the mooring field at Anegada, these large predators are becoming regular visitors to this area and the reason....TURTLES they come because there is a large population and sharks find them tasty.

Tigers also snack on them.

So...if they become extinct everyone misses out..locals who eat them..guides who show them to the $$ guests and all snorkelers and divers..even the sharks have to look elsewhere for a snack ( watch your back those in the water). Is that not reason enough to show a little common sense and protect them if they are nearing extinction..just saying!

They're not even close to becoming extinct there isn't any proof whatsoever except hear say.
Like Dr Gray predicting hurricanes... He's been wrong for 20 years.
It's the same for global warming.
Example Freon,they taxed it where it cost $300 for a 30 lb tank yet you could purchase it in St Martin or anywhere in the world for $40.00. The lobbyist which are the Congress payed themselves off.

Your point is well taken but misses the agenda of the petition. To end the hunting season in the BVI, nobody commercially fishes for Turtle in the BVI, there are very few commercial fisherman except the Lobster & Pot fishermen and on another post was to stop Pot fishing so the Groupers can help with Lionfish( which came from the USA) flushed away but now breeding in the BVI.
Stop any commercial fishing for Turtle worldwide I would sign in a heartbeat but to tell locals around the world and here in the BVI that they can't catch what they have always caught because someone in a First world country messed up their enviroment so badly they now want to halt progress in the islands because they want to keep them special for vacation time.
Who decides the cute scale? The media/internet controls the world as no one cares about Cows, Pigs, Chicken, Wahoo, Mahi, LOBSTERS, Conch but a cute little turtle and everyone is up in arms.

BTW Lobsters will become extinct after the Cockroaches.
Lobsters live in a larger neighborhood then us land dwellers. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

It's hard to fight such overwhelming proof of "Hear-Say" as presented in argument by Sail 445. However, there are some Caribbean countries ( Barbados, Cuba, Mexico, Puerto Rico) that seem to think getting involved with a little known activity called "science" and making decisions based on the pesky argument of "facts" as opposed to "it's gone on for centuries", with the end result being a ban on harvesting of the Hawksbill and other "sustainable" food sources known as sea turtles.

Perhaps reading the study results may be interesting to those that appreciate knowledge as a source for drawing an opinion.

If you simply google it, the studies drawing the same conclusion, world wide, are endless.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/turtles/hawksbill.htm
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/species/hawksbillseaturtle2013_5yearreview.pdf
http://www.barbados.org/species/project.htm
http://www.jbhp.org/vision/

Lionfish didn't come from the US. They came from the Indian Ocean. If you would teach the turtles to eat the lionfish all of your problems would be solved.

Gumption does good things.

But my point was that Gumption did not originate the petition; in fact, he was the 4602nd to sign it, and then promoted it.

And in going back to find that he was 4602, there were few signers from Tortola, and the vast majority of them (who left more than their first names) were white ex-pats, not belongers.

Excuse me, what does the skin color of the signers have to do with anything?

Culture.

Nope.

The correct term for denying people participation in society because of their race is racism.

OK, let's not go there, people.

This petition took years to even get close to its quota. I'm guessing that now that it's so well known, what would be the outcome if there was a petition in support of keeping the current season on turtles? I'm guessing it wouldn't take 1/2 as long to get 5000 signatures in full support of keeping it as is. The turtle population here in the BVI has actually grown over these years,.....especially right here in Anegada, so if it's not broken or on its way to breaking, why fix it? Cause I see more and more turtles every year here and that's an actual fact.

I'm in complete agreement.
Not one organization can prove they were endangered, there is no way to count them.
Personally I wouldn't eat a turtle although I've been to places that serve them.

Let's not confuse the issue with actual facts.

The people of the BVIs are uniquely qualified
to make decisions like this.
They don't need my help.
One man's opinion, nothing more,
nothing less.

Mike

No offense there NCSailor, I certainly don't want to question the validity of Danny's eye test on the local turtle population, but it seems that the surrounding Caribbean countries, with a university system in place, have conducted their own studies and they respectfully disagree (as evident by the sea turtle harvesting ban put in place by local governments).

With that being said, and I'm sure Danny must know this, on Anegada the Horseshoe Reef Protection Act was established waaaay back in the early 1990's, in cooperation with the BVI government, to help the local sea turtle population rebound. It's great to hear that it's had an impact.

Respectfully, the Belonger/Non Belonger argument, the attempt to make this about infringement on the rights of local culture, simply doesn't hold water when the nations around you have found their turtle populations to be Critically Endangered and have enacted harvesting bans to try and reverse the trends....done so based on DECADES of scientific study.

It's all about educating and working together so you can protect your local resources, so your childrens children can taste Hawksbill stew, so that my children can visit and taste Hawksbill Stew. But in a cooperative study, involving Australia to Egypt, all the way to Barbados these folks with PHD's have found that, at the rate of current consumption and habitat destruction, we can expect the Hawksbill and the Green Turtle to be extinct in 30-40 years.

There's going to be opposition, just like there was in places like The Caymans, Cuba, the USVI, Barbados etc. That's to be expected. Change always has opposition.

I'm not an activist. I grew up in Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest. I hunt and I fish. My father used to tell me that there was no proof to the stories of dwindling salmon populations...and I believed him, until they were gone from the local streams and rivers.

My first visit to the BVI's was in 1993 and I remember seeing hundreds of sea turtles on our short boat ride from Beef Island to Marina Cay. This past September I took my children on a two week vacation, their first BVI trip, they got to see one in the same waters. One. Maybe it was just bad timing? Maybe the migration routes have changed? Maybe Sail445 and Danny, along with a few others on this post are correct and the world wide sea turtle population is just fine. Which means all those folks who spent 12 years in school to get doctorates, then chose to use those expensive credentials to make very little money by participating in the study of sea turtles across the world, are simply trying to push an agenda that is false and self serving.

I'm not sure who to believe now? The guy who says there is no proof the species is endangered, or the hundreds of studies and subsequent numbers and corresponding information provided as rebuttal to that sentiment?

It was a tough decision but I'm going with option two...science wins. Science says these creatures are "Critically Endangered", not because they are cute (as one post eluded to) but because the numbers are critically low and the creature is in jeopardy of being extinct within my children's lifetime.

Well put. Does anyone know when the last study was actually done around here? Or is this a regional study on average? I'm curious. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Kona, you're a perfect example of a follower.
Please show the evidence.
Just because National Geographic says they're endangered. THINK and ask NG where are the statistics.
And guess what there aren't any... It's all hearsay

Sail445 - I put a 92 page study link available for you to read, not from National Geographic, but from the University of West Indie/Barbados government. You should read more and talk less.

Danny- great question. From what I've been able to find, a recent USVI study was completed in 2013, Puerto Rico is on going, most recent numbers as of 2012, that I've found. But, I have found nothing specific to BVI waters completed recently. It would be great if this debate could result in the BVI participating in a study locally again, as was done in the 90's.

It's ironic, but on my first visit to the BVI's I bought a book of poetry written by local students of Issabella Morris School (I think that was the name). The main topic was conservation, specifically sea turtles. A young girl named Akesha Smith, I think she was 8-9 years old, wrote a great poem about conserving the sea turtles environment. Considering her age, I was very impressed.

Anyway- it was obvious to me at that time communication and understanding on environmental studies was being addressed in the BVI's educational system. Hopefully that's still the case.

It's a beautiful place! The people are friendly and hospitable and I as a visitor certainly don't want to change the culture. Saving a species from extinction should be all of our responsibility, transcending culture, race, geography etc.

After reading through this thread again I must say that whether or not the turtles are endangered should be a non-issue. If one feels they should not be taken for food that is that person's right. Having said that, simply signing a petition to stop an activity is a poor excuse for proactivity and just makes a person feel better about themselves, like they have actually done something to help. If one feels strongly enough about this issue, then get involved, contact the leaders in charge of this movement and actually do something. Adding your name to a list? Easy. Working for the cause? Hard Work. Lets hear from those who feel strongly enough about this issue to take the hard road, volunteer their time and money, and make something happen.

Kona, there are thousands of pages written about global warming and they turned out to be false.
Your 92 pages on turtles is just plain bull.

As is your comment on global warming. Only propaganda and those that spread it label global warming as false.

You're obviously on cloud nine

I believe we have about burned out this subject