Baggage charges for luggage on ferry instituted

All of the ferry companies are now charging $3 per bag on the ferries. More and more expensive to get to the BVI <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Does that include things like backpacks?

Only one small hand held is allowed free.

Here is my take on all of this.
If you are going to charge for baggage, then there is no reason to tip the baggage handler like I used to. Unless I get some special service at the airports (LIke getting an overweight bag on board for free) then I see no reason to tip. Same goes for the ferry bag handlers. Same with the taxi drivers on STT. In general unless I get special services no more tips.
Usually I (and wife) travel with 6 bags (carryon included) the cost for baggage fees on the ferry will be $18 each way. I don't believe speedy ferry is charging yet to Virgin Gorda.
So in the last few years we are now being charged $10 to leave STT, $10 to enter BVI, $20 to leave BVI, and now $3 per bag. The fees never seem to end. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

The ferries have soared in cost as a direct result of American Eagle pulling out of the SJU-EIS market. I hoped someone else would come into that market with a big block of seats but it has not happened. EIS was a valid option the ferries had to compete with and airfares were often not much higher into EIS. With 384 seats a day gone from the market airfares into Tortola now seem much higher then STT. I think CYOA loves the change also!

I think I saw something on the BVI community FB page about American coming back to EIS....

Maybe direct flights from Miami

http://bvinews.com/new/american-airline-likely-to-return-signs-mou/

from a few days ago

TP, it's not the baggage handlers fault. It's like taking too long to get your food and you punish the waitress, while it's the kitchens fault

Well this is not going to be anytime soon it would appear. AA would "consider" returning after the expansion and other improvements for direct flights from the US. That probably would mean MIA and one of their smaller planes, as the market conditions probably would not have the passenger support for the larger planes.

Surprisingly one of the very best short runway aircraft is the 757 with 180 to 200 seats. The aircraft can make Orange County to Atlanta from a 5700 foot runway with a full load and bad weather reserve fuel. That is almost a 1700 mile trip. MIA to EIS is only 960 miles. If they extend the runway to 5500 feet MIA would be easy for the 757 and Atlanta possible.

Extending the runway will ruin Trellis Bay and Marina Cay

How much of a problem is not having a straight in approach and no ILS for these larger aircraft?

Not saying with the expansion that a larger plane will not be able to land with the passengers. Saying where are that number of passengers coming from to fill the plane. If the plane it not full then they are not going to run the route. So it seems it would have to be a hub location to pull the passengers for the connection -- for AA MIA would make sense and they could get away with a smaller plane that might actually have a profitable load.

You can have the best runway in the world, but if you do not have the passenger to make a profitable run, then the airline is not going there just because it is a nice runway. And no matter what EIS is going to have STT as a major competitor -- so pricing will also be a factor when it comes to people buying the tickets.

We have notes here on a regular basis asking if there are others wanting to share the cost of a 10 seat plane. So imagine a 180 seat plane .. has to be a market to fill that plane. So maybe only once or twice a week and from a hub that AA can get the people from other flights to make the connection. AA appeared to be talking about direct flights from the US, so that leaves out SJU.

Don't know all of the AA hubs, thinking your main choice would be: MIA, DFW, Charlotte (because of the USAir merger) and the New York area airports. Atlanta is there but not really a major hub for AA, so for ticket pricing purposes don't think Atlanta would be in the mix.

I suspect other airlines might be interested. I mentioned Atlanta with Delta in mind. Delta has some 737-700's with the short runway kit seating 124. I think that they run to several markets 1 or 2 days a week with that airframe. Eagle was running 300 plus seats a day from SJU with the vast majority of passengers connections from the U.S. I suspect the market would support a daily flight for someone from the U.S.
If they extend the runway the BVI government is going to have to pull in flights or look very foolish. It would not surprise me to see them offer to subsidize a airline flying from the U.S.
The flights would have to be somewhat cost competitive with STT however I suspect people would pay at least 150.00 extra to avoid the Ferry or SJU. They would also pull down the STT loads a bit so that would factor in to a decision.
G

I don't disagree with you... but I would be surprise about other airlines at this point in time. And yes, STT could be a problem, depends on pricing. But the Eagle flights I am not sure is a good indicator. Reason is that they did have multiple flights from SJU per day, smaller planes (puddle jumpers). When you get to one flight even every day then the options and load become complicated for the airline. You have to get the people to the connection, get them onboard and landed, turn the plane around with a full load to make the connection back to their home.

If bvi subsidizes then that is different, but for how long and how much. Have seen it before on many destinations. Daily then drops significantly later.

But it also has to do with accomadations, yes there is a lot of bed space on BVI, but not compared to many of the other islands, and specifically to USVI. You have major chains, etc., that offer vacation packages, etc. that really do not exist in BVI... but BVI has a major charter industry yes, but they are not going to be offering vacation charter packages would be my guess.

I can hear the hoots and howls now about cutting my charter short or having to spend $$$$ to extend because of the direct flights -- so then they take the STT flights and ferries and the demand is not there again, so the airlines say forget it. Being pessimistic/realistic, but the runway alone is not the answer to the airfare/flight issues with BVI. I think that there are many other issues that will also have to be addressed to answer that question.

The easier it is to get there, the sooner it will get congested. See the difference in Antigua and Barbuda, St Martin and Saba, Tortola and Anegada. Sometimes it is good to have to take two pack mules and a an extra day to get somewhere. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes you are correct. Just looked for kicks -- delta has one flight tomorrow to STT.

SXM yes is different. So it is not a fair comparision at all. Saba, well you have to basically get to SXM to get there! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

And people have complained because of the lack of direct flights -- and there are still tons every day. So a runway is not the end all for something like this, there are many other issues that have to be addressed. As SXM can handle a 747, so the runway is not the issue, and yet the airlines are killing direct flights all of the time.

Now if the two pack mules could swim and keep the luggage dry -- ok that is an option! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> But I do not trust pack mules! Never had one, but still do not trust them! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> My understanding is that they are mean! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

I am taking that you have had an experience with pack mules? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> Not sure I want to know! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

One interesting thing about flights to tourist destinations. Whenever there is a downturn in business travel airlines move airframes to tourist markets. When business travel picks up the airframes shift back to higher yield business markets. We are currently in the pro business phase. That limits seats to tourist markets.
G

We don't charge any baggage fees on our "Ferries". We load them up 10 minutes from an airport with direct flights from the mainland. We let you drive them yourself <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Friends don't let friends ride ferries. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

It's a real pity the the politicians don't share Mr. Hill's analysis. Of course, there is the real potential for payoffs to their pockets to get their white elephant airport. Bye-bye, BVI!

So the kitchen prepares your meal faster and you give the "food carrier" a better tip.

So I take three bags with me, to and from, at 3 bucks each, three trips a year........Yep, that $ 54.00 a year is going to put those trips way over my budget.

Thorsten, you're always complaining like somebody owes you something. You've already sold your boat, so just sell your villa and you'll really show them <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Folks, get your terminology correct...

Non-stop is just that.

Direct flights make a stop(s) without a change of planes.

Use 'em correctly please. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Joy.gif" alt="" />

Either way, you'll never see a jet with > 100 seats into EIS on a daily basis. There are not enough hotel rooms, condos, resorts, or private homes needed for faces in the windows to fill the the heads in beds

Yep. I'll be there febuary on Justkat.

What a ridiculous analogy, food carrier? you tip on services rendered

The real solution is to keep the airport the same and take a tiny fraction of the cost to expand the airport for the purpose of providing a reasonable costing ferry system that is safe and reliable. They could also expand the C&I at the ferry docks so that it's quick and efficient. Last trip it took 90 minutes to clear. The cruise ship passengers simply walked off the ships.
George

Always the gentleman....

Having spent two weeks last month worrying every day about getting a ball in just about any overnight anchorage, I would welcome anything that reduced the crowds. I would like to relive the era where we could sail to a daytime anchorage, snorkel and eat lunch, then sail to another spot for snorkeling, happy hour,etc. Now I worry at breakfast about getting a ball that evening and I don't get to enjoy as many spots.

The fact that it's a little difficult and somewhat expensive to get to helps preserve the character of the BVI. Be happy it doesn't have a really long runway with 50 flights per day from the US. If your looking for cheap flights, big resorts and easy access, there is always Cancun...

I would somewhat disagree with that. There are over 1000 charter boats in the BVI with a average capacity of at least 6 people. I have been at the moorings when they alone sent out 60 boats in one day.
Still I think the solution is a much better Ferry system.
George

What happens when a flight is delayed overnight? How are you going to get 100 people a one night hotel? It is not going to happen. People will sleep at the airport, be pissed and tired and have a horrible experience. With multiple flights to the US from STT or SJU I would much prefer to take my chances getting to or from on a route that has more than one flight a day or less. Improving the ferry system and stable regional airlines is a much better solution than destroying the very thing that the tourist dollar comes to see.

There are lots of markets like the BVI that deal with what you are talking about. Cancelations are pretty low these days. The airlines do set up plans for those situations. The AMR flights held 64 people and on several occasions I saw where the last two flights were canceled. Most would probably be rebooked out of the USVI by ferry and some via extra sections to SJU.

How many flights filled with 100 people could they have?

While I wouldn't mind paying less, I've been very happy with our direct from Boston to San Juan and then taking Cape Air to Tortola.

For us, it seems a direct flight from the US would simply mean making a stop in a different place and then having 1 or 2 flights to get us there. Much more limiting than the number of options we now have to get to San Juan and then from there to Tortola.

Who ever takes on mainland flights to EIS will have to be very flexable on scheduling.

There are about 2,500 guest beds in the BVI so with the charter yachts I would put the total guest capacity at around 12,000. Occupancy rate is right at 67%. Over the past 5 years the total arrivals have averaged about 380,000/year or about 1,100/day but it is highly variable from more than 2,300 per day in March to less than 200 in September. It also varies considerably by day of the week and with the average stay being 9.7 days the top departure days don't match the top arrival days. A well run ferry system can handle wide swings in demand much easier than an airline and combining BVI traffic with the USVI traffic will greatly smooth out the day to day variations.

I'm with Matt and Rita. With Southwest now flying BWI-SJU non-stop and several options (AS, Cape, Seaborne) for flights SJU-EIS, it's as easy to get to Tortola as I'd like it to be. I'd also love to see the total flight cost to be a little lower, but given the total trip cost, it seems to be a reasonable %. Flight costs would have to go another $200-300 per person round trip higher for us to consider going back to the STT route.

I wonder if there were better air connections into EIS, if charter guests would then modify their schedule to sink up with the good air connections? If, say there was a nonstop from Miami on Saturday and Wednesday, a lot of people might go to that schedule, down on Saturday, home on Wednesday, etc. Probably a nonstop from somewhere like Miami would be the most useful to folks coming from the west coast, for example, that can't get to EIS with only one connection now.

I look at the SJU to EIS leg as worth a bit extra as well - its like a scenic flight - I have some amazing pictures from those flights..

For us at least, end of day when I've compared going to STT vs SJU-EIS it isn't a huge price difference.

I'm with Capt Jay! Direct (and Non-stop)to STT

That was my thought. In the grand scheme of things, this is peanuts.

Yep, totally agreed Matt. When you factor in the time it takes to get from STT to the ferry dock, wait for the ferry, the ferry ride over, then waiting in the cattle line to clear customs, then factor in the cost of the ferry and all the fees there, the cab, tips, plus the chances of finding a zoo at STT on the way home, the cost differential between flying into EIS vs STT just doesn't seem justified to us. It is a nice, scenic flight from SJU-EIS, and on top of that, it is SO much nicer to deplane and clear customs with a half dozen other travelers, step over to the car rental counter and be off on vacation!

Every year I head down I compare the EIS vs STT option for getting into Tortola. Getting a couple of extra hours on Tortola is nice, and we have done that route, but When I booked last year price was not even close.
Almost $400 per ticket more to get into EIS. (just checked kayak and IAD to EIS is running $800-$1200. STT flights are about $480) Even taking the taxis, we about cover all our provisioning with the price difference.

Once we touch down in STT we are on island time. And the view from the ferry on the trip over ain't too shabby either.
We arrive STT @ 1:30 and will be in Roadtown by 4pm.

Now put in ferry dock at the STT airport...now that would be nice! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Just checked AA.com for our next dates. Looks like the cheap flight to STT (with a stop) from BWI is $505 round trip. Looks like flying Southwest BWI-SJU non-stop for us should be about $345 rt, plus another, let's just call it $300, from SJU-EIS. So, we're paying an extra $140 (before factoring in ferries, cabs, fees, tips) per person and chopping probably 3-4 hours off our travel day.

I guess it all depends on where you are flying from and what factors are important for you. For me, I am not "there" and relaxed until I am "there". And I especially don't enjoy standing in a hot, cramped line with people pushing and shoving waiting to clear customs. If you asked me while standing in that line if I would pay $200 to go straight to the front of the line, I'd hand you my wallet and say "take what you think is fair"!

To each their own! I'm glad people prefer flying in to STT. If everyone did fly into EIS, my tickets would just cost more.

I know for us coming from Indianapolis, it was $300-350 more. I really wanted to just fly in to EIS and forget STT, but with a group of 6 it was $1800-2100 more in airfare. It just wasn't worth it. Not to mention we were having a hard time finding 6 open seats from SJU to EIS on the weekend on the same flight.

One thing to also keep in mind. If you are flying on two different bookings and a flight is delayed you no longer have a booking with the other airline. I have all to often over the years watched people have big issues when a flight on one airline is delayed and you miss another flight. As a courtesy most airlines will let you standby for a later flight but they are often full.
Make every effort to book all your flights on one passenger record so someone owns your problem.
George

TPCOOK,
Thanks for the notification about the ferry baggage fee.