Chartplotter

So as I've done in preparing for other charters, I emailed the charter company yesterday to get the make and model of the chartplotter for our upcoming trip. We're booked on a 2016 Lagoon 450. I typically like to give the online manual a quick read and see if there are any cool features to move waypoints and routes from my iPad over to it. No biggie if not, but something to fill the time as I count down the days.

I expected anything but their actual response, which was - there is no chartplotter on that boat. They recommended that we bring our own GPS. Huh? A $600k+ boat that has been in the program since last summer doesn't have a chartplotter? Especially in the BVI's where most folks are just a year or two ahead of being a CCC? That's fine - we have backup plan after backup plan, but that was surprising. I don't want to get into a trash session until I confirm everything on the ground and see how the whole experience goes, but I've learned not to ASSume that little detail. Thoughts from the group? Do you often charter boats that don't have a chartplotter? Even the little 36' monos that we've charted had something.

Maybe ask if it has a MFD. Maybe they're all confused. Can't imagine it doesn't have chart plotter.

Also booked a 2016 lagoon 450 and was wondering the same thing.... who did you book with?

You might want to ask about an autopilot too?

I leave my Garmin handheld at home now. Garmin and Navionics on the phone/tablet are just plain better than the handheld and are cheaper to update. The updated detail depths are great for places like Anegada harbor that have changing depths. But, they can drive the autopilot.

Cheers, RickG

Thanks Subaqua. I'll confirm with them again, but it was clear that there was a paper chart (!). Rick - yup, I have my 4G iPad and iPhone all loaded with the Garmin Blue Charts, routes and waypoints. Plugged in Walkers coordinates for the Anegada approach, and we're all good. Thanks, again. Yes, the boat is equipped with autopilot.

I always bring a hand-held Garmin GPSMap76CSX with chip for the Blue Charts for the Caribbean.

It has helped save my bacon a few times.

One time the chart-plotter of the charter boat was simply wrong. It showed us driving across the reef at Marina Cay, when we were driving behind the reef. My handheld was fine. I simply ignored the chart plotter for the rest of the trip.

Another time when sailing out of St. Vincent our boat lost all power (eventually traced to a battery cable problem) and we navigated the rest of the day using the Garmin.

In other cases the boat simply didn't come with a chart-plotter in the cockpit, and the last thing I'm gonna do is go below when navigating in close quarters.

I trust my hand-held because I've used it for many years. Your mileage may vary with units that come with charter-boats.

Over the years I've found that most reputable charter companies are equipping boats better and paying more attention to this stuff.

I've chartered boats with and without GPS receivers. I've also had a couple without autopilot. I always bring and use my own GPS as I'm the one who put in the waypoints and am familiar with it's operation.

The autopilot is no big deal, but it sure is nice on the run from Anegada to Jost!

Man...I still have marks on my back from the beating I took on this board a few years ago when I suggested I even looked at my waypoints for the trip into Anegada...I guess the times they are a changing.

Do you use an Ipad? In sunlight, I just cannot see anything on my Ipad screen.

Lol. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Some people get a little 'over-zealous'. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

The "new" Anegada blue charts are even worse that the old ones, and the old ones were off significantly.

Those of us who have been there a number of times have our own stock of way points set up that work for us.

A good resource for navigation to Anegada can be found at this web-site BVI Pirate

There's waypoints for Anegada?!? I just thought you headed pretty much north out of the north sound and followed all the other boats till you see the markers and then just followed them in.

There is a unnamed charter company that does not like the use of auto pilots or chart plotters.

We have a chartplotter, but for our recent SVI trip I relied on the ipad as first resort. It was bright enough under the bimini. But, it will not last for a long crossing on a single battery charge.

I bought RAM mount components and a $30 SUPCASE that is optimistically water resistant (worked). The ipad is mounted on the grab rail at the helm.

Cheers, Rick

It has a name. It's called Captain's Compass.

He also has a lecture about not reefing the jib with the roller furler. It is a roller furler not a roller reefer. And if you use the autopilot you will surely go below and start drinking beer and wreck the boat.

Yup. Rent a cat and follow a mono!

RickG, thanks - I just bought my RAM setup yesterday! Glad to hear it's worked for you. I went with the suction cup connector, though. Typically plenty of surface to work with, me thinks. Also went with the Lifeproof Nuud waterproof case. Good thing about having an older iPad Air is that they have plenty of overstock on eBay that folks are looking to get rid of for a good price. Typically a $90 case that I got for new for $25.

Ahoy ... Brent here ... I guess because you have never done business directly with me that there is some confusion. It has been the same briefing for the past 5 years.
With the bias/camber cut and little luff packing (rope/foam) on a +100% headsail I do ask the Captain to have a little sympathy for the Owner and furl rather than reef the jib ... as the weather dictates.
Please use the GPS and Chartploter as much as you want, need, don't want, don't need? Yes, I prefer to have someone on the helm while underway due to CC Captains and fish traps, of course all the yachts have working auto helms if you need a break in open water, but not within a harbor ... again, for the safety of the yacht and in consideration of the Owner.
Sorry if I take the safety, long term reliability, and conscientious operation of my Owners yachts personally.

HiYa Brent, just a curious owner of a boat...NOT in charter. I see the point about the JIB roller furl. Now to the next question, if one has a mast furling main, then I would assume the same logic to apply making a roller jib+mast furl rigged yacht "un-reefable".

I have a Bavaria Vision, which is typically referred to as a main sailer, with a lessor jib.

Or maybe this is a question best asked on a technical sailing website. Either way, this is definitely off topic. It wouldn't be the first time on this board, I would be okay if the MOD deletes it

I have rented from Brent for my last 3 charters, and I don't see any problems with his procedures.

I use the chart plotter, but mainly for SOG, I also do not like the auto pilot, I am there to sail (or motor) to my next destination, it is part of the total experience, if I want a break on the helm, there are several others that can steer.

I seriously can't imagine what the hubbub is about not having a chart plotter in the VI. What could it possibly tell you that your eyes wouldn't? Are you really too lazy to follow a compass bearing to Anegada, or check the Cruising Guide to avoid the rocks off of George Dog?

I bareboat skippered and ran my crewed charterboat for years, using only a placemat to show my guests where we were and where we were going.

I guess that I'm now a charter member of the old farts club, but navigating the VI is like Christmas shopping at the mall. Just be patient, cautious, courteous to others, and have a good time. Don't waste your time being attached at the eyeballs to a silly LED screen. You REALLY need to make a special effort to screw up navigating in the VI.

I admit that I'm a fan of my autopilot. But that's because I mostly cruise solo. When I have guests, there's always someone who relishes the idea of steering. (And I take lots of pictures for future reinforcement!)

Be one with your boat and the ocean that surrounds it. Make just a small effort to detach yourself from your stateside crutches. You'll have a much more fulfilling experience.

I have a 2016 L450 coming into Charter next Spring in the BVI... forgive my enthusiasm in posting(!) ... and she will have chart plotters at both the nav station and the helm. I want to ensure those chartering her in the future have all the tools at their disposal when navigating her safely round the islands, however simple the sailing! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Joy.gif" alt="" />

Ahoy Captain, Very good question, and I am not an expert.
I have a Beneteau 393 with a roller furling main which I brief as 'infinitely reef-able'. The main is basically flat, no discernible bias cut, to facilitate reliable furling through the narrow channel in the mast. An effect of this cut is that when main is furled there is a relatively even load on the luff, no bagginess, therefore no catastrophic load on the foot or luff at the furler.
Yes, a flat sail is marginally less efficient, but no choice on mast furling.
FYI, I permanently marked the topping lift and boom vang lines to insure the correct angle of the boom when the main is furled and have never had the sail over-ride and jam for over 3 years.

We have navionics on our ipad , waterproof case, ram moint etc on Reef Song in addition to our garmin. always great to have a back up....when we chartered in Greece in Sept we relied heavily on tne ipad as the electronic chart was in the nav station down below <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

When one considers the value of these chartered boats and the relative inexperience of some of the captains, I would say a chart plotter is indispensable.

A boat owner sending a charter out without this item is just asking for trouble IMO.

A chart plotter is a double edged sword. I think overall their is benefit in the BVI to having them onboard. They are simply one tool in your navigation tool box. Over reliance on the plotter can lead to issues. Cruising guides and charts need to be in use also. Chart plotters are a funny thing. The GPS position will normally be exact. The chart itself that the position is over layed on by the plotter is where problems show up. The entrance to Anegada is a well known example. The main entrance to the North Sound is interesting because depending on which direction you are entering from it will show a different position because it is overlaying different charts depending on where the boat is coming from. One chart is correct the other a ¼ mile off.
G

Couldn't agree with these comments more. Having the Chartplotter, and any other navigation aid like hand held bearing compass, paper charts, helm compass, and most important of all - Mark 1 eyeball - and several of them, all available and put to their proper use is the key to keeping navigation safe. Over dependence on any one can put the vessel in completely unnecessary difficulty! As a new owner, and many time charterer, I hope everyone shares the same view! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again, all. Yes, my surprise was more in line with the comments above from mcevog and 706jim. (BTW, congrats mcevog on your L450!). While most on this board are pretty experienced with the BVI's and have much more sailing experience than the average bear, I think a chartplotter at the helm is important for most who sail in the BVI's - which is the training grounds for many. I would never invest so much in a charter yacht without putting another navigational aid in front of the people who I'm trusting to keep it safe. In ideal conditions and with some basic planning and navigational skills, the skipper should be fine in navigating the BVI's without looking down - where most is line-of-sight and the dangers between the first and next mooring ball are few. But I recall a time or two with dark clouds, ~20 kt winds, and sideways rain that the chartplotter at the helm was helpful in seeing how close to shore I could (should) go before tacking. Even if the map overlay was off from the displayed GPS positioning, I could see how far I could go using the displayed chart and what I could see around me (rounding West End from JVD and needing to tack off Leinster Bay, SJ in the middle of a 15 minute squall). Again, it's simply a good reminder for me (and recommendations to others) to check on the chartplotter details before committing to a charter, if that's important to you. Or to make sure you're prepared with whatever gizmo is best for you and you play around with it before the trip. Again, thanks all!

I can also argue that sending an inexperienced captain on a boat with a chart plotter is an accident waiting to happen.

I have seen boats sail directly into the Colquhoun Reef, the reef off of Marina Cay as well as the reef at White Bay. In all cases, their main navigational input was from the chart plotter.

As GeorgeC1 pointed out, there are numerous areas where what is shown on the chart plotter and reality differ.

I could get all nostalgic about when I first went to the islands, a chart plotter was a set of dividers a pencil and a rule, and some airplane pictures of the islands.

By far the best tool that I have now is an APP called "my radar" on my phone. When I see a little grey on the horizon...that turns black, I can be fully prepared that I have a pretty good idea if it is just a squall, or a dreaded "squatter". You know the ones that just sit there getting bigger...and BIGGER.
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />
I have seen the most idiocy come from people going into a 50kts blower with full sails and untended dingies. Blown sails, flipped dingies, toppled rigs, blown biminis

The more nav options to cross check the better is how I look at it, but local knowledge is priceless! In regards to the airplane pictures, Tony of Mardi Gras sent me a nice book of aerial photo's that included entrances to many anchorages....can't remember the title right now dangit! Tony you out there?? I would recommend this book to a newbie to get a feel for things, even if youre a regular you would like it! Heading to Annapolis/Kent Island for Christmas eve with family, cheers! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Beer Man, Virgin Anchorages was the book with the overheads, awesome book to supplement the Cruising Guide.

A few weeks ago I made a night landfall to Ile de Vache on Haite, no shore lights, no crusing guide, no moon, drizzle, just GPS and depth finder, it was a bit stressful. We had 4 GPS running and all varied our position some.

Yep, that's the name of the book, Virgin Anchorages

Cheers and Merry Christmas

kneafseym... love the story about the depth finder as a nav input. I spent many years in Submarines where the echo sounder was the primary 'close to shore' navigation input when dived! Bottom contour fixing was effective, if a little white knuckle!

Same as Kim: iPad with Navionics is my primary navigation tool with the onboard nav as a 'backup'.

Virgin Anchorages?

Seems like many are concerned about the entrance to Anegada, which you apparently only need a gps that will take you to the outside of the entrance channel. Once there, the channel markers are obvious. I choose to observe the final green buoy, before turning left. I see other catamarans heading directly toward the mooring field, perhaps not a good idea for mono-hulls.

Oh, by the way, Anegada channel buoys are all there (and obvious), as of December 15th.

I find both a GPS/chartplotter and an autopilot to be very useful.

GPS -- As an example, one time we were headed to Scrub Island Marina. We had been to Marina Cay and Trellis Bay multiple times before, so I should have been familiar with the area. But my eye/brain system got fooled, and I was somehow seeing Marina Cay as part of the Scrub Island shore line. So here I am believing my eyes and pointing the boat to the left of Marina Cay, and the GPS is telling me I need to turn to starboard. After puzzling over this I finally recognized Marina Cay for what it was, said "Oh #%*@", and got back on course.

Autopilot -- I love being able to take my hands off the wheel for multiple reasons. I can tack the boat without asking for help, read a chart, or just relax my hands and arms. I never leave the helm station for more than a few seconds, but I do find it helpful when I don't have to hold the wheel continuously.

Dan <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

Thanks <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />...off to the App Store ...I am a notorious "lets reef now "gal as soon as I see the dark clouds ahead...super cautious and drive captain Ward crazy sometimes <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Smart Woman!
G

I'm on the "reef early and much" side, but Doug seems to take a more "reef when the boat gets too tippy & not a moment sooner" approach. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

It can be really hard to get good info about the features on a charter boat. My last trip was on a 2016 model Lagoon 450. I was able to confirm the boat had a chartplotter before leaving for the BVI. It turned out to be a very nice and complete B&G system with all the bells and whistles. It even had a steer by wind mode! However much to my surprise it only had one set of charts loaded into it and they were terrible! They had very few depth makings (despite proper plotter settings). I ended up using the mobile version of OpenCPN on my phone a lot. I've tried a lot of mobile nav apps and OpenCPN is very good. Just be sure to download the free NOAA charts before leaving. I considered loading the NOAA charts from my phone into the B&G system but the mobile phone app did so well that I never did it.