Orient pictures from Bill 9730

First, thanks to everyone who has been posting pictures all along. Much appreciated!!! I decided to start a new thread with these pictures because the other one has over 70 replies, but please feel free to reply to the other thread also if you want. The other thread has some pictures of the wall which don't appear in these pictures.

These pictures were sent to us today, I think were taken on Thursday the 17th. Looks like it's definitely coming along!

One good storm and those have the potential to be history.

or 1 good fire.

SXM??? Wendell

Agreed. Waaaay too close to the water. What are they thinking?

I believe the original buildings were even closer.

Oh my --- It looks to me like the NEW construction and Club O are in big trouble.

Only 1 row of chairs ---- and they are going to have to put Papagayo's on pontoon's pretty soon.


It looks like the beach eroded a great deal between the time they drew up the plans for the new units and actually getting started. Anothers 50 feet and STILTS would have been better than wood frames on slabs.

Hope I'm wrong but that seawall better have some serious pile-driving going on.

As far as Club O is concerned, I think that picture was taken way early in the morning, before the beach was raked, so it looks like less sand than is really there. The webcam seems to show enough room for two rows of chairs, but there just aren't many people there now, so not really a need for two rows. As far as the other restaurants, yes, they do look closer than they were from previous pictures, hopefully more sand will come back in front of them.

I know the sand comes and goes ---- thick and thin but it looks like a lot more thin than thick past few years........

I also know this riles many people, but if it were affordable, I'd be pumping in sand. I've see the boats/equipment all up down east coast of Florida.

In fact for free food & lodging and a long siesta break each day, I'd be glad to be trained and operate it during low season-- any other volunteers?

Mother nature, prove me wrong please!

Oh, there is definitely less sand down toward the Club O end than there used to be, for sure. Not disputing that.

There using particle board to build the buildings..what a joke..should have been steel and cinder blocks instead..will be gone with the 1st storm.. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I just love these armchair construction experts. Lets just wait and see what the finished product is and what goes over the particle boards.

They're using OSB, or oriented strand board, which is actually stronger and more weather-resistant than plywood. Particle board is something else entirely, and is never used on any surface that might be exposed to moisture. I'm confident that there will also be siding over the OSB to further protect it. The structure itself is what will protect it from wind and rains, not necessarily the exterior sheathing.

Amazing how many construction experts we have here. I'm not one either, but I have built (literally) a house in a hurricane zone. It's the way the walls are attached to the foundation, and the nails used to attach the sheathing and shingles, that protect the structure from the hurricane-force winds. OSB is a perfectly acceptable sheathing material in a hurricane zone.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure that the people contracted for this project know what will work in that type of climate condition far more than someone sitting behind a computer screen in the states.

I suspect they'll withstand a lot of heavy winds, I'm more worried about the heavy seas. I guess they'll be equal/better than what they had.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, these buildings are constructed better than the ones they are replacing.Yes, steel and cement would be less destructible, but then the rents would be sky high and they might be sitting there empty.I would like to see the totally finished product before making any judgement and looking forward to doing that soon.

Great pics! Several observations...

The original buildings were a lot closer and likely would have been in big trouble by now.

The new buildings are wood on concrete, the old wood on pilings. At least with the new ones there will be something to start with...

Have never seen or heard of this much erosion at the Papagayo end. Club O really messed up with that sea wall.

If anyone reading this who actually has some construction experience can get a closer look in person it would be interesting to get their take. The structure behind the finished product is what will protect in the case of adverse weather.

I have been part of building a couple of houses and I don't personally like what I see so far. Not my property/building so not my problem.

If anyone is on the island and can give more insight it would be appreciated.

you are correct.....that was my first thought last Friday.....who allowed this design and construction is laughing and walking away with a load of cash knowing that the rebuild will generate yet another cash cow....shame on the Collective for allowing this....are there any building codes on the French Side?....

We were at Kakao yesterday and decided not to bother walking the beach toward Club Orient because it was so washed out in front of that fence. Not knowing the extent of the tides I can't say if the buildings are set back enough. IMO they're not going to be finished any time soon, though.

Have never seen or heard of this much erosion at the Papagayo end. Club O really messed up with that sea wall. [/quote]

I think you need to rephrase...........If Club O didn't build that sea wall, Papagayo would be really messed up --- or gone. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Is the patio on the water sports side of Papagayo ready to go when they reopen. That looked like a great lunch or early dinner spot.

In looking at the construction of these buildings, the contractors are not following basic construction rules. Notice, all the 'headers' above doors and windows are not supported with jack studs. They are simply tacked (nailed) to the king stud. Headers are installed on jack studs to properly support the weight above and transfer the weight to the foundation. In this case, the headers and anything above (roof) is supported by nails only. The headers are also single beams vs doubled beams. .Notice the header above the very wide entrance way, there is no supporting studs holding up that header! That headers job is to support the roof above. Anyone with basic framing experience would not do this. Rules may be different in SXM, but this is very shoddy construction and would never pass any inspections in the US.

The patio was open when we were there in July. Not sure if any construction is happening to it during shut down.

I mentioned to another member of TTOL about the headers as that caught my eye right away. I also thought the corner bracing (what I could see) was suspect.

Ruralcarrier - Good pickup. In my view, it appears they have installed 4x4 posts in all corners and large openings. The walls appear to be fastened to the corner posts. The posts appears to be pressure treated lumber. I'm sure they have their reasons for the combination of pressure treated posts and untreated walls.

Like I stated earlier, "not my property/building so not my problem". This is not so much about the materials being used (OSB versus plywood, etc) as it is about HOW the construction is being done.

"not my property/building so not my problem".
So why are you analyzing and commenting on it? As I said before lets wait and see what the finished product is and how it holds up.

Same reason you are commenting on it and analyzing it.

Once the construction flaws are covered up it may look fine but structurally, what is being shown so far is sub-standard for basic construction principles.

I'm pretty sure they comply with the French building code for SXM and structurally, I find these buildings better built than the houses of cards they're replacing.
The first positive element being that they are erected on a concrete slab vs. piles, and the second being that they seem to be built in clusters, where each unit is attached to another. IIRC, the old ones were standalone buildings, no?
They might not be built like Fort Knox but based on these 2 elements, they should withstand bad weather much better than the previous ones.

Particleboard? I guess with that location it doesn't much matter...

The roofs were nailed that way so that when hurricane winds sweep under them they will fly off and land upside down twenty feet behind the buildings. This will decrease the pressure on the walls and they will survive. After the storm has passed, the roofs can be easily reattached at minimum cost. This way the businesses will be up in no time at all keeping losses to a minimum.

LMAO And they could be 20 ft from the beach on the other side of the island.

It's the new chili dip design. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

No roof, plenty of water and wind.

Please provide documentation.

Scubaman; some of us actually enjoy reading the opinions of others-I myself am not well versed in building construction and I am learning something reading these posts.

http://www.com-saint-martin.fr/Environne...juin%202015.pdf

https://constructionbois.bilp.fr/sites/c...acyclonique.pdf

Thank you.

Didn't you mean "merci"

You're welcome.
A building permit is only granted by the local authorities if the architect designs buildings in compliance with anti-seismic and anti-cyclonic norms.
St Martin is located in zone 5 (high risk) on the cyclonic map, along with Guadeloupe and Martinique.
The buildings are regularly inspected during construction to make sure they comply.
Insurance companies will cover the risks only if the buildings comply.
Last, there are even stricter regulations governing the construction of buildings in immediate proximity of a public beach.

I guess time will tell but I still think some parts of the construction in the pictures looks questionable.

Yep but you know, what I pasted is what the Law says but this doesn't exclude "special arrangements" with the local authorities.
This kind of stuff happens frequently in SXM, you know. <wink>

Happens at home too. It's not just a SXM thing.

SXM would be the last place I would expect any "special arrangements". <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

This thread sounds like a lot of folks that just can't wait to be sitting at one of their old favorites downing a few...

Actually, not in my case. I make it to Orient about every other trip now.

Yep .... at The Perch or Papagayo <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />

These buildings SHOULD have been elevated at least five feet in the air, maybe more. I have built a home on the water and I am ten feet in the air. These building may survive a minor blow, but a real hurricane will leave nothing but the concrete slabs. Building in the air allows the tidal surge to pass under the structure, not beat it to toothpicks. If proper international hurricane standards are followed, raised structures can be built so survive 125 MPH winds. I hope hurricane straps, rafter and joist hangers, and metal roofs with proper fasteners are used on these buildings.

I know it is SXM, but building on a slab along the coast of the US would not be permitted nor could you get insurance. While I can see where the buildings will be stronger than the ones being replaced, they will not survive the rising ocean or a major hurricane.

No need to get crazy building bunkers.....these buildings look pretty disposable and easy rebuilds. The storm that will do the damage will come every once in awhile causing flooding (destroying the OSB) and/or blowing the structure down......by that point it was probably time for a remodel anyway (and perhaps it will be on insurance dime). You could say that its unpredictable when these storms will come and maybe it won't conveniently fit their 'remodel' schedule but that is the gamble they are willing to take. If storms came during the high season then you would probably see iron clad structures in order to not close and keep the revenue coming in but since most storms come in the late summer it gives a nice window to rebuild before the bulk of the tourists start to come again.

They are either currently slow as molasses because there is no need to be fast OR the inspections take forever. Once the foundation was set I don't see why any decent construction crew couldn't erect each of these buildings (skeletal and moisture covered) in two days or less. They are basically garages.

I'm no construction expert, but you are correct about the headers being supported by literally nothing of substance, especially that big wide one... I would think it to be of such an expanse that even the upcoming roof load might bring it down?

More updated photos.





















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Thanks for the pictures!! I'm not sure what I'm looking at--is that curvy thing going to be a sidewalk, in front of the wall or something??

That is the seawall that is being put in designed to halt the erosion from a major storm. It appears it will actually be under the surface bury'd in the sand.

Look at the 5th and 6th pocs posted, it's a curved wall being built - 5'Ft tall maybe?
J&B

Here is a new sign they put up behind the project. According to the sign (bottom right) "Delais 4 mois" I believe this means 4 month schedule. Not sure on the French, but I assume that is what they mean.

It shows the sea wall with the front exposed to the sea which should keep the buildings protected by the surf. They must plan on having loungers above and below that wall as some of the original plans showed. I like the concept.

But the plans show a wall with a much larger curve to it, as opposed to this with the curves very close together??

Meant to add to my earlier post, thanks very much for the picture posting. Makes the wait till Jan 28 almost better!

J&B

Modi - You are correct about that long header above the wide opening. Maybe they will install 'Teco' brackets on the posts for support. Or maybe there is another type of support we can't see. Proper training may not be available in SXM but I'm sure they are doing the best they can.

Yes, they probably are doing the best they can and I'm glad they are doing this. It's going to be a vast improvement over the hodg podg that was there before.

I suspect that the curvature is subject to contractor discretion but the depth is probably specified. What you are seeing is the footer so I suspect that the wall itself is probably block, reinforced and filled with concrete. Not bad but the only reason that Pedro's and the original SSBB are still there is because they were poured concrete. As designed, the depth probably looked good but as of today maybe not so much. Job 1 for a sea wall is not to let the water get under it.

I really preferred the more rustic look of the original structures. They had more of an "island feel." Too bad there wasn't some way that they could've recreated the original structures, using stronger materials. Oh, well. What's done is done, but feeling like I'm "off the beaten path" is what I like about certain beaches on the island. With these new buildings, that feeling is gone on this stretch of Orient.

Your assumption is correct. I'm French and what "delais: 4 mois" means is it'll take 4 months from start to finish. Nothing to do with the project needing 4 more months than planned which is what a delay in English means.

Since they started in June, they will be finished in October then. Huhm....

They may be done with the shell but the build out of the restaurants will take some time. It's more than just some tables and chairs.

Actually, that was kind of what I meant. They seem very far from where they should be, if they are going to be finished in four months.

I agree and I was just commenting on the "delais: 4 mois" mentioned on the billboard. It looks like the main construction and connections to the grid were to be completed in 4 months, allowing interior work to start.