Just got back

Well, I can give you my advice about traveling to SXM, but you probably would be better off reading. Ours was not a vacation, there to survey birds and our property damage...being said some things are open, in our gated community, we generally felt safe, the limiting step will be airplane flights and the airport cannot handle much more...but Tuesday at 2pm there were 21 people on the entire Orient Beach to give you the flavor.

Olaf
https://olafsbigyear.blogspot.com/2017/12/la-vie-pas-facile.html

Olaf,

So sorry for your losses, both tangible and emotional but thank you for your (brutally) honest portrayal of your island experience post-Irma. It is truly appreciated and has served to somewhat assure me we made the right decision in cancelling our November trip and perhaps our March trip as well.

We've loved this island for well over half our lives but I will admit, in honesty, this storm has made us realize as much as we have rued NOT making an island home part of our lives years ago, in reality it was probably the wisest of moves for us.

I hope you are able to get beyond the destruction and remember the many joys the island has afforded you over all your island years. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for sharing your experience and for the pictures! I'm glad your house up on the hill survived.

just stuff....it is what it is. We might see insurance money by March...too much hype, hope, denial, dreaming, and the like from too many here and elsewhere...now the West and mainland France doesn't want to hear about anything....I've traveled quite a bit to Bering Sea islands which are the opposite of touristy, and learnt to just go with the flow...if you get locked out of a building, you just have to find a couple of stray dogs to cuddle....Yea...November...no vacation then so good idea....hard to say about March, the rate limiting factor is the air travel, and if you got a place to stay...and how go with the flow you are....no one who goes should expect it to be anything like it was....night life is tree frogs and curling up behind locked shutters playing cards with a bottle of something

Olaf,
Thanks for your report and photos. I just ordered your bird guide on Amazon.

lol....thx...the few the proud, the owners of that...spent a lot of time on it, and I think it looks good...but....timing??
first thing I did when landed in Msp in September as island being destroyed was to try to put the brakes on that project......literally went to print that morning the hurricane hit,....quite a story....oh well thx again

Olaf,
On facebook, people in SXM act like everything is normal. I do understand their only incomes are tourism, but I wouldn't want to go there now. Maybe in a few years.

I posted this on my blog but....

...and I have respect for that...BUT...they need people there as there is NO commerce basically there now, or dang little.
the rate limiting step is going to be airlines, they cannot handle more than one big plane in at a time, no room, maybe they could get it up to two large bodies, but I hear when KLM comes in twice a week, those days are disasters. Thinking St Baths traffic will dominate the seats for a while...look at Xmas rates to island.. If you are there, it isn't that bad, they have food, wine, etc. More concentrated as stores destroyed, but no shortages. Restaurants are opening slowly BUT who is going to go there?...Some tourists need to get real..as if you are looking for a social, clubbing, debauchery laden vacation, you are in for a disappointment. I also think there is something burning beneath the social fabric of the population and I am only feeling a hint of that. The insurance caps, the government abandonment, the general inertia via Euro rules and regulations, the bad government locally for decades, the well-meaning but demeaning tourists...but at some point, the population will erupt and I do NOT want to be there then as the frustrations will boil over and the tourists will be targeted and hurt.

Sad to read this last post, Olaf, but I understand and I get it. Many who have spoken about wanting to return will say in one sentence they�re prepared for the worst and expect little or nothing�s done, and often in the next sentence they want to know if their favorite boat trip, dining experience or other activity is available yet. Perhaps they�re prepared and the questions are just meant as idle curiosity, or perhaps as well wishes for their Island friends and business concerns. Or not?! So my question is often, are they really ready for the Island as it is right now?

I fully accept that it gets better every day but I remember what it was six months after Luis and personally speaking, I just couldn�t enjoy that again.

And your comments regarding the airport and high season volume has been one of my concerns since it reopened in its present state. And really, your first and last impressions are all too often the ones you never forget, so a bad experience at the airport on either end will not do the Island a lot of long-term good.

As so many others are doing, We�re supporting several charity organizations on the island as best we can, as well as the food voucher program (when it was up and running) but we still to wait until next Fall before we return and spend our tourist dollars.

I sincerely hope things work out for you and some of your losses can be recouped down the road. Good luck. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

yea, I hope it works out, too. It just is now a tourist island that is a non-tourist island right now. To be honest, I kind of liked the empty OB....saw one boat of any stripe in the bay moving all week, harkens back to the olden days....

I'm sorry for the loss of your Chalet. Although not owners, we have been staying at Club O since 1991.

My Father-in-law was a very serious birder and traveled throughout the U.S. as well as internationally on birding trips. He would often make lists of birds we'd likely see for us to use on the trips we would take.

Also just purchased a copy of your book on Amazon.

That is the most succinct expression of what I have been feeling.

There is (was?) a social economics professor who used to post here. He would interview SXM rappers, locals, etc. and then post regarding the very fragile thread you mention.....and that was BEFORE Irma!
I cannot imagine what is happening now.

Olaf, so sorry for your loss, the loss sustained by our sweet friends who live there, all living things and those of us who consider St. Martin our paradise. Heartbreaking... This February would have been our 18th year in a row at Club O. While I haven't posted in years, I check this board more than daily looking for any news, hopefully good, but so far, none...Any discussion among the Club O owners or management regarding a rebuilding time line? Hoping for 2019. From your pics, look like nothing is going on at this time. Thanks again for your post!

I too just returned from one month in Orient
Bay. I disagree about your comment about commerce. While there is precious little on the beach, people are reopening. To give you a few examples in our neighborhood, Cafe Plantation, Rancho Del Sol, Little Italy, Le Petite Bistro, Cote Plages, Al Dente, Villa Rouge, Level 1, etc are open. Bacchus, Gymfit, Hope Market, Samavier, Fanelite L'Express, Love shop and many many others are open for business. Grapewine will open next week. We need toruism. No, it is not the Orient of old. But it is slowly coming back, and it will be better than before.

Totally agree Rastaman. It's coming back, if slowly. Lots of enterprising folks around. Perch Lite and Alamanda Kitchen to be added to your list

Olaf, Thank you for your candid examination of the island. We have plans to return in late April, but are very apprehensive about our plans. We have developed friendships with quite a few people on the island and they all hope we will return and help the economy. But ..... we'll see! We loved our three week stay at Elan two years ago. So glad it survived. The setting up on that hill is fantastic. Or, it used to be according to your photographs. We still have a few months to make our final decision on our return. Time will tell, I guess.

Elaine: There are hundreds of things I omitted. Have you tried to find a parking plce at Ace Hardware? Or maybe at Grand Marche? At both places parking spaces are as scarce as hen's teeth. I waited over a month to get satellite internet. Was it because the product was scarce? No, it was because demand was so high.
Try getting a table without a reservation at Al Dente. try dropping by Papa Dan's pizza and see how long your wait is to pick up your pizza if you did not pre order.
In short, commerce is alive and kicking on the French side. Even Leandra and her son have started to rebuild. I hear Le String is bringing in a container to cook and serve from. It has only been a little over three months. How long did it take N.O. to rebuild after Katrina? We will come back much faster.

La vie pas facile... so true! Our rebuilding materials just shipped yesterday to SXM. Should be there in a couple of weeks. Having rebuilt after Hurricane Luis in 1995 we are seasoned. It will take time but it will once again be a popular tourist destination. Stay Strong and thank you for sharing. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

I have been to SXM twice since Irma and I also disagree with much of what seems to be maybe honest but also sort of a personal bitter "opinion" on how SXM is now because of a loss. I see lots of business going on many as normal, roads are crowded with traffic and their is a lot of hustle bustle all over busy with rebuilding. Simpson Bay is very busy day and night with restaurants, shop, and casino's and more opening by the day. Are you kidding???...SXM is still very much a TOURIST ISLAND! Tourist will and already are coming back with more not coming only because of the lack of hotels not the lack of desire. The flights that are coming in are mostly full full. The weather is about perfect the beaches are still incredible as always and the food and people as great as always too. Stop living and thinking of the SXM of just after the hurricane. Its alive , getting on with business and as safe as pre Irma and will stay that way and they at not roughing it. I see huge opportunity on SXM now unless you just want to look and the rubble and cry and think I remember when. Thank GOD the people of SXM have a positive outlook! IMO but go if you can find a flight or a hotel and see how much of the good things have not changed but better.

Foreversxm, Glad to hear and hope people will go even if SXM may not be perfect yet. The great weather and beaches will help the island overcome.

Absolutely. Shopping for anything is a nightmare. If you can find parking you will wait in long lines. We have driven by GM several times and not gone in due to no parking, after dealing with "high season" traffic to get there. As the OP posted mainly about French side, he is right that it is much quieter and slower to recover (surprisingly to me). But it's coming along. Both governments need to get their act together to move forward. You can't expect folks to wait 3 months for you to decide what the building code will be!!!!!!

I do agree however with the OP's concern about civil unrest in the future. If the governments can't get their act together and provide retraining and support for all these poor folks who are or will be idle, I shudder to think what may happen. Having been thru the days of looting, I know that will been doomsday for this island.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to belittle Olaf's experience. Just that mine is different. It surely must have been horrible for him to come back to a very different St Martin.

For whatever reason, the experience on the French side is very different, I think. Comparing Simpson Bay pre and post Irma, versus Orient Bay, seems to be a microcosm..

True surely. But the area surrounding Orient is coming along. Lots of shops in Hope Estate open, ones I never even knew were there. A few restaurants too!

Hope Estate certainly is a booming area within St. Martin, for whatever reason. I guess to some extent, because there is parking for the businesses there?

People need to stop being so negative and paranoid of our Island. This is our home . We have no where else to go to make a living ; so please people we are not doomed to survive. We have to live . Thanks.

Lesley - Everyone's opinion has to be respected, but I do understand how you feel.

We just got back home (we have 2 feet of snow right now) after 9 days in the �new� SXM paradise. Rented from Kenny�s and stayed at el Zafiro. We were able to spend time with our several SXM friends! We enjoyed every second of our trip. Spread our tourist dollars all over the island. Never felt unsafe. I could repeat what others have stated but I guess we are easy going and we feel so incredibly fortunate to have been able to go so soon after the storm and see with our own eyes. We are planning to return in Feb. We Simply can not wait to go back!!!!

You mention being in a "gated community"...was the gate still being manned?

Unbelievable the sense of morally finding it OK to destroy someone else's property....taking doors, wiring, appliances, roofing. No way that should be acceptable in society.

Thanks Carol.

Hi. Would appreciate your report in a separate thread, where you ate, what you did, your travel experience, etc. Thanks!

Ok....I will work on it. I am NOT good at writing!

Olaf...there are efforts to clean and replant the mangroves.

http://www.lesfruitsdemer.com/helping-hands/

It doesn't have to be elaborate at all, just we ate here, we enjoyed this, we didn't enjoy that, etc..

I have not been to SXM numerous times like many of the posters. I have been there a few times, maybe a half dozen, as cruise ship passenger. We loved the island each time we went there and we had decided to spend a week there. Unfortunately Irma hit the same week we had finally decided to spend a week to celebrate our 39th anniversary. I read this blog daily as it is my intention to go there and hopefully within the next 12 to 18 months. What I am gleaming from the posts is that if you want to go for the myriad of entertainment and eateries, then you might be disappointed but if your intention is to go to a place where you can just "veg" at the beach, enjoy some nice dinners and get back to nature then you won't be disappointed. If we hadn't already booked a trip for April to Jamaica, then I'd be open to a week of relaxation at the beach without too many people around.

Good saying , thanks.

Olaf:
I keep looking for a response to the question about whether there is any discussion between owners or management about a rebuilding timeline, + I am intrigued that there is no mention of the 600' set-back line "requirement" on rebuilding structures. Those 2 issues would seem to be at the top of the list for Club O's future.
Beachlover48 asked about the rebuilding on 12/15, but I do not recall seeing any response. Your comments are so grounded, that I would appreciate any insight that you may want to share. I finally registered, so that I could ask these ?s Paulmoor

The owners of Club O were in disagreement when everything was good (pre Irma). I can only imagine the disagreements in how to proceed in the rebuilding (post Irma) are going...

It would be quite interesting to know what is being deliberated. As ive mentioned before, when we inquired in the last few years on a unit, the individual owners were required to pay for insurance and did not appear to be an individual choice to do so and to decide what level to insure at.

Assuming the entity that was to handle the procurement of insurance did things well and the insurance company fulfills their side, it would seem to me a decent percentage of money should be forthcoming to rebuild structures that existed.

Obviously, the controlling deciders would have to decide what they are allowed to rebuild and if the moneies are sufficient enough to so.

Codes are neat and all especially for structural soundness and electricity.
As for Hurricanes, it would be hard to make Club O Hurricane proof and maybe prohibitively expensive. No one lost their lives at Club O and few on the island as a whole.

Hurricanes are frequent but big ones are not an annual thing, Normally. Therefore, I have no problem with Club O rebuilding exactly as was if the math works out that way and the owners/customers pay the insurance freight via room rates. Folks can always evacuate when storms come as they always have.

Having just surveyed other Caribbean CO resorts, Club O was a bargain compared to HBR, CSS, and other places, some of which want 700/night.

I think as soon as they get some rule clarifications, water/power solutions, and the insurance money, they can get that place largely rebuilt and in operation within a year.

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison. The two resorts you mentioned are all inclusive with drinks and food. They have multiple beaches, restaurants, watersports, etc. included. Club O was unique in what it was and we are struggling to decide when we shall return.

Agreed, very much apples and oranges..

Even when i add all the drink, grand case food, and all the watersports to my Club O orange, it still cost less than the all inclusive apple.

At equal prices, id pick the Club O for Orange everytime.

I think my point was it is easier to fill a less costly vacuum in rebuilding Club O (factoring some price increases), than would it be for them to rebuild a completely large standing hotel structure resort that had suffered the same storm surge. They can also do so in pieces.


It will be back. Some folks may choose to get out of their “investment”. They tell potential owners it needs to be throw away money. So all of thm had their eyes wide open.

Very few will want to turn their back on their “investment in nudism in paradise”. Those than can afford will keep making that”investment” which is good for all the other visitors.

Hey, I think I just made Scubaman’s “timeshare enabling other visitors’” argument.

Just keep making my point if it makes you happy. I really don't care. I enjoy my time share and in 2 years will use it again over and over.

Just curious but Club O is the only place on Island that CO is allowed. Is this by agreement with the Government and, if not, what allows nude bathing on that section of the beach?.

If another company, like Westin or whomever, bought the property and built a new resort would they necessarily also have the same unique exemption that allows CO on the beach?

The answer to that question is "No", if some other hotel bought it, I would doubt very much if clothing optional would still be allowed.

The local law of the collectivitie that generally bans nudity on Saint Martin beaches expressly recognizes that nudity is officially tolerated on the "Club Orient Beach" and exempts from the general ban the beach south of the road next to Pedro's (or where Pedro's was) which runs alongside the wall that borders Club O. So, the exemption in the local law appears based very specifically on the history of Club O. The only place that has had official recognition from the Prefet of the right to have some nudity on a small part of Orient Beach was Coco's - which has had the small "nude beach" by the rocks. There is an agreement of sorts involving nudity on Tintamarre. There are other beaches where nudity has been at least informally tolerated despite the local law, but is no real certainty regarding those.

That's what I thought (assumed)....

And to add to what Snorkeller has told us, don’t forget the operative word - “tolerated” which does not make it a given.

We have a fairly long association with the Island and in thinking back to when we first started coming, we always knew there was a “nude” beach and a nudist club on that beach but back then it was in a remote and generally unfrequented part of the Island and therefore not a problem for the rest of SXM since you really had to look for it. We looked for it our first trip but the roads were terrible back then and the signage was pretty much nonexistent so we never did find it that time, and since it wasn’t the highlight of our trip to SXM we weren’t bothered in missing it.

A few years later we did manage to stumble across what we thought was the most spectacular beach on the entire island. There was nothing and no one there, unless you were counting the occasion cow or goat or the random sea grape edging the sand. It was truly drop dead gorgeous. And as I recall, if you didn’t know Club O was there you could very easily have missed it.

But then the French decided to capitalize on the area to the point it developed into what most visitors of the past few years knew it to be. I feel bad for those who lost their businesses and their livelihoods in subsequent storms but in all honesty, it wouldn’t bother me at all if it remained in its current state.

My only hope is when they start redeveloping OB, and they will for sure, they will force all the framed structures off the sand and move them back from the beach itself, and endorse a type of break-down construction that owners could remove in the light of a major impending storm. Not a popular opinion and just my personal thoughts but this would certainly bring back more of the Caribbean feel that many of us miss to this day and the absence of which is why so many gave up on one of the most beautiful pieces of real estate on St. Martin.

Glad to see that your wonderful home is accepting renters again!