Buying property French vs Dutch

Could someone shed some light on the advantages of buying condo on Dutch side vs the French side? I think you have to pay property tax on French side and possible capital gain if sell condo? Also, any company on the island you would recommend to manage condo and handle rental? Thanks

I know Bob Barron (Of Packlight) does rentals and property mgt. thru his Century 21 Island office.

Read the book A Beach Less Travelled by John Berglund (sp) from Tijon perfumerie some insight in purchasing in st Martin. Interesting.

Can't speak for the French side other than it is more expensive and complicated but it was very easy to purchase a condo on the Dutch side.
Cheers
irina

We bought on the French side in 2005. The transaction was handled by a Notaire and in our case, we shared the same Notarie. All the documents are in French, so you want to consider a translator.

Our condo is like a studio apartment. We have a kitchen and sleeping area. We pay way under $1K in property taxes per year. To us, taxes are a non-issue.

We have friends who own a condo on the Dutch side. Their condo fees monthly are what ours are quarterly. For more info, see:

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/purchase-real-estate/legal

Well, ours was a 2 bedroom, 2 bath on lagoon at SBYC and we paid $2100 per quarter on condo fees. We also used a Notary, both buyer and seller.
Read Don't Stop the Carnival! LOL
Cheers
irina

Irina--did the condo fees include insurance, or did you have to buy your own insurance in addition to that? I would assume so. And did they include water and sewer, which I know are very expensive on island.

We just purchased an ocean front condo on the Dutch Side in 2017. Notary in town handled the transaction. The hardest part was we had this stupid idea of getting a mortgage on island! That was a fiasco but we did it with RBC! Electric runs about 125(average) a month whether I’m there or not. Water is cheap. Under 20 unless a leak!!! We have CHUBB in the states so all our contents are insured with them as a rider to our house policy. We went with them because they offer worldwide liability for the car rentals and something like skymed that is good worldwide. As far as other fees I pay 115 a month to Telem for internet and a landline (which doesn’t work) but the internet is fantastic and we stream no issues. I pay a property manager 150 a month to just over see everything and the housekeeper who keeps it tidy. She’s about 85 a month!!! As for my condo fees, it includes gas for the oven, sewage, garbage, landscaping, bug spraying, all outside maintenance, pool, security and all the other typical stuff. That adds up to 2154 a quarter. And the insurance is 2600 a year split in two payments. Not cheap. We make it down 6-7 times a year. But to just get on a plane with my purse and arrive is so worth it!!! Now. Would I do it again? not sure. It’s stressful. Irma didn’t help. We have been hit with assessments but the property is looking fantastic for a 40 year old property!! And currently we don’t rent it out when not there because that would just add more stress and so far we can pay (barely) the fees!!!!

I don’t mean to be a naysayer here but.......

Anyone thinking of buying on either side of the island should really think long and hard before taking the plunge. The island doesn’t work under the same laws and rules and norms that many are used to and often, things come up that may seem simple until you get right down to the reality of dealing with them and then you can be blown away with the way things are handled. Logistics. Management. Expectations. Security. All these things can be problematic when dealing with them from thousands of miles away. Many can easily cope with situations running amok and if you’re of that ilk then absentee ownership might come easily but if you’re not - OMGoodness.

There was a time when we contemplated buying something on the island but we finally passed on the opportunity. And then again, there have been times we’ve wanted to kick ourselves for having passed.

A very wise friend suggested at the time we should think long and hard about investing off shore and if we decided to do so we shouldn’t invest anything more than we could comfortably afford to lose without causing a financial or emotional hardship. This after he lost a lot of money at the hands of an unscrupulous island developer who took his money along with that of many others and fled the island to take up his practice on another near island.

If you take the plunge I hope you enjoy every moment and never experience any regrets. There’s still that small part of me that wished we’d done it way back when. And then I chat with some friends who did and realize I would never have dealt well with the pitfalls.

kim and pat--thanks for your input on the situation. We thought about it many years ago. Never got far enough to be looking at property. Don't regret it at all.

Summarizing Kim's monthly expenses: Electricity is $125, water is $20, internet is $115, property manager is $150, housekeeper is $85, condo fees are $718, and insurance is $217, for a total of $1,430 per month -- not including the purchase price of the property (or mortgage, if there is a mortgage).

One alternative is to see what kind of apartment you can rent for $1,430 to $2,000 per month.

Friends of ours bought a condo in Simpson Bay 7 years ago and from an investment point of view I know it’s gone up in value a lot even with the hurricanes. Prices aren’t cheap but compared to other beach tourists destinations prices then seem very reasonable. To me if I had the money I’d buy today , I’m sure in a very few years I’d be very happy I did. Only so much of paradise available.

AUC spouse--she said that she does have a mortgage, plus she only goes down a few times a year, and not for a month each time, certainly, so your cost analysis is fairly flawed.

Carol,
My cost analysis isn't flawed, although some readers may be misinterpreting what I wrote. I know she has (or had) a mortgage -- which may or may not be paid off by now -- and I clearly stated that my cost calculation excludes the mortgage. If she only goes down for a few times a year, rather than (for example) 9 months a year, that only would only reduce the advantages of ownership compared to renting (or paying for an AirBnB).

Take the mortgage out of it. But AUC is correct at the average expenses whether we are there or not. We have thought of renting thanksgiving to New Years to pay for the year. Just haven’t done it yet. We probably only average 60-70 nights a year on island. But usually 5 night stays except for New Years and March. So as for an investment - it isn’t.

Kim--that's what I meant--versus renting, since your expenses go on regardless of whether you are there or not, you can't really compare the monthly cost, because you're not there for months on end.

Carol,
I'm not sure I understand. A visitor to St. Maarten could either buy or rent an apartment, and could compare the monthly cost of these two options. In both cases, ownership or rental, if you assume that the rent or annual ownership was continuous, it doesn't matter whether you stay in St. Maarten for 1 night or 365 nights. We're comparing annual costs of these two approaches.

On the other hand, if you choose rental, there are options for seasonal rentals or AirBnB rentals by the month or the week -- and these rental options obviously cost less on an annual basis than owning, assuming one chooses to rent for fewer than 12 months.

We're talking at cross purposes. If you pre-suppose a person is going to go to SXM for a maximum two months out of a year, you could probably find many places that you can rent for maybe $8000 total for that time period. If you buy a place, you can go any time you want for as long as you want, yes, but if you know you can't go for that period of time, or won't do so, if you're talking just FINANCIAL stuff, it may not make sense. That's all I'm saying..

Back in the 90's we too considered a place on the Dutch side. We were talked out of it by our financial advisor. Too much negative to list here. His solution was to buy on St John US Virgin Islands then swap out the property for other islands but we didn't do that either. If I was rich my dream would be to own at Grand Case Beach Club or to buy out BSV HA! Dream on.

The decision to buy here or anywhere else is the same rationale as a boat, RV, or expensive pair of shoes.

If you use it constantly or very often all of the expenses begin to normalize into something rational. If you enjoy every time you use it or stay in it you add the great enjoyment factor.

Same with shoes. A 300 dollar pair is wirth it if you wear 150 days a year for 10 years. Conversely, a 50 pair that dont fit and sits on the shelf is a waste.

On the the other hand if the boat sits on a trailer, or RV in storage, or second home never gets visited it just becomes a great expense with lots of unpleasant surprises like a leaking boat, a leaking roof, a burglary or a hurricane.

So, how many months a year makes it worth owning, Id say at least half.

Not all condo fees are super expensive on the Dutch side. It all depends on the amenities included with the condo. One factor to take into consideration is if the property will appreciate in value or not. Dutch side beats French side on this easily. Language and ease to understand documents is also a factor in my opinion. Furthermore eviction laws are much speedier on the Dutch side than on the French side where if you enter into a long term agreement if you have a problem with your tenants it might take years to evict them. Dutch side basically zero property tax, zero garbage collection tax (not right ). My skewed opinion as I have been living on the Dutch side for 37years and counting......

The OP never mentioned if searching for investment or a home. Night and day.

We own our home here on Dutch side, our only residence for 12 years. Our utilities are about the same as mentioned above, electric probably a bit less as we seldom turn on AC but insurance and internet is half of above figures. We have no mortgage, no taxes.

Biggest problem both sides is government. Just like anywhere else.

You MUST have patience.

Elaine--and that last bit is another big reason why we decided not to buy on island--I am not a particularly patient person.

Yep, you would hate it.

Hahaha. It’s crazy!! Which I am grateful when we bought the manager of the property handled getting electric (which is billed by the association) in our name as well as the water and fiber internet!!! What’s been surprisingly simple is paying for Telem and GEBE. online through my SXM bank account! I was dreading that. What I won’t do is buy a car and deal with that!!!!

We bought a car. It's easy! Never got the GEBE auto pay to work, they kept shutting everything off. Since we're here, easy to go pay in SB.