Liability Insurance - Rental Car

This was being discussed, this is about the only info that I have found and matches what I believe to be true.

https://www.st-maarten.com/index.ph...ntal-cars-on-st-maarten/rental-car-scams

T

interesting about the insurance

and regarding the bogus damage scams, another place unscrupulous rental companies will accuse you of damage is under the front and rear bumpers....like from curbs or parking blocks if you pull up to them too closely...you don't see the damage/scuffs unless you bend down and look under the car...i doubt these ever actually get repaired, so make sure to take VIDEO of these areas, (as well as the rest of the car), when taking possession....and let the agent know you're taking video...otherwise you could be on the hook for the damage caused by others, and that the rental agency may have already been reimbursed several times over by previous customers

Repeating myself from previous thread but have rented from six different companies on SXM and have not had a single issue and certainly no attempts to scam me. I would suggest to use the sponsors on this site to anybody that is wanting to be cautious on who to rent from.

I do decline the liability and my bank cards take care of the rest.
T

Todd, That’s probably the best explanation I’ve seen. As Jazzgal has mentioned Hertz is probably the only company to admit they have liability coverage. The rest require you to opt out.

this is an honest, legit question, which i hope doesn’t ruffle any feathers…i often see people recommend to use a board sponsor if they want to be cautious…why is that?…are sponsors somehow vetted, in addition to i assume providing financial support to the site?

we will be using a site sponsor on our next trip…i learned of them from the sponsors list, although there are very few comments on this board regarding them, and comments about them on other sites are less than perfect…but we’ve used quite a few rental companies in SXM, and have never had a bad experience, so we’re willing to also give this company a try

Good article.

Not sure about all the sponsors on this site but i can speak first hand about Kenny's (Lesley Bruce). We have been renting a car from him for probably over 15 years. He has always giving great customer service.
We have put some dents on our car and have had our vehicles hit and damage our car. Lesley has always worked with us to get all our issues solved. Again he provides great customer service

Well, I can only answer that both Kenny's and AAA are known to be good, used to be some others like Unity that I liked but I don't know anything about the other two listed. The companies like Kenny's and AAA are known people that are very much liked, and they want to keep it that way and it is just in their good nature as well.

so it sounds like just being on the sponsors list in of itself doesn't mean much of anything regarding the company's trustworthiness, as they are not actually vetted or verified to be honest/reliable before being put on the list...one can use the list as a starting point to get company names, but you will still need to research each company to decide for yourself if you feel they are trustworthy....that was my initial assumption, and that's how i personally used it in my search

You just have to use a company you feel comfortable with. Each person has their go to companies. I have mine. Others have theirs. Go with works for you.

IslandBoi--I would invite you check out some other internet sites, in which criticism of any sponsor is swiftly removed and any negative comments regarding the island in general likewise seem to disappear. People are free to make their own decisions about sponsors and about the island itself, without automatic removal of any negative comments.

i never criticized a sponsor...i was just trying to understand why people recommend using a sponsor, when being a sponsor doesn't appear to mean much....as an example, regarding car rental, of the 4 car rental companies on the sponsor list, i believe AAA and Kenny's are truly excellent reputable companies based on the many positive forum comments....but there are hardly any comments or information about the other 2 companies....by no means does it mean they are bad, but there is also nothing or very little to show they are good...so those who advise to "just go with a sponsor" may not be offering the safest advice

and point taken about (most) critical posts not being removed here....but i know for a fact some have been

i'll stop commenting on this topic now

👍👍

I have a much longer fuse than other boards, but if you want this thread to get locked also, keep going.

so it sounds like just being on the sponsors list in of itself doesn't mean much of anything regarding the company's trustworthiness, as they are not actually vetted or verified to be honest/reliable before being put on the list...one can use the list as a starting point to get company names, but you will still need to research each company to decide for yourself if you feel they are trustworthy....that was my initial assumption, and that's how i personally used it in my search

No, I don't think this BB does any sort of vetting. BUT, the fact that so many people here said that Kenny's was so good is what got us to switch. So many TTOLers can't be wrong. And they were not. Kenny's is the best.
We have used AAA and they were good but you have to get in a bus and get to the rental agency. Lesley brings the car to me. and I LOVE that.

I received a quote from Kenny's. It included a charge for liability. Are you able to opt out with Kenny?

Should be included in base price like Hertz and a few others do.

You should double check that.
Credit cards will often cover damage to your rental car vehicle but NOT liability to damage to others.
It depends on your specific credit card, but I have never seen a credit card that will cover liabiliy.
Please read the fine print...

Ed

so to recap...all car rentals in SXM must include liability coverage (ie. damage to OTHER vehicles) even if you refuse to pay extra for it, per the site linked to by Todd in the first post: By law, all cars have liability insurance, so you are being lied to that you have to pay for it.

and some credit cards, like the Chase Sapphire card, will pay for the CDW (ie. damage or theft of YOUR vehicle): https://cardbenefits.chase.com/chase-sapphire-preferred/auto-rental-collision-damage-waiver

glad this is completely settled once and for all /s

IslandBoi, I believe if you buy liability, the deductibles are lower than the included insurance. Back when some of the companies were more open about liability, I was told the deductible was $3000 on the included insurance, but something like $700 for the purchased policy. Also, the coverage limits were higher on the purchased policy. I didn't think the purchase was warranted for us.

Maybe one of the sponser rental company's will chime in and clear up any questions???

That's been done in the past, with ambiguous and less than honest answers. Todd's link gives accurate information, which I and others have confirmed with respected island business persons. Because of possible repercussions from the ones who are taking advantage of uninformed tourists, those persons asked me to not reveal their names, and I will respect that.

GaKaye......can you tell us specifically what your respected island business persons said about rental car liability insurance. Thanks.

I wouldn't want to have to rely on Todd's post in court.

Out of all the sponsors no one is willing to give what should be a simple interpretation of what the current law is?????

X2

Have been on this topic several times in the past .
For our Company that has been in operation since January 1996 , liability insurance is optional @ $ 6.00 per day . Most credit cards will cover the collision but not the liability and our local insurance company doesn't cover the comprehensive insurance (collision) on our rental cars any more .

Always check with your CC company as many have done away with CDW coverage.

My credit card stopped covering CDW for me once I reached 65, so now we rent the car with my wife's credit credit card. Don't know what we'll do when she reaches 65.

One problem in my opinion is that there is no really simple answer to a very broad and vague question such as "Am I covered by third party liability insurance for any risk when driving my rental car on the island when I have refused to purchase the "optional" liability and the rental car company is implying that without purchasing it, I do not have any third party liability insurance covering me when driving my rental car?"

Dutch and French law requires that a rental car have third party liability insurance - the rental car companies MUST have it on their cars, even if the "optional" insurance is not purchased by the renter of the car. Now, does that eliminate any questions? Not for me. I am uncertain about whether there can be exclusions from the required coverage, questions about deductibles, and questions about whether rental car company (or its insurer) can shift liability from insurance on car to driver with contractual language or the facts of a particular situation. The obvious starting point is a careful review of the contract you sign with the rental car company.

If I really cared enough or was curious enough, I probably would engage an island attorney to get me a precise answer to the questions I might have - but I do not care enough to pay for it and neither do I care enough to ask to get an answer for free.

As a practical matter, I do not think it necessary to purchase the optional third party liability insurance, but my wife, whose picture is in the dictionary next to "risk-averse," often likes to buy it even knowing that it may simply be a gift to our favorite rental car guy.

With regard to CDW, just get a credit card that covers the CDW for renting a car on the island. Many of the cards I have had, even some supposedly good cards, have stopped providing it. As of now, I have a IHG card that still provides it, but I will check again before next trip.
.

Kennys, just to clarify, you believe the article linked to in Todd’s post is inaccurate regarding its claim that by law all vehicles in SXM must have LIABILITY coverage ? …so one can choose to decline paying extra for liability coverage, so will then be driving a vehicle with no liability coverage, legally?

Best to just stick to a rental company that is up front with you that the Liability is included in the quote and not as a separate line addition if you are concerned.

Snorkeller--I think my picture is right next to your wife's in the "risk-adverse" dictionary. Let's just say that companies are required to have the insurance, just for argument's sake. And let's just say that, somehow the car rental guy didn't get around to paying his bills this month and the insurance gets cancelled, for whatever reason. What then? Don't know. For St. Maarten, the past couple of trips, my trip insurance had a car insurance rider in the policy. I'd a lot rather trust THAT insurance than one from the car rental guys, if worse came to worse.

Carol - well of course we have the trip insurance, too!

Of course! Hope you all are well.

I do find it interesting that SXM Hertz expressly tells you that the car comes with third party liability insurance with a $400 deductible - and lists some normal exclusions. Would seem a good marketing decision. What would be interesting (not enough to do it, of course) would be to compare the third party insurance that SXM Hertz states you are getting with the third party insurance that other companies have on their cars without saying so. Most of the "optional" I have seen have no deductible in the normal case.

It all really comes down to trust and relationship. You appear to have a great relationship with SXM Hertz and that is what really counts. I have rented with Mike/Unity for years, have gone through a few damage issues with him, and am comfortable dealing with him. At this point, one thing I do not do, is look around trying to save a few dollars. As I think I have said to Mike and Lesley, I often wonder how these guys survive in such a competitive environment with some of the lowest car rental rates anywhere.

We are - hope you and Eric are, too!

the elephant in the room

Snorkeller--yes, we're fine. Just adopted a new pound puppy. Picture is in the general photo gallery.

I honestly don't know with Kenny's, have never rented from him. I am not an attorney, nor an insurance expert and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so my opinion is what it is.

Kenny, not sure about your response and if it is a clear answer. Do you require people to take the liability insurance and if so why would that not be included into the rate quoted? Again, may be, have not rented from you. I would think that since you own the car and if the person(renter) that causes the issue is not insured that you would have some liability if not all of it if they skip town. Is the liability different than the comprehensive that you are listing?

I do like the response that listed something about at worse you are giving $6 a day to your favorite rental person, and while I write this I did throw up just a little bit into my mouth as I state that I would have to give Hertz some credit for stating that it is included in their rate. Scoob, wipe that smile off your face!

This issue us worse than the "adding tip to the bill" debate although I am very comfortable with my stance on that. 127 days until I have to deal with these first world problems, probably going to take a few rum punches to ease my mind.

Cheers,
T

"I would have to give Hertz some credit for stating that it is included in their rate."

Carol, what trip insurance is that?
That will save some of us the worries and the money.

"...... every company has liability insurance on the cars. Some companies require you to take it but you are just reimbursing them even though they don't tell you that.

Hope this helps and an FYI there really is no personal liability lawsuits on SXM (at least on the Dutch side) because it's not a recognized right to sue. "

Thanks for the info. This was my understanding but was never able to confirm.

I would love to know who that insurance company is, if you don't mind saying. I think it is a great addition and would buy from them as well. Having that extra piece of mind is money well spent.

I don't really remember the name of the company we have booked through the past couple of years, but we just go to Insure my Trip here on TTOL and look for comprehensive trip insurance and some of them provide car insurance as part of the quote.

Todd I said what I have stated over and over again.
Noting is free in life .

This issue has come up many times and I have never seen a good answer

Need to separate Collision from liability

Many credit cards will do collision I don't know any will do liability if the accident is your fault for the other vehicle or people in the vehicle

Carol I would check the trip insurance policy your purchasing as most likely only provides collision

As we know two Countries with French law and Dutch law
from what I could find French law mandates 1 million liability on any rental from rental provider
Dutch law i am not sure but may be limited to 50000

Kenny once answered a few years back that there really isn't suits like this in st martin which may coincide with GAKaye's answer
but i do never been able to get a answer on Dutch law
last I have no idea what happens when a Dutch car gets into a accident on French side do they need higher levels of protection as the right to sue seems to be allowed in French law

Then why don't you just quote a price and not show the liability as a separate line cost that is already included?

Right now we are waiting on $ 800.00 from the French side Insurance company after a Tourist rented a car from the Dutch Car Rental Company that hit our Audi Q 3 2021 and that Company has French side insurance .Going over two months . Speaks for itself .

What's that got to do with charging extra for liability?

He had liability insurance and no one can tell me how to operate our business .

I don't know of any insurance policy that covers liability insurance on a rental but would welcome hearing about one; that's why I rent from Hertz even though they aren't as friendly as other companies. I have an annual travel policy with Allianz (AllTrips Prime Plan) that does cover CDW. From the policy:

IMPORTANT: This coverage does not provide bodily injury and property damage liability insurance and does not comply with any financial responsibility law or any other law mandating motor vehicle coverage.

If your rental car is stolen or damaged during the scheduled rental period and while on your trip, we will pay you the lesser of the following, up to the maximum benefit listed for Rental Car Damage and Theft Coverage on your Declarations:

i. The reasonable and customary costs to repair the rental car, including reasonable charges for loss of use imposed by the owner of the rental car while the rental car is being repaired; or 101-P-OR-1000.04-2017 16

ii. The actual cash value of the rental car, less its reasonable salvage value.

The following conditions apply:

a. If the rental car is damaged while being operated, the driver at the time the damage occurs must be listed on the rental car agreement;

b. You must file a report with the rental car company, either within 24 hours of the loss or damage or when you return the rental car (whichever comes first); and

c. If the rental car is stolen, you must promptly notify the police.

You are not covered for any loss that results directly or indirectly from any of the following specific exclusions:

1. Any obligation you assume under any agreement, (e.g. you pay for the car rental agency’s supplemental insurance), except a collision or comprehensive deductible for your primary insurance;

2. Violating the rental car agreement;

3. Leases or rentals for 46 consecutive days or longer; [JAZZGAL comment: this is an added bonus as my credit card covers only 30 days of CDW]

4. Diminution in value of a rental car;

5. Mechanical breakdown or ordinary wear and tear; or

6. Rental cars rented or driven in Jamaica.

IMPORTANT: Please refer to your Declarations to confirm your policy includes this coverage, and if so, the applicable limit.

7 or 8 years ago I was involved in a small accident in the parking lot behind Orient beach and I didn’t pay for liability insurance and it was settled. I and the beer truck driver both thought it was the others fault. It was resolved with no cost to me and my understanding no cost to the truck driver. While the damage was not significant busted mirror and some scratches and scrapes on the trucks bumper. My rental car company which closed after the hurricane, Francine’s said the insurance company’s will handle it.

I'm not suggesting to you how to operate your business. Just wondering why you aren't up front with this liability charge on your rentals.

I think the upshot of this conversation is that each of us needs to do what makes us comfortable. If you choose to pay extra for what is likely not additional coverage, that's your choice. We are comfortable renting from AAA ( a French company, BTW), and not paying extra for liability insurance.

If you actually believe you're getting additional coverage for that additional charge, I'm not sure what to say, as it's been made very clear to me that you're not.

I think this is a question that is not going to be resolved and will end it here.