question for owners of charter boats

We are considering buying a catamaran and putting it in charter. Looking for advice. Our goal is to use it 3 weeks each winter and then cruise the Caribbean in 10 years.

1. What is most popular cat to charter? So far, we are looking at Leopard and Fountaine Pajot.

2. Which charter companies should we consider?

3. Does anyone have facts and figures that they are willing to share via PM like annual revenue & expenses?

Many thanks for helping with our research.

You will get very good advice here..hopefully you'll hear from Mike Beswick who has already done what you plan to do...and much more..with great success..

I think #1 is simply answers by my brother-in-laws favorite statement (he's an auto mechanic). There's an [censored] for every seat I've only used the Leopard Cat's, but have toured a number of others and still prefer the Leopard. I'm sure you'll get a number of replies on this.

But - since the goal is for you to cruise in 10 years, make sure you get a Cat that YOU are happy with.

2. We own in the Moorings and I can recommend them as we've been very happy.

3. PM Sent

Hi TropicalGal,
We have been going through this exact process since January, but our time horizon for cruising is more like 3-5 years. Personally, I feel buying a pre-owned catamaran and chartering it for several years is a good strategy (obviously), but to be successful in chartering it can't be too old. Are you looking at new boats like with Moorings/Sunsail, TMM or Horizon? That's the only way I'd do a 10-year charter life (5 with first company, 5 with second company). That's a loooooong time to have your boat in charter, it will get a lot of wear and tear.

Before making this decision, you need to research the different brands and charter companies. Go to boat shows, look at what they're bringing out. Ask surveyors and maintenance people which brands have more problems. If buying new, do it through a boat show special price, where you'll probably get your best deal. We didn't buy new because I didn't want to take the 45-55% depreciation hit in 5 years. We're buying a 2009 Leopard 46, not too old, should be still good for chartering for several years, and a great boat for cruising as well as chartering.

Most popular cats to charter: Leopard and Lagoon seem to be, but you also have to think about blue-water capability since you plan to cruise. I wouldn't cruise on a Voyage (bridgedeck too low) although they seem popular for chartering. I've only seen them chartered in the BVI.

Lastly, 3 weeks annually is about the minimum personal usage you should do. Personal usage is a key factor in making the economics of charter boat ownership work for you. When we evaluated the new boat program with Sunsail, we had difficulty making it break even unless we used it 4-6 weeks and saved those chartering costs.

Rob

The bigger caveat with Moorings or Sunsail is, it is not your boat until the 5 year contract is up. You will get a boat similar to yours, but not necessarily your boat. Personally i would stick with a second tier company with more flexibility.

Evan, that isn't true. Maybe it was at some point, but it isn't today. You own a specific boat. I find it hard to believe it was anything but this for anyone with a mortgage as the bank would need to have collateral of a specific boat, not just any boat.

Matt, you even told me you could not charter your own boat at one point. yes, you own a specific boat with the name you chose, but you might not get that boat when you charter. True?

Ah.. yes. That can be true, that's not what I thought you meant.

If you book in advanced, they can reserve your boat for you and will do everything possible moving things around to make sure you are on your boat. You'll know when you book if you are going to be on your boat or not. Only change would be if there was a problem with the boat shortly before charter.

In many cases, Sunsail used to "upgrade" the owner to a bigger boat, just so they would see their boat. Evan is sort of correct, you do own the boat, but it isnt always available when you want to charter it.

If cruising horizon is 10 years out, it isn't worth the headache for 3 weeks/year. Spend your 3 weeks on different style of boats each year so you learn what you like and do not like. Just save some cash in a jar and cherry pick the boat you want in 10 years. Right now you can buy former charter boats a whole lot cheaper than they "projected".

I would stay away from FP boats.

We have a FP Orana 44 with Horizon. We wanted an owners version set up to our preferences which we could not do with Moorings or Sunsail. We knew going in that a 3 cabin boat would generate less revenue than the more popular 4 cabin boats however we felt that the lower usage would also reduce wear and tear so it seemed an acceptable trade off for us. We also wanted more flexibility for personal use than what the big companies allowed. We use six weeks a year and pretty much choose our times without restriction and of course we are always on our own boat. We have found Horizon to be very well run and the boat is kept in excellent shape.

thanks for the great advice

Three weeks use a year isn't enough to make owning the boat worthwhile. Also, you won't want to be cruising on a boat that's been in bareboat charter for 10 years. 5-6 years max is all you should expect. If you go to 10 years you'll be looking at new engines, you'll have written off at least two suits of sails, loads of other things will need replacing.

I say charter for now and think again in 5 years. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

We will have the new FB 44 on display at the Annapolis Boat Show.








More pictures here.

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/med...9241&type=1

Jay
CYOA Yacht Charters

When you purchase a charter yacht they usually guarantee you the monthly mortgage payments for the 4 or 5 years they keep it in charter.
After the 4 or 5 years it's your responsibility to finish paying off the 5 or ten years you have left on the mortgage.
If you put it into a secondary charter company they charge you for everything they have to replace on your now 4 year old boat and sometimes you wind up owing charter company.
Now the most logical way to do it would be to purchase a boat that has already been through it's charter contract so as you can find one (there are plenty of after charter boats that they have to get rid of)with the least abuse and negotiate a decent price.

Yes, and make sure you utilize a good surveyor to make sure your emotions do not get the best of you.(lipstick on a pig syndrome!) Look for one who has previously surveyed several of the same type of boat.

Rich, there are only a handful of surveyors in BVI/USVI so your choices a limited. They are not cheap, but would be mandatory for a bank note. Most insurance companies require a survey every 3-4 years.

Not cheap indeed but better to pay their fee up front rather than to get stuck with a poor choice and spend many times the fee fixing the boat after purchase. JMHO. Or just roll the dice!

I tried to say the same thing, but Mike has stated it more clearly and in fewer words! He's been at this game a lot longer and knows what he's talking about. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I worked up financial models in Excel on it. Send me an email and I can send them to you.

Rob

I am dieing to go to the Annapolis show but since my husband has to work the Newport show this week he isn't to keen on it. Those pictures of the FP look great!

I guess we'll continue with our research.
Plan A: Buy a new boat and put it into charter.
Plan A: Buy a boat that is 3-4 years old, charter it for 5 years then re-fit the boat and cruise.
Plan B: Save our money for 10 years then buy a boat and never put it into charter.

Thanks again everyone for your help! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Plan B is what I'm doing. By chartering several different types of boats over the last # of years, we have figured out what we do want and don't want.

That's what we love about Moorings ownership. We can on short notice use any boat in the fleet. We'll be very happy with our boat when it comes out of the program, but if we can afford it, we'll probably look to get a Cat.

That's what we're doing too.

We are also with plan B, she sits high and dry when not in use.

That's why purchasing a charter boat after it's 4 year contract gives you a chance to pick out the best one.
If you owned one in charter that ran into a reef and tore the keel out your stuck with it even though it's repaired.
In the VI's most of the sailboats surveyed are charter boats so the surveyors know the boats pretty well.

Ditto - we've also discussed co-ownership.

anyone in mind? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

I would never consider co-ownership/fractional ownership/putting a boat into charter anymore.

I have heard way too many bad stories about fractional ownership, putting a boat into charter, and chartering from "friends" who turned out not to be so friendly. Amazing what happens when money is involved, and if it's my money, I would rather it be all mine.

I want my own boat so that I know who is doing what to it, when. Me!

The only benefit to co-ownership that I could see is if the goal was simply to charter 3-4 weeks a year every year and either sell the boat at the end or trade in.

Otherwise I think it would get too complicated with one party possibly wanting to own the boat..etc. Although all that could be worked out as well by having a solid contract between all parties that answers all the questions.

I just love the fact that in the past 1.5 years we've used the equivalent of $50k worth of charter time at a fraction of that cost.