BVI airways

And the fun continues

Caribbean Journal

Ok, the traing starts next week. Basically November, seems like that is not enough for everything, but have others here that are a whole lot more knowledgeable then I am.

But are the other issues resolved, like????? everything that was talked about a while ago???

Just asking as I don't remember seeing anything about it, but then my memory is not what it used to be! <img src="http://65.246.19.145/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

The airline will be an unmitigated disaster for everyone involved - you cannot run an airline at a profit doing what they plan to do. Of course, if the government gives them 7 million in equity they can run it until the money runs out - good salaries for a few people for a limited amount of time. someone will get burned in the end.

I agree. It's a little shaky when you have leased one old plane, haven't hired a pilot and are training a few flight attendants and calling yourself an "airline".

I am thinking this will draw "extreme vetting" from the FAA. Operating on a shoestring screams you have to worry about maintenance and pressure put on a pilot to make the takeoff that should be optional because there is no "alternative" flight.
Anyone anxious to fly or put their family aboard this fledgling airline that seems dependent on the BVI government financing?

My guess and I'm often wrong is that it doesn't get started or last more than months and some make out profitably and The BVI loses the millions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDQobB7RT48

Hmm. My choice. I can fly any of several airlines to SJU or STT, and make my way from there, or I can negate those choices and choose MIA, and pray that BVI Airways gets their one plane on one route to EIS off the ground for one of their 3 flights a week.

Think I'll probably pass on BVIA.

Hillside, enjoyed that, thanks.

There just aren't many positives to this airline. No interline agreements, so you will likely pay twice for your luggage. Can't use or earn miles. And you still have to change flights, unless you're from Miami. This will be $7 million down the drain and we, the BVI taxpayers, will be asked to pay the freight.

I'm looking forward to this - coming from Europe and arriving in ANU makes the forward trip to the BVI an arduous one with LIAT, and this flight will hopefully make the trip from Europe better.

"My guess and I'm often wrong is that it doesn't get started or last more than months and some make out profitably and The BVI loses the millions."

While I do not like the strategy here. The subsidy agreement should keep whatever starts flying, flying for some time. The agreement does not simply hand the new operator a single one time bundle of cash. There is start up cash and then cash paying for the ongoing operation for at least the first three years. From there the BVI could keep the subsidy going(many small markets do that), change the subsidy, pick a new partner(s) to subsidize, or walk away. The four engine BAe 146 has a long solid record of flying. There is no reason why the flights should not get off the ground. The planes are expensive to fly per passenger mile but they are quiet. In the short term that should reduce the noise and number of flights into EIS. The only long term sustainable fix is a very visitor friendly ferry service direct for STT plus a runway at EIS that will support the lower cost per passenger mile jets the real airlines are moving towards. EIS needs to change to gain +/- once a day flights with Jet Blue and AA at least. STT is out of space and capacity. STT cannot be the single ingress and egress point. SJU will not be cost or time effective for the 21st century travelers.

STT is not out of space and capacity for more flights. The terminal is too small for the number of flights they have scheduled for the weekends but that is correctable with a terminal expansion.

7 million dollars will not get the first flight off the ground. I assume they have additional investor funding. Just the costs involved for training 30 pilots to man two aircraft will exceed 2 million dollars. Payroll for those pilots if they are paid half the industry standard will be close to 3 million a month. That's before you pay any other employees. You will need those pilots on the property for training 60 to 90 days before the first flight. Once you have crew trained you will be required to fly proving flights by the FAA. To get this airline up and running safely with two airframes I would consider 50 to 60 million in capital a bare minimum.

$7 million would have been a 40% equity in a fleet of 6 modern 100 passenger fast cat ferries. At the current passenger load and fares the outside debt would be paid off and equity paid back to the government in less than 6 years.

If the existing ferry services formed a co-operative:
Would require no operating subsidies.
Would reduce maintenance cost and out of service hours.
Would allow close coordination between companies to insure schedules were strictly maintained.
A revenue scheme which pays a base for each run plus a load factor would end cancellations due to low demand.
A centeralized reservation system would eliminate customer confusion and insure passage on the next available run.
A reliable schedule would increase customer confidence and satisfaction.

Right or wrong? The first phase is one single plane, flying three days a week between MIA and EIS. Three round trips a week on an 86 passenger plane will be +/- 13,000 total passengers a year of the 400,000 BVI visitors per year that travel by air to the BVI. The pilots are already hired. More than $2.4 million of the $7 million is already transferred to Jerry Willoughby and the airline. There is no reason the airline cannot get off the ground and fly for a few years. The plans are actually very realistic. Whether the company will be sustainable past the first aircraft and three years remains to be seen.

Make no mistake. My preference has always been daily subsidized service with one or more of the real players in the industry. Sadly today no US major is flying planes capable of making the route between the Northeast US and EIS.

Watch for the majority of the MIA to EIS passengers to be business travelers with a few parrot heads and pirates packing sunglasses and flip flops.

Your post assumes that those 13,000 passengers are additional visitors to the BVI. The reality is the vast majority would be going to the BVI with or without these flights.
There is also the issue of the performance ability of the aircraft departing from a wet runway. I don't believe they can make MIA in that situation. Hard to find performance graphs to check.
G

One single plane...what happens if it breaks down/can't fly?

There is simply no interest between the leaders on St. Thomas and Tortola towards co-operation; much less a visitor friendly ferry alternative. Certainly a ferry transportation hub at STT run like the ferries in Seattle or Sydney would be a BIG plus for the entire region. A Denmark like zero touch, zero hassle C&I approach for anyone getting off and an airplane would be a major plus. Fly into Copenhagen and the walk from your plane, to baggage claim, to the exit is completely uninterrupted.

So the leaders on Tortola are moving in these directions.

Making the BVI accessible to the rest of the world via large, long-mile aircraft, within the next four years.

While awaiting the runway expansion that will accommodate the larger commercial airlines, BVI Airways, operating a smaller jet that can utilize the current runway, will begin direct flights to Miami.

Fletch Air, a subsidiary of VLM Airlines, will be creating a service to the islands down south for European visitors. Ahhhh maybe scratch that... VLM went bankrupt and shut down in June.

Again the long list of the ferry problems start with the politics on St. Thomas and ends with the family rivalries that are in the ferry and transportation businesses today. Tortola is either not masterful enough to overcome those hurdles or maybe the powers that be simply do not want an economically joined virgin islands region.

Has anyone ever done the math on the number of locals on both islands employed by and around the ferries and boats that go back and forth each day.

The same problem every airline and passenger has. The modern airline industry does not keep spare planes on standby. All the aircraft are booked; all the time. When someone takes AA to St. Lucia or STT. There is no spare AA jet anywhere in the Carribean on standby to handle a hull that suddenly is unavailable. Yes, with one aircraft the risk may look greater depending on the treaties BVI Air can get signed. With three day a week service the bigger issue may be the passengers who miss their flight. That would also be true for any passenger who missed on of the Saturday only flights many of the majors offer to the Carribean.

That is one point the leaders on Tortola have heard over and over from their consultants. The only solution is a runway with at least one major US carrier taking off each day to a mainland hub.

So if my 1:00 Cape Air plane breaks down, there's no other Cape Air plane that they'll stick me on until that one is fixed? Somehow I know that's not true...but it would be on your one plane airline.

It would depend on the Cape Air route and the excess capacity the other Cape Air hulls have and the time availability of pilots and crew. 1,000's of flyers are left all over the globe all the time. If BVI Air can sign the correct treaties you could take your BVI Air ticket to the other carriers. Many airlines like Southwest refuse to sign the proper treaties. Millions continue to naively or arrogantly fly Southwest and the other non compliant airlines. Spend some time in the Jamaica and Cancun airports to watch passengers left high and dry.

The airline industry does maintain spare aircraft at major hubs. They can also repurpose another flight where they have easier options to reroute the passengers. They will equipment swap also from a aircraft leaving later. The issue they are going to have with the RJ85 is a lack of spares and the overall maintenance issues with a older 4 engine aircraft. The constant salt air exposure will not help. We will see how they do.
G

Not a "treatie" - it is an interline agreement.

Correct about SWA, they have never interlined. But the majors are limiting interline as well. DL and AA no longer cooperate.

Not sure now if they leased one or two planes since George mentioned two
.. Unless this "airline" is going to fly other routes..not sure why with one plane they would need 15 pilots or with 2 30 pilots. . If one plane 3 trips a week do they really need 15 pilots for those flights? Seems excessive .

But on the other hand if one plane is accurate..how do you compensate when there is a mechanical problem on an aircraft that nearly all of us have experienced if fly often. Yes..the airline will do what is best for their bottom line before worrying about you..but will Usually make arrangements within hours or next day to get you to destination. If you have one plane ..ain't going to happen.

If they have two planes ,.if successful in booking full flights how will they accomodate one of the planes out of commission?

Problematic at best.

Huh? 3 million a month divided by 30 is 100,000/month. I find it hard to believe that the industry standard is 200,000/month (2.4 mil per year).

Maybe you slipped a decimal place there?

The standard in the US on this type of operation is probably about 150,000 for Captains and 100,000 for copilots. Then you have to add in the benefit package. If they pay much less then that the quality of what they hire would be very suspect. China is snapping up pilots at 200,000 to 350,000 a year with huge benefit packages. The small US feeder airlines that used to pay copilots 20,000 a year are now offering starting pay at 50 to 60K and they still can't fill their classes.
30 pilots is a high number for one airplane three days a week. It's my understanding they plan on adding another aircraft and additional flights. The normal staffing is about 13 pilots per aircraft and a few administrative and line check pilots. They will never survive if they utilize the aircraft only 3 days a week long term.

A typical passenger jet flies 2,000 hours a year or 5-6 hours per day. One round trip EIS to MIA each day would put the BVI Air plane in that range. BVI will be subsidized for at least the first three years. The aged aircraft model chosen is a very low capital cost or operating lease cost option. The subsidy will more than cover the annual aircraft capital cost. With a "free" plane the need for full utilization would be different than a US major with a newer more efficient highly capitalized piece of machinery. The plane operates with a two pilot crew. EIS to MIA is a base and back to base day for a pair of pilots. You could do that with 4 even 3 pilots. To succeed in the short term the largest issue once the planes are flying will be to fly the aircraft full with paying passengers.

I just wonder who is going to take a chance with 1 flight a day? Unless the cost was substantially lower, seems like going via STT or SJU are still a much better more reliable option.

I suspect the majority of passengers on the MIA to EIS flight will be people flying from Tortola to do business in Miami and professionals flying from Miami to do business or provided services in the BVI. Some hospitality travelers will fill the seats between them. The seats on these planes will hold less than 1/4 or 1 percent of the total visitors to the BVI. Until there is direct jet service to the Northeast these flights will be meaningless to the general hospitality traveler.

I would bet that the majority of the travelers will be vacationers, IF, and it's a big IF, the flights are reasonably priced, they will be very popular with people seeking to avoid the ferry.

Actually , the flights have to be competitively priced, VERY competitively priced ( as in highly discounted), against STT or SJU direct flights from current major US airport markets.

Three days a week. One flight out per day. No back up, no interline, no code-share.

No thanks.

I'd agree with Carol - I think its far more likely price conscious vacationers might use it vs business travelers. A Business traveler can't worry about a flight being delayed and having to book on another airline last minute. They'd take the sure thing. While a person on vacation might be more flexible in their time for the right price.

If you have to connect on two airlines there is little chance of consistent savings. If the flights were from BOS, JFK, or Newark they would be filled with vacationers. Operating out of MIA will put a different type of traveler on the planes. If the times are correct maybe you will see some connecting to and from Europe. We are talking +/- 200 seats a week to start. You can easily fill that with working professionals doing business on both ends.

The way I see it, this whole thing is a big expensive ego trip. It appears to be set up as a private airline for locals. How can they possibly market it? With the 3 trips a week schedule it will be impossible to motivate many travelers to forego the flexability and reliability of extablished routes unless there are MAJOR cost savings.

The original plan called for two aircraft and a more robust schedule. Most airlines want 8 to 9 hours per day utilization.
I looked again at the performance numbers. If you can get the best routing possible your looking at 1050 miles. 85 people with 50lbs of luggage is 18,700lbs using 170 lbs per person. The problem is this aircraft can't climb nearly as high as other jets. It's not going to be on top of the summer storms and need lots of deviations. Fuel is going to be very critical every flight.
The other issue is reliability. There were about 380 of these jets built. There are only 70 left flying. There are zero in N America. Parts are going to be hard to come by. Pilots are probably going to have to be sent back and forth to Europe for simulator training. That gets expensive.
I think in the end they would have been better off purchasing new Bombardier CS100's. It's a far more capable aircraft that would have opened up routes to anywhere in the Eastern US. It's also going to cruise at about 120 MPH faster.
The entire project reeks of a shoestring budget. Airlines operating that way rarely succeed.

One aircraft costs less than a $1M the other has a waiting list years long and lists for closer to $70M. Which one do you think the BVI crowd ordered. When the rocks are poured in the sea and runway done(within four years). Maybe Delta will fly a CS100 down each day.

They can fly the CS100 from both ATL and JFK with the existing runway. They are however going to look at many factors before they would enter the market.
Things they would consider is how much traffic do they cannibilize from the STT and SJU markets? Cost of staff and contract maintenance in EIS. Schedule reliability without a instrument approach. Wet runway operations. Passengers airport fees. There are a lot more smaller issues. I don't think in the end they would do it however I am told marketing loves the airframe and already has 18 new city pairs they feel they can fly that currently don't have non stop service.
If they ever actually lengthen the runway the 757 operates just fine from SNA to ATL off a 5700' runway.

It would be amusing ... if it weren't so sad.

Soon Come Airlines

My apologies if this has been posted previously? This does touch very lightly some of the items brought forward in the past by the TTOL aviation experts.



http://bvinews.com/new/bvi-airways-pilot-cites-challenge-promises-safety/

He clearly has great qualifications as a pilot but is a odd choice to be the Chief Pilot for a startup airline. Normally you would hire someone who has extensive experience working with the FAA to certify a new airline. All his experience appears to be military. The flying crosses over without issues however the paperwork and regulatory aspects are completely different from the military. A CP who knows how to navigate the FAA bureaucracy can really speed things up.

Would that be true for a one hull, one US route airline? Is assume, suspect, and guess there must be a consultant inside the blankets somewhere?

One would assume they have brought in someone to fill that roll. Assuming things about the way the BVI government does things is often a mistake. He seems from the article to be the one working the certification aspect and that would be normal for a director of flight ops.
A good sign would be news that they are flying validation flights for the FAA.

Well I dont post often here anymore but here goes -
The technical aspects of the airline are beyond me and probably beyond most of the Ministers in Govt here in the BVI but there is an aspect that they do understand quite well, I think. Simply, with this flight option they will have a little more control of the customer experience than with other airlines. There is a chance however remote that they want to extend "BVI Hospitality" as far as the lounge in Miami, provide immigration inflight, and then walk off through the VIP lounge at Beef Island. Done right, this would be fantastic, and would make alot of people consider this airline differently.

It seems to me if they really cared about the BVI Hospitality (at least to the tourists) that they'd do more to improve the ferry situation.

Agree with what Maytrix says!

Is the plane at EIS or is there more time in the BVI Week?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWJZ0C5r_I

Looking at the registration the aircraft was built in 1996 and is a former Swiss Airways airframe. The Swiss are noted for decent maintenance so it should be in good shape.
G

It is parked on the tarmac at EIS right now.

Just got an email from Scrub promoting the airline.

BVI Airways has completed the purchase and taken delivery of its first jet aircraft for non-stop service between Miami and Beef Island, Tortola in the British Virgin Islands. The AVRO Regional Jet will have a seating capacity of 86, including 12 in Premier Class. The 4-engine plane has a cruising altitude of 31,000 feet and a speed of approximately 500 mph. At that speed, the flight times between Miami and Tortola should be approximately 2.5 hours long.

Updates on the start of ticket sales will be posted on the BVI Airways' website where you can also sign up to receive email updates. We are eagerly looking forward to welcoming this new route that will make traveling to Scrub Island Resort, Spa & Marina faster, easier and more comfortable than ever before.

Service is fully expected to begin in Q1 of 2017.