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Owner's Time

Posted By: Matt W

Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 02:34 PM

Considering an ownership program in the next couple years. For those familiar, what do you do with time that you can't use? Fairly confident we won't be able to use all those weeks initially.

- Where do you market the owner's time? Are you able to consistently fill it up?
- What does it cost to use a broker to handle this for you?
- How much of a discount usually to the regular charter rate?

Thanks!
Posted By: GeorgeC1

Re: Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 02:59 PM

It helps if you tell us what company you will be with. Different companies have different rules on the sale of owners time. Some forbid it completely while others allow a certain number of weeks to be sold. Some allow weeks to be sold only in low season.
As far as marketing the classifieds right here are a excellent tool. I am not aware of anyone using a broker to sell time. I sell my time for a fixed rate. I guess I am cheap as the same people buy my weeks year after year. The norm seems to be about 50% of rack rate for your boat. I am probably about 40%. Will send you a PM.
G
Posted By: Matt W

Re: Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
It helps if you tell us what company you will be with. Different companies have different rules on the sale of owners time. Some forbid it completely while others allow a certain number of weeks to be sold. Some allow weeks to be sold only in low season.
As far as marketing the classifieds right here are a excellent tool. I am not aware of anyone using a broker to sell time. I sell my time for a fixed rate. I guess I am cheap as the same people buy my weeks year after year. The norm seems to be about 50% of rack rate for your boat. I am probably about 40%. Will send you a PM.
G

Appreciate it, George. Still early, just starting to look at the different programs.
Posted By: MIDiver

Re: Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 05:15 PM

Happy to chat with you regarding ownership with TMM but it is not in any fashion similar to Moorings.
Posted By: MattN

Re: Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 06:07 PM

Haven't looked at Owner's Time in a few years, but some people used to post their available time on sailonline.com. I've seen 30-50% discounts on "retail" rates based on the season.
Posted By: Matt W

Re: Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by MIDiver
Happy to chat with you regarding ownership with TMM but it is not in any fashion similar to Moorings.

Appreciate that! I'll dm you.
Posted By: Deepcut

Re: Owner's Time - 06/09/2022 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Matt W

Appreciate it, George. Still early, just starting to look at the different programs.


Look closely and look at the charterer comments on Facebook as well as here.

If you are not planning to use it yourself at least 4 weeks per year, I would suggest not ready to buy yet. Programs usually defrays some of the costs of chartering. Years such as Irma (Very Bad) and Covid year 1 effect on charter ownership (Even worse than Irma) should be considered. 2022-2023 appears to be record breaking for all... Hope for years like this for bookings, but base your pro forma on less, much less. (Year 6, second boat) in TMM fleet.

As MiDiver stated, TMM is much different program than DYC or Moorings. All programs are different and so hard to evaluate. Happy to discuss as well.
Posted By: MrEZgoin

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 01:05 AM

I kind of agree that if you already know you can't use all the time then consider carefully if the program makes sense.

For Moorings at least - as I understand it - you aren't just selling your points... you are still the charterer and it's just your guest that is on board. I'm guessing this works best if you have people you know and trust to charter your boat. I personally don't know any and thus have never been comfortable with the idea.

The distinction may become important when things don't go so well. What if there is major damage to the boat? I'm guessing that Moorings will come to YOU for the deductible and you would have to get yourself re-imbursed by the "guests".
Posted By: Matt W

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Deepcut
Originally Posted by Matt W

Appreciate it, George. Still early, just starting to look at the different programs.


Look closely and look at the charterer comments on Facebook as well as here.

If you are not planning to use it yourself at least 4 weeks per year, I would suggest not ready to buy yet. Programs usually defrays some of the costs of chartering. Years such as Irma (Very Bad) and Covid year 1 effect on charter ownership (Even worse than Irma) should be considered. 2022-2023 appears to be record breaking for all... Hope for years like this for bookings, but base your pro forma on less, much less. (Year 6, second boat) in TMM fleet.

As MiDiver stated, TMM is much different program than DYC or Moorings. All programs are different and so hard to evaluate. Happy to discuss as well.

Appreciate that...sliding into your DMs.
Posted By: Matt W

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by MrEZgoin
I kind of agree that if you already know you can't use all the time then consider carefully if the program makes sense.

For Moorings at least - as I understand it - you aren't just selling your points... you are still the charterer and it's just your guest that is on board. I'm guessing this works best if you have people you know and trust to charter your boat. I personally don't know any and thus have never been comfortable with the idea.

The distinction may become important when things don't go so well. What if there is major damage to the boat? I'm guessing that Moorings will come to YOU for the deductible and you would have to get yourself re-imbursed by the "guests".


Most certainly can't use all of the time, unless I'm interested in a divorce ๐Ÿ˜…. Exploring a program we could grow into since we have little kids.
Posted By: MrEZgoin

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by Matt W
Originally Posted by MrEZgoin
I kind of agree that if you already know you can't use all the time then consider carefully if the program makes sense.

For Moorings at least - as I understand it - you aren't just selling your points... you are still the charterer and it's just your guest that is on board. I'm guessing this works best if you have people you know and trust to charter your boat. I personally don't know any and thus have never been comfortable with the idea.

The distinction may become important when things don't go so well. What if there is major damage to the boat? I'm guessing that Moorings will come to YOU for the deductible and you would have to get yourself re-imbursed by the "guests".


Most certainly can't use all of the time, unless I'm interested in a divorce ๐Ÿ˜…. Exploring a program we could grow into since we have little kids.


Any more conventional revenue sharing program probably gives more flexibility and less "pressure" to use the boat.
Posted By: GeorgeC1

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by MrEZgoin
I kind of agree that if you already know you can't use all the time then consider carefully if the program makes sense.

For Moorings at least - as I understand it - you aren't just selling your points... you are still the charterer and it's just your guest that is on board. I'm guessing this works best if you have people you know and trust to charter your boat. I personally don't know any and thus have never been comfortable with the idea.

The distinction may become important when things don't go so well. What if there is major damage to the boat? I'm guessing that Moorings will come to YOU for the deductible and you would have to get yourself re-imbursed by the "guests".



When you sell time with the Moorings your name is on the contract along with the person actually using the boat. They have the same options regarding insurance ect.. They must have the same qualifications and fill out the same forms as any other charter and have the same insurance options. More than likely they wonโ€™t even be on your boat. Selling owners time and applying it against the note is what makes a leaseback type ownership program work very well financially. A classified add here on TT is a good place to sell time.
Posted By: RatmansWife

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 12:44 PM

Can't speak personally to yacht ownership. I do know that Irma and Covid were hard on yacht and house owners, with uninsured losses from damage and missed revenue. Some charter companies stopped paying out on guaranteed revenue contracts, leaving owners to pay their notes. Search here and you also will find owners who've had to fight with charter companies to get damage caused by others repaired.

For a young family, it may be worth hooking up with a good owner and buying their time.
Posted By: caribbeangirl13

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 03:32 PM

I am a current Moorings owner and was listed as an owner on my brother's boat with Sunsail prior to that. Happy to answer any questions and let you know how to sell time. Just PM me.
Moorings paid every penny of of our guaranteed income during Covid. My brother was paid for his boat through all of Irma/Maria and the boat actually survived the hurricane. All damaged was repaired and the boat was given back to him in good condition. That boat is now in private charter and he is going to sell and buy a Moorings boat. When I sell owners time I make it clear to the charterer that they are responsible for any damage. I encourage them to buy the daily insurance. I sell my time at about 50% or more off charter fee.
Posted By: Deepcut

Re: Owner's Time - 06/10/2022 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by caribbeangirl13
When I sell owners time I make it clear to the charterer that they are responsible for any damage. I encourage them to buy the daily insurance. I sell my time at about 50% or more off charter fee.


Do you have a contract between you and the individual purchasing your time?

What is stated in the contract between you and The Moorings regarding selling your time to third parties?
Posted By: caribbeangirl13

Re: Owner's Time - 06/20/2022 12:59 AM

I don't have a contract with the people I sell my owners' time to. I just book the trip and send them the invoice to show that the trip was purchased. Their name is on the invoice along with my name. The typical contract with Moorings says that owners can sell/give away 2 weeks during low season per year. Sometimes you can negotiate this for more, which is what I did.
Posted By: Deepcut

Re: Owner's Time - 06/20/2022 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by caribbeangirl13
I don't have a contract with the people I sell my owners' time to. I just book the trip and send them the invoice to show that the trip was purchased. Their name is on the invoice along with my name. The typical contract with Moorings says that owners can sell/give away 2 weeks during low season per year. Sometimes you can negotiate this for more, which is what I did.


SO there is no contract between you and whoever buys your time. Does the guest charterer sign anything with Moorings or does Moorings just give them the keys without any signature? What does your ownership contract say about damage responsibility caused by your guest? Is the guest required to pay security insurance?
Posted By: GeorgeC1

Re: Owner's Time - 06/20/2022 12:48 PM

Guest usage with the Moorings is booked as any other charters with the same contracts. Guests can purchase insurance or opt for a 5000.00 credit card deposit the same as owners. Keep in mind that the insurance charter companies sell is not really true insurance. In the case of the Moorings you are buying the deductible down from 5000 to 800 dollars. Other companies are generally the same. Itโ€™s very expensive for what you get and I always opt not to take the insurance. I am many tens of thousands of dollars ahead doing that. Boat damage is the responsibility of the Moorings to repair regardless of how the charter was originated. If the damage is serious owners can opt to have a surveyor involved with the repair but you pay that out of your pocket.
The good part of selling owners time is 100% goes into your pocket. If you sell two weeks a year and put that plus all the monthly lease payments against the note you will be in a excellent financial position at the end of the contract.
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