Crime

I know everywhere has crime, but lately it seems lots of posts on it. Even robberies on the path to Happy bay, my wife and my favorite place. Wonder if the government knows the cost. Sadly after 5 trips we may never return. Back to Aruba again this year our 6th time.

Very sad, indeed. It seems to have worsened the past few years. Nowhere is free of crime but it really seems to be out of control. We stopped staying in Grand Case a few years ago because of the crime and now it seems that Simpson Bay is experiencing a crime wave. I hope the government gets it under control.

I haven't heard of a robbery on the roadway to Happy Bay in a number of years.

Simpson Bay is having a crime wave? where do you get that?

I agree Barbara. One shooting is not a crime wave! It is definitely a sad situation when someone is shot, but a crime wave has a whole other definition.

From what this sounds like it was a hit. I lived right up the street from where Pauly Castellano was rubbed out. Passed just a few minutes after. Grizzly scene but I didn't feel unsafe in NYC all of my life. No one wants to hear about this kind of thing but it's better than a shoot out between crooks and cops!

If you think Aruba is ''safer'' then good luck and enjoy your trip. The shootings today, and lately in SXM have not involved (thank god) tourists, but sounds more gang and drug related. It happens anywhere. I guess if you feel Aruba is safer, you may want to contact the Holloway family and get their take. Their daughter's body was never even recovered. Also, you may want to stay in the comfort of your own home, because I don't think there is anywhere anymore that crime hasn't happened. When you have a million people or so, some living in poverty,and in small areeasthings happen...may it be Saint Maarten, Aruba, New York, Palm Beach, or anywhere!!!!! The murders lately in SXM, are not mass shootings, like the ones we have seen in ridiculous numbers here in the good old USA. Also, thankfully, they haven't involved our kids or our schools. To think that one place is safer than another just is wrong....and it's too bad that St. Martin is getting the press it's been getting. I am just praying that the authorities find these idiots, and give them what they deserve.

Holloway is the only crime I've heard about in Aruba. That's not to say there hasn't been any but nothing much reported.

And I'm sorry Ro, if you didn't frequent this board I doubt that you'd hear about SXM either. It doesn't make news. You only know about it because you follow it.

RonDon, Be sure not to go to the MacDonalds in Dutch Quarter. there was a robbery there. Don't go even though the odds of another one happening at the same place is pretty nil.

SXM is definitely safer than NY

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassa...ound-1.10978539

http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/...de_victims.html

I could go on and on ..

Statistics are clearly not your forte.

Sorry - I should have worded differently. There seem to be reports of more crime lately in Simpson Bay - casino robberies, now a shooting. Perhaps crime hasn't risen and is just more widely reported.

also frequent an Aruba board and have friends living there so that's where I get my info on crime in Aruba and it in no way compares to what I read on this board. When in Aruba we have no fear of walking at night or of taking a bus whereas I'd never do this is SXM.

Woman missing from Baby Beach....they found no body and little evidence....partner/hubby whatever was questioned. He denies involvement. I have heard more crime stories in SXM in recent months than I did when we first started going. So either it is getting posted more or it is happening more. We carry little, are careful and usually tucked in at night! Sadly not everything has happened at night. Just be careful!

Sorry, Baby Beach, as in Aruba??

Sometimes I wonder if the fact that there are two countries on the island makes things worse...sneak in on one side and hide on the other?

My wife has no idea how much time that my head is on a swivel...situational awareness as they call it, and I don't want her to know...

Sometimes people refer to Little Bay as baby beach. Don't know why as beaches have given names for consistency.

And I have frequently heard LeGalleon (sp?) referred to as the 'baby beach' - probably because it is often thought of as a great beach for families with small children. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

So, Laurel needs to define where she's talking about, as I haven't heard of this situation before now.

Nor have I, Carol, but she was in SXM not that long ago so perhaps it was something not published? I don't know either. The only missing woman I've been aware of was the missing California wife from a few years back.....and then there was a young man about a year or so ago but nothing recent along those lines. Perhaps Barbara might see this and may know about it. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

And, I've also heard one of the sections of Cupecoy referred to as 'baby beach".

Same here.

I had responded to a poster who said that Natalie Holloway was the only crime in Aruba. A lady disappeared while snorkeling there from Baby Beach a couple years ago. They never found her but questioned her partner. I think her name was Robyn Gardner?

Totally forgot about that one, and I shouldn't have, as she was from Maryland and my friend in Frederick knew her. Her travel partner was the suspect but now free. Both drunk and quite wreckless.....at the least.

I would have to consider partner crime, or something done to you by someone who knows you (recent cruise ship newlywed incidents or Australian diving?) in a different category than island crime in general, maybe? Though their opportunity to "get ya" is going to be better when you travel, I think that it's your choice of partner that is more questionable and dangerous to you than your choice of travel destination.

You are correct. A quick Google search for "Robyn Gardner Aruba" turned up several stories.

Although I do believe there is a section of Cupecopy that is referred to as "Baby Beach" also.

Laurel,

Thanks for the clarification on the location of Baby Beach as mentioned in the earlier post, and I guess because I'm not a big personal fan of Aruba, the incident you referenced had gotten by me.

Note to self - see what happens when you 'assume' as I did in thinking the reference was to SXM. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

51 weeks of visiting the island spread over 14 years and I have never felt afraid or weary on the island. I take the normal precautions like leaving nothing in the car, etc., but the possibility of a nuisance crime happening is possible anywhere so I would rather focus on the pure joy of my visit. I will be on the island in less than 4 weeks and the thought of crime won't enter my mindset.

When I am on the island my perception is that of the "Friendly Island". I enjoy interacting with both the residents and the other vacationers and about the only people that annoy me are those behind the pastry counter in a French bakery that act like they don't know what I mean when I ask for a chocolate croissant.

Weary should be "wary" in my previous post. Damn auto-correct

I followed that story as it happened. The guy ended up with a $1.5 million life insurance payout from his soon to be wife's accidental death, if the stories were correct.
Anyway, when he was interviewed on tv he came across as a jerk.

This has always seemed like more of a Dutch side issue to me but I admit that I don't generally follow these stories.

Gotaluvit,

With all due respect, I'm laughing reading your comment. You really need to get out and around the island more. The crime on the island is and has always been on BOTH sides of the island as far back as I can remember, and sadly, given my years of visiting, that's farther back than I want to admit to.

The thing is, crime really is not well reported unless it's so big it can't be ignored, and then it's generally sensationalized and theorized with a healthy dose of speculation thrown in too, more often than not. And add to that, back in the days before internet we knew almost nothing about what was going on. Sometimes I think we might have been better off back then.

What's really troubling to me is the amount of serious gun related crimes of late across the island, and it has really grown and is definitely not limited to either side. Those who stay buried in one place may not be as aware, but trust me, it's across the tiny island we love and really isn't limited to one side or the other. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

The key word in that sentence is "tiny" island. When people say it's not as bad as New York or LA that make me smile. Die hard St Maarten lovers are never going to give in on this topic but it has gotten worse and on both sides and I have been going there since 1983. Back in the day we would go out on either side of the island into the wee hours of the mornings and that may have been stupid and we were too stupid to know it but I would never do that now or be out riding around the island in an open jeep at 2 a.m. Even though you can't worry every time walk out your door, in this day and age I am definitely listening more and hearing what is being said.

Pat
Were there any gun related crimes of late on the French side of the island? We are there Nov 1st. Just wondering?

Uhmn, yes, how about the tourist couple that resisted a robbery in Nettle Bay and he was shot? Daily Herald story This concept that crime is worse on one side than the other ignores how small the island is and how often the bad guys go back and forth. 33% increase in burglaries from 2014 to 2015

Jeepers,

While I can't recall all the particulars, yes, there have been gun related crimes on the French side as well as on the Dutch side. There was an article in one of the island papers recently that several people had been arrested for gun related crimes and at least one of them was deported immediately to Guadeloupe. At least there's one off the streets....

It's a very small island with open borders, limited police on both sides of the island, and people can and do move easily between the two countries which is but a small part of the problem, and to date I don't know if they've resolved the issues with regard to perpetrators committing a crime on one side of the island and fleeing to the other and the police departments lending mutual aid and assistance to each other. But some of these same things are exactly why so many of us love and keep returning to the island.

The thing is, we still go and enjoy but we are more aware and we try not to let these things ruin our enjoyment of a place we've loved for almost 43 years of annual trips.

This is a generalization, but most of the crimes that we read about are usually not of a nature that visitors would be effected by, but sadly, they do happen on both sides of the island and on the neighboring islands, too. Today, few places are without crime.

And that said, I still go a couple of times a year but with age I've become far wiser than in the days of those wonderful trips of 'back in the day' and I wouldn't dream of wandering, day and night, into some of the places we used to go. I do keep my car doors locked when out and about at night around the island. I make a point of using valet parking when it's available. I don't wear a lot of jewelry intentionally while on the island. And I can honestly say, in 43 years worth of trips, often visiting multiple trips in a year, the worse thing that has ever happened to us was having our rental car vandalized in a beach parking lot.

Our next trip is late November and with all that's been going on, I'm still looking forward to it and I don't think I'd be any more or less at risk in most of the places I'd like to vacation. Things happen everywhere, but they're the exception and not the rule. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

To all of you that are so worried about the crime, I have an offer for you. Stay home and let me take your rental unit that you have paid for, I will take a copious amount of vacation pictures and forward them on to you and you can imagine your own wonderful vacation moments without the worry of crime. If this sounds good to anyone than please just PM me and we'll make the arrangements.

If you pay my bar tabs I'll even get little gnomes painted in your likeness and include them in the photographs.

This topic flares up every couple of years. Folks get nervous but I'm guessing most don't actually change their plans and they end up having a great time. Just be alert (the world needs more 'lerts').

SXM Justice Minister says crime is NOT up, just more violent. Daily Herald story

We can relax now that the Minister has assured us that crime is not up - the criminals committing the same number of crimes simply are more likely to use violence while committing them - ???

..and the residents are so concerned that they formed a protest and blocked routes to Marigot to make their cause known....

..oops...they are concerned about zoning not crime...my bad <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I own a villa on the island and think much more about violent crime than I used to. It has recently impacted my decision as to how often I visit. I realize crime can happen everywhere, but over the past couple of years, the murder rate on St. Maarten has hovered around 20/100,000. By comparison, the per capita murder rate in Washington, DC (not thought of as one of the US's safest cities) has been 13.9/100,000.

Like it or not, people choosing where to spend their vacation dollars will accept less in terms of perceived or actual crime risk than they will at home. If the island does not do something concrete to address the issue for its residents and its visitors, those with options will likely choose to go elsewhere at some point.

Dane,I agree. I work in NYC and live there part time. Last year there were 328 murders with over 8.5 million full time residents (the lowest number of murders since 1963). That equates to 3.86 per 100,000 people. That is significantly lower than SXM. I feel safe in NYC but not in SXM. I will easily walk the streets of Manhattan after midnight but I would never do that in SXM. I still go to SXM but long ago stopped doing any late night activities. If not for the friendships developed over the years I probably would have found another travel destination in the Caribbean years ago. And it is not only murders that are on the rise - it is all crime. I can leave things in a parked locked car in NYC and expect them to be there when I return - not so in SXM. I truly hope that the governments of the island find a way to curtail the increase in crime. No matter how much people love a travel destination there is a finite amount of risk to their safety people will tolerate. I have almost reached my limit and I have been coming to SXM since 1985 when my family bought property in Cupecoy. Yes, there is crime everywhere bit it has gotten out of control on SXM IMHO.

Susan - very good post. NYC used to be my 2nd home, and I always felt safer there than SXM, which I first visited in 1987.

Here is an interesting look at worldwide murder rates. The US is 4.7 per 100,000. Look at how dangerous (in general) the Caribbean is. Martinique is the lowest at 2.7 and Aruba is 2nd lowest at 3.9.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Wow, Canada is only 1.6. No wonder I feel safe here!

Thank you Pat as you are absolutely correct. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />