What to do with ice - front load fridge

Most of our trips have been on mono's and we've had pretty good luck keeping things cold without having to add much if any ice; I hate running around picking up ice and usually we don't but a few times we had to. We usually are just two so we are able to stock up the first night and except for adding some perishables along the way we do fine. We try to keep the fridge full, avoid opening it frequently, start out with a couple of bags of ice and several frozen/cold items added to the mix. Doing that and cooking the things that tend to spoil easily early on the trip we rarely need to add much ice.

But I have noticed a few times the compressor runs 24/7 and never catches up even on shore power. Actually, it usually never does catch up but several times I have been able to cut the thermostat back enough that the compressor stopped and I knew it was getting close to catching up.

That is a long winded way to ask my actual question. We are going to be on a cat this time. I absolutly hate having to stoop down to see inside of a front opening fridge. Question is, if you have to put ice in there what do you do. It seems like it's easier on a mono because there is usually some space at the bottom to put ice so it is less intrusive. On a front opening one it seems like it just has to go on one of the shelves and take up some space. What do you do?

if the refrigerator needs ice it is not working properly. The only reason we have ice in our fridge is for cocktails.

Evan, he's chartering. Most outfits I've dealt with consider a good working refer as a plus but not important.

The cats we've been on, have a recess below the bottom rack that allow us to put a bag of "beverage ice" at the bottom of the fridge. It's on top of one of the two cold plates and always stays frozen (fridge only has one cold plate).

Haven't had defrosting problems at all, in fact with a generator we run the fridge and freezer at night, but turn it off during the day; or at least while underway. This helps preserve some of the vegetables that wilt/freeze easily.

BeerMe...
We keep a couple of bags of ice in the side by side refridgerator freezers on cats without any problems. I think it actually makes them work less hard! Not really a problem getting down low, only a couple of times a day.

What else are you going to use the feeezer for? Ice cream!?

And if your cat has a genset, no issue of it using juice. The cats designed for charters are speced for this use. We love the R&C cats, maybe not the best long term cruising boats, but great for short term charters.

You need to find a better charter company.

Don't put ice in the fridge it will cause the thermostat to read incorrectly and likely won't work right. If you have a freezer on board then put ice in that.

All of our cats have fridges, and separate freezers, a lot of them also have icemakers.

Jay

I spend more time melting ice. a 1kg bag of ice, for drinks, easily lasts us 10 days. The only time it is an issue is when we fire up the blender.

we defrost every few days with boiling water to make sure the "flow is good"

Good question. We're chartering from TMM - a 2013 cat with a fridge only. They've told us this
"Since the refrigeration system is the biggest draw of DC power, and biggest complaint if not cool enough, we suggest putting a block of ice in the fridge every couple days, keeping the fridge door closed as much as possible, and keeping beverages on ice in a cooler on deck in the shade."

Yeah, CottageGirl that is what I've read or been told by a number of charter companies. We are going to be on a 2009 Lagoon 420 this time. No generator but it does have solar panels to help with the charging. I believe it will only have the side opening fridge although I've never had a charter that didn't have a small freezer section in there too. The cooler is a good idea for drinks and it helps reduce the number of times you need to open the fridge but my experience has been that I have to feed it a couple of bags every two days or so.

I'm surprised no one else finds it a pain accessing the fridge when it's down so low. Maybe once you've got a few more years on the old bones you'll see what I'm saying.

Growing up we had a travel trailer with a propane operated fridge. I was always fascinated that you could get cold from a flame. I still am!

why would putting ice in the fridge make the thermostat read incorrectly..wouldnt it just read colder and thus not have to work as hard to stay as cold?

Often times the ice lays up against the sensing bulb. If the bulb thinks it is 32f/0c, the compressor will never turn on. The other is if the ice is above the sensing element, although not touching, cold air falls.

it is hard to keep the ice ~+6 inches away from the sensing bulb.

Additional tip make sure both the front of the cold plate is free of frost, but MORE important, the back. you are really after allowing airflow around all the surfaces of the cold plate/coils.

Turn off the fridge and douse the plate/coil with hot water...never scrape.

Not sure about your specific fridge but would it be possible to place a golf size "whiffle" ball around the sensor?

Front loading is designed by marketeers and meant for the the naive boat show visitors. Front loading is a poor practical choice for any boat that is meant to be used or moved away from the dock.

Couldn't agree more. Last boat we were on had the best top loading fridge I've ever see. Great design with sliding baskets you could reach and find everything in there.

This statement is truly a doozie, where do you get your info. Have you ever been on a boat over 50'? I have never seen top loading on ;larger more modern yachts. More problematic on a smaller sailing vessel is stuff moving in the stand up fridge. It's not a marketing ploy, but a convenience. I am sure with your train of thought on electric heads are also a marketing ploy <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

What he said, also jam a bag of ice in a modern front load fridge and bend the shelves and you will very likely damage the interior of the fridge.

These work pretty well at the boat show and on charter.



For the record my personal boat has a top loading fridge and I hate it. I would love to have one of the drawer units that are on most of our cats.

Jay

Jay, we have a top loader and a tiny freezer. After a month on the boat, I can reach in and know exactly where everything is stored. Nina set up a neat plastic basket arrangement, one for cold cuts, one for veggies, anyway you get it. We have become very creative and the fridge is always cold. Jaime at Reefco is the bomb.

Jaime is in Hawaii on her boat. I have baskets to and I still hate them. I am getting ready to order a new compressor and evaporator to replace the undersize unit that was put in originally.

Jay

We've chartered two Moorings 3900s with the drawer fridge unit. The first one was brand new and worked well. The second was maybe 4 years old and the freezer wouldn't keep anything frozen despite Moorings recharging the system, replacing the evap fan, repeated defrostings, etc.

The unit has no drain, so meltwater is designed to leak onto the cabin floor. Moorings solution was to give us extra towels. We had 3 weeks and were unable to get them to fix it.

The drawers are also flimsy. A really poor design, and a decided step down from the swinging door front load unit on the older Moorings 4000s.

After our experience I would not want to own a boat so equipped.

if anyone has seen my fridge refit.....

three sections, two top loads and one front load/door. 5 foot plate. with ice maker...

1st section can FREEZE 6 gallons of 30c water in 8 hours. 2nd section can maintain stiffness on frozen food for 3-5 days, third section can store 4 cases of beverages at 10c.

initial fit was pathetic

Kindly post some pictures and specific information as your system sounds great.

If you are willing to sacrifice enough funding and space you can make just about anything work. The standard charter fleet space and investment parameters always come into play here. Low cost, high temp operating environment, high door use levels, wear on seals, needs for functional drainage, low or underpowered, power consumption and much more point to the use of top loading. For charter boats top loading is the right tool for the job of maintaining refrigeration. If you really study it the grossly inefficient front loaders also create great heat while generally falling short of accomplishing their task.

ill take some pictures when I'm down next week.
essentially if you look at the standard Bavaria vision 46 fridge, it has a full front door down the right half and two top hatches. we placed a shelf halfway down, and a wall between the two top doors. we then ran a aluminum plate from the from side, to back side, across the back side.

the only time we use the front door is loading up a few+ cases of beer in the bottom area. the left side door is only for frozen stuff, so we really only open and close the right top door.

around the 1:20-1:40 mark you can see the fridge area...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50S3aWCJTg0

the plate looks like this kit...http://www.jmsonline.net/norcold-ac-dc-icebox-conversion-kit-6cf.htm

Best I have seen on a boat was the propane fridge on a older (single engine) Gemini 105 from Catamaran Company. It stayed super cold. Come to think of it that boat was the most fun to sail as well. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Seperate but related: We ALWAYS bring a cooler (and when I have more than 6 quests I always ask charter company for a second cooler). We keep all ice for cocktails and all our drinks in there (just cycle in new one every two days). yes it melts but in the BVI (all of the islands even Windwards) it is not even a thought (Delieverance). Yes Ik it hurts to pay for ice but I rationalize it relative to the overall cost of the vacation it is pennies. I dont know how to charter wo it? Am I the exception?

Rule #2 for our charter: kids, ice cubes are for alcohol only. If it doesn't have liquor in it, you don't need ice. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
(Rule #1: your dad is the captain. Don't argue with him)

Some of the mixologist will note that ice from the coolers is not really "rock hard" and will melt very rapidly in many alcohol mixtures. The blender crowd many chime in with their own issues with cooler stored ice. The cooler, position in or out of the sun, the amount and age of ice, along with the condition of the ice when it went into the cooler are all a factor. We go through a lot of ice and water and stopped worrying or fretting about it long ago. All the refrigerated consumables go in the coolers and hopefully someone takes ownership and executes as the beer/cooler captain(this person may want to double as or partner with the dinghy captain?. For drinks we hope to have a top loading deep freeze to keep a couple of bags of rock hard ice used for the evening cocktails. Flame me if you must... but, all ice is not equal coming out of the bag.

Going way back to the early CSY and Moorings days the standard plan was to load the top loading freezers with the goods and then dump/fill the all the empty space with ice. Then eat your way to the bottom from the top during the trip.

In any case we always try to have two bags of ice "frozen" somewhere on the boat.

We modify that with... Kids of all ages should not be opening the doors on any of the boats refrigerators or freezers. That space and access is limited to the chef(s).

Mr EZ,

That was some creative solution Moorings came up with to solve the drainage issue. Three weeks of fridge problems would put us in a foul mood. If I was base operator I would have been looking for some creative ways to make you happy.

No windward I certainly don't think you'd be the exception!

Everything is readily available in the BVI so why not use it. We are probably the exception, we tend to enjoy loading up and disappearing.

Perhaps our houseboat trips to Lake Powell in July might offer some good ideas. First thing we do is scout out the different shade spots on the boat and which are most effective at different sun angles. We take as many old bracket towels as we have coolers and dip them every so often in the water and place over the coolers as evaporators. Extends the life of the ice by a factor of two. Requires a bit of fussing, but when it's 106 °, the effort is worth it

We always have 2 coolers on board. Each morning we load up one cooler with the warm beer, soda's, juices, etc. We take the water from the cold cooler and empty that into the cooler we just loaded with warm cans. We generally have a bag or two of ice in the freezer. Add a bag of ice to the cold cooler. As the day goes on and we make room in the cold cooler, we add the "pre-chilled" cans to the cold cooler and add another bag of ice. We keep drink ice in the freezer.

+1 Orange Burst Colleen has got it down! One of the greatest sins is the crew helper who comes along and loads up the cold drink cooler with hot cans of whatever. Cooler management is a skill no less valuable than catching moorings...

To be fair to Moorings, they did make repeated efforts to get the unit working properly, we returned to base mid-cruise and they had their best guy working on it. They also worked on it out of their office at Saba and sent out a chase boat, etc. They really tried to fix it, but were not able to get it to keep anything frozen.

On any charter where we had a refrigeration performance issue. The charter company staff was never able to rectify it. In almost every case we would have been better to move forward without their help/involvement . The efforts were only disruptive with no value or joy in return. The companies have been Moorings and TTM when the refrigeration underperformed. The skills, specific unit knowledge, and parts availability will all come into play if you are having a real issue.

Cooler Management! Great line!

Agree totally with Stormy and OrangeBurst.
Manage well, buy less ice, get better ice for alcohol and blender, and cold beers, soda, wine and water.

We made up a t-shirts for our Lake Powell crew.
"Cooler Management: A Key Issue in Any Recreational Situation"

One of the gals crossed out "Cooler" and replaced it with "Buzz". <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Sick.gif" alt="" />

A term we borrowed from beer competitions, where managing a couple of thousand cold beers to be judged is a very important role: "Cooler Bitch." It's a noun and a verb, also deployed as a gerund. Orange_Burst mentioned part of the protocol we follow. We also pre-chill beers in the refrigerator.

Another challenge with rookies Cooler Bitching, losing the drain plug for the cooler. Champagne corks fit a Yeti cooler nicely.

Cheers, RickG

No question. An integral part of boating safety is having a variety of wooden bungs available for emergencies. Ideally they should range from sea [censored] to cooler size. In a pinch a properly sized bolt and a wad of duct tape is better than nothing.