Large (50'+) Cat Charter Questions

Gang:

After off and on activity over the years, I'm back to this forum with a few questions (I searched but couldn't easily find answers). I've been chartering and sailing in BVIs since the 80s but this new adventure has me with some questions.

I'm looking to organize my largest ever bareboat charter - 3 families totaling 12 (6 adults and 6 kids aged 9-13). Having sailed for decades, we originally considered a few cats with me captaining 1 and leading the flotilla, but I'm now considering an alternative - a single large Cat. That has its positives and negatives I know but I'm now leaning this way (single boat I captain - handling the boat is of no concern, its more about the living/food/provisioning experience). So, my questions:

1. Has anyone ever done this - single large cat with 10+ aboard - in BVIs (I'm favoring BVIs even though its not my favorite place to sail but its the largest fleet and I know it like the back of my hand)?
2. Does anyone have any experience with particular boats in that class - I'm looking at TMM's fleet (Saba and L50) as well as DYC (L52) at this point as most likely options.
3. Is provisioning anything less than a nightmare (we'd be eating most meals aboard - grilling really - with some limited meals in restaurants). Any particular experience on this for a group our size - DYC's Scrub Island location is nice but it would wondering how seamless the provisioning is there via ferry trips.

Any other thoughts I'm happy to hear...

Thanks!

Kevin

No advice..just want to say you are brave man and may need a vacation after this vacation!

I own a boat in TMM's fleet (L42), and would definitely bias my search toward their fleet. They take fabulous care of their boats, and I have seen a few too many stories about DYC for me to take those sort of chances. I have done the provisioning ahead thing to my boat (for 8) a couple of times, and it worked out great (TMM received the order, and it was waiting for me when we arrived on the boat) - and the little Rite Way store next to the marina makes filling in stuff that you forgot to order, or just decided you wanted (cookies, beer, etc.) incredibly easy.

Also, I tend to bring a couple of sleeves of burgers, a bag of chicken breasts and some packages of hot dogs (usually from Costco) frozen in a cooler buried in my luggage - just to have a base of grilling foods. Its convenient, and a lot cheaper, and I know what I have got when I step aboard.

I have never done 10 on a trip, but I have been amazed how well 8 did on my L42. I wouldn't hesitate to do 10+ on a 50!

Have fun!

We've been on the Moorings 5800. If you were on that or a similar boat, I think one boat would be fine. There is plenty of space to spread out and there was a lot of storage for food, although I am sure you'd need to re-provision during the trip. The challenge with that many is the food - I'd see if you can find one willing to handle the majority of it and put together a shopping list. My wife always does it for our trips based on feedback from the group, typically planning out dinners/lunches ahead of time.

I cannot speak directly to your question concerning 50 ft and over cats. We did a trip 3 years ago with 12 on board a L45 with 4 cabins, 4 heads, and two small births in the bows. 8 adults and 4 kids. We are all family so everything worked for us. We chartered from DYC out of Scrub Island and had no problems getting provisions delivered to the boat from Tortola. Also, Scrub's facilities are a great place to do the sleep aboard before starting your trip or at the end of the cruise. We flew into St. Thomas and had a private water taxi take us to the BVI which was well worth the cost vs using the ferry. They took us to the west end and the captain went ashore to clear us in while we all enjoyed cold beverages on board, then they took us directly Scrub Island to board the boat and picked us up at the Scrub Island dock for the return trip back to STT to fly home.

We've done as many as 11 or 12 on a 4-cabin 48' cat. Mix of adults and kids. We usually had 1 or 2 of the kids sleeping on the galley bed (convertible bed/table). Works fine as long as everyone pitches in. Fridge space could be an issue, but if you have a couple cooler boxes for the drinks you should be fine. A desalinization water maker will make your job a little easier and your holding tanks will likely need to be emptied daily....every other day if you are lucky.
Have a great trip.

Second Time Will Tell’s comment. We may be biased as we are also TMM owners - the boats are fabulous and customer service outstanding. Lone Star Lagoon their 50 is a great boat.

Do your due diligence with DYC - a quick read of the BVI Cather Chat on Facebook may give you some insight. Enough said.

Good luck!

We did 12 on a Leopard 514 PC. Same set up as you, 6 adults and 6 kids with age range. It worked out well and was a great trip. I recommend a water maker and extra coolers. We two 110 volt coolers on ours which helped a lot.

I would echo the TMM fleet is well maintained and great staff. Lone Star would likely meet your needs and the kids can have smaller cabins.
We also do dinners centered around grill. Some suggestions Beef Tenderloin (or filet steaks), frozen fish (Same or Costco), Burgers, chickens, spaghetti (prepared at home), pulled pork (vac packed and frozen with sauce applied before packaging which keeps it moist, Shrimp and grits, hotdogs... Check out 24 can Polar Bear cooler. You can get lots of frozen meat in 1 or take 2. (I usually put polar bear cooler into a duffle bag to lessen pilferage in airport--- never been a problem with me). We usually eat out at Anegada and 1-2 other locations.

However, taking 2 boats has many advantages as well (more space). If you go this route, try to pick "sister boats" so features will be similar and performance will also be similar. We have done this with lots of fun as well.

I do it regularly on a 514PC powercat...you have to get people that are boat worthy and helpful. one bad person ruins the whole trip. Trust me. If bareboating you need 2 people designated to help you that you can count on

When I give my captains briefing before we go always repeat Rule #1 This is not an f'n democracy on this boat. Rule #2 everybody does a little so nobody does a lot

I send the boat rules in advance but it works great if ALL the crew listens. I actually prefer 9 college kids over 9 guys on a guys trip...

TMM is a wonderful option. I've also sent you a private message.

I am going to go against the majority and suggest you get a 6 cabin cat. The Moorings no longer bareboats their 5800’s but there are options with Dream Yacht, Voyage and perhaps some of the smaller companies. 12 on a 50 foot plus cat is not crowded. Your costs will be less and everyone can socialize. There will be plenty of room for supplies and other storage. A 52 foot cat has probably twice the living space of a 42 yet people routinely go out with 8 on the smaller cats.
G

Ahoy Captains,

Both the Leopard 45s with The Captains Compass have 4 Queens and 1 fully finished Captains Cabin, and 5 Bathrooms, and an interior Salon with a large dinning table that drops to convert to a Queen, and more space in the fully sheltered stern Lounge. Proper Beds for 9 Adults and room for several Minions.
Check for Summer Specials.

Fair Winds,
Brent from thecaptainscompass.com

Breck, you know that 12 in a dinghy is going to require forethought What's the old saw ?? Take two, they're small.

As far as provisioning, make sure you go heavy on good snacks. 6 kids can be awesome one minute and hangry -fighting the next. Avoid that. Beef Jerky, Slim Jims, fruit leather, cheese sticks, Go-gurt, tasty granola bars. No galley work required, those are grab and go. PBJ's at will.

Restaurants ashore; my opinion is a party of 12 strains most dining rooms in the BVI. Relieve some of that pressure for them and go early. Reserve ahead of time. Don't push the 7 pm "witching hour". In by 5:30 or 6 and out. Another thought is splitting up the group into 2 or 3 smaller parties. Smaller parties are quicker than 1 large group.

Have a great time !

Just got back last night from a 12 day trip with a group of 16 aboard two boats from TMM. One of the boats was a 5 cabin Saona 47 that had two families totaling 10 people. The rest were aboard a L42. We had a fantastic experience, however, the following are my takeaways regarding a group that large:

1) As mentioned above, restaurant logistics are significantly more difficult. We were patient, and knew going in that there would be challenges. Most places really did pretty well with it. That said, as suggested, plan for early dinners, break up the group into smaller tables when possible, and be prepared for LONG wait times for food.

2) Provisioning was actually a success story for us this trip. It was hard to get the order sorted out before placing it online, but once done, Riteway delivered most everything we ordered before we arrived.

3) I have chartered with Dream out of the new Scrub base (June 2021). There are certainly pluses and minuses.....but provisioning wasn't really one of them. Riteway delivered there the same as they do anywhere else on Tortola. I would say make your charter company decision based on the myriad of other things one normally considers when making this selection.

4) It probably goes without saying, but plan on multiple dinghy trips everywhere you go. With 10+, there really is no safe way to make single trips.

I hope to get a trip report out that covers some of the details of our trip. It was another fantastic TMM experience that I hope can be helpful / informative / entertaining for others.

MKGrey:

Awesome help and thanks very much for your particular response. Your thoughts on restaurant options was particularly helpful and just as I would have expected, so thanks for that info! The information on Riteway provisioning was also very helpful and in particular your view that delivery to Scrub shouldn't be fundamentally any different - very helpful, thanks! Here's one question for you, which you might not be able to answer: Had you had 12 aboard a larger boat (say something in the 50 - 54' class), do you think that the meal planning aboard would have been doable/reasonable? I'm trying to get a feel for how you did meals for 10 aboard the FP 47 and whether that might be comparable to 12 on a larger and slightly more spacious boat.

Much thanks!

Kevin

Did the boats performance , being different lengths/ performance affect the trip? I would recommend having "sister" boats so likely sail performance similar and one not leaving the other behind.

Also provisioning for both boats needs to take into account where meals will be eaten. 2 separate orders so that you don't have to reshuffle food/drinks along the way (or at least less). Meals onboard can vary with rotation of couples so group has more interaction, or if kids (teenagers) on board, they may be on one boat for dinner with others(adults) on second boat.

Running multiple short dinghy trips is not too much of a factor as everyone not usually ready at same time.... take some and return.

For dinners ashore, splitting up into 2 groups is generally better for your dining than all together, especially for the staff. Anegada (pre-ordering as their general practice) manages larger groups pretty good. Definitely try to plan reservations 2-3 days in advance should help.

Wes:

I'm definitely not going to go with 2 boats so that's now out of the question - just too difficult to manage, juggle, etc. in our circumstances (3 families/6 adults + 6 kids) - just provisioning 2 separate boats would be a nightmare as we'd like to eat as group, even if in different "sittings" (no charter boat grill is going to be able to handle 12 meals at once...). The only question is can we make it happen - with the right boat - on a single boat. Again, it has its pros/cons but in our situation its the right choice, if we can reasonably manage it. Your and other comments about restaurants is all perfectly on target - the BVIs is one place where that could be very challenging if we don't plan that part correctly...

Thanks for all the comments,

Kevin

BreckSailor:

Meal planning was a bit of a challenge. Part of that was what I was referring to in regards to the original provisioning order, because we had to split the order between two boats and make sure that we had adequate refrigerator capacity, etc. The other part of that was to try to figure out cooking rotations, as Deepcut mentions. Only a couple of times did we attempt to get the whole group of sixteen aboard the FP 47 to eat together. That required cooking some of the items aboard the L42 and dinghying them over along with crew to the FP 47.

To answer your question more directly.....preparing meals aboard for a group of 12+, even on a larger 50' or 52' boat still presents its challenges. We prepped and froze several meals ahead of time before we left home and brought them down in coolers. That certainly helped. It depends on what you make, but stove top space and grill space have their limitations. Lunches (like sandwiches and salads) were no problem at all.

Deepcut, there was a bit of a performance difference to contend with, for sure. I captained the 47, and my brother the 42, so there was already a natural rivalry (all in good fun). We gave the L42 a bit of a head start on the longer legs (North Sound to Anegada, Anegada to Guana). Even still, the 47 closed the gap....and then some. All-in-all, most of the sails were short enough so as to make the performance difference not that big of a deal. In other sailing grounds with longer passages, I could see this being more of an issue. We also had strong winds (20+) the first part of the trip where 2 reefs and crew comfort took precedence to everything else, and made performance difference a bit less noticeable.

As always, the composition of your crew will have more to say about how "doable" or enjoyable the trip will be than anything else. I would not hesitate to do it again with a group that size, if the mix of people was right. In the same breath, however, my guys trip of 3 in early June was a breeze by comparison.

Happy to help with any other questions that you have. Feel free to PM me.

I understand the advantages of all on one vessel. (Boats are all about compromise).

You will have a great time. Looking forward to report after the trip.

Kevin, I have skippered groups on 50+ ft. cats in the BVIs numerous times, and you are correct tp be concerned about the provisioning. Feel free to PM me and we can have a chat. Also, stay away from Owners Time charters with DYC. Just sayin'.

Thx Chip - i'll PM you as I'd like to discuss further.

Kevin

I was just noodling around killing time on a Friday afternoon and saw the Voyage has a 580 as well as a 590 that each sleep 12-14.

The charter boats keep getting bigger and bigger…and the space in the mooring fields tighter and tighter.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/the-voyage-590-best-charter-boat-of-the-year/ar-AAZETBX

Be aware that the max length for National park service balls is 55 feet. With the bigger boats the expectation is you will dinghy to the sites as they generally have a large dinghy.

What Manpot said!