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Carol_HillAdministrator
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I wouldn't fly United myself...
      #1729564 - 04/10/17 12:32 PM (47.192.9.53)

Not until they apologize for this This is unacceptable... I hope he sues them for a million bucks..

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Bobcat
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729567 - 04/10/17 01:31 PM (74.108.103.176)

I would say an apology is the very least to be done here, how about a full FAA investigation?

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bobcat]
      #1729568 - 04/10/17 01:41 PM (47.192.9.53)

Please understand, I think United needs to apologize to the entire plane of people. The fellow who was dragged off the plane, like I said, I hope he gets a million dollars from them. If I were on the jury, I'd give it to him. I do not know who authorized security to remove the man from the plane. Whoever that person was, should be fired. I don't know if the supervisor was the one who authorized it, or someone above them. They had apparently offered $800 a person to pax to get them to get off and no one volunteered. To ME, they just needed to offer more money until they got someone. This is just outrageous behavior. The airline CREATED the situation with overbooking the plane to begin with. Airlines are making extraordinary amounts of money these days, and this situation is just another result of their greed.

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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729596 - 04/10/17 05:35 PM (24.18.33.109)

If they needed to get that crew to a destination for another flight then they should have just ponied up the money and bought tickets from another airline for the crew that wasn't sold up.

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729597 - 04/10/17 05:39 PM (173.46.78.163)

That's assuming that there were seats on another flight on another airline. Regardless, United is totally in the wrong here. So far, their head has only apologized that people had to be re-accommodated on another flight. They need to apologize for a whole lot more than that.

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islandgem
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729601 - 04/10/17 05:59 PM (174.116.44.201)

Apparently there are 7 reasons the airlines can remove someone from a flight. Interesting!

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/7-reasons-why-airlines-bump-175756908.html


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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem]
      #1729602 - 04/10/17 06:03 PM (24.18.33.109)

Another article.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/united-...Fbry?li=BBnb7Kz


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729604 - 04/10/17 06:27 PM (173.46.78.163)

The police statement is full of cr*p..

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem]
      #1729605 - 04/10/17 06:30 PM (173.46.78.163)

I actually learned something from that--you can get CASH, as compared to a travel voucher, which may be difficult to use..

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islandgem
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729608 - 04/10/17 07:24 PM (174.116.44.201)

Yes, some are offered $1000 or more. Name your price.

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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem]
      #1729612 - 04/10/17 07:40 PM (24.18.33.109)

Another article.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/her...Fom8?li=BBnb7Kz


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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729618 - 04/10/17 10:33 PM (24.18.33.109)

Oh my. The CEO sent this out.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies...FXm5?li=BBnb7Kz


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Bobcat
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729626 - 04/11/17 07:28 AM (74.108.103.176)

Quote:

Carol_Hill said:
I actually learned something from that--you can get CASH, as compared to a travel voucher, which may be difficult to use..




Often times they do not have enough cash on hand to pay out more than a small number of passengers - I have seen them run out of funds or so they said. Payment may be made by check if cash funds are not available.

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Bobcat
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729628 - 04/11/17 07:29 AM (74.108.103.176)

Quote:

SXMScubaman said:
Oh my. The CEO sent this out.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies...FXm5?li=BBnb7Kz




This may not "go away" as quickly as the airline top brass hope it will.

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bobcat]
      #1729639 - 04/11/17 08:33 AM (173.46.78.163)

Actually, I was talking about money, versus a voucher for future travel. Unless I knew the airline was preparing to go bankrupt soon, a check would be the same as cash to me..

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729640 - 04/11/17 08:34 AM (173.46.78.163)

What an a$$. I hope this guy sues them and gets TEN million dollars..

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sasasal
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729645 - 04/11/17 08:45 AM (24.102.161.71)

its time for the government to put a stop to this overbooking crap.... This did not have to happen in the first place... No one should be asked or forced to give up there seat... There are actually people that need to get to their destination... They claim this man was fighting them? So would I. Yup hope he sues for lots.. Greedy airlines need to be taught a lesson... They will try to talk themselves out of this... Stop the overbooking and then you will not have to throw someone off a plane... this is sick... Glad I already do not like united, and would not fly them.

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IslandBoi
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: sasasal]
      #1729670 - 04/11/17 12:03 PM (40.134.145.130)

i'm obviously in the minority, but i thought the guy acted like a petulent child throwing a temper tantrum...whether you agree with United's policy or not, the guy should have gotten up when the police arrived, then pursued reparation afterwards...i wouldn't be surprised if we eventually learn he had some sort of mental issue

there are plenty of videos these days of people resisting authority, sometimes with dire consequences...followed by demonstrations and riots

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Bobcat
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi]
      #1729672 - 04/11/17 12:14 PM (74.108.103.176)

You are right of course, the prudent thing to do is to give up the seat but the problem is really how it was handled after the passenger refused to give up his seat - A PR nightmare - dozens of passengers with cell phones and cameras rolling - the airline has only one crew member to transport remaining - I'm sure there will be, as you said, more to follow on this.

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi]
      #1729676 - 04/11/17 12:42 PM (47.192.9.53)

The passenger could have handled it better, but my feeling is that the airline SERIOUSLY screwed up, to let it get to that point. First, the entire situation was created by the airline's GREED in overbooking the flight. Second, the entire situation was created by the airline's screw up in not having the proper crew in place where they needed to be. Third, they never should have let anyone board the plane. Fourth, they needed to offer more money until they got volunteers. Fifth, the airports were FOUR HOURS apart by car. United could have rented a car (and a driver, if need be) to get their employees there in time. As it was, the flight eventually left THREE HOURS late, so if United had just hired a car for their employees, the other passengers would not have been subjected to this awful scene and the other passengers would have gotten what they should have gotten to begin with. And sixth, I really hope the CEO of United gets removed for his attitude toward the flying public, that he obviously doesn't give a rat's a$$ about. "Reaccomodated"??? Really?? United says that the man was not targeted because he is Asian, but apparently the story is going over like a concrete balloon in China, which apparently United does huge business in China. "The Friendly Skies"??? Not so much.

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Kennys
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729677 - 04/11/17 12:46 PM (131.161.86.250)

I totally agree with you Carol.

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IslandBoi
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729682 - 04/11/17 01:16 PM (40.134.145.130)

this will be my last comment on the subject, since i'm not looking to argue with anyone...but it's interesting you bring up race....the ONLY way race would not have been brought up would have been if it was a white male....as long as the person was of ANY other race in the world or a female, race and gender discrimination would have been brought up by someone

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi]
      #1729684 - 04/11/17 01:31 PM (47.192.9.53)

I didn't bring up race on my own. The other passengers on the plane said that the individual claimed that he was targeted because of race. And apparently he is Vietnamese, and not Chinese.

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Bahston
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729686 - 04/11/17 01:39 PM (198.180.162.5)

Being denied boarding due to an oversold condition is one thing, and there are regs to cover how that should be handled, and what is owed in compensation.

Being allowed to board and then asked to deplane because the airline has suddenly discovered that it needs your seat to transport deadheading crew is something else altogether.


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IslandBoi
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729697 - 04/11/17 02:58 PM (40.134.145.130)

doesn't have anything to do with what UA did, but interesting stuff nonetheless

Doctor's History

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Bill_S
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729703 - 04/11/17 03:31 PM (69.250.90.69)

I am totally repulsed by this as well, and I'm a United "Million Miler"!

United was a great airline for most of the 40 yeats I accumulated miles, one flight at a time... The 10 am UA59 "Deli Flight" was my favorite as I flew from IAD to LAX to go to obscure desert test ranges, sometimes with two round trips per week.

When UA and Continental merged a few years ago the United management was fired and the New Jersey Continental executives took charge, and rapidly turned the Friendly Skies into a cash cow to be milked for all it's worth, customers be damned...

I weep for the old United where the customer was king, and not an afterthought.

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Bill


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Bobcat
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729708 - 04/11/17 03:50 PM (74.108.103.176)

DOT guide for airline passengers...
==================
DOT

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pat
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bill_S]
      #1729709 - 04/11/17 03:52 PM (75.133.113.202)

But Bill, isn't that the way of most airlines these days?

UA is not a convenient airline for us so I have no firsthand experience with them, but there are horror stories with almost all the carriers these days.

There was a time when we travelled almost exclusively on AA, though never with the kind of status you have since our travel is purely recreational, but they used to turn themselves inside out to make you happy and in turn, we gave them our loyalty. Not so much since the most recent changes.

JB, loved by so many when it first appeared on the scene, has never received kudos from us though I held out hope at first but our experiences, while not horror stories, have certainly left considerable room for huge improvements.

I have said before and will say again, they're all reasonably decent UNTIL YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM, and the problems do occur with almost all carriers sooner or later..

All that said, the UA situation really was terrible even admitting the effected passenger was not without blame here. But in the end, as so often is the case, it's not the crime (or situation in this case) but it's ALL about how they handle it. And this case, UA cut their own throats in the manner in which this has all played out so far. And I suspect it's going to get a lot worse for them before it gets better.

--------------------
Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."


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BobandJeana
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729716 - 04/11/17 04:54 PM (69.118.76.58)

Carol,
You nailed it on every point. CEO of United needs to resign.

BobandJeana


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Bob_Dot
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: BobandJeana]
      #1729726 - 04/11/17 07:16 PM (24.250.61.63)

The police may want to think about how they handled this. The doctor's shady past is not a part of this story and I think lawyers are drooling over things like failing to read the guy his rights and tell him he was being arrested.

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Bill_S
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: pat]
      #1729728 - 04/11/17 07:24 PM (69.250.90.69)

Hi Pat,

Thanks for your comment.

My thoughts are that way too many airlines are run by bean counters instead of aviators...

Bean counters only care about profits and losses. Aviators care about safely getting their aircraft, themselves, and their passengers from origin to destination safely, comfortably, and enjoyably.

United used to be run by Aviators. Now it is run by bean counters... And we all suffer.

For what it's worth (not much)... I hold an FAA commercial pilot license, ASMEL-I, which has been inactive for a long time since I chose a USAF career in EW and program management (less than perfect eyesight) followed by the defense electronics industry before retiring for good 4 years ago.

Bill



--------------------
Bill

Edited by Bill_S (04/11/17 07:33 PM)


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Kennys
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot]
      #1729736 - 04/11/17 08:29 PM (131.161.86.252)

His shady past does not deserve this kind of treatment.

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot]
      #1729743 - 04/11/17 09:56 PM (173.46.78.163)

Well, he actually wasn't ever arrested, that wasn't what happened. If he had actually been arrested, the situation wouldn't have been so bizarre and awful.

However, as of now, United's stock has lost about 1 BILLION dollars in value.. The stock probably will rebound at least some, but I still predict that the CEO is in big trouble.


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Bahston
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot]
      #1729749 - 04/11/17 10:57 PM (96.233.64.115)

Lawyers are also drooling over the fact that the UA gate agents tried to invoke an oversold situation which didn't exist, didn't execute it properly, and were actually trying to accommodate deadheading crew.

The Chicago Department of Aviation (not the Chicago Police Department) may or may not have been misinformed about the nature of the passenger situation. They became the airline's stormtroopers (a word which I do not use lightly) - impossible to refuse, impossible to resist, and willing to employ brute force.

I don't see this ending well for a lot of people. At the end of the day, changes will be made. A few will profit, a few will hopefully be penalized in some manner, most won't, and there will be unintended consequences.

A few unintended consequences that I see - If overbooking diminishes then fares will rise accordingly. If rules involving deadheading crew changes then that may have an impact on where crew live - for example, I know a Flight Attendant who lives in Florida, but who works out of the Charlotte crew base - not uncommon.

The story, and the resulting impact, will continue to modify over the coming month(s).


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GaKaye
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bahston]
      #1729759 - 04/12/17 06:34 AM (174.194.15.45)

Quote:

Bahston said:
If rules involving deadheading crew changes then that may have an impact on where crew live - for example, I know a Flight Attendant who lives in Florida, but who works out of the Charlotte crew base - not uncommon.






I agree with everything you say in your post. We also have a friend, a pilot for Jet Blue, who lives in Emerald Isle, NC and is based in Boston.


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The_Lurker
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729785 - 04/12/17 09:15 AM (24.46.34.179)

When we were leaving SXM last week, on Delta, we were delayed at least 30 minutes because it was overbooked. (The did make up the time flying.)
The strange part of it is they paid 10 people $700 each to give up their seats, while there were at least that many empty in the comfort seats area when we left!!???
People are always saying to check to see if you can get upgraded, if there are empty seats, yet they held up the whole flight to get people to volunteer to leave.


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: The_Lurker]
      #1729786 - 04/12/17 09:17 AM (47.192.9.53)

OK, now that's weird!!

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729790 - 04/12/17 09:40 AM (47.192.9.53)

The CEO of United was just interviewed this morning, and said he felt "shame" watching the video. Took him a while.. He also said that the passenger was totally NOT at fault. We'll see what happens from here.

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PrairieGirl
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: The_Lurker]
      #1729796 - 04/12/17 10:11 AM (142.165.85.254)

It may have been a weight problem you experienced, not an over sale of passenger seats, or a combination of both. I was already boarded on a flight from SXM to DC when they announced that they were overweight and started trying to get passengers to take comp to get off the plane. They kept trying and no one budged. They next said they would offload "cargo". The "cargo"? You guessed it, luggage. One of my bags included, even though we were FC and supposedly priority. Told in DC that "hmm, that was not SOP". Yeah, if your bags are to be off first when you land, I guess they were the easiest to grab and offload in this situation!

--------------------
LeAnn

[url=https://www.TickerFactory.com/]

[/url]


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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729807 - 04/12/17 11:42 AM (24.209.195.61)

An interesting read below:

A Pilot Wife Perspective

--------------------
J.D.


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GaKaye
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1729815 - 04/12/17 12:19 PM (174.194.30.13)

Very interesting indeed. This was not an overbooking situation at all, and the guy wasn't manhandled until after he ran back onto the plane. At that time he became a security risk.

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: GaKaye]
      #1729818 - 04/12/17 12:25 PM (47.192.9.53)

No, that's not true. #6 in her blog was absolutely incorrect. He was manhandled and drug down the aisle, hitting his head on one of the seats, and was virtually knocked unconscious to begin with. All of that was BEFORE he ran back on the plane, which I don't understand how that could have happened, that he was able to run back onto the plane. But his injuries definitely happened in the first go round.

There were several inaccuracies in her post, including that "must fly" business. The flight that the crew was supposed to man was due to leave the NEXT morning, and United could have gotten the crew there by driving 4 hours. As it was, the plane left three hours late, so driving would have gotten them there at almost the same time.

Edited by Carol_Hill (04/12/17 03:22 PM)


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Bob_Dot
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729825 - 04/12/17 01:11 PM (24.250.61.63)

See where the officer has finally been suspended pending investigation.

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Kennys
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729827 - 04/12/17 01:48 PM (131.161.86.252)

Quote:

Carol_Hill said:
No, that's not true. He was manhandled and drug down the aisle, hitting his head on one of the seats, and was virtually knocked unconscious to begin with. All of that was BEFORE he ran back on the plane, which I don't understand how that could have happened, that he was able to run back onto the plane. But his injuries definitely happened in the first go round.




Correct.


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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot]
      #1729828 - 04/12/17 01:49 PM (24.18.33.109)

Quote:

Bob_Dot said:
See where the officer has finally been suspended pending investigation.



Pretty much standard procedure with an officer involved incident.


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729830 - 04/12/17 02:00 PM (47.192.9.53)

In a death, certainly, that's standard procedure.

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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729834 - 04/12/17 02:45 PM (24.18.33.109)

And so it's started. The passenger has a high powered attorney on this.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/united-...J7GE?li=BBnb7Kz


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Bahston
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1729836 - 04/12/17 03:18 PM (198.180.162.5)

Quote:

ruralcarrier said:
An interesting read below:

A Pilot Wife Perspective




Interesting read indeed. The writer raises some valid points, and is completely wrong on others. I would like to see the DOT reg which is referred to in the post though. Also, there is no mention of bumping for "must ride" in any airline's Contract of Carriage which I've ever read, and I've read many.


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ruralcarrierModerator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: ruralcarrier]
      #1729840 - 04/12/17 04:02 PM (24.209.195.61)

I was not trying to create any more controversy about this, just posting another perspective and information. Some is probably factual and some is probably opinion.

While I do not agree with how things were initially handled and what has been shown in the press....I do wonder if there is more to this story than what any of us know at this time? Ugly situation and probably more information and facts than what has already been released.

--------------------
J.D.


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SXMBND
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi]
      #1729846 - 04/12/17 04:21 PM (75.143.19.148)

Quote:

IslandBoi said:
doesn't have anything to do with what UA did, but interesting stuff nonetheless

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4401980/Dr-dragged-United-swapped-drugs-secret-
gay-sex.html]Doctor's History[/url]





Interesting.........


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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMBND]
      #1729866 - 04/12/17 08:45 PM (24.18.33.109)

Compensation for passengers in the works.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/u...LTDf?li=BBnb7Kz


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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729870 - 04/12/17 09:18 PM (173.46.78.163)

I hadn't thought of that before, but since they're offering money, I have to assume some enterprising lawyer is threatening a class action suit on behalf of the passengers.

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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729874 - 04/12/17 10:24 PM (24.18.33.109)

I wouldn't go as far as to assume that. Refunding the fare is just a good PR way to start.

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Bob_Dot
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729881 - 04/12/17 11:00 PM (24.250.61.63)

Refunding the fare with a clause preventing claims is just good business. Refunding without that is charity or advertising.

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Bahston
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot]
      #1729883 - 04/13/17 12:32 AM (96.233.64.115)

Refunding the fare, if that's what "receiving compensation for the cost of their tickets" means, is a drop of cash. What United will eventually pay out is closer to a hemorrhage.

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sasasal
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729909 - 04/13/17 11:42 AM (24.102.161.71)

His lawyer is on T.V. right now, and his daughter. He is taking questions... My question is!!!! He was getting hurt being pulled off the plane .why did he resist so much and for so long? That does not make this right, but I would like to think, most would have gotten up and left and taken this up with the airline... Sure he had to get home, but he took a beating for it. He has a concussion, two teeth out, and broken nose... Holy cow, what a law suit... but why put up such a dam fight... Hope this helps others with this overbooking problem... Maybe this had to happen...

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Carol_HillAdministrator
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: sasasal]
      #1729911 - 04/13/17 11:57 AM (47.192.9.53)

Did you watch the video?? He initially resisted some, while still in his seat, and after that, he appears to be basically unconscious, while they are dragging him down the aisle.

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sasasal
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill]
      #1729913 - 04/13/17 12:05 PM (24.102.161.71)

Ok. I did not see that... I suppose all of this will be clarified in time... Perhaps he was dazed. I just can not believe anyone would put themselves through that... His lawyer was asked the question, and he just said!!! He wanted to go home.. The airline will pay dearly for this, and as people that fly, perhaps this will change how they treat passengers... this should never happen again...

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SXMScubaman
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: sasasal]
      #1729919 - 04/13/17 12:48 PM (24.18.33.109)

There is also a video of the conversation that took place before he was taken out of his seat. He had ample opportunity to comply but resisted and said he would rather go to jail than give up his seat. Officers asked again and he got confrontational and then the physical confrontation happened.
He was already on the phone and was talking about suing before taken out of his seat.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-vid...MpPR?li=BBnb7Kz

Edited by SXMScubaman (04/13/17 12:51 PM)


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sasasal
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman]
      #1729921 - 04/13/17 01:45 PM (24.102.161.71)

Well, He certainly may be unhinged, but for the record!!! He will win either way. They could have realized what they were dealing with and moved on. Instead of the fiasco the happened pulling him off... I believe he was wrong in resisting, but they were wrong in there approach... Big lawsuit will be in the works, and because of his injurys, he will win... The airlines should never ever do this to any passenger no matter what there mental state... This will serve as a lesson to united and other airlines.... Very sad...

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RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem]
      #1730761 - 04/22/17 02:47 PM (199.96.179.137)

I liked Continental when it existed. As United it has gone to the bottom of the list in all ways.

--------------------
Rick and Grace


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