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I wouldn't fly United myself... #126925
04/10/2017 11:32 AM
04/10/2017 11:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Not until they apologize for this This is unacceptable... I hope he sues them for a million bucks..


Carol Hill
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126926
04/10/2017 12:31 PM
04/10/2017 12:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
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I would say an apology is the very least to be done here, how about a full FAA investigation?


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bobcat] #126927
04/10/2017 12:41 PM
04/10/2017 12:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
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Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Please understand, I think United needs to apologize to the entire plane of people. The fellow who was dragged off the plane, like I said, I hope he gets a million dollars from them. If I were on the jury, I'd give it to him. I do not know who authorized security to remove the man from the plane. Whoever that person was, should be fired. I don't know if the supervisor was the one who authorized it, or someone above them. They had apparently offered $800 a person to pax to get them to get off and no one volunteered. To ME, they just needed to offer more money until they got someone. This is just outrageous behavior. The airline CREATED the situation with overbooking the plane to begin with. Airlines are making extraordinary amounts of money these days, and this situation is just another result of their greed.


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126928
04/10/2017 04:35 PM
04/10/2017 04:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,521
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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If they needed to get that crew to a destination for another flight then they should have just ponied up the money and bought tickets from another airline for the crew that wasn't sold up.

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman] #126929
04/10/2017 04:39 PM
04/10/2017 04:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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That's assuming that there were seats on another flight on another airline. Regardless, United is totally in the wrong here. So far, their head has only apologized that people had to be re-accommodated on another flight. They need to apologize for a whole lot more than that.


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126930
04/10/2017 04:59 PM
04/10/2017 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,564
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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Apparently there are 7 reasons the airlines can remove someone from a flight. Interesting!

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/7-reasons-why-airlines-bump-175756908.html


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem] #126931
04/10/2017 05:03 PM
04/10/2017 05:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,521
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman] #126932
04/10/2017 05:27 PM
04/10/2017 05:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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The police statement is full of cr*p..


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem] #126933
04/10/2017 05:30 PM
04/10/2017 05:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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I actually learned something from that--you can get CASH, as compared to a travel voucher, which may be difficult to use..


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126934
04/10/2017 06:24 PM
04/10/2017 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,564
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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Yes, some are offered $1000 or more. Name your price.


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: islandgem] #126935
04/10/2017 06:40 PM
04/10/2017 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,521
Auburn, WA
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman] #126936
04/10/2017 09:33 PM
04/10/2017 09:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,521
Auburn, WA
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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126937
04/11/2017 06:28 AM
04/11/2017 06:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
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Quote
Carol_Hill said:
I actually learned something from that--you can get CASH, as compared to a travel voucher, which may be difficult to use..


Often times they do not have enough cash on hand to pay out more than a small number of passengers - I have seen them run out of funds or so they said. Payment may be made by check if cash funds are not available.


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman] #126938
04/11/2017 06:29 AM
04/11/2017 06:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
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Quote
SXMScubaman said:
Oh my. The CEO sent this out.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies...FXm5?li=BBnb7Kz


This may not "go away" as quickly as the airline top brass hope it will.


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bobcat] #126939
04/11/2017 07:33 AM
04/11/2017 07:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Actually, I was talking about money, versus a voucher for future travel. Unless I knew the airline was preparing to go bankrupt soon, a check would be the same as cash to me..


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: SXMScubaman] #126940
04/11/2017 07:34 AM
04/11/2017 07:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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What an a$$. I hope this guy sues them and gets TEN million dollars..


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126941
04/11/2017 07:45 AM
04/11/2017 07:45 AM
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sasasal Offline
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its time for the government to put a stop to this overbooking crap.... This did not have to happen in the first place... No one should be asked or forced to give up there seat... There are actually people that need to get to their destination... They claim this man was fighting them? So would I. Yup hope he sues for lots.. Greedy airlines need to be taught a lesson... They will try to talk themselves out of this... Stop the overbooking and then you will not have to throw someone off a plane... this is sick... Glad I already do not like united, and would not fly them.

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: sasasal] #126942
04/11/2017 11:03 AM
04/11/2017 11:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 269
Sugar Land, Tx
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IslandBoi Offline
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i'm obviously in the minority, but i thought the guy acted like a petulent child throwing a temper tantrum...whether you agree with United's policy or not, the guy should have gotten up when the police arrived, then pursued reparation afterwards...i wouldn't be surprised if we eventually learn he had some sort of mental issue

there are plenty of videos these days of people resisting authority, sometimes with dire consequences...followed by demonstrations and riots


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi] #126943
04/11/2017 11:14 AM
04/11/2017 11:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
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You are right of course, the prudent thing to do is to give up the seat but the problem is really how it was handled after the passenger refused to give up his seat - A PR nightmare - dozens of passengers with cell phones and cameras rolling - the airline has only one crew member to transport remaining - I'm sure there will be, as you said, more to follow on this.


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi] #126944
04/11/2017 11:42 AM
04/11/2017 11:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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The passenger could have handled it better, but my feeling is that the airline SERIOUSLY screwed up, to let it get to that point. First, the entire situation was created by the airline's GREED in overbooking the flight. Second, the entire situation was created by the airline's screw up in not having the proper crew in place where they needed to be. Third, they never should have let anyone board the plane. Fourth, they needed to offer more money until they got volunteers. Fifth, the airports were FOUR HOURS apart by car. United could have rented a car (and a driver, if need be) to get their employees there in time. As it was, the flight eventually left THREE HOURS late, so if United had just hired a car for their employees, the other passengers would not have been subjected to this awful scene and the other passengers would have gotten what they should have gotten to begin with. And sixth, I really hope the CEO of United gets removed for his attitude toward the flying public, that he obviously doesn't give a rat's a$$ about. "Reaccomodated"??? Really?? United says that the man was not targeted because he is Asian, but apparently the story is going over like a concrete balloon in China, which apparently United does huge business in China. "The Friendly Skies"??? Not so much.


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126945
04/11/2017 11:46 AM
04/11/2017 11:46 AM
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Posts: 3,101
Kennys Offline
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I totally agree with you Carol.

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126946
04/11/2017 12:16 PM
04/11/2017 12:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 269
Sugar Land, Tx
I
IslandBoi Offline
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Sugar Land, Tx
this will be my last comment on the subject, since i'm not looking to argue with anyone...but it's interesting you bring up race....the ONLY way race would not have been brought up would have been if it was a white male....as long as the person was of ANY other race in the world or a female, race and gender discrimination would have been brought up by someone <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: IslandBoi] #126947
04/11/2017 12:31 PM
04/11/2017 12:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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I didn't bring up race on my own. The other passengers on the plane said that the individual claimed that he was targeted because of race. And apparently he is Vietnamese, and not Chinese.


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126948
04/11/2017 12:39 PM
04/11/2017 12:39 PM
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Posts: 1,192
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Bahston Offline
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Being denied boarding due to an oversold condition is one thing, and there are regs to cover how that should be handled, and what is owed in compensation.

Being allowed to board and then asked to deplane because the airline has suddenly discovered that it needs your seat to transport deadheading crew is something else altogether.

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126949
04/11/2017 01:58 PM
04/11/2017 01:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 269
Sugar Land, Tx
I
IslandBoi Offline
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doesn't have anything to do with what UA did, but interesting stuff nonetheless <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Doctor's History


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126950
04/11/2017 02:31 PM
04/11/2017 02:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,590
Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
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I am totally repulsed by this as well, and I'm a United "Million Miler"!

United was a great airline for most of the 40 yeats I accumulated miles, one flight at a time... The 10 am UA59 "Deli Flight" was my favorite as I flew from IAD to LAX to go to obscure desert test ranges, sometimes with two round trips per week.

When UA and Continental merged a few years ago the United management was fired and the New Jersey Continental executives took charge, and rapidly turned the Friendly Skies into a cash cow to be milked for all it's worth, customers be damned...

I weep for the old United where the customer was king, and not an afterthought.


Bill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126951
04/11/2017 02:50 PM
04/11/2017 02:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
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DOT guide for airline passengers...
==================
DOT


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bill_S] #126952
04/11/2017 02:52 PM
04/11/2017 02:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,849
Brookfield, CT.
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But Bill, isn't that the way of most airlines these days?

UA is not a convenient airline for us so I have no firsthand experience with them, but there are horror stories with almost all the carriers these days.

There was a time when we travelled almost exclusively on AA, though never with the kind of status you have since our travel is purely recreational, but they used to turn themselves inside out to make you happy and in turn, we gave them our loyalty. Not so much since the most recent changes.

JB, loved by so many when it first appeared on the scene, has never received kudos from us though I held out hope at first but our experiences, while not horror stories, have certainly left considerable room for huge improvements.

I have said before and will say again, they're all reasonably decent UNTIL YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM, and the problems do occur with almost all carriers sooner or later..

All that said, the UA situation really was terrible even admitting the effected passenger was not without blame here. But in the end, as so often is the case, it's not the crime (or situation in this case) but it's ALL about how they handle it. And this case, UA cut their own throats in the manner in which this has all played out so far. And I suspect it's going to get a lot worse for them before it gets better. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126953
04/11/2017 03:54 PM
04/11/2017 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,343
Jersey Shore
BobandJeana Offline
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Carol,
You nailed it on every point. CEO of United needs to resign.

BobandJeana

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: BobandJeana] #126954
04/11/2017 06:16 PM
04/11/2017 06:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,913
North Kingstown, Rhode Island
Bob_Dot Offline
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The police may want to think about how they handled this. The doctor's shady past is not a part of this story and I think lawyers are drooling over things like failing to read the guy his rights and tell him he was being arrested.

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: pat] #126955
04/11/2017 06:24 PM
04/11/2017 06:24 PM
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Posts: 2,590
Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
Bill_S Offline
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Hi Pat,

Thanks for your comment.

My thoughts are that way too many airlines are run by bean counters instead of aviators...

Bean counters only care about profits and losses. Aviators care about safely getting their aircraft, themselves, and their passengers from origin to destination safely, comfortably, and enjoyably.

United used to be run by Aviators. Now it is run by bean counters... And we all suffer.

For what it's worth (not much)... I hold an FAA commercial pilot license, ASMEL-I, which has been inactive for a long time since I chose a USAF career in EW and program management (less than perfect eyesight) followed by the defense electronics industry before retiring for good 4 years ago.

Bill


Last edited by Bill_S; 04/11/2017 06:33 PM.

Bill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot] #126956
04/11/2017 07:29 PM
04/11/2017 07:29 PM
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Kennys Offline
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His shady past does not deserve this kind of treatment.

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot] #126957
04/11/2017 08:56 PM
04/11/2017 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Well, he actually wasn't ever arrested, that wasn't what happened. If he had actually been arrested, the situation wouldn't have been so bizarre and awful.

However, as of now, United's stock has lost about 1 BILLION dollars in value.. The stock probably will rebound at least some, but I still predict that the CEO is in big trouble.


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bob_Dot] #126958
04/11/2017 09:57 PM
04/11/2017 09:57 PM
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Posts: 1,192
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Bahston Offline
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Lawyers are also drooling over the fact that the UA gate agents tried to invoke an oversold situation which didn't exist, didn't execute it properly, and were actually trying to accommodate deadheading crew.

The Chicago Department of Aviation (not the Chicago Police Department) may or may not have been misinformed about the nature of the passenger situation. They became the airline's stormtroopers (a word which I do not use lightly) - impossible to refuse, impossible to resist, and willing to employ brute force.

I don't see this ending well for a lot of people. At the end of the day, changes will be made. A few will profit, a few will hopefully be penalized in some manner, most won't, and there will be unintended consequences.

A few unintended consequences that I see - If overbooking diminishes then fares will rise accordingly. If rules involving deadheading crew changes then that may have an impact on where crew live - for example, I know a Flight Attendant who lives in Florida, but who works out of the Charlotte crew base - not uncommon.

The story, and the resulting impact, will continue to modify over the coming month(s).

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Bahston] #126959
04/12/2017 05:34 AM
04/12/2017 05:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,869
Peaceful Eastern North Carolin...
GaKaye Offline
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Quote
Bahston said:
If rules involving deadheading crew changes then that may have an impact on where crew live - for example, I know a Flight Attendant who lives in Florida, but who works out of the Charlotte crew base - not uncommon.



I agree with everything you say in your post. We also have a friend, a pilot for Jet Blue, who lives in Emerald Isle, NC and is based in Boston.


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126960
04/12/2017 08:15 AM
04/12/2017 08:15 AM
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Posts: 2,029
Connecticut
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When we were leaving SXM last week, on Delta, we were delayed at least 30 minutes because it was overbooked. (The did make up the time flying.)
The strange part of it is they paid 10 people $700 each to give up their seats, while there were at least that many empty in the comfort seats area when we left!!???
People are always saying to check to see if you can get upgraded, if there are empty seats, yet they held up the whole flight to get people to volunteer to leave. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: The_Lurker] #126961
04/12/2017 08:17 AM
04/12/2017 08:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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OK, now that's weird!!


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126962
04/12/2017 08:40 AM
04/12/2017 08:40 AM
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Posts: 66,541
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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The CEO of United was just interviewed this morning, and said he felt "shame" watching the video. Took him a while.. He also said that the passenger was totally NOT at fault. We'll see what happens from here.


Carol Hill
Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: The_Lurker] #126963
04/12/2017 09:11 AM
04/12/2017 09:11 AM
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Posts: 176
Edam, Saskatchewan - Canada
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It may have been a weight problem you experienced, not an over sale of passenger seats, or a combination of both. I was already boarded on a flight from SXM to DC when they announced that they were overweight and started trying to get passengers to take comp to get off the plane. They kept trying and no one budged. They next said they would offload "cargo". The "cargo"? You guessed it, luggage. One of my bags included, even though we were FC and supposedly priority. Told in DC that "hmm, that was not SOP". Yeah, if your bags are to be off first when you land, I guess they were the easiest to grab and offload in this situation!


LeAnn


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Re: I wouldn't fly United myself... [Re: Carol_Hill] #126964
04/12/2017 10:42 AM
04/12/2017 10:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,241
Ohio
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An interesting read below:

A Pilot Wife Perspective


J.D.
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